iranvataneman

Obstinately or intolerantly devoted to opinions and prejudices

She demonstrates nothing but a rather crude attempt to find fault Bahais and how they try to

proclaim and spread their ideas.

You on the other hand are not interested in the least to learn anything new, as your preconceived ideas, are a major barrier to your enlightenment.

She sounds like  a person, who is  obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices ..

There is a word for that.

NWO

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cyp4jjy6kg

This clip is about an American woman who realizes the Bahai are part of this NWO on her own. She demonstrates a fascinating find from her perspective on what convinced her. I like how she points out that brief statement from their site. I enjoyed the video.

Safsateh va maqlateh-ye Baha'iyan

If no religion will rule Iran after the mullahs, as you assent, then there is no necessity for an ad hoc recognition of the Baha'is that you are in the same breath demanding either. A secular state would simply grant universal recognition to all without further ado. So why are you then mentioning recognition? That Baha'ism exists requires no further ad hoc recognition by any secular government since it is not the business of an entity that is separated from religion to grant or take away legitimacy from a religious entity. It exists. Period. A secular state has no further business in recognizing or not recognizing this religion, one way or another, just like in the US and much of Western Europe. But you people want actually formalized ad hoc recognition, which is what you also acknowledged above, and this is pure doublespeak and what everyone needs to heed in their dealings with you people!

Recognition to all, or nothing. Ad hoc recognition equals the same situation as we have today. But the questions haven't been answered:

1. do Haifan Baha'is now relinquish any claim to establishing a
Bahai Theocratic state (i.e. a Bahai commonwealth) in Iran? 2.
Will Haifan Baha'is defer any attempts to seek any special privileges
from a future post-IR regime? 3. Will Haifan Bahais accept to be
one amongst many religious minorities (including one amongst many Bahai
religious minorities) in the post-IR environment? Yes or no. Answer!

Ya NUR

No religion will rule Iran after the Mullahs

"if you want to put minds to rest"

But I can see why you are so frantic, your goose is cooked if Bahais get recognised. End of your own ambitions. Right now IRI hates them and you can get away with your porpoganda but afterwards you will not.

Get out of here, or answer...

You people are on record in your writings, statements, proclamations, enclyclicals as well as individuals such as Faryar Mansouri right here last year, that the ultimate goal of Bahaism in Iran is to establish a "Baha'i commonwealth" (a Bahai Theocratic state). Because this issue is not politically expedient at present for you Fascists to mention explictly in public does not mean that those of us who know your agenda are necessarily buying your present silence on the question just because you are attempting to reach some short term political goals primarily by pandering to a certain target crowd in the media your professional corporate-lobbyist advocates are hoping to reach.

But if you want to put minds to rest, answer yes or no to the following: 1. do Haifan Baha'is now relinquish any claim to establishing a Bahai Theocratic state (i.e. a Bahai commonwealth) in Iran? 2. Will Haifan Baha'is defer any attempts to seek any special privileges from a future post-IR regime? 3. Will Haifan Bahais accept to be one amongst many religious minorities (including one amongst many Bahai religious minorities) in the post-IR environment? Yes or no. Answer!

Ya NUR

Nur

"secularism and separation of religion from government doesn't mean that the Khomeinist theocracy is ultimately replaced with a Bahai one"

No it does not ,and that is not what the writer said. So why are you trying to provoke an argument? She is no more a Bahai than you are - you have Bahai family and so did she. She never signed up to religion as you did in the first place, and you are so keen to promote yours at the expense of another, even if it means their Human Rights.

Let me tell you that it is people like me you should be worried about. people in their 20s and the young generation who are born Mslim, who will see the likes of Mullahs and similar fascist-minded people like you OUT. The young people in prisons who will NEVER want to see people like Mullahs (which are you) in power again pushing people around and causing rift between minorities. So Bahais are your last problem. Watch out for the young generation! Your BS rhetoric fools noone.

Sag Koochooloo's tongue in cheek/Adib & manufactured consent

SK, secularism and separation of religion from government doesn't mean that the Khomeinist theocracy is ultimately replaced with a Bahai one, which is the longterm stated goal of your creed. Separation of mosque from state means that Baha'is are one amongst countless minorities that get to practice their religion without state interference whilst also not deriving any special benefits from this same state as a result of such minority status. But that is not what you people are after. You people are genuinely after political power in a post-IR Iran and there are countless statements in your own writings to that effect.

Adib, the amount of money that your organization has been spending in the global media over the past couple of years is a carefully orchestrated campaign by yourselves and your special interest lobbyist allies in North America and Western Europe to manufacture consent in the media. There is not a speck of truth or integrity in anything you people have done or what your media conglomerate buddies have done for you in this domain. Quote as many endorsements and sponsors as you like. Your organization knows how to buy people just as any corporate advertising sponsor does. Much of what your organization has put out there are already half-truths, omissions and exagerrations, sometimes outright deceit, like during the Montazeri fatwa episode where you people attributed to him what he  clearly didn't say. Face it, unless you people weren't actually worried about your diminshing futures internally with all the recent blow-ups, schisms, lawsuits and what have you, you would have no need to ramp up your global propaganda and buy endorsements by any means necessary. I maintain that given your political status amongst the Anglo-European establishment and the political alliances that guide you, that many of  the names you quote are endorsing your various causes and platforms for no other reason than for personal perks and career advancement  options, and nothing else. After all, we are talking about North America and Western Europe.

Ya NUR

Please become more informed before...

Iranvataneman 

Please become more informed before writing here.

Your statements reveal that you are in no position to make comments for or against the Bahai Faith.

You are not only literate about the subject,but portray all the attributes of the kind of victim that the Islamic Republic targets with its anti-Bahai Campaign.

The first prerequsite of these victims are

1. Prejudice born from Ignorance

Try and educate yourself by getting first hand information

//info.bahai.org/the-bab-forerunner.html

and see beyond the IRI manufactured lies.

Only then your comments will be respected and taken seriously, and you can engage in a two way intelligent discourse.

But at this moment you are incapable, since you have not bothered to find out the most elementary fact about well documented fact and history. 

faryarm 

iranvataneman

Iran is full of lawlessness and corruption - the fact that Basij can shoot at people in the street and kill innocents. What about rape in prisons? Show Trials to intimidate Human Rights activists, intellectuals, political dissidents, religious minorities?

Mate, you sound really ignorant. The comment about the Nazis ! Homosexuality exists whether you want to accept it or not. To call it a crime is dispicable. You have no humanity - how can you say Bahais or any other person of a different religion is "irrelevant"? Is this what Islam has taught you? Or is that what IRI the Theocracy has taught you? I hope that it is the latter.

The fact that you compare us to Nazis, murderers, and pedophiles

speaks volumes...

If people cared about Bahais, they would have stood up for them, but the fact that they didn't, implicates that the majority are against them and find them irrelevant. 

Au contraire, my friend:

"We are ashamed" - An Open Letter from a group of academics, writers, artists, journalists and Iranian activists throughout the world to the Baha’i community:

//www.we-are-ashamed.com/

Urgent Action: Seven Baha'i Leaders Risk Execution: 

//www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE13/066/...

Cherie Blair, "It is not just democracy that is illegal in Iran": 

//www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6669920.ece

Chants of "Baha'is, We will Support You" in Tehran's Streets:

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/3928

Ayatollah Borujerdi's supporters continue to protest the repression of the Baha'i community: 

//bameazadi19.blogspot.com/2009/05/blog-post_25.html

Amnesty International highlights Baha'i persecution: 

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/3313

Farhang Farahi, "It is the responsibility of all of us to defend the Baha'is with all our strength": 

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/2581

UK university's support for Iran's Baha'i students: 

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/2184

Dr. Hossein Bagher Zadeh, "Persecution of the Baha'is - Why?":

//iranian.com/main/2009/feb-22

Hassan Yousefi Eshkavari, "I really do not understand!": 

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/2023

Statement by more than 60 prominent academics: 

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/1776

Outcry from India against Injustice: 

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/1628

India's Open Letter Regarding the Yaran: 

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/1624

Abbas Djavadi, "Iranian Writers Protest Repression": 

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/1541

UK's top comedians stand up for Baha'is in Iran: 

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/1486

Wiesenthal Center Condemns "Delusiona'" Iranian Persecution of the Baha'i:

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/1330

Rainn Wilson on CNN: Stop Religious Persecution: 

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/1259

Statement of Support by Writers and Journalists from Kurdistan: 

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/1272

President Abolhassan Banisadr Supporting Freedom of Expression for Baha'is:

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/1252

The late Ayatollah Montazeri decrees that Baha'is are rightful citizens of Iran:

//1.bp.blogspot.com/_JovTlI-2GxM/SDQ8KNcyZLI/AAAAAAAABXE/JMbWAEWi1Qk/s1600-h/montazeri.jpg

An Evening in Support of the Baha'is of Iran:

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/4779

Dr. Abbas Milani, "In Support of the Baha'is of Iran":

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/4724

Azar Nafisi on Baha'i Human Rights in Iran:

//vimeo.com/6743354

Shohreh Aghdashloo speaks about Baha'i rights:

//vimeo.com/6799318 

As you can see, the Baha'is in Iran are cared for very much. We are not "irrelevant" as you claim. 

Freedom

Freedom for you guys is like, lets let Nazism exist, lets let homosexuality exist, lets let robbers exist, lets let pedophilles exist, lets lets allow pornography to exist, lets let murderers to exist, I guess these guys should be allowed to exist too am I right??

Absolute freedom is BS. Absolute freedom for people to do w/e they want, would make Iran worse than Haiti. It would be a country filled with lawlessness. I think Iranians don't want that at all. Hence why they have picked their leaders and their laws the way they wanted, and their comfortable with it.

If people cared about Bahais, they would have stood up for them, but the fact that they didn't, implicates that the majority are against them and find them irrelevant. 

The people of Iran,

The people of Iran, regardless of the ethnic group or tribe to
which they may belong, enjoy equal rights; and color, language and the
like do not present any sort of a special advantage.

This doesn't imply anything about religion. This is strictly ethnic (cultural orientation) like Vietnamese, Malaysian, Persian, Arab, Turkish, or Kurd. This has nothing to do with religion. If it had something about that, they would have implied, you can associated with any religious affiliation, but that section did not say religious, it said ethnic, please learn to read and understand the text.

Hopes for the future

Lets hope that one day soon Iran will separate state from religion, so that these type of divisions will no longer exist in our society. People should have the freedom to chose their religion and government, and the Islamic theocray of Iran has prevented them from doing both. this is now obvious to Muslims too.

A friend recently emailed me a very good article for those wanting to know more about the "Violations of the Rights of our Baha’i Countrymen" by Hamid Hamidi , who is a much-respected Iranian journalist in Europe and a number of learned articles and informed talks on various themes of human and civil rights of Iranians have appeared from him.

//www.iranpresswatch.org/post/880

It is unbelievable that some people entertain the idea of Ethnic Cleansing of Bahais, or any other iranian minority. It just shows you how dangerous these people's mindset and ideologies are.

hey,Quomvataneh man(very funny mona jon)

thanks bro i did not care to investigate about babis and bahaes but after your blog i will because they are not related to islam and that is GOOD:D

Adib

The connections of Bahaism with the Zionist movement are indisputable, however much you've been deptuzied by Bahai officialdom to write very mediocre and badly researched apologia denying it. The fact is your organization has thrived in Israel, not just merely existed there as an afterthought. The Israeli state has also bent over backwards for you people on numerous occasions on various issues, whether these are the grandiose building projects in Haifa or the amenability of the Ben Gurion government to siphon off properties of absentee Palestinians on Mt Carmel over to Shoghi Effendi after 1948. However you try to twist and conceal such things with the Orwellian historical methodologies Bahais are well known, it does not change the fact that such things (and there are countless more) establish outright collusion with at least the uhj Haifan organization and the Israeli state.

That said, I have stated before that I believe that your organization is ultimately a threat to Israel as well and that one day the Jewish state itself will realize this.

Ya NUR

"Simple, leave the country"

What a horrible thing to say !

Why don't you leave the US, for a start ?!

Zionism

I didn't accuse them specifically of being zionists (whether they are or not), but they recognize the zionist state of Israel, which means they found no faults regarding the state of Israel's creation after 1948. From a Muslim stand point, a Muslim would have expected them to move out of Haifa, or relocate centers in other areas around the world i.e. India and so on. But the fact that they choose to carry out programs in the state of Israel, creates tensions with the IRI, and the IRI doesn't recognize Israel as a legimate state. So by recognizing the enemy of Iran, Iran then equates you as being no less guilty compared to that main enemy. Especially with Israel, it creates even more tensions compared to other nations.

Like in sports, many Iranian athletes time and time again, have refused to spar or compete against Israeli athletes in some competition, or a one on one national competition. They refuse to recognize the state of Israel in this manner. But Bahais, after the creation of Israel, instead of moving out, or creating madhabs in other areas, and using those facilities, they found no faults with the state of Israel, after all like you said, it's a different faith. The continuation of the headquarters in Israel, is what will keep the tensions continueing. Needless to say, the Bahais much like the MKO, have blown their image. Both groups, will be punished if they are found active in the IRI.

As for Armenians I don't condone their actions. But the thing is, with Armenians or Assyrians, they have a different status, they are recognized as a Christian minority, and w/e is permissible in Christianity, is tolerated for them. Alcohol in a lot of Christian schools of thoughts is permissible, even in most Jewish faiths, so those 2 minorities are allowed to have licenses to drink. I don't condone the clerics that do illegal or sinful deeds either, they are no less guilty either.

You hear about the Iranian Muslim

Who went to Europe and was converted to Christianity? As part of the conclusion of the conversion ceremony, in order to formalize it, it was required that all the lights be turned off. The lights are turned off and then turned on again. When the lights are turned on the newly converted Christian former Muslim suddenly proclaims, "allahumma salleh 'alaa muhammad va aale muhammad" ;-)

Ya NUR

an old armenian, a friend

an old armenian, a friend of my family, was recounting the time when his car was stopped in tehran and he was suspected of having alcohol in the car.  after the pasdar found out that the man is armenian, he told him: "you can go, you're not muslim."  our armenian friend told him: "what do you mean?  i drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, horny as a dog, gamble, cheat, and like to lie especially to my wife.  i'm as much a muslim as those who're running this country."  the pasdar had a good laugh and let him go.

the story was much funnier the way he said it with his thick armenian accent.

You would do well to read this

Bahá'ís have also been accused of ties to Zionism, an international political movement that was formed to support the re-establishment of a homeland for the Jewish people in Palestine. A common way in which this claim is advanced is by pointing out that the most sacred shrines and holy places of the Bahá'ís are located in Israel. However, Bahá'u'lláh was banished from Persia by Nasser-al-Din Shah, at which time Bahá'u'lláh went to Baghdad in the Ottoman Empire. Later he was later exiled by the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire, at the behest of the Persian Shah, to territories further away from Iran and finally to Acre in Syria, which only a century later was incorporated into the state of Israel. Bahá'u'lláh died in 1892 near Acre, and the resting place is in Bahji. Following his death, Bahá'u'lláh's son `Abdu'l-Bahá took over the leadership of the religion until his passing in 1921, and he is buried in Haifa, which was then in Palestine. Another other important figure for Bahá'ís who is buried in current-day Israel is the Báb, whose remains were secretly transferred to Palestine and buried in Haifa in 1909. Israel was not formed until 1948, almost 60 years after Bahá'u'lláh's death, 40 years after the Báb's remains were brought to the region, and 27 years after `Abdu'l-Bahá's death.

Bahá'ís have also been accused of supporting the state of Israel because they send contributions to their international headquarters located in Haifa. These contributions are sent for the maintenance and upkeep of the Bahá'í shrines and historical sites and for attending to the administrative affairs of their global community. The National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Iran in a 1983 letter to the Iranian government stated that while Muslims were praised for sending money out of the country to Iraq and Jerusalem for the upkeep of their religious shrines, when Bahá'ís sent money for the upkeep of their own shrines it was considered an unforgivable sin.

The NWO part is clear

I just wanted to point out that they are not a part of Islam, or within any schools of thoughts within Islam. Many people try to tag them within a realm of Islam, but that's incorrect. I already pointed out they weren't the last with the mahdist claims. Apparently you weren't aware, when I said that there are many groups in Iran, with various faiths and beliefs, i.e. Yarsan who have their own Kurdish mahdist like person, who deviated from Shiite Kurds, and formed his own thing.

While many of them are dualist (practice Islam and a Kurdish religion), some have abandoned Islam entirely, but get along in the IRI, simply because they are not trying to destroy the IRI. If the Bahai faith were similar, they wouldn't face this problem. But, the Bahai faith and its relationship with Israel, gives Iran a legitimate reason to take action and criticize their presence, because they are now following the international and national rules of Iran, and one of those rules happens to be, not to have any relations with Israel if you are an Iranian non-Jewish citizen. The Bahais are the only group in Iran to break that rule.

This mini blogs sole intent was to show they are not Muslims or related to Islam, they are corrupt (relations with Israel), and therefore Iran takes action against them. :)

"Bahais are not part of Islam."

Nobody ever said we were. But would you care to legitimize how non-adherence to the state religion has, in Iran, become grounds for such ridiculous forms of persecution as desecrating cemeteries, barring students from receiving higher education, arbitrarily revoking business licenses, and gratuitously arresting Baha'is across the social palette without explanation only to later be forced into paying exorbitantly high bails as a guarantee of seeing the outside world again? (//www.iranpresswatch.org/)

I daresay your religious convictions have prevented you from assessing this travesty with objectivity. What else it could it mean when you think that, from a doctrinal standpoint, it's perfectly fine to persecute a group of people simply because their prophet came after Muhammad?

Qomvataneman

As a former Moslem who was born and grew up in a Moslem household who practiced Islam  (with a pretty good knowledge of shia Islam) I can answer your questions one by one( I say this with humility) , but you don't deserve it.

By the way it's not your concern where people should go, who to worship, what to do, and what to say?keep your nose out of other people's business.

Mona

Mantiq'ul-Hamar

You know, the only reason the Baha'i organization gets away with so much free publicity and manufactured popularity in the West and amongst some Iranians is because the level of the stupidity and self-righteousness of you people is so incredibly high, that the devil himself could be turned into Jesus Christ as a result!

What kind of silly, disconnected and absolutely childish reasoning is this? So what that Siyyid-i-Bab claimed to be the Mahdi or that he introduced his own Book or changed the laws of the Qur'an?  He wasn't the only one, for starters. Why do you keep the discussion merely on the most base and superficial religious questions when there are far more serious issues of pending gravitas to attack the Baha'is on than this nonsense!?

BTW the Babis and Baha'is weren't the first nor the last to reject the Creed of Donkeys (mazhab-e-kharaan), i.e. the shar'ia. So did many of the early Shi'a ghulat groups, the Nizari Isma'ilis,  Ishraqiyyun, Hurufis and countless Sufis over the centuries.

What you ought to be grilling these people over  instead is the fact that their globalist internationalist ideology automatically excludes them from 100% loyalty to Iran under any regime and so makes them antagonists to any notion of an autochthonous Iranian nationalism. This is an issue, not whether Siyyid-i-Bab claimed to be the Mahdi or whether Baha'is pray differently and eat pork (nooshe jooneshoon, btw, so do I as well as alcohol).

In your misguided zeal you are literally making these peoples' case for them and by implication smearing those of us who know the score and the issues and are fighting in the front-line trenches against the NWO Beast! Chill out, already, and go find new program directors at the Hawzeh in Qom!

Ya NUR