"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth"

HOLLY KHANOOM

some 20 years ago when I was living in Portland,Oregon I met an old colored retired teacher over an starbuck break and as he found out about my background the next time on the same spot he brought me an old clip of the Oregonian paper about an article he wrote about the roots of Blacks,queen esther,jesus and persian empire.....blah,blah,blah

And yes he proved Queen Esther as an Ethiopian slave,jesus as black and all PERSIAN  also of the same color.

So here you go.                      Maziar

Kaveh jan, I clear MollyMaidUSA's position for you.

 
She agrees with anything anti Jewish, anti Israel, anti Zionist, anti AIPAC.  This video was not anti Jewish, so she cannot take a side. 

God, how I wish her Jewish boyfriend back in 1980s hadn't dumped her cold. 

.

.

Kaveh

Ok there seems to be some confusion. I'll do my best to clarify:

1) I did not agree with Mehrban's intial post which you have quoted. I agreed with her later post in which she refered to our heritage on Ancient Iran and the reality of the mix of our culture (pre and post Islam). If you read below you'll see that I disagreed that we should stay away from such discussions as this in 'these times of trouble'.

2) What Ghiassabadi is talking about is based on his professional opinion and I imagine some research he has done or otherwise studied. I can choose to 'believe' it or not and that's all it would boil down to - My personal choice to accept what he says as fact or not. Whether I do or not, will not credit nor discredit his point of view in any way. What others on this blog have offered to refute what this guy is saying is merely the professional opinion of other experts or the writings of particular hostorians which supports their view on the sunbject - no more or less factual in nature than what Ghiasabadi is saying or the writings of historians Ghiasabaadi's camp can provide to support their side.  (please refer to my general opionion of history in my last response).

3) The reason I found it interesting was because believe it or not I had never come across a school of thought that disputed the very existence of the Aryan Iranian to this extent. Granted, I had not looked for any litrature on either side of the issue primarily because I find it irrelevant to our present day issues. I do nonetheless find it disturbing that some are so pre-occupied with convincing themselves and the world that the 'Aryan' is somehow better than the true, live, present day, post Islam Iranian. 

4) While I'm not happy about it, I don't lose sleep over it. Thankfully the homosapian has evolved (well, most have) and we no longer live in a world where such racial purification notions are tolerated.

I hope that helps clarify my postion.

hollyusa

Thank you or your reply. I am still not clear whether you agree with anything this 'expert' has to say or not. Nor is it clear from your answer whether you can or want to take any position on the subject, (as a lay person ofcourse). As I am not an expert on the subject, nor do I know why you have shared what you have found 'interesting' but possibly don't agree with, I can only defer to Samsam & Arthemis amongst others. they have given a not too lengthy (considering that it is a 10 minute video) refutation, citing reference and 'expert' sources. You also seem to agree to what Mehrban has so eloquently said in response to Fouzul Bashi. Samsam also agrees with what Mehrban has written. So as a lay person I ask my self what part of what is said in the video, you found intresting which prompted you to share it with us at this particular "time of trouble, while an occupying regime insists on distorting and denigrating the best of our heritage and traditions, it is most damaging to dissiminate self hate propaganda.    FYI, I also consider myself an IRANIAN"*  

KP

*with permission of Mehrban

Kaveh khan

I don't know! I am not a historian, archaologist, linguist .... Like everyone else I can only read and listen to what these 'experts' have to say and see if I can (or want to even) take any one position on the subject. 

Generally speaking however I am hesitant to accept any single account of history as absolute.  All you have to do is read ten accounts of something that just happened anywhere in the world yesterday and end up with a handful of different versions of the same story depending on who reported it and what each individual took away with them. Digeh 2000 va 3000 saal pish ro keh khoda beh kheyr koneh!

hollyusa

we know you found the video, real intresting enough to write a blog about what he says, but can you tell us do you agree with the guy in the video?

KP

FFF

As you know, I rarely go beyond one exchange or two with you. That's because at some point it becomes desirable for me to pretend you don't exist.

Now run along and rinse your dastmal yazdi. An Ob is waiting for his turn.

Mehrban

I don't disagree with anything you said. Like yourself I consider both
Norooz and Ghameh Zani as part of my Iranian culture, and I too, much
prefer Norooz. I also appreciate the magnificance of everything that is
ancient Persia. What I am not comfortable with is the self proclaimed
Aryan clan of today's approach toward anyone who does not follow their
self servingly selective view as to what Iranian heritage is and who
Iranians are. Unlike you and I who are happy to allow anyone who wants
to engage in Ghameh Zani, to them these people are 'Ommati' and and somehow betraying Iran, Azeris who don't bow to their ways are Pan-Turks, Ahvazi and Abadanis are arabophiles and Arabs of course are not human and in fact the word 'Arab' is freely used as an insult. All you have to do is read their posts right here on this site.

I just find this mentality nothing short of disgusting and don't view them as any less dangarous than the present rulers of Iran. 30 years of Mullahs screwing over Iranians in the name of islam and now we have another bunch who want to screw the country over for God knows how long in the name of Arya.

SamSam jan

Now I don't regret writing this blog because now if I did I would have deleted it now! Are you happy now now? It's OK, I'm just teasin'.  U're a kid (or at least you behave like one) and it wouldn't be nice to pick on you. Go ahead, get it off your chest and you are more than welcome to do it on this blog ;)

Mehrban

Sure. I don't disagree!  

HollyUSA, Why

are you doubing true Iranian's identity and worse listnening to a Hezbolahi such as Aaspiraan Ghiasaabaadi (Iran hater) to bash and mock True Iranian/Persian identity???

Thank GOD, with modern technology, there are far more reliable foreign and domestic sources to seek reliable and proper information! 

For example: 

By:
M. Sâdeq Nazmi-Afshâr

I
am Darius, the great king, the king of kings
The king of many countries and many peoples
The king of this expansive land,

The
son of Wishtaspa of  Achaemenid,

Persian,
the son of a Persian, 

'Aryan',
from the Aryan Race 

"From
the Darius the Great's Inscription in Naqshe-e-Rostam"

The
above scripture is one of most valid written evidences of the history of
the Aryan race, and as can be seen, Darius
the Great, the third king of Kings of the Achaemenid
dynasty, in the
5th century BC, declares himself a Persian and form the Aryan race.
Herodotus writes at the same times: "In
ancient times, the Greeks called Iranians "Kaffe", but they were
renowned as Aryans among themselves and their neighbors". In another
part of his book, Herodotus writes that the Medians were known as Aryans
during a certain period. So in two of the oldest written human documents,
the race of the Iranians have been mentioned as Aryan......

For more proper info please refer to :

//www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Anthropology/aryans_...

It is an UNFORTUNATE fact that our nation's blood has been mixed by so many different Iran haters due to so many invasions and for so long, but that does NOT change Iran's true identity!

This Glorious Identity, Culture and State of Thoughts has managed to survive for melliniums due to its superior nature in every aspect of life and most importantly has DESOLVED all other sub-cultures, identities , religions and beliefs inside of its GREATNESS and to this day sister.. And so long as us Persians/Iranians understand this fact once and for all, we will not wake up from our own self imposed nightmares and  can not seek our true origins and identities and become Free (Aryans) again... 

Awarness, Consciousness, Love and Peace

:)

Now , don't you just regret writing this blog by now !. Come on now, next time when you are fuzzy in choosing between writing a blog or cooking Abgoosht  , just follow my advice and choose the latter since by cooking you only ruin other,s appetite but by writing a blog you,ll ruin your whole week ;:)) . AO & Mehrban jaan, great reasoning both of you.

Cheers!!!

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Fozool Bashi

Of course it is hard to argue with your last paragraph in principle.  But what a people produces is also very telling of the culture they espouse.  It is very hard to see what has been really produced during IR rule in the last 30 years. Even the market for Persian carpets have gone to pitts.

Persians were pretty cool (I think), were they perfect? Probably not but more than 2000 years ago they produced amazing works of art among other things.  This is something we can all find strength in not to be afraid of.    

Another example of our best heritage and traditions is (again for me), I much rather celebrate Norooz than do Ghameh Zani.  I would not stop anyone if they wanted to do it but I would tell them hay if you do this every year, you will probably develop neurological problems to say nothing of risk of infection.   Fozoul bashi jaan forgive me for being absurd here but the reality of our situation calls for nothing less.   Yes, both Norooz celebrations and Ghameh Zani are our heritage but I would say Norooz is among the best of our traditions and Ghameh Zani is not for reasons I stated.

Iran belongs to all of us.  We need to stop being scared of one another because ultimately, like it or not, we are all in the same boat.   

Faramarz

I think that you are correct.  I think some of it has also to do with the inevitable brainwashing that some of these folks have been (or are) subjected to on daily basis while they lived in IRI ruled in Iran and / or by subjecting themselves to their propaganda.  I have friends from all over the world, Arab (pretty much every Arab nation you can think of), Europe (many countries), Israel, Iran, Turkey, American, China, Japan, Korea, Africa (many countries), South America (many countries there) and respect every single one of them as an equal and a human being.  I just cannot imagine hating a whole group of people just because of their religion or the country that they come from.  So, I just cannot understand this hateful mentality.   

Dear A.O.

Great post/response.  You hit the nail over the head multiple times.

As I'm sure you know, the Iranian population of Beverly Hills is predominantly Jewish.  Some Iranian Muslims who live or work (or both) in Beverly Hills, West LA, Brentwood, BelAir and Santa Monica on the west and Hollywood on the east do not like the Jews.

I have numerous Muslim as well as Jewish friends.  It basically comes down to the fact that now a days, in the U.S. and specially in B.H. Jews don't take crap from Muslims.  Now, Iranians Muslims (again, obviously some, not all) who prior to coming to the U.S. have always been in the majority and in power, cannot stand the fact that B.H. is the Jews domain. And they can't really do anything about it other than writing blogs in cyber space.

Thank God observers such as yourself and I don't let these messages go unnoticed.

Come on now, HollyUSA

Anon Obs: I guess you either only read parts of that blog or just took away what served your pre-determined judgement. "

How could I have possibly "only read parts of that blog"?  Your "blog" was just one sentence, and it said something to the effect of "if you are an Iranian Jew who will you support if Israel attacks Iran".  There was no way for me, or anyone else, to have "partially" read the blog even if we wanted to!  And that is besides the fact that you changed the language of the blog and made it more "general" when your outright racism was pointed out to you. Actually, you don't even try that hard to hide your blind hatred for Jews.  Just look at your comments on this blog, where you call Faramarz Fateh "Sephardic" as if that's some sort of an insult.  

The bottom line is that you can try to write paragraph after paragraph trying to "mast mali" your beliefs and to project it unto others (as you're doing here), but we weren't born yesterday.  We can see hidden intentions masked behind eloquent language.   

Mehrban jan

"Take a look at a photo or plans of Persepolis.  It was built over 2000 years ago in Iran, it is magnificent in its overall plan and details.  Maybe just maybe Maydan Chahr Bagh in Esphahan and its adjoining buildings come close to being a rival to it in our entire history but that is it."  

Don't underestimate what's been made in between Persepolis and Char-Bagh, and after.  The unfortunate fact is that Iran has been repeatedly attacked and many of its cities raised to the ground and heritage destroyed.  It is said that what remains of Iran architectural heritage - not to mention literary and scientific heritage in book burnings - is what was mainly on the periphery and out of the way of invading armies who destroyed entire cities. 

 I believe what we are as people and towards each other is the most important heritage we are left with and which we would pass on - both good and bad ..

Dearest Holly

 
First of all, you left out an F.  You normally refer to me as FFF.  What gives?  Trying to conserve keyboard strokes?!   LOL 

 
Be courageous for once.  If you worry about the air, put on a mask and an oxygen tank.  I cover the costs for you.  Get off the keyboard and see some reality for a change, in person.  The universe you have created for yourself is just too nasty.  You won't survive it without a whole lot of Xanax, Zoloft and maybe even Lithium. 

 
I am not too worried about any Aryan clan.  My Jewish brothers who are by the way superior to you ain't going to let that happen again. 

I am neither proud nor ashamed of being from a Muslim heritage. If you want to believe that I am Jew or actually belong to any religion, more power to you.  Just keep hating the Jews.  Its done wonders for your type in Iran.

I would respect these

bunch if they just come out openly and say that they are seperatrist and done with it! (Just like when gays comming out of the clauset, get it over  already.)

What is irritatiing about these folks  is their level insults,ignorance, racism, hatefullness,  propaganda and distortion of history. If they really wanted to discuss this issue, they could have invited a panel of known archilogists and dig in to this issue in detail.At the age of cheap communcation how hard can this be?  Instead they find this choos o fes guy who allegedly travels to center of Iran and learns stories about ports and occeans and make up things in the process.....

Another interesting thing is the map they are keep showing. Not sure how present map of Iran is even relevent to this subject, in any case: it shows largest speaker in Iran are Azari speakers numbering 25 million, and yet persian speaker as 22 Milion!

Holly jaan

Now that we are friends!  

Take a look at a photo or plans of Persepolis.  It was built over 2000 years ago in Iran, it is magnificent in its overall plan and details.  Maybe just maybe Maydan Chahr Bagh in Esphahan and its adjoining buildings come close to being a rival to it in our entire history but that is it.  A while back, I was at the Sacler gallery in WDC and the ancient Iranian artifacts were displayed, dated over 500 BC, the precision and craftsmanship in metalwork was breathtaking I really could not believe what was in front of my eyes.  This is part of what I mean by our best heritage and traditions. Iranians (all Iranians) should not be denied their heritage or be made scared of it.        

Racism vs reality

Mehrban, I have no clue what you are saying. I didn't accuse YOU of anything. Simply stated my thoughts. I see you mean well but I disagree with your opinion. That's all.

Anon Obs: I guess you either only read parts of that blog or just took away what served your pre-determined judgement. The fact that I know a great number of Iranians who openly support Israel against Iran regardless of what the issue at hand may be (ie. they don't really care which side is right in a specific circumstance) does not make me a racist. It does make them a liability to Iran in my view.  And that would hold no matter what creed they are and to which threatening nation they lend their support and allegience to against Iran. They could be Iranian Buddhists supporting China and Russia for all I care! But in my community they happen to be jews supporting Israel. Thus my question which I assure you many around me wonder about too, but are afraid to ask because they would no doubt be labelled as racist.

I would be a racist if I said Moslem Iranians are better than Iranian Jews like some say Fars Iranians are 'better' than all the rest, or Persians are superior to Arabs. But all I am saying loyal Iranians are better for Iran than disloyal ones and national unity will serve Iran  better than ethnic dividsion. You are free to twist and call that what you like. But it doesn't change the facts.

Nonsense video

I will just comment once here since when a person talks with facts and sources, some will agree and some will not. 

The video has been made by pan-Turk with cut & pieces from an interview.  Usually these people themselves are racist and try to hide themselves by accusing their opponents and other ethnic groups to be racist. 

From an academic point of view, there are some nonsense here but in the end the person is forced to affirm an Aryan culture and language (and hence in reality ethnicity and what we call Nejad in Persian which is not necessarily race but ethnicity).

Iran itself means land of Aryans.

This sort of discussions took place on Iranian.com a while back and here are two good articles:

//iranian.com/Opinion/2005/April/Identity/index.html

//bonnila.blogspot.com/2006/08/iranshahr-demystifying-aryans-ali.html

1)

Aryan see www.wikipedia.com

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

//www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/37468/Aryan

//www.azargoshnasp.net/history/Aryan/aryanmain.htm

//dictionary.reference.com/browse/aryan

"It is one of the ironies of history that Aryan, a word nowadays referring to the blond-haired, blue-eyed physical ideal of Nazi Germany, originally referred to a people who looked vastly different. Its history starts with the ancient Indo-Iranians, Indo-European peoples who inhabited parts of what are now Iran, Afghanistan, and India. Their tribal self-designation was a word reconstructed as *arya- or *ārya-. The first of these is the form found in Iranian, as ultimately in the name of Iran itself (from Middle Persian Ērān (šahr), "(Land) of the Iranians," from the genitive plural of Ēr, "Iranian"). "

So usually the new breed of anti-Iranian racists try to convolute the two meanings.  That is the original meaning Aryan=Iranian language/ethnicity with the abuse of hitler in order to simply cause further hatred.

A good article on Aryans appeared in Iranian.com a while back:

2)

See 5:04!  What does this have to do with interview.

Note one of the maps tries to double the number of Turks in Iran! 

Here is a breakdown of Iranian demographics:

79% Iranian speakers (Aryan speakers=Lurs, Kurds,Baluchis, Gilaks, Khorasanis, Esfahanis, Yazids, Hamadanis..Persian speakers in general, ).  These people would be considered Iranian in terms of ethnicity and the only groups that has the pre-Islamic Mede, Mittani, Old Persian, Parthian and Achaemenid heritages.

18% Turkic speakers (Azeris+Qashqais+Turkmens).  These are Iranians based on citizenship and possibly ancestry (in terms of Azeris) but not linguistically.  The Turkic languages started to spread in Iran from the Seljuq times and parts of former Aryan/Iranian speaking regions like Azerbaijan, Arran, Sogdiana, Chorasmia, Merv and etc. became Turcophone.  The maker of the video is probably from this group and thus tries to find any source to weaken ethnic Iranian speakers with their pre-Islamic heritage.

2-3% Arabs .

1% other (Armenians, Georgians..)  Armenians have also been victims of the pan-Turkist racists that also made such videos.

Arabic opened its way after Islam.

Reference:

//lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/profiles/Iran.pdf

Note the site that is referenced by the anti-Iranian videomaker www.ethnologue.com lists only 11.2 million Azeris.  However in his map at 5:04 he claims 23.5 million!

3)

Note the propagandist tries to publicize a racist book against Persians and Iranians (Indo-Iranian speakers) in general.

This article responsds to it:

//www.azargoshnasp.net/recent_history/atoor/responseasgharzadeh/asghrazadehresponse.htm

//www.azargoshnasp.net/recent_history/atoor/responseasgharzadeh/asghrazadehresponse.pdf

Funny thing is that the same racist pan-Turk wrote letters to the ethnologue site to increase the number of Turks.

//www.azargoshnasp.net/Pasokhbehanirani/SomeStatisticsOnIranAndPanTurkistManipulation.htm

In general see here:

//www.azargoshnasp.net/Pasokhbehanirani/main.htm 

Proud Iranian, Iranian-American, Aryan, Persian and Mazandarani. 

Yes we all know all citizens of Iran should be equal, but there is a new breed of anti-Iranian racists who are attacking the native Iranian speakers heritage under the guise of being anti-racist.  These sort of people should condemn their brothers for the Armenian Genocide, Assyrian Genocide, Kurdish Genocide and Greek Genocide that is going on in Turkey before acting moral and preaching to Iranians.

Thanks

This is one person's opinion

which is at odds with many other respectable researchers. 

But HollyUSA, as much as you hold yourself out to be a champion against racism, aren't you the same person who wrote the racist blog questioning the loyalty of Iranian Jews simply because of their religion?  How is that not bigotry and racism?  

Holly

please do not present your own racial issues as mine.  Of course beauty of Iran is in its diversity.  I don't have a problem there. 

Mehrban

Sorry I didn't respond to you before, too much 'noise'.

I don't see it as self hatred to disagree with the Aryan flag waving clan. On the contrary, I see acceptance of who we really are as Iranians, 'not the best of our heritage' and all, as a good thing since there can only be self hatred without self acceptance.

This 'time of trouble' is actually a very good time to remind ourselves that there are many more 'chaleh' and 'chaahs' we can fall into if we are not careful. We have many races and ethnicities in Iran, all are Iranians and we need to steer away from anything and anyone that is not ALL encompassing in order to ensure the entire nation's rights.

FF

Thanks buddy but it is bad enough knowing you breathe the same air I do, I REALLY have no desitre to meet you. I give what I can to charity without having to torture myself or losing a bet, thanks. 

And nice try BTW but NOBODY buys it and it's too late for you to change that.

p.s. you will be the first kind the Aryan clan will go after so careful how u pick ur friends lol

'Leauge' SamSam??

is that the new word for Clan?? As in Racist Clans?? I think not Sir. And you are right, nothing wrong with cooking. Glad you at least appreciate your Mom's hard work that fed your belly. Too bad the mind can't benefit equally from food as the body can.

No matter how much you fight it 

ایران مساوی پارس نیست. ایران مجموعه ملت ها و قومیتهاست. 

:) you are way outta your "2+2=4 league"

 Your rozeh khooni aside ,As I pointed out earlier, you are better off  sticking to things you know about since You may be confused by what you think is really obvious but what you think is really obvious obviously isn't obvious :) thx largely to your limitless ignorance. 

& you need time, actualy , a looong time to learn what you dont really know . since after all, nothing that is worth knowing can be taught & pls dont make it into a woman,s issue because Its only your issue and you are way outta your "2+2=4 league" madmoaselle ;) .

btw* dont take offence, Nothing is wrong with cooking since I,m a man & love cooking too...

Cheers!!!

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Holly says I am a Jew! LOL

To tell you the truth, Jews and Muslims are pretty much from the same stock.  Consult some history books.  So, if you want to think and say I am "Sephardic", more power to you.

But, if you are in fact someone who lives in LA, I invite you to visit me and see pictures of my grand father.  If after seeing him and the rest of the clan you do not change your mind, I bet you, here and now, in writing that I will donate $1,000 to the charity of your choice.

If you are a woman of your word, you could also donate $1,000 to the charity of my choice if you accept that you are wrong.