Secular Democracy for Iran

Mrs. Rusta

You wrote: "While I have high regards for Milani's work as far as researching the Pahlavi era based on Anglo-American documents is concerned, his subsequent analyses of his findings remain to be his weakest point."

Also: “The leftist, in their blind zeal, completely ignored and undermined the potent and powerful influence of religion on the populace and they paid a very high price for their ignorance. They were used as the foot soldiers of the revolt against the Shah and shortly after they were no longer needed, they were annihilated. No wonder Milani and his likes are still lamenting their grand folly.”

Beside labels which are very easy for one to come up with, what part of Mr. Milani's analysis you disagree with? He points to the fact that Shah and Shah alone cleared out the political scene in Iran of any secular democratic elements and in fact helped and supported the religious establishment to further secure his own position, even until almost the end he thought religious establishment was on his side against the imaginary communist enemy. For the sake of argument here let’s agree the “Left” (which was a romantic idea rather than a realistic force) was the foot soldiers in the revolt against the Shah, but the fact still remains that the Shah himself bankrolled and collaborated in the rise of Islamist who are in power today. We can stick our heads in sand and not see our own role in the events that has changed a nation for the worst.

Mongoloid?

People take criticism in different ways. I wish you had taken it more gracefully. Writing a blog on history, historical events, or historical figures should not be done nonchalantly and by amatures. If all you can offer about the last dynasty of our nation can be summarized into a simple third-grader question under a picture, then at least a proper format is due in order to compensate for its meager substance. I still have no ill will against you when I advise: Read a little, learn a little. It's a shame that you can not write in your mother tongue properly and try to fake being a pundit.

If my body dies, let my body die, but do not let my country die.

Mr. Genghis, your comments reminds me of Molla Loghati

Do you remember that Farsi proverb? ;-) My Mongol... friend,  spelling in Farsi is not the issue here, your comprehension of the subject at hand is! SUCH A WASTE OF ENERGY........Oy Vey!

PS. WOW, I didn't know it’s possible that all of you can think and talk in a perfect unison :o) but like a broken record, is that all you have to offer?????

Divaneh

"It's just so clear that Shah was instrumental in the ascension of Akunds into power."

Based on the picture above and the 10 minute Milani interview, lets assume that the shah was instrumental....

But it does beg the question as to where were the "secular" & "leftist" opposition who were so crushed that the field was open for the clergy?

With the exception of Bakhtiar & Dr Sadighi (who were equally "crushed"), they were all in competition as to who could get to Najaf & Paris first to "baiyat" with ayatollah Gandhi.

No Divaneh, what is "just so clear" is that the Shah had to deal with a deeply religious and superstitious population, and a reactionary & backward clergy who had an enduring ability to mobilise the masses. If the Shah had dealt with the clergy in the same manner that Reza Shah dealt with them, would you and Dr Milani whose argument is based on this premise, approve?

Thrown in to this mix, you add the followers of Dr Mossadegh (who would be turning in his grave by the actions of his followers), whose only reason for existence was to oppose the shah no matter what the national interest to exact revenge for "28 mordad" plus the left that was beholden to Soviet, Chinese, Lybian, Syrian, East German governments & trained by the PLO, you will get the instruments that led to the "ascension of Akunds into power."

Savage?

You weren't the target of my comments. Rather, I was speaking about the author of this particular blog. 

I'm sure you are learned enough in Persian to find numerous spelling and grammatical errors in as short a blog as the abovementioned. I have no qualms with you and I will overlook your personal attack this time. However, people might have other ideas about whom to go with when the choice is between a foreign patriot, a divaneh, and a khar. 

If my body dies, let my body die, but do not let my country die.

من چگونه میبینم؟ فرم درسته "سجده سلطنتی"!

Everything is sacred

Few words from Bride's mom

People who have a slave mentality are always ready to exhibit that in everything that they do. An example is someone who chooses a blood sucking figure such as Genghis for his avatar. I am sure the late Shah would have been very embarrassed of such support.

And what has been your contribution savage?

Dear Farah Rusta

Once, in the context of another of your remarks to an anti-Shah poster, you mentioned that those who are anti-Shah should be grateful for His Majesty's inaction in saving his own regime. 

I completely agree with you, and this blog is an example of same. They would never have seen the light of the West where they can exercise their own freedoms, such as writing blogs in their supposed mother tongue, Persian, complete with spelling errors and lacking cohesiveness, even when the post is limited to a few lines under a picture. The best advice to these people is to hit the books, read something and learn something before they start posturing as political pundits. 

If my body dies, let my body die, but do not let my country die.

Thanks Khar

I watched the video in your link and am disappointed that some commentators here have chosen to resort to character assassination instead of discussing the content of his message. It's just so clear that Shah was instrumental in the ascension of Akhonds to power.

You are a fast learner

I am impressed master bad luck. Your last comment is very different to your previous mistake ridden comments.

Now go and tell the person who wrote your last comment that the use of the word "glitch" instead of "mistake" is very acceptable and it is normally used to imply that a mistake was insignificant. This is a very common practice in English. For example a “Marketing campaign that bombards people with advertisements” is not a military matter and advertisements will not explode.

Now go and explain your "Namak Nashnas people" theory to some illiterates of your own calibre.

Divaneh e Aghel Jaan ..

Thanks pal! It's every Iranian's right, if not duty, to question the past! Nothing sacred especially the subject of this blog.

Dear Khar

During Pahlavi, structuring the society around a central government could only be achieved by two means, first, the army, second, the mosques, which were acting as de facto 'civil society'. Thinking that the copy cat of parliamentarian system could have any functionality except showing off a 'modern' appearance is just plain stupid. The parliamentarian circus could only be sustained as a 'show'. Either it was handpicked by Reza Shah and Mohamad Reza Shah and well under their control, or it was 'elected' by different regional feudal factions, herding people to polling stations, which by the way, only occurred during WWII under occupation of foreign armies which were de facto rulers of the country and that's why this 'democratic' parliamentarian circus was allowed by Western occupiers which was more presentable to their Western taste and had no effective power whatsoever anyway. We then saw when it attempted to gain real power what kind of fractured country it left behind.

In this context, whether the Shah was a superstitious religious type or a modern free spirit cosmopolitan type or whatever, is completely irrelevant. It wasn't he who decided Akhoonds manage people 'civil' affairs. It was the people. He just could play with the cards that people was giving to him.

This is not the whole story, but the main story. Every other story should be looked at, not keeping out of sight the main story.

Master bad luck

I think you need to show a little of your own skills and knowledge. If you do not have it, then just read and learn.

Shazdeh Jaan

He may not have prayed front of the camera for the public consumption as much he should of, but he cleared the political scene for the clergy by silencing any and all democratic voice and pumped allot of money and support to the religious establishment. At the end he himself was the victim of his own actions, at the end the Masjids he built and the clergy he supported were the only alternatives to his absolute power. I recommend the following analysis by Abbas Milani on the subject, facts are very interesting.

Abbas Milani:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze5l_zryJOY&feature=related

You are so kind 13th Legion

Pleased to meet you and keep up your good work.

FR

Dear Farah

I told you already, I am not the one who has claimed that other people should not post a blog without a spelling mistake. I showed your new devotee his/her own faults. I can make mistakes if I wish, although you have to work hard to find minor glitches.

I am sorry that you have missed the main point of this blog but there are people who seek the truth and there are those who have their head in the sand. You don't belong to the first group.

Milani's Maoist past is still talking

OK let's be a little serious about this topic that our friend Khar seems to have discovered lately!

The amusing part of his selective evidence is bringing Milani into the debate as a key witness. While I have high regards for Milani's work as far as researching the Pahlavi era based on Anglo-American documents is concerned, his subsequent analyses of his findings remain to be his weakest point. 

Milani and most of the collective intellectuals of the left are still in the throws of their confused and misguided loyalties to their leftist past. They can never bring themselves to forgive the Shah for never taking them half as seriously as the religious dissidents and activists. The leftist, in their blind zeal, completely ignored and undermined the potent and powerful influence of religion on the populace and they paid a very high price for their ignorance. They were used as the foot soldiers of the revolt against the Shah and shortly after they were no longer needed, they were annihilated. No wonder Milani and his likes are still lamenting their grand folly.

FR

Dear Ms. Rusta, ----------------(---@

You are a true Persian Cat, sharp and witty!

 Just the right dose of medicine our little Malijack needed today ;)

Your new admirer.

X III

"Your last sentence is not as good as mine neither."!!!

LOL

Divaneh jaan oomadi dorostesh koni kharaabtaresh kardi aziz LOL again.

You mean:  Your last sentence is not as good as mine either.

OK OK, let us call a truce. But I didn't need to work hard to find you faults, you have done the hard work for me better than I ever could :))

FR

Dear Farah

I see that you are now trying your hand at medicine. I did not claim to be the English master. It was you and your new devotee the master bad luck who completely lost the point of this blog.

Let’s face it, you have worked hard to find a couple of minor mistakes. Your last two cases are not valid and Shah has been used as a short name instead of Mohammad Reza Shah. Your last sentence is not as good as mine neither.

And you know what Farah? After you told me that the coup of 28 mordad was not a coup, I decided not to waste time with people in denial anymore.

More pearls

More pearls from master bad luck.

Noon of us: Not to be mistaken by "none of us". It is just the opposite of "Night of us".

mozoe khayli pichideh tar az in harfast: A new English slang meaning "I don't know what I am talking about".

I would just ad: means "I want to place an advertisement" in common dialect.

every “body” needs an “Ass”: Means "Everybody needs an ass". I disagree and think that those who have a car, do not need an ass. However if this is a reference to arse, then it is right. It would be very difficult to go to the toilet without one, and one possibly would not live long neither.

Dear Khar, sorry that I have posted another comment not related to the main subject, but people like master bad luck need some education.

I completely agree with you that Shah was too fearful of akhonds and that fear spelled his end.

به نام پروردگار بخشنده

به نام پروردگار بخشنده، شکرت که ما تونستیم با این مسلمون‌های عقب افتاده جلوی چپی‌ها و حزب ملی‌ها و غیره و غیره رو بگیریم.  فقط خودت و من میدونیم که این آخوندها به جایی نمیرسن.  همین دلشون خوشه براشون مسجد درست کنیم.  حیف که تنها عیب من اینست که از همهٔ این ایرانی‌های غزمیت پیشرفته‌ترم وگرنه تو اینجا بودی و به من دعا میکردی.  شوخی‌ بود خدا جان.  یک نقشه دارم که ایران را یک روزه هزار و دویست سال جلو بندازم.  امشب توی خوابم برات تعریف می‌کنم.  فعلا خودت را نگهدار.  آمین.

Divaneh jan Salam!!

I wish you hadn't posted your last comment because each time that I see someone being criticized for their English/Persian usage I get the urge to intercede. So allow me to give you a little taste of your own medicine:

"a picture worth a thousand words". You surely mean: a picture is worth a thousand words.
" ... who is bursting with information and after advising you on correct spelling and grammar, have proceeded to show you ... ". You mean: 

... who is bursting with information and after advising you on correct spelling and grammar, has proceeded to show you...

"It also mean that spells is not at home." I am sure you mean: It also means that spells is not (at) home.

"I never knew Shah had a problem with being Muslim...". Surely you mean to say:  I never knew the Shah had a problem with being Muslim (you don't mean just any Shah but the Shah!)

and finally instead of putting it like this: "I hope the bad luck master continues with his mission of educating everyone on IC." it is better English to put it like this:

I hope the bad luck master continues with his mission to educate everyone on IC.

Well, Divaneh jaan , what was that proverb about the people in glass houses?

Now, your turn :)

FR

خر شانس عزیز

جلو دوربین، اگه بیشتر از این نمازا میخوند و کمتر بسلامتی جیمی کارتر شامپاین میزد، وضعمون و وضعشون بهتر بود.

Divaneh

you are the perfect example of the “cultural handicap” I was talking about; I would just ad “Bi Kar” and “dalghak” to the list.

And yes, to the superstitious dahati likes of you the # 13 may sound as bad luck, but then again you would not know any better dalghak jaan. lol

You are indeed the “Malijack” of the IC darbar, well I guess every “body” needs an “Ass”  ;)

Listen to Bad Luck Legion

Dear Khar, a picture worth a thousand words and that is certainly true about this picture. I see that for some people substance comes second to the form. These include the bad luck legion, our new knowledge tree who is bursting with information and after advising you on correct spelling and grammar, have proceeded to show you how it should be done in action. Now thanks to his/her masterpiece, the English language has been enriched with a few new words and new grammatical rules. A selection of the spelling master's comments are shown in bold for the benefit of the students of modern languages.

spells is out: This is the new form of spells it out. It also mean that spells is not at home.

the man was a Muslim and he never denied it and had a problem with : I never knew Shah had a problem with being Muslim but I know now.

he was way ahead of his time and people and despite all the services he and his father provide for the country: I always thought different tenses in English were useless and now thanks to master bad luck we can ignore them.

did not disserve him: From now on the word disserve can be used instead of deserve. I used to think not serving someone meant you didn’t deserve the person, but I was wrong.

on the contrarily: A new proverb to replace "on the contrary" and may come useful if you are writing a poem about piccalilli.

un grateful: This is the same as Ungrateful and can be used to help you make the necessary number of words in an essay when you are short of a few.

back ward: ditto

I hope the bad luck master continues with his mission of educating everyone on IC.

Dear Khar,

Dear Khar,

Please don’t feel offended by spelling علیحضرت vsالاحضرت

Did not mean to attack you, noon of us are masters in spelling be it in Farsi or English.I just think that as a nation/culture our problems run much deeper than such topics.

On one hand we have a long list of unresolved problems within our culture “cultural handicaps” that contributes to the position we are in today and on the other hand we have OIL and will always be a subject and target for outside manipulation and will **uked with by western powers no matter what type of government is in power in Iran.

It’s just that ‘mozoe khayli pichideh tar az in harfast…………..

13th Legion and others, علیحضرت vsالاحضرت

that is not the subject but if you insist; Apparently I'm not alone in spelling it that way, I refer you to Google search and even Mrs. Farah Diba’s Facebook site. ;-)

Also refer to my first comment in this blog.

Doostam Samsam

My intent on this blog wasn't to question the rights of individuals to have religion or not. My point is that the Men of Power using religion to their political gain. Shah also had used it and even spread it. One small example is that the number of masjids in every Iranian city increased by 7 folds between 1341 to 1353 and at the end these masiids were used by clergy to bring him down from power because there was no other democratic alternative in place in Iran. Please watch the following video it shows the cause of religion capturing the political scene in Iran, the facts are interesting.

Abbas Milani:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze5l_zryJOY&feature=related

Khar

1-      To begin with as Ms. Rusta points out, if you want to write articles and post them on public sites first learn how to spell the name or title that is sensitive to the subject to avoid literally living up to your name.

2-      As the name spells is out “Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi” it’s a Muslim name and the man was a Muslim and he never denied it and had a problem with it! His only sin may have been that he was way ahead of his time and people and despite all the services he and his father provide for the country his people ended up being nothing but a “namak nashnas” nation that really did not disserve him and  on the contrarily this has everything to do with your and my parents and grandparents who  as a majority still remain to be “namak nashnas”  we are nothing but a bunch of self centered, highly opinionated un grateful and “alaki khosh” nation  with zero unity that has only learned to appear modernized and educated on the outside ( for show) but for the most part “ not to generalize” deep within our minds and the way we think we have still remained to be a bunch of back ward khar, olagh and dahati nation and culture.

 So what difference does it really make if the Shah was really secular or if he was suffering from multiple personalities when it came to religion and secularism?? It’s like Ms. Rusta points out, he who against his personal faith, brought us the most secular-structured administration we have ever had in our 2500 years and at the end we are “2 ghort o neem baghi” and continue to have learned NOTHING from history.

 I think as a nation we should look at India and how far they have come in the past 100 years and be ashamed.

  I’m so sick of this Kiani dream crap, we had it as Kiani as it was going to get!