Secular Democracy for Iran

بگذریم استاد، روستا

"عدو شود سبب خیر اگر خدا خواهد"، غرض عرض ارادتی بود خدمت سرکار...

If my body dies, let my body die, but do not let my country die.

چنگیز خان به

چنگیز خان

به قول معروف والا چه عرض کنم

استاد فرح روستا، با عرض ارادت

من بیشتر احترام قائلم برای اون حزب‌الله‌ی، برای شاهی، مصدقی، مجاهد،
کمونیست، ... تا کسی‌ با افکار تو که فکر می‌کند عاقبتش بدون حکمت هیچ یک
از این سلاطین سابق ایستادن با پیژامه در صف نانوایی هست.

من که دیگر جرات نزدیک شدن به این جماعت "دم پایی‌ پلاستیکی پوش"
که کوفت و زهرمار حواله میکنند را ندارم. از سرکار تمنّا می‌کنم، امر کنید که
جمله فوق ترجمه شود که من بفهمم این برادر بسیجی‌ که مثلا باسوادترینشان
است چه میخواسته که فرمایش کند. 

If my body dies, let my body die, but do not let my country die

Hamsade jan

I only asserted that Shaban had missed almost the entire action. By the time he joined the crowd, Mossadegh had already fallen. 

FR

Nice copy and paste job Faramarz darling

But you only proved I was right on one of my assertions: Churchill (in his sick bed) met Roosevelt AFTER the event and not before (as you mistakenly claimed) though he had briefly met him months before in that London conference.

But I wanted you to test your elders knowledge, why are you so upset?

FR

فرح خانم

حتما شما با عکس‌های که در لینک‌های زیر هست آشنایی دارید.  آیا به نظر شما عکس شعبان است؟ آیا به نظر شما این حوادث در ۲۸ امرداد اتفاق افتاده؟ شاید بعد از ظهر ۲۸ امرداد؟

اگر نه و نه و نه، پس فکر می‌کنید این عکس‌های چه واقعه‌ایست و آن مرد درشت اندام در این عکس‌ها کیست؟  خیلی‌ ممنون.

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Farah Sweetie

You did not state any sources for your assertions and “facts”, while you questioned mine and ridiculed my elderly relatives.

This is so easy that I don’t even need a “lifeline” to my dear relatives.

But, why so much bitterness?   

Here are some historical facts with references.

“While Churchill recuperated, a secret Anglo-American plan that he had approved before his stroke came to a dramatic climax. On August 19 in Iran, Mossadegh was overthrown and the Shah re-instated. Eisenhower and Churchill had approved the plan, which stated bluntly, “Mossadegh must go.” (National Security Archive, Electronic Briefing Book No. 28, “The Secret CIA History of the Iran Coup, 1953.”

“Working together the American CIA and the British SIS carried it out, using as their main agent Kermit Roosevelt, a grandson of President Theodore Roosevelt. Churchill had seen Kermit Roosevelt in London during the last months of Truman’s presidency, when Churchill had spoken “with special vehemence” about the need for action. But Truman had been averse to any action. (Kermit Roosevelt, Countercoup: The Struggle for the Control of Iran, page 107.)”

“With the overthrow of Mossadegh, a new oil consortium was created, in which Anglo-Iranian Oil and a group of American oil companied each had 40% stake. Churchill was later said to have called the Anglo-American enterprise “the finest operation since the war.” (Donald Wilber, Overthrow of Mossadegh of Iran, November 1952 – August)”

“When Kermit Roosevelt returned through London, Churchill told him: “Young man, if I had been but a few years younger, I would have loved nothing better to have served under your command in this great venture.” (Kermit Roosevelt, Countercoup: The Struggle for the Control of Iran, page 207.)”

Revisited not Revised

MM

You may wish to keep a blind eye on the fact that the "current un-democratic inhumane regime" could not have been founded without the generous contributions of Mossadegh's chest-beating aids and former ministers. That is you right. But please don't expect others to follow your choice.If history is not explored and understood, it can repeat itself.

FR

what is all this systematic assault on Mosaddegh?

It seems like there is a bunch of blogs lately (e.g., see //iranian.com/main/2010/aug-17) to belittle Mosaddegh.

Our beef is with the current un-democratic inhumane regime in Iran, and our thinking should be what replaces it.  Historic re-visionism only goes to show how hard we try to dump on other camps. 

Hard facts not hatred

Faramaz joon with all due respect sweetie you cant' even repeat the common (and erroneous version) of the events correctly. Despite the so called wealth of knowledge (thanks to your Mossadeghi elderly relatives) that you claim to exist there remains a set of hard and factual questions that only recently some liberal-minded historians have began to address. Here is a selection from your own version to whet your appetite (if you have any):

"Ayatollah Kashani and the mullahs who were afraid of a democratic and nationalistic figure like Mossadegh..."

Can you explain how Kashani and mullahs were not afraid of the same democratic (!!) and nationalist (!!) figure, namely Mossadegh, only two years earlier when they were supporting him to the extent of beating Ghavam's and Razm Ara's supporter using the club wielding ring leaders like Shaban Jafari? 

"... Churchill, who were opposed to the nationalization of Iran’s oil who
saw Kermit Roosevelt at his sick bed and gave him his blessing to fund
the coup..."

Churchill saw K Roosevelt for the first time in his life only after the fall of Mossadegh (K Roosevelt's own book).

" ...and the mob that were organized by Sha’boon Bimokh",

Did you know that Shaban was in Mossadegh's prison prison until midday 28 Mordad and missed all the action? 

So you see, Faramarz joon even in a simple recount of the events by someone who claims to know so much we so so many factual errors!!

Now why don't your pick up the phone and ask your elders for some answer?

FR

Where does all this hatred for Mossadegh come from?

We are lucky that there is wealth of knowledge about Mossadegh and his era, both in terms of books and memoires, but also elderly Iranians (like my own relatives) who actually were there and bared witness to what was happening.

Today is the anniversary of the coup against Mossadegh (28th Mordad) masterminded by the Brits and Churchill, who were opposed to the nationalization of Iran’s oil who saw Kermit Roosevelt at his sick bed and gave him his blessing to fund the coup, and Rashidian brothers (British agents) living on Takht e Jamshid street who channeled the money onto the streets, General Zahedi (Ardeshir Zahedi’s father) who became the prime minister, Colonel Nasiri (later became General Nasiri, the head of Savak) who went to Mossadegh’s house to tell him that he was removed from his post by the late Shah, but was arrested by his junior officers and placed in the basement, and the mob that were organized by Sha’boon Bimokh, and funded by Bazaar money in Meydoon that attacked Mossadegh’s house. And the last, but definitely not the least of all the culprits, the head of Majlis, Ayatollah Kashani and the mullahs who were afraid of a democratic and nationalistic figure like Mossadegh and rallied around the Shah.

Please, let’s respect our history and our national figures.

دیوانه جان آخر چه‌ای کار کجایی ؟

دیوونه جون نمیدونم چرا هر وقت اسم تو رو می‌‌بینم بی‌ اختیار یاد این مصرأع معروف عماد خراسانی می‌‌افتم. حالا که منو جلو همه خلق رسوا و بدنام کردی مجبورم تمام غزل رو برات بخونم تا بدونی چقدر دلم از دستت خونه. ‌ای بی‌ وفا کردی جفا با ما چرا؟ حالا چرا؟ اینجا چرا؟

بس در سر زلف بتان جا کردی ای دل

ما را ميان خلق رسوا کردی ای دل

غافل مرا از فکر فردا کری ای دل

تا از کجا ما را تو پيدا کردی ای دل

روزم سيه حالم تبه کردی تو کردی

ای دل بسوزی هر گنه کردی تو کری

ای دل بلا ای دل بلا ای دل بلايی

ای دل سزاواری که دايم مبتلايی

از مايی آخر خصم جان ما چرايی

ديوانه جان آخر چئی کار کجايی

مجنون شوی ديوانه ام کردی تو کردی

از خويشتن بيگانه ام کردی تو کردی

FR

I only state my opinion Farah khanoom

to dwell on a bygone era would only dilute the common thread that we all share: the opposition to the brutal rule of Islam in Iran. Otherwise, knock yourself out.

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________

Dear Farah

Could you please explain and let me know where in my comment you had the word "evdice". Are you day dreaming again?

As with regards to Razm Ara, I just have to put 2 & 2 together to see who was behind it. Alam leading the man to his killing point and one of Fadaian Islam who had good link to Kashani (who we know sided with Shah during the coup) did the job. There are also some suggestion that the fatal shot was fired by a plain cloth police. I have gone through all these with you before, including the rivalry between Shah and Razm Ara, and am not going to keep going over the same lesson. You can attribute any quality that you wish to yourself, but you will be fooling yourself if you think others would give you the same credibility. Now please search my text for spelling mistake.

COP don't take us too seriously

Look I have endless respect and admiration for JJ and his masterful achievement Iraniandotcome but please don't tell me that the fate of the IRI is going to be decided by our exchanges. We are here to learn from each other. These exchanges are part of the learning process. To me this is the strongest aspect of Iraniandotcome. Don't you agree?

COP this "fight" is the least of anyone's concern.

Everything is sacred

Very clever

of the mullahcracy to incite the type of resentment and hate (both ways) that makes two opposing views fight each other (the monarchists vs non-monarchists) while they loot Iran.

Come on people, the enemy is the theocratic anti-nationalist regime of the unelected clergy and their goons (everywhere), not what was....but what it is now: A friggin' mess of a country.

I bet their representatives just love reading your posts going at each other.

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________

Mrs. Rusta

I guess the term Mossadeghollahis you used, will go in the same way as the term SHAHOLLAHIS, there are bunch of them here on this site with CHOMAAGH in hand and ready to shove us back to the Shah's Tammadon e Bozorg ;o)

Did you say "clear" evidence??!!!

Divaneh jan I am sorry to note that you still see it necessary to have a go at me? Obviously you are wounded so badly by my detecting your frequent "glitches(!!)" that you jump at every opportunity to avenge your little faux pas :))

But about that "clear evdice". Where is this written/recorded order by the Shah that has been kept so secret for 58 years?Why is it that such "clear evidence" is only clear to Mossadeghollahis and to none other? Even your "objective" historian, Milani, is not clear about it!!

I didn't realize that you are such a Sherlock Holmes LOL. 

FR

You can talk to a wall

and have more sense than talking to an advocate of dictatorship monarchy(just to separate them from conditional monarchists). They are as petty minded and childish as you have seen demonstrated in this blog.

In their view, you can rape a nation, have its resources plundered by the selected few, and torture and kill anyone who questions your authority, as long as you can spell the torture correctly.

As with the main self deceiver Farah, she has repeated these stuff about Mosadegh and Razm Aara before and has refused all the clear evidence that shows Razm Ara was killed on the order of the Shah and was escorted to the mosque (where he was assassinated) by no other than Alam, who in the first place had insisted on the fatal visit to the mosque.

I don't think she believes her own childish fabrications, but she does it in the hope to find at least one person with the bad luck who may believe them. She is no different to the guy who writes book after book to prove Cyrus was appointed to his position and controlled by Jews. To these people other people are stupid enough to believe them. Hen has only one leg and a country has an owner who owns everyone else.  

"Mongoloid" is exactly my point Mrs. Rusta....

This character is incapable of grasping complex issues, he has a mental capability is of a 3 years old with a Chomaagh in hand!!! I did not say anything to provoke him to attack me, but all I did was to exercise my right to free speech by posting this blog.

Further more, I'm not an anti-Monarchy (although I think its out-dated form of government) and I will go as far as supporting your Rights to promote your political ideas. But what bothers me is that there is a group of folks out there who are turning blind a eye to what has taken place in the history an not learning from it. They want to go to the past at any cost believing everything was glorious and fine and there were no problem, no grave mistakes were made, we had democracy and political freedom and there was no Estebdaad!!! If that was the case why are we here at this point today talking about it and why the last 31 year happend??!! Let’s not stick our heads in sand if we really want change for Iran!

مغول جان

اگر کلیمی بودی آواتار هیتلر رو انتخاب میکردی و یک دلیل نیم‌پخته میاوردی که چطور وطن‌دوستی‌ را از او باید یاد گرفت.  گمانم که فرهنگت را از مغول خان به ارث برده‌ای که برد انتقاد از هیچ حاکمی نداری، چه آخوند‌، چه شاه، چه عرب، و چه مغول.  این طرز فکر مداحان هر درباری‌است که شبیه نهالی با هر بادی به اینور و آنور خم میشوند.  من بیشتر احترام قائلم برای اون حزب‌الله‌ی، برای شاهی، مصدقی، مجاهد، کمونیست، ... تا کسی‌ با افکار تو که فکر می‌کند عاقبتش بدون حکمت هیچ یک از این سلاطین سابق ایستادن با پیژامه در صف نانوایی هست. نگران تو نیستم که هر کوفت و زهرماری جلوت میگذارند شکر خدارو میکنی‌. برو خوش باش.

Correction Khar jan!

Genghis is (was) a Mongol not a Mongoloid. Mongoloid is the term usually used to describe those who resemble the Mongol especially those suffering from the Down syndrome.

BTW your anti-monarchy ranting is very much like a basiji trying to force his words down the throat of a captive.You are not a basiji are you? So control your anger. You don't want to copy the basiji do you really?

Cool down Khar jan, as they say, the night s long :))

FR

Genghis the Mongoloid

You don't get it and you never will,  SHAH MORD So DID THE NEZAMEH PADESHAHI 31 years ago! Thanks to people like you. Stop the mental masturbation about the inglorious past.

** There is no Limit to Stupidity **

نویسنده این بلاگ این قدر سواد داشته که سواد دیگران رو نشون بده!

همه چک و چونشونو زدند حالا اشکال از نویسنده بلاگه؟! همینه که هست بجور که بردی.  سینه زنی‌ هم سینه زنی‌ قدیم! تحمّل شنیدن یک شعر هم دیگه نیست!

Everything is sacred

با احترام کامل عرض میشود...دکتر جان

به قول شما، صلوات سکولار میفرستیم. ولی‌ اصل قضیه سر جایش است.
نویسنده این بلاگ، و همچنین همسایهٔ به وسط میدان پریده‌شان باید بدانند که
"کار هر بز نیست خرمن کوفتن". کسی‌ که از عهده نوشتن چهار جمله ساده بر
نمی‌‌آید، نباید به خودش اجازه عرض اندام در مسائل و موضوعات سیاسی یا
اجتماعی را بدهد، و یا نقش "طرف مشورت خلق الله" را بازی کند. قصد توهین به
این آقا و همفکرانش را ندارم ولی آیا خود شما از گدای سر کوچه، توصیه
اقتصادی و یا مالی‌ می‌پذیرید؟  عرصه بی‌ در و پیکر اینترنت به جای خود،
حیای همان گربه‌‌ای که این گفتگو را باعث شده کجا رفته؟.  

خیلی‌ از ما از شاه انتقاد می‌کنیم، چون نتوانست سلطنت را نگاه دارد، و
ما را که از آخوند‌ بیزار هستیم آواره کرد. اگر انصاف داشتید از شاه و
آخوند‌ سپاسگزاری هم میکردید و گرنه خیلی‌ از ما کجا و فرنگ کجا؟ خیلی‌ از
این دوستان حسرت آن روز‌هایشان را میخورند که با  دم پایی‌ لا انگشتی به پا
و با پیژاما توی صف نانوائی ایستادن، شروع میشد.  حد خودتان را بدانید،
قبل از آنکه برای مردم تعیین تکلیف کنید.

If my body dies, let my body die, but do not let my country die.

And talking about bedfellows and a little love story

Khar jan

Just thought to remind you that long before the the last nezam paused to continue, another "nezam" ceased to exist just because each of the two bedfellows who were behind that "nezam" were too much of a demagogue for each other to fit into the same bed. Their names? Mohammad Mossadegh and Seyyed Abol Ghassem Kasahni.

After a happy honeymoon which lasted a few years the groom to be (Kashani) presented his future bride (Mossadegh) with a delightful gift: the dead body of the incumbent prime minister, Razm Ara, and popped the "question." to which the bride happily answer: Yes! Soon the marriage took place with the groom's relatives outnumbering the bride's by 10 to 1. The happy couple moved into their new home, Majlis, and the troubles began almost immediately.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, the newly-wed's partnership didn't last more than two years and when the groom cut his support from the bride all fell apart. There was the original  and rightful master in the house. The bride was sent to her family home for a long widowhood and the groom after and short detention was kept on a short leash for the rest of his life.The rightful master knew he had to  keep the former groom and his vast number of relatives under constant watch: feed them without firing them up. Unfortunately they asked for far more than their fair share and we all know what happened later. Just thought to remind you of the original unhappy marriage and its consequences.

Happy now? :)   

FR

Aghayoon

Lotfan ye salavate Secular:) khatm konid.

Sheerni? Ajeel:? bafram:)

اشکال ما

اشکال ما اینجاست که گربه‌ همیشه در استبداد بوده.  چنگیز خان مغول و دسته‌ش میلیون‌ها ایرانی‌ (بگذریم از میلیون‌ها از ملیت‌های دیگر) را سر به نیست و تجاوز کرد و این بی‌سواد آواتار این نکبت را گرفته و از "کم سوادی" مردم می‌ناله.  خدا یه پولی‌ به ما بده و یه عقلی به ایشان.

Is that all you can say?!

Your beloved "Nezameh Padeshahi" DIED 31 years ago! by the same Mullahs whom your Shah was in bed with for 37 years. Wake up and smell the coffee!