بخوانید و زار بزنید - پارت ۲

بخوانید و زار بزنید - پارت ۲
by HollyUSA
21-Oct-2009
 

Unfortunately the original piece seems to have been removed by the
original author. Since it seemed that many were not finished discussing
the issue, I decided to start a new thread so that we could continue.
If anyone would like to give a re-cap I would appreciate it. Keep it
fair and accurate please.


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HollyUSA

Anonymouse

by HollyUSA on

Thank you for your account of what took place in the last blog. Honestly I was so pissed at the time that typing it all out would have only served to aggrevate me more.

I agree with you that what MPD did was less than acceptable and to me at least, surprising and not in a good way! Since no one was being in anyway disrespectful to RW or those who made their lame attempts to absolve him of his responsibilty for making such an outrageous and offensive statement, the shutting down of the blog amounted to nothing more than an attempt to 'shut the women up'  who were defending their rights. Sad, especially when you think that mothers, sisters, wives and daughters are surely subject to this in their lives, daily .

Curiously however, the brave men of IC are so far absent from this blog. I wonder why.


Anonymouse

ID I'm talking in general terms and as a whole.

by Anonymouse on

I'm not trying to be a speaker for Iranian women, they don't need me, I'm just trying to point to the recent trends in Iran.  It is true that many Iranian men have fought side by side with their women counterpart.  But as a whole if we compare women's movement and what they've done and achieved so far, if Iranian men have done their share, they'd achieved something.  What have we achieved outside women's rights?

"Technically" men are the bread winners and supposed to lead by example. I believe Iranian men are now understanding that they too can do just as much as women do and if they do there will be better days.  Example, this green movement and voting protest.  They're standing their grounds.  People such as Mousavi and Karoubi are standing ground.  "Better" men than Mousavi and Karoubi can and should stand ground.  That's the whole point I'm trying to make.

Everything is sacred.


IRANdokht

Anonymouse

by IRANdokht on

I just wanted to thank you for speaking up for Iranian women.

We have many brave men and women in Iran. It's true that women have resisted the radical laws for 30 years and found ways around restrictions and pushed back. But I don't agree that Iranian men have done nothing. When I was in Iran and saw how my cousins' husbands supported their wives and daughters, I realized that our men are way more open minded and supportive than any other man in the middle east. In most ME countries there are a lot of honor killings that you don't find in Iran. Our men did not leave the women alone in their resistance. Unfortunately the ones who left the country and did not experience IRI first hand, still have the old mentality and little regard for women, not like the men who have lived in Iran or at least kept close contact.

Thanks 

IRANdokht


Anonymouse

Define Stockholm and leave out the syndrome.

by Anonymouse on

 

Everything is sacred.


Anonymous Observer

I have to agree with Samsam

by Anonymous Observer on

on the fact that some of the most ardent supporters of the IRI and status quo on this site appear to be women (or at least pretend to be women).  It's a very curious thing.  Can it be a collective case of Stockholm Syndrome? 


Anonymouse

Here's the thing. Listen up!

by Anonymouse on

For the sake of this discussion or what RW said, I think we should categorize Iranian men into 2 groups whether inside or outside Iran, doesn't matter. One group is the one that makes all these arcane Islamic stuff or approves them and their latest "masterpiece" was the legislation to allow men to marry a 2nd or 3rd or 4th wife without the 1st wife’s permission or even information. There is no hope for this group and you don’t even get a chance to discuss it with them.

The 2nd group is the group that not only does not see the real fight that Iranian women have fought from day 1 to present and continue to fight, with women like Simin Behbahani, Shadi Sadr, etc., but blames the current situation on them. This same group thinks that by saying they support women’s rights they’re expecting women to fight and rid Iran of the Islamic regime so they can have a good time and be chic. This is the reason behind RW’s comment and the uproar over it.

In my interactions during my recent visits to Iran it is now perfectly clear for many people that I talked to that Iranian women have not been quiet and the reason we’re not living under a Taliban style life is strictly due to Iranian women’s fight and resistance. Otherwise Iranian men have been khafeghoon gereftan and have shut the f*** up. Seriously compared to Iranian women’s fight in the past 30 years, WTF have Iranian men done that are noteworthy? So this is an open and shut case for those who want to open their eyes.

Therefore and as stated here due to the serious and egregious statement by RW I demanded an apology but he just made it worse by responding that he didn’t say "women are not entirely without blame" he meant "they didn’t do enough" and went on to say more and made it worse.

Here I’d also like to demand MPD that he apologizes for trying to sweep this under the rug! Here I’m using an exclamation point so it is really up to MPD to apologize or not! He made a comment that just like Jerusalem’s freedom goes through Karbala, Iranian’s freedom goes through women’s freedom. So let’s acknowledge Iranian’s women’s movement and the huge strides they’ve made in the last 30 years by simply apologizing for an outrageous statement!

Everything is sacred.


yolanda

......

by yolanda on

Thank you for the blog! I have read everyone's post. It is pretty heavy stuff and it makes me think!!!! I am just curious why this blog is not placed on the front page.....the original blog was on the front page of IC this morning, but not this one.....I wonder why....Is the topic too sensitive or too explosive?

Peace out! 

 


Anahid Hojjati

Thanks HollyUSA for continuing the discussion

by Anahid Hojjati on

Dear HollyUSA, I am glad you continued the discussion by starting this blog.


HollyUSA

Desi jan

by HollyUSA on

We all made the same / similar cases as you have. His last ditch response was that he was speaking from 'personal experience' (although his initial comment was a blanket and firm statement and left nothing to mis-interpretation). I guess all the women in his immediate and extended family were 'waiting for their man' and the poor soul has never read history or had the good fortune of learning from other people's experience.


Souri

dear Desi

by Souri on

sorry I can't make a resume of MPD's blog with my bad English.

I wish you could read the Shepherdess's comment! That was an excellent piece. An amazing example of a woman's struggle and success!

I hope she could come here and re-write the story of her mother, for us.


desi

Really, Iranian women

by desi on


Really, Iranian women haven't claimed their rights?  Iranian women are world renowned for claiming their rights in the wake of HUGE mammoth like adversity.  The examples are endless.  Any one of us women here can site 50 examples just from our mothers, aunts and grandmothers alone. Thankfully, the majority of Iranian men I know have stepped up to the plate and supported their Iranian sisters.  That, in my book is true patriotism and true Iranian-ness.  


Souri

for my part

by Souri on

I have no problem with men! Actually I love them.

But since RW said that it's all our fault because we don't fight enough for our rights, I think it's time for us to set the records straight.

If we have failed to do it in Iran (according to RW) but at least we can make it up here. 


Louie Louie

Souri

by Louie Louie on

I live with a "zan zalil" :o))

----------------------------------------

Now it's my turn to get shallow; I love clothes shopping, shoombool talas and hydrogen proxide.


HollyUSA

Well said Azadeh

by HollyUSA on

I don't think we're targeting the person, but the mentality. Any pain suffered by those who insist on living by and displaying the mentality is simply collateral damage ;)

And you are right, we SHALL overcome. Hopefully sooner than later.

Cheers.


Souri

And another one is this:

by Souri on

"P/S to my previous comment, lets see which one of these behavioral patterns we have observed in this one blog alone, shall we? According to the cited report:

We've identified a form of aggression unique to females, what we call relational aggression, hurting others through damaging or manipulating their relationships in aversive ways."

The funniest thing is that the author (a man) pretend to be a defender of the woman's right too ! looool


Azadeh Azad

In support of my Iranian sisters on this site

by Azadeh Azad on

I'd like to point out that the following two expressions - used as jokes or seriously - are sexist and need to be avoided in order to not offend women:

"Zan-Zalil", i.e., a married man who doesn't dominate his wife, washes the dishes in the household, doesn't cheat on his wife, is respectful of his wife, etc, etc.

"Khaleh-Zanak", i.e., someone who pays attention to insignificant details, talks behind people's back, creates disharmony by slandering, etc, etc.

And an example of a sexist comment made without awareness of its offensive and sexist meaning is the following:

"Uff ... I love cheeses !!! ummm, women, red wine and cheese are my 3 things which i love in this world. Hehehe"

One could replace "cheese" with "chelo-Kebab" or any edible items here. However, women are not edible objects. Period!

It does not matter *who* are those who use these expressions and comments. What matters is to become aware of the sexist nature of these expressions and comments, and *not use them any longer.*

We shall overcome, someday

Azadeh


HollyUSA

Desi

by HollyUSA on

Let's say 'opened mouth - inserted foot and continued to shove it in with all his might'!

The blog was about the lack of women's rights in Iran. RW said ' It is their own fault because they have not done anything to claim their rights as in their heart they have always waited for their man' Mind you this isn't word for word, but it is an accurate recreation.


Souri

Samsam jan

by Souri on

I wouldn't expect from you to play the same game that your fellow matchos,  dude :-)

You bring  one sentence frome  a content and want to prove something up on that only one phrase?

What was the subject of that blog? What was the debate on?

I was telling you and RW and a few others : not to use so much curse words and fool language in your posts! Isn't it?

As I always said, sometime I see no other choice than speaking with some people, in thier own language !

BTW, this was a very good example of what I just said:

How many times you heard me saying those words?

How many times you heard any other girl here, saying those words?

How many times you heard the men of the site saying those words and even worse to the girls?


HollyUSA

LOL Louie

by HollyUSA on

Funny. And I agree with both Souri and yourself - I wasn't referring to 'education' as in an academic degree, but the experience and knowldege the process of becoming educated is intended to accompany. I guess some just go to class like sheep to the akhor and miss the rest of it!


desi

 I've noticed there has

by desi on

 I've noticed there has been so many blogs written from misogynists about how Iranian women are fake, gold diggers, yada yada yada and now we get to turn the tables.  

I didn't really get to read MPDs blog.  Can't find it.  What I gather however is that RW put his foot in his mouth?  Or did he?  If anyone is willing to give a brief recap... 


HollyUSA

SamSam

by HollyUSA on

You lost me between all the hate/anger that emanates from your words dude. Sorry. I try to avoid that like the plague.


Souri

Louie Loui

by Souri on

Sorry, are you a man or a woman?

 


SamSamIIII

Souri jaan

by SamSamIIII on

 You asked ;

How many girls you have seen in this site who try to intimidate the men by the fool language...

::)) I couldn,t resist this one but how about this dear from last yr;

"""F** you samsam, F** your heritage, F** your Farsi & Cyrus, F** your Shahnameh...""

You know it,s all water under the bridge but worth noting neverthe less .

Cheers :)!!!

 

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia


Louie Louie

Souri is right

by Louie Louie on

Educattion has nothing to do with it. I have seen those hotshot CEOs gone to Iran bringing their aftab mahtab nadideh brides 20 years their junior with the hope of smelling that ghormeh sabzi their mommy jan used to make, and hopefully she will be washing clothes by the river while she is carrying their little shoombool tala on her back.

Don't expect much from a guy who says he loves wine, cheeses and women equally!

 


Souri

okay,

by Souri on

Apart from the ommati male and female :-)

Any other opinion?

Where are all the gilrs in this site? 

Don't feel intimidated baba, speak your mind. Don't worry you wont loose your male friends. This is a general debate. Fear not!

How many girls you have seen in this site who try to intimidate the men by the fool language? Zero?

How many  men, now?


SamSamIIII

Arabo Ommatie class of so called "Iranian" women

by SamSamIIII on

 

Are the ones who have screwed it for other patriotic proud true Iranian female class by worshipping Ommatie icons & culture for generations since Qadesiyeh/Arab conquest. Indeed these Khaleh sooskeh seeds of Qadesiyeh suffered from the same stockholm syndrom that their modern pro IRI sisters suffer from . This Iranian female class is the most oppressed & Ommatized gender in the world yet at the end of the day it still seeks solutions & remedies for her ills from the same shaikhak source that seeks to enslave her in the person of Imams, shaikhak poets  objectifying women , Pan-Ommah art & Ommatie philosophy. So in essence Ommatie men are not the only culprits but also their all willing side kicks in crime aka Arabo Ommatie khaleh sooskeh who are the true enemies of Iran who brew & raise many generations of traitors for the cause of Ommah as we witness freely on this site too.

 

Has anyone stopped to ask themselves the reason behind the sudden capitulation of Iranian women's contribution to the world fountain of art & science since post-Arab conquest Iran?. We had Queen Buran, Pourandokht, Artemis, Nakisia & many world renowned Female icons prior to that ...& as the The world gave us  the likes of ; 

Indira Gandii, Marie Curie,Pocohantaus, Rosa Park,Queen Victoria, Cleopatra, Amilia Earhart, Joan of Arc,catherin the great,Sapho, Isabelle I, ...etc

What stopped Iranian women from producing one universal icon to atleast match their once great heritage. We all know the answer but guess voluntary amnesia is kickin in. After all it,s better to read shaikhak poetry and worship the beast than face the mirror.

We all have little daughters & Do not want them to grow up to be a Serf with no principls . They will grow up to be proud patriots , women of industry & art and above all ,proud female specie.

 

Cheers !!!

 

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia


Souri

Education?

by Souri on

Honey jan, education does not make the man, intelligent.

Instruction does!

Our male Iranian here abroad, are mostly educated but they have brought their cultural bagage with themselves which they can't live without! You know why?

Because it gives them the feeling of superiority. An ego which has been shaken when they first came to the west and have confronted the occidental woman !

As you may have noticed, most of these educated Iranian men, do not treat the western women in the same way that they do treat their own hamvatan women.
Even their expectation from western women is different than what they expect from the Iranian women. Am I right? or, am I right?


HollyUSA

Souri

by HollyUSA on

I've rarely seen it amongst American or European males, regardless of it being friends or colleagues. I agree that it can be cultural but cultural influences of this type don't serve as an excuse to the 'educated' male!


Souri

Don't you think

by Souri on

That attitude is more common among our fellow Iranian?

From my own experience with the women shelters, I'd say I believe it has a lot with the Oriental and specially Muslim culture.

What do you think?


HollyUSA

Irandokht

by HollyUSA on

Agreed and thank you. I am fully aware that their shortcomings on their views on women is not something we can correct by bringing it to their attention. But I'll be damned if I just let it go when they deem appropriate to bring it into a discussion of women's plight over the centuries. Our first and foremost responsibilty as women should be to make sure we don't raise such sons.

And I'm glad I could help with getting this off your chest :)