Academic freedom transcends nationality

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iranian_student_NL
by iranian_student_NL
24-Jan-2008
 

Academic freedom transcends nationality

Sign the petition at //www.iraansestudenten.nl/en/:

"Ministers Plasterk (Education), and Verhagen (Foreign Affairs) have asked the Dutch Universities to exercise “vigilance”, and “great reservation” in admitting Iranian students. As a result, the University of Twente announced that it would no longer admit Iranians (students and staff members), and the Eindhoven University of Technology tends to consult the General Intelligence and Security Service for an admission clearance, a permission which the Service, in principle, cannot issue.

There are cases known in which the Eindhoven University has denied admission of PhD students, merely because of their nationality. Fortunately, not all universities participate in this madness; The Delft University of Technology and the University of Groningen do not exclude Iranians on a structural basis. This decision stems from resolution 1737 of the UN Security Council, in which the member states are instructed to be cautious with respect to the provision of proliferation sensitive information to Iran. That is, information which could lead to the construction and distribution of nuclear weapons. Although nuclear technology is taught at Dutch universities, the elementary knowledge that an Iranian student can acquire during his or her study is of no value for the Iranian nuclear program. This knowledge, in fact, consists of publicly accessible information, which can be found in the average textbooks and on the internet. The fundamental issue here should be knowledge and information pertaining to the destructive aspects of nuclear technology. We find it well-advised to protect this sensitive information adequately in the Netherlands, instead of insinuating Iranians. After all, potential hazards that can originate from such type of information are not constrained to one nationality.

We find the decision by the Dutch government stigmatizing and discriminating for the Iranian people. In a constitutional state, one remains innocent until proven guilty; exclusion of an entire nation is in sharp contrast to this principle. Furthermore, we are concerned about the negative consequences of this decision for the approximately 28.000 Iranian Dutch citizens, many of whom study, conduct research, and work at the universities and other academic institutes. We call upon the Dutch government, particularly Minister Plasterk, to reconsider this decision, so that categorical exclusion of Iranian students and academics will no longer be applied, and that academic freedom will remain preserved."

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"That's a pre-emptive

by R (not verified) on

"That's a pre-emptive nuclear first strike scenario, according to US nuclear doctrine."

Craig, United States is being played big time, against her interests, and most Americans don't even know it (due to fear tactics propoganda). Based on IAEA inspectors, NIE, and Iran's government, they don't have a nuclear weapons program. As for your comment above, is that why United States attacked the Soviet Union, China, Pakistan, and later North Korea? Do you think Iran would attack United States or Israel even if they had nuclear weapons? Or do you just wish for another excuse to start another war and to attack and ruin another country? (not to mention millions of lives ruined and another hundreds of thousands of people getting killed in the process).


programmer craig

R once more (sorry)

by programmer craig on

Speaking of ICBMs... Iran currently can't make an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile. What do you think would happen if Iran suddenly started producing ICBMs, and nuclear warheads to go with them, at the same time? That's a pre-emptive nuclear first strike scenario, according to US nuclear doctrine.


programmer craig

R again :)

by programmer craig on

R, of course you, yourself, don't count when it comes to a bet about the predictability of what you were writing. You obviously already knew what you were going to write, since you wrote it :)

Craig, granted, but based on your opinion and reasoning then all
countries should close their borders to citizens of other countries.

Well, sometimes they do. We didn't have a whole lot of students from the other side of the Iron Curtain in US Universities during the Cold War. And I doubt they had ANY American students enrolled in their Universities, at all.


Afterall the possibility of all countries trying to obtain information
and also technology from others, is very real. Do you think those who
are even considered friendly are not trying to commit such acts against
their friends?

Of course they are. The US lost a lot of computer and electronics technology to the rest of the world during the 1990s. When it comes to sensitive tech (I'd actually argue that computer and electronics tech is "sensitive" these days) the US lost a lot of Aerospace technology to the Chinese during the 1990s as well. They advanced their missile programs by an estimated 30 years, as a result of that. Previously, their ICBMs were the equivalent of ones the US was building during the 1950s. And then, they were suddenly in the 1980s. In the space of one year. This isn't a matter to be treated lightly.

There is a difference between losing tech to a nation you know very well means to do you harm, and losing tech to a nation that may never use it against you in any way, though.


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"But, that would also

by R (not verified) on

"But, that would also require a lot more effort and expense (not to mention risk) on their part."

Craig, granted, but based on your opinion and reasoning then all countries should close their borders to citizens of other countries. Afterall the possibility of all countries trying to obtain information and also technology from others, is very real. Do you think those who are even considered friendly are not trying to commit such acts against their friends? in my opinion your reasoning isn't realistic and convincing.


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Are you backing off from

by R (not verified) on

Are you backing off from your initial comment so you won't pay that 1 dollar to the charity of your choice? It's OK with me, but it sounded like you were addressing me. :)


programmer craig

R again

by programmer craig on

I wasn't including you when I said "everyone here", R :)

But to decide to discriminate wholesale against all Iranians under that flimsy justificiation, is another.

Flimsy justification? It's called "espionage" when agents of a hostile power act as agents for that hostile power and obtain sensitive imformation for it, R. Would you prefere that the Dutch just let anyone from Iran come to their country and snake everything they want, and then arrest them and put them on trial for spying? Because, they could do that too. I suppose in many ways that would be more fair, because teh majority of Iranian students don't act as agents for the IRI. But, that would also require a lot more effort and expense (not to mention risk) on their part.

 

 


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a matter of principle

by Anonymous Contributor (not verified) on

I think it's simply a matter of principle for any Iranian to support his or her compatriots in this kind of situation. I don't see, therefore, what all this discussion is about.


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Programmer Craig, you lost a

by R (not verified) on

Programmer Craig, you lost a dollar (I don't want it, please give it to the charity of your choice). You made two mistakes. 1. I didn't intend to write anything more. 2. My comment wasn't "against the U.S.", that's an outlandish mischaracterization, go read my comment again (actually, you lost 2 dollars). (Craig: "I'll bet a dollar everyone here knew exactly what you were going to say after that. You did the boilerplate western-leftist rant against the US."). I agree with you on your comment that I should have written about the hypocrisy of that decision by the Dutch. Security and protecting technology and their interests is one thing, I would think all countries have in place measures to protect sensitive information and technology. But to decide to discriminate wholesale against all Iranians under that flimsy justificiation, is another. Did they decide to ban the Saudis and Yemenis too (remember them, "our friends"?), or was this honor bestowed upon Iranian citizenry only? (you can guess the answer). p.s. that comment by that person about "respecting the most basic international rules" was quite a statement, most people s%^&t s%^&t, and some are of the opinion they s#$t gold and others, s@#$t.


programmer craig

R...

by programmer craig on

Here's just one recent example

I'll bet a dollar everyone here knew exactly what you were going to say after that. You did the boilerplate western-leftist rant against the US. You could have at least attempted to put an Iranian spin on it, eh? You could have tried to include the Netherlands in it as well, if you wanted to get creative.

 


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Spins in trying to justify Iranians to be discriminated against

by R (not verified) on

"Respecting the most basic international rules" ? lol! "Be Real", everyone else respects them of course, and Iranians should be discriminated against? you're so "international". Here's just one recent example of breaking the "most basic international rules", from the thousands of examples (courtesy of the neo-cons, that's what they're called nowadays), attacking and ruining of Iraq, ruining the lives of millions of Iraqis, and the death of hundreds of thousands due to that invasion, and all of this while respecting "the most basic international rules". I know you don't want to talk about that other broken long list of international humanity and civility, they're not good for your hyumanetee either. Based on your opinion, and also effort in trying to justify Iranians to be discriminated against, you're OK with it. Just don't try to make your position sound moral and ethical, obviously it is not and it doesn't matter how much you try to spin matters. p.s. I support "respecting the most basic international rules" the real one, not the phony one that you subscibe to.


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"I am sick and tired of these folks who barely make it to..."

by Objective observer (not verified) on

You need to stop blaiming, religious minorities for what you do to yourself.
There is no excuse or justification for human rights violations against any religious groups including your religion.
It is the unwise actions, and irrisponsible statements that put all of us Iranians at a risk.


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Unfair to Iranians, but

by observer (not verified) on

Yes, it sounds unfair to Iranians, but as long as the Iranian government is refusing to follow some of the most basic international rules, what do you expect from Dutch government? How about other unfair treatments of the Iranian students in Iran and by our own govenment?

I am sure if Iran could act like any other "normal" country, none of this "unfairness" would have happened to its citizens. So I am not going to sign it, before they mention the other issues.


programmer craig

To the tired one

by programmer craig on


This site is for Iranians. "Iranian.com" hello!
You may expres your views on "assholes.com
"

 

Universtities in the Netherlands are for Dutch students.

Iranians can obtain degrees in Iran.

 

PS-What country is hosting this website, by the way? Is it based in Iran? Who got permission for Iranians to use the English language here? English is not your language.

 

Sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it?

 

 


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respecting freedom and democracy and honoring international laws

by be real (not verified) on

Islamists occupied Iran while Iranians were tolerant and not vigilant and now Islamists in control are not tolerant to Iranians so why should other countries fall into the same trap.

I also believe the Dutch government, as any other government acts on its own national interests. I also say: Netherlands, well done.

If Iran would have acted more on the interest of Iranian nation and people, our country would have not grouped with other Moslem countries.

Let's become secular and progressive respecting freedom and democracy and honoring international laws and then entire world will embrace us.

You can not have "ham khar and khorma"


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Another "rational" ass hole!

by Tiiiiiired! (not verified) on

see the comment below 'The Dutch Gov.....".
This site is for Iranians. "Iranian.com" hello!
You may expres your views on "assholes.com"


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The Dutch government, as any

by Anonymousso (not verified) on

The Dutch government, as any other government acts on its own national interests. Their interest is to keep knowledge about nuclear bombs far away from crazy Iranian mollahs. I say: Well done The Netherlands! If Iran would be acting more on the interest of their own nation and people, their country wouldn't be a pile of shit as it is right now!


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Vocal minorities!

by observer (not verified) on

Iranian.com unfortunately has become dominated by the voice of bunch of very vocal minorities who are full of shit and have brought their complexes with them.

Minorities of Jewish and Bahaii roots have dominated these pages advocating attack on Iran and apologizing for every discriminatory act against Iranian citizens throuout the world.

I am sick and tired of these folks who barely make it to 1% of Iran population to spread their hatred toward Iranian people on these pages.

If anything, by this attitude you are justifying the treatment you get. YOu can not fix wrong by another wrong. Suffering of others would not heal your scars!


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Islamic Cultural Revolution!

by Naazokbin (not verified) on

Aren't most Iranians used to being denied access to education by now?
The so-called "Cultural Revolution" by the Islamists forced thousands of students out of Iranian colleges. Over the past three decades thousands of professors were forced to leave their jobs. The purge and arrest of college students and professors are continuing to this date.
While iranian_student_NL is hypocritically lamenting the decision by the Dutch government, Bahai students are not allowed to enter universities in Iran simply because of their beliefs.
I wonder why no action is taken against IRI decisions by student bodies worldwide?


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Cause and effect

by Fred (not verified) on

When the cause, belligerent Islamist Republic,is alleviated, the effect, denial of rights to Iranians worldwide will be a non-issue.


Jahanshah Javid

emzaa kardam

by Jahanshah Javid on

Thank you for taking this action. I hope the Dutch government comes to its senses. Discriminating against Iranian students and academics is unfair and ineffective. Challenge the Islamic Republic not the people.