Jahanshah Javid

"Thank you Mr. Frye for so profoundly understanding who we are"

and knowing full well when our best and the brightest are in jails and have been raped our young girls are being married off some before reaching puberty, when our brothers and sisters have died on the streets asking for their most fundamental rights, and when you sit and have tea and crumpet with who calls us Khas and khashak not only we would not shun you but we would so profusely celebrate you for your greatness.  

Mr. Frye thank you for so profoundly understanding who we are that you know that we not even recognize that what you did is an insult to the ones who lost their lives because we would find the situation most opportune to whitewash your unconscionable act by understanding how your beautiful mind works in millenia and not like the ones of mere Iranians in jail whose every second is spent in agony in solitary confinement. 

 Thank you Mr. Frye for so profoundly understanding who we are that when you sit with the killer of our children and the raper of our sons and daughter we will praise you for being apolitical and that you suck up equally to all of our oppressors.

Oh Mr. Frye thank you for knowing us so well that we are such opportunists that not only we would not even mildly protest what you did but would find the situation opportune to put in a plug for ouselves as having a Masters degree.  Mr. Frye thank you for so profoundly understanding who we are and that with your profound historic knowledge of us you know that there is absolutely no down side to screwing us.  

In America, millions of

In America, millions of dollars are offered to set up a home for an Iranian, inducing him to reveal vital security secrets to better facilitate war.

In Iran, a home is offered to an American as a gift in recognition of a lifetime of achievement in the study of Iran, its history and culture.

Yeah, we're supposed to question and criticize the latter.

And I'll bet few here even see the hypocrisy in suggesting such a thing.

To Midwesty, this is your third comment on this thread that...

Midwesty, first comment I read from you on this thread implied that if someone agrees with JJ, he/she is a kiss-ass. Second comment that I read from you mentioned that you are tired of hearing about Hitler and now this one. In this last comment,  you tell JJ that he should accept 10K from IRI if offered and you write:"..  Heck if it's not even on behalf of Iranian people you should still accept it because Human Rights is a universally admired cause. " ha? 

I find all three of your comments offensive.

JJ,

What made all these national treasures to stand out from the ordinary beings is their ability to be independent in thoughts that resulted in visionary works, and their signature masterpieces not how they meticulously positioned themselves with respect to their respective political systems.

If Vezarate Ershad is offering you $10,000 for a noble cause and on behalf of the Iranian people, you must accept it. Heck if it's not even on behalf of Iranian people you should still accept it because Human Rights is a universally admired cause.

ART v. POLITICS

1. There are those who follow politics and wait for it to change before they express their art. 

 2. There are those to whom art operates in a different dimension to that of dry politics. They express themselves regardless and often find politics being their followers.

The Soviets belonged to no.1. You had to toe the party line or be labelled a traitor. Paint pictures of workers or be called a "bougeois" for painting abstract art, say.

Most real artists create from a very different place, than that of politics.

Thank goodness, Iranians continued their art and architecture despite a history that has more opression than peace. When we look at Iran via politics alone, suddenly Iran is no different to any 2nd/3rd world struggling nation from Latin America to Africa with poor politicians.

But we are the leaders in much that is rooted in the arts and architecture, how did that happen? Because we value our arts and culture so deeply that we don't drop everything over politics. This is actually one of the attributes of the Iranian people that Frye and Pope point to often.

The Dome in Florence is modeled after a Persian model in architecture. Our poets blew the minds of folks around the world - Hafez was called the "poet of poets" by Emerson, worshipped by Goethe and Nietzche. We are home to the world's first Gardens were created. Our cuisine is one of the most refined in the world -- 

Frye and Pope  dedicated their lives to document this particularly Iranian attribute - shaking hands with the Shah or IRI isn't what mattered to them - but the profound artistic soul of its people.

Yes, we can become very Black or White - like the Soviets were - and say that politics is first and all else comes second. Thankfully, our history hasn't been such at all. We've been ruled by external and internal dictators for most of our history while  our arts and architecture have fluourished.

Frye wants to die in Iran. He's 90 years old and the house he's been given will be turned into a public museum the second he passes.

Thank you Mr. Frye for so profoundly understanding who we are as a people, and dedicating your life to documenting our uniqe way of existing despite the politics around us. 

Oktaby, this isn't the first

Oktaby, this isn't the first time this kind of thing has occurred on a site with this type of ad program.

But everytime I've seen it done to a site where the owner and audience have found the ad content objectionable, the site owner has taken corrective measures.

Apparently that's not being done here at Iranian.com. Nor has there been a disclaimer or apology offered for the pro-Zionist site advocating the bombing of Iran.

Instead, all we get is mealy mouthed what-ifs. JJ asks, what if he's a jerk? 

Jerks are one thing, supporting a cause promoting death and destruction upon one's own people by a foreign interest, that's quite another.

Thank you

Midwesty, Vezarate Ershad has sent me an invitation to receive an award for freedom of expression.

If Ferdowsi, Rumi and Hafez bowed to kings, bandeh khaak paashoon ham neestam. I'm getting my ticket to Tehran to pick up my $10,000 check.

Thank you for solving my moral dilemma.

Oh, and by the way, Shamloo was such an idiot not to surrender his soul to power and fame.

What a freaking standard you people are setting,..

Now with your standard I have to denounce Hafiz ,Saadi, Molavi, and ... since they didn't stand against Mongolian aggression as Attar did and put his life on the line.
Yes Ferdousi also wrote his great masterpiece for a jackass too but was he really?

Google

I made this point in brief earlier and I figured most know this but apparently that is too much to assume:

-Most sites cannot afford, nor it is practical & cost effective, to run/manage their own search & advertising operations. So they use main search engines to drive search/advertising placement.

-Search engines use various mathematical algorithms driven by complex web stats & analytics to do this. Google being the most dominant has the lion share of the market with Bing being the second now.

-These algorithms are closely held trade secrets. The secret sauce so to speak. There is a whole search business (SEO) that feeds off this along with other derivative products and services. Those familiar with Google apps & Cloud understand this at some detail.

-Google does not take input from the market about how/what these algorithms can/cannot drive.

//www.wired.com/magazine/2010/02/ff_google_algorithm/ 

The accusations, and endless drivel from paid agents or goofballs like SP et al, that some oblige in engaging or assume has any validity whatsoever, are just that. Drivel.

OKtaby

JJ, please read the post again

I did not say you do... I said IF you were to - big difference

and if that was the case, would you accept it?

Now regarding my delusion and cynicism…. first thing first, lets get a response (hopefully politer) to that question and then we come to my delusions and cynicism, agreed?

Mehrdad

P.S. Yes to your final point, there is often a price to pay for integrity.

Neither with us not against us, doesn't care about us!

This regime is as brutal as some Mr. Frye has probably studied. Would he go back in history and accept a gift from Mongols after their invasion? Would he sit down with Arabs who invaded Iran? Would he accept gifts from cruel kings? Because that’s what he’s doing here. Except it’s in the present time.

There’s no value in trying to preserve our cultural heritage if we are going to completely disregard a system that is working to destroy our future. That’s what he’s doing, he’s not with us, nor against us. It looks like he’s just turning a blind eye. Like Hafez said below, he “stands for his own interests” and isn’t “getting bothered by the IRI”.  

And we can't leave the arts alone because we are all political beings. The fact that we are here talking on this site is itself a political thing. So when Frye goes to Iran and accepts property from the government of Iran, he mixes politics with art. Maybe Hafez should tell him to leave politics alone.

Leave the ARTS alone

I was grateful you posted the Richard Frye story. His predecessor Arthur Upham Pope is buried in Isfahan and Frye announced 2-3 years ago, that he too would like to be buried there. The house is for him to live in until he dies and gets buried, it is then going to be turned into a public museum.

My post below outlines my perspectives on the issue further. 

I'm an artist and tired of politically driven folks stopping the world from going around. Frye and Pope also receive homes from the Shah. It's just an argument out there - that if we stopped being artists the second we hated a regime - then politics would trump the arts - and I think politics alone has done enough to humanity as things stand.

If the Shah, me or you, or any other was ruling Iran, Frye would have had to go to them to ask to be buried there. He can't help the fact that he's nearing his death at this moment. He wants to be buried in Iran. His interest in Iran isn't in its politics.

It's just another way of viewing the world. Iran doesn't belong to the IRI, the Shah, or you and I. It's a collection of achievements, and to him they go beyond who is or isn't in power. He loves her arts and architecture and wants to live there, in this home, and then be buried there - after which the home will be a public museum.

When George Bush bombed Iraq, did we frown on any artist who would shake his hand? Did America stop being America? No.

To Frye - Iran is what matters and has for all his life. Politics can cause people not to be able to think out of the box. Hafez, who you mention, actually was renowned for being able to "survive" and charm those who opposed him. Shiraz as a city, historically survived better than other parts of Iran, for its capacity to not do the Black or White game and keep its soul alive.

I was really touched when Frye announced wanting to be buried in Iran.

I think it's unfair to ask him why he shook whoever happened to be Iran's ruler of the day's hand - he wants to be buried in IRAN, he's 90 and his interests and profound commitment have been to Iran's art and architecture. He shook the Shah's hand, and he's shaking the hand's of this regime - Let this 90 year old man be - honor him to die in a country he dedicated his life t0 - and have the house which the second he dies is going to be turned into a public museum.

Under the Soviet system - if artists didn't toe the party line - they were called traitors. They had to paint realist scenes of the revolution or be labelled this, that or the other.  The same argument can be turned on its head - that if you shake hands with someone, then you're a traitor?

I prefer to leave the Arts out of politics. We remember Hafez - but not many rulers from his day. 

My point exactky

Bavafa, so you say I receive money from AiPAC and Zionists and...

Okay, let's say your delusions and cynicism are actually true. That would make me an enemy of Iran and Iranians. A mercenary. A complete jerk.

What you are saying is that there IS a price to pay in integrity. There IS a moral limit to how far we can go to accept gifts, especially from leaders whose atrocities are all over YouTube for the world to see.

Thank you for proving my point.

Great JJ

Your are quite Right, and I was wondering why is that no one in Iran gets such a gift? as you said we like to please others and bash our own people.

SARGORD PAS: what is your problem with Jews and I just don't get it and what a stupid accusation you make, do you have any brain of your own to think? and you keep accusing everyone that they are zionist and if they are so what,are you arab or you just another moozdor ya sandiskhor?we Iranian love american and zionist people and we have no problem with them and only terroist people have a problem with them. 

Pirouzi: What You Want to Look Like When You Finally Grow Up

My comment is: you really are shameless, Pirouz.

How much do you get paid for this harassment? If you have all the answers, why not start a website of your own?  How about "Shameless Pirouzian.com"?  You could blog endlessly to your own insightful, charmingly stunted self, all the day long. You would always be the dominant opinion! You could send awards to yourself! Write odes to your magnificent wit!  You could even draw funny cartoons of freedom-loving people!

Think about it, please? We'll take up a collection for you. We'll pay you to expound your incredibly benighted one-note drivel into the  ether where(like all narcissists), you will always be right, always be brilliant and forever beyond pity.

Your jealousy of JJ is pathetic. Take a lesson from him, Pirouzi. He is what you want to look like when you finally grow up.

That is a very legitimate question to JJ,

I find myself for the first time agreeing with SP

If IC was to receive $$$ from AIPAC and Israel ads, specifically those that are to promote hostility towards Iran, would JJ accept those $$$?

This is while I understand you are running a business and every business cost $$$.

Mehrdad

well done JJ

as always your insight is to the point.  I agree that he should have given it back.  But in the least it proves the point WE are all making on this site and millions of us are harping outside of this site.  America is loved by ALL iranians inside or outside.  Even the IRI wants to attach itself to America to be saved.  God Bless America and its scholars.

No comment. Well, well,

No comment.

Well, well, well. We know where everybody stands, now, don't we?

For JJ, he can't figure out why a Professor shouldn't be afforded a gift for his promotion of Iranian culture.

But when it comes to accepting money from a group that wants to cause death and destruction upon the people of Iran, mum's the word.

Hey, it's business- right? So people could get hurt. You'll still be able to sleep at night. Isn't that so?

این سرگرد

هنوز نمیدونه و نمیخواد بفهمه که الگوریتم گوگل چطوری کار میکنه. همینجور هم یه بند راجع به هر چیزی یه زری میزنه و تمام رجال و قهرمانان ایران هم که فامیلشن و هر نوع توپ و تانکی رو هم که میشناسه.

ج ج، یک قسمت مخصوص تو رو خدا واسه این تهگرد قند علی‌ درست کن و خیال همه رو راحت کن

OKtaby

Ari, I read your helpful comments and info on Frye. However, this is not us or them. There is nothing in this gift fiasco for Iranian people or the opposition. It only benefitted IRR & Frye not matter how you slice it.

Midwesty,

You did not grasp a word I said. Mussolini was brough up by a commentator and I responded. The sequence is read, think then respond. 

Yeah Oktaby,

Everybody should drop anything they are doing and stick to politics. Now that's productive! To one who carries a hammer every problem is a nail!

By the way for the first 50 years, using the words "Hitler and Mussolini" could bring a nice dramatic tone to the table, now we are kind of sick of hearing it!

Frye on the IRI

"That's going to change anyhow. It will change because it is in the course of History. This has happened before. This has happened many times before. Iran eventually comes through." source.

Frye's words of hope carry a great deal of weight for an opposition movement because his thinking is not mere wishful thinking. He knows Iran well. In fact, his scholarly neutrality makes him among the most believable when he indicates that there is reason to hope. I'm sure he won't begrudge our using his works to our advantage.

All this to say, just as the IRI  leverages Frye, so can we.  A "with us or against us" mentality works against unity and therefore hope.

Conscience

Hafez for Beginners, when is it not okay to be praised and rewarded by tyrants, personally? Is there ever a time when we must say "no"?

Just because Pope and Frye were also honored by the Shah, does not mean we should not be surprised by the acceptance of the latest gift.

First of all the crimes committed by the shah pale in comparison. What Iranians are going through today in terms of political and religious oppression is unprecedented.

Would you go to Tehran and receive a gift from Ahmadinejad for promoting Hafez?

I just want to know where the line is. Any gift from anybody is acceptable?

Until this week, Frye was a great scholar. Now he's a great scholar who kissed and hugged Ahmadinejad.

The "Stand with Israel"

JJ: the "Stand with Israel" advertisement featured here on Iranian.com. When you collect money for the ad content provided for this site, part of that money will be coming from this group. 

You've already conceded that the ad has been featured on the site. What are you going to do when the money comes? Give it back?

Or will you accept the money provided from ad space allocated to a pro-Zionist group seeking to bomb the people of Iran? 

Nice lecture & wiki

info. There was plenty on the other blog already.

Your fascination and school-paper debt of gratitude not withstanding HFB, people's love of art & Italian culture, would not make kissing Mussolini's behind ok, or AN's because somehow one is above pedestrian stuff like concern for human life or destruction of the very culture you spend your life writing about. Same goes for equivocating Nazeri's act & Frye's.

Nazi's or Bush for that matter had all kinds of top notch collaborators kissing up to them under different guises as well. A course in Philo/logic could help you understand why your equivocation is just another justification. 

OKtaby

cyclicforward,

Sit back, no body asked about your opinion snitch! There are enough soft lips glued to his ass that there is no room for a scruffy one.

JJ you are right on

My sentiment exactly. Sargoosfand Pirooz, if you have evidence, please share it. otherwise shut up with your stupid comments. You disgust me every time.

?

Sargord Pirouz, I/iranian.com receive money from a "pro-Zionist group"? And which group is that? What money?

Pirooz bashi ba een raastgooee o ensaafet.

...

این قلبِ رَحیمْ وعقلِ حَكيمِ جهانشاه خان..آخِر کار دستَشْ میدهَند.

"It's just baffling that a

"It's just baffling that a scholar of his stature, an intellectual, a man with tremendous knowledge of history and humanity, can accept this gift from Ahmadinejad"--> JJ

This, JJ finds "baffling", while he himself accepts money from a pro-Zionist group dedicated to bombing Iran, for advertisements here on Iranian.com.

Incredible. Just incredible.

RICHARD the BRAVEHEART

Richard Frye and his predecessor Arthur Upham Pope are probably the most honorable of Iranian Studies Academics in the West.

They both also sucked up major to the Shah and the previous regime. My take is that their priority is preserving our cultural heritage - regardless of which regime is in power.

Pope - lived in Iran for 40 years and dedicated his life to what is still today the most comprehensive of studies on Iranian Art and Architecture. His 11 volume Encyclopeadia is a feat of an achievement - used by all scholars of Persian Art + Architecture.

Frye - Pope's student, went on to set up the FIRST Iranian Studies department in the US at Harvard University.

For those who would question his political beliefs vis-a-vis the current regime in Iran, I recommend the below. To Frye Persian civilization was under-appreciated by other Muslims and Arab Muslims in particular:

"Arabs no longer understand the role of Iran and the Persian language in the formation of Islamic culture. Perhaps they wish to forget the past, but in so doing they remove the bases of their own spiritual, moral and cultural being..." - The Golden Age of Persia - R.N. Frye

FRYE + POPE were coined as Iran-lovers: "Iran-Doost"-s.

They are and were,  and just because they are capable of separating their passsion and dedication to our culture without getting bothered by either the Shah or IRI - they shouldn't be mocked. I actually think the world would be a better place if people looked beyond the politics of countries and into their cultures instead.

Under Mussolini, people still valued Michaelangelo, Florence, Italian opera, Da Vinci etc. 

I for one, as an artist and architect am very proud of these two men. Pope's and Frye's work are to this day essential research material to any Iranian scholar of Art and Architecture. I'm a Berkeley graduate in (MA in Architecture) and was profoundly grateful to their scholarship in helping me with papers on our own Art and Architecture. 

The fact that Pope and Frye can shmooze as easily with the Shah as with the IRI - is testament to their strength of character when it comes to standing up for their own interests - in this case: Iran's profound cultural heritage. 

I thank them deeply.