Secular Democracy for Iran

Any volunteers for defending Islam here?

We seem to have a good number of PRO ISLAMIC Republic people on I.C. They are always there defending IR's every action and aspect.

I want to hear from those ISLAMIC republic supporters to after all show some support for what the ISLAMIC republic is based on ie Islam.

Can some one shed some light here and have a go defending Islam and what was said in the above clips? 

If I was a devout supporter of say "Zoroastrian Republic of Iran, " surley I should then be able to defend Zoroaster and Zoroastrian teachings on all accounts. Or are we saying one can pick and choose? 

Any takers, I really would like to see someone do that with regards to the above clips please?

Targol

You wrote >> Not to forget that some very thoughful Iranian philosophers and thinkers really do believe that our problem is not just Islam, but our "religious" mode of thinking and living, DIN-PENDARY & DIN-KHOEIY. Meaningthat: even if we get rid of IR today, with the menatlity we have at the moment we could turn even a secular, or even a leftist, or even a modern mode of thought into a religious mode of thinking. <<Bingo.

Amen Iranfirst

 Islam is the bastardization of Religion,a False Prophet indeed.It must be embarassing to see exiles prove the IRI correct with their GOD-DAMNED (TRUE MEANING) insults towards God and other people's beliefs.It's not only disrespectful to compare other Religions to Islam,it's just plain IGNORANT.

But as the song says 'Heaven is for Heroes and HELL IS FULL OF FOOLS".

Islam is NOT like other religions

Dear Khar thank you for your post. I have seen some people say that Islam is just another religion. Barbaric Islam is NOT like other religions and that is why it should be exposed .

unlike other religions Islam is multi
dimensional.  All other religions have one dimension or at least one
main dimension. It is the vertical line that unites man with God.

Islam has a width and a depth that are absent in other religions. They are its social and political dimensions.   

The social and political dimensions of Islam are defined by the
Sharia law. Its social dimension regulates every aspect of human
relations, e.g. the relationship between husband and wife. Under the
Islamic social law, a husband has the right to beat his wife if he fears
she is being uppity. He can divorce her at will and in absentia. To him
belong the children. He can marry as many women as he pleased. The four
wives limitation is a misunderstanding of the Quranic verse, or perhaps
a well intentioned effort of Muslims to put a limit to the number of
wives.

The Shaira law does not apply only to Muslims, but also it regulates
the rights of the non-Muslims.  The non-Muslims in Muslim majority
countries must be reduced into dhimmis, subdued and humiliated and they
should pay a penalty tax to the Muslim state, as high as 50% of their
income.

Under the Sharia, women’s rights are half of the rights of men. They
are deemed to be deficient in intelligence and their testimony in court
is worth half of that of men.

Under the Sharia, homosexuals must be killed; adulterers must be
stoned to death, even if they are victims of rape. If a raped woman
can’t bring four males witnesses to testifying that they saw the rape
happening, her testimony against her assailant is not admissible in the
court. However, if she gets pregnant as the result of the rape, her
pregnancy can be used as evidence that she has had sex out of wedlock
and according to the Sharia she should be stoned.  

The political dimension of Islam is its most important dimension.
Without it Islam ceases to exist.  The foremost objective of Islam is NOT religious, but political. The goal is to “reclaim” the earth and on
it establish Allah’s domain.  The means to do that, according to the
teachings of the Quran and the examples set by Muhammad, are through
raid and terror. The objective of Islam is not to convert everyone, but
to make the Sharia law dominant.  Even Islamic countries that are not
Sharia compliant are legitimate targets of islamic terrorism.

Under the Sharia, people of Book can still keep their faiths and
practice their religion, as long as it is done privately and they don’t
make a show of it.  They are of course not allowed to preach their faith
to others, except to their own children.

A Muslim is not just a believer, but also a member of the umma and a
subject of the universal Islamic state. Consequently, leaving Islam is
regarded as betrayal to the state and a high treason. Apostates should
therefore be put to death.

Under these three dimensions noting is left to the individual. Every
aspect of the life of a believer is regulated by the Sharia law. The
Sharia determines what he should eat and drink and what he should not.
When is he allowed to eat and when he is not. What should he wear and
what he should not. How should he shave, bathe, brush his teeth, clean
his private parts after answering the call of nature, with what foot to
enter the toilet, what to say upon entering the toilet and on which fool
to put most of his weight while defecating.   

As Muslims will tell you, Islam is not a religion. It is a way of
life. It is a totalitarian system that dominates every aspect of one’s
life.  Even the believers’ thoughts are not theirs. The control is
absolute.  

These three dimensions are indivisible. They are the trinity of Islam. Islam cannot exist without either one of them.

.....

Hi! DA,

     I don't understand why people have a lot of kids that they can't support them.....I don't dare to ask them.....I am too embarrassed to ask......I tried to think of an answer.....I was wondering if they can't afford contraceptives or they can't control themselves.....in the 2nd video......I wanted to blame the parents more than blaming the religion......it is very cruel for parents to give away their kids.....How can they do that?

Please take care!

Majid jan, this is a pretty complex issue

and I don't mean to be dipolomatic either. A writer*  had observed that :

"There are as many interpretations of a religion as there are adherents of it."

So in a sense it all comes down to our preceptions of the ideas and how we implement them. In Iran we have had a particularly nasty experience with Islam in the past 1400 years. Last 150 has been atrocious, past 30 just hellish. 

Yet it would be very inaccurate and incorrect if we blame all of this only at Islam, Iranian society and culture from Sassanian to Safavieh to Pahlavi directly or indirectly created the 'proper' conditions for Islam to become the monstrosity that it has become In Iran today.

Not to forget that some very thoughful Iranian philosophers and thinkers really do believe that our problem is not just Islam, but our "religious" mode of thinking and living, DIN-PENDARY & DIN-KHOEIY. Meaningthat: even if we get rid of IR today, with the menatlity we have at the moment we could turn even a secular, or even a leftist, or even a modern mode of thought into a religious mode of thinking.

Now, that is a big problem, sorry for the long winded response, and good night 

* Antonio Gramsci

Yolanda ;)

what were these dickheads doing producing over 5 childre, inticed by short-term state provisions, they can't provide for to prostitution in the first place?(The old excuse of old age pension doesn't work anymore...)

They make me sick and as of today, I shall never ever do anything for them. I mean it. NEVER!

" Thank god for botox; my facial expressions are wearing rather thin...."

اسلام به ذات خود ندارد عیبی

......

Hi DA,

     I heard some of young Iranian girls got shipped off to other countries to marry older guys........it is super sad that sometimes girls have no control over their own destiny......not sure if the UN Women's Committee can do something about it! The vulnerable young kids need protection!

I think kidney is way more important than a marriage party! I won't give up my kidney for that!

Please take care!

Yolanda , I'm sick of these people

They breed like f'ing rats, then go around begging to sell their kidneys for a fourth marriage party. ...

" Thank god for botox; my facial expressions are wearing rather thin...."

Tiger Lily seems right, but I'm not sure, as it sounds like pleb Persian....

.....

Thank you for your blog......the 2nd video is sad.....the parents gave away their young daughter.....and then turned around blaming the guy for the abuse......I guess it is because of poverty, so they gave away (sold) their kid for $$$.....they were willing to give away their kid, apparently they trusted the guy.....I think in this case it is worse than letting Michael Jackson babysit your daughter.......

according to Wikipedia, the marriageable age in Iran is 16 for girls....

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriageable_age

..but I watched a video on IC, this Iranian girl married a 22 year old guy at age of 12.....apparently the law is not strictly observed over there.....In Saudi Arabia and Yemen, it is worse, there is not age limit for girls to get married.......now Saudi Arabia has a seat in UN women's committee, I hope other member countries will push KSA and Yemen to ban child brides!

Thanks for your blog!

حلق

هلقو دلقو جلق

but a religiously superstitious repulsive retard to the core

Skinner wouldn't even have had (to bother with) a field day....

" Thank god for botox; my facial expressions are wearing rather thin...."

اصلا به من چه. آدم میکشتین، الانم میکشین...

بعدش تشریف میارین میگین: باه باه چه آبگوشیت، چه شعله زردی

Shazdeh

I have the same experiences in a different order.

1) As a kid I was were you were.

2) As a younger  adult I thought it was the implementation that was the problem.

3) As a mature adult I think it is inherent. I mean people learn by example. Mohammad's life is a very poor example for people. It sets you on the wrong path right from the beginning.

Of Shahs and Mullahs

In my opinion Shah was grossly misinformed about the political leaning of  Qum's Grand Ayatollahs and seminaries. I know that Pakravan's SAVAK and that of Nassiri assured Him of prevalence of G.A. Boroujerdi's school of thought, depicting Khomeini as an outcast.

His Majesty's blind reliance on the American classification of the world affairs allowed him to use Islam/Shia as a shield against of the menace of the Communist block, without being a devout Muslim, himself.  

Never increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything.

اسلام به ذات خود ندارد عیبی - هر عیب که هست، در مسلمانی ماست

As kids, we were thought that Islam was perfect and that there was nothing wrong with it, using simple verses like above.

As a young adult, I came to think of Islam as the worst faith ever, because I was tormented by its insanity for a decade. 

As a not-so-young-adult-anymore, I believe that Islam is as good and as bad as many other religions ... the important thing is to expose it for what it is and what it is not, for two reasons:

1. So that people don't worship it like a bunch of terrorrist zombies!

2. So other people don't demonize it, as the sole source of this world's problems! 

Thanks Mr. President, for this expose - God bless.

Rafigh aziz jenab Khar, you're so right

and Golsorkhi's defense RIP citing Hossain as his path to socialism, is probably the most outstanding instance, but definitely not the only one. Belive it or not there was actually a handful on the left that had a coherent critique of all this.

//www.nazmnovin.com/Archives.html

The only problem was that once you're on the run to save your life, there really isn't any time for sober analysis and discussion.

Not to make this a long reply but, according to at least Aramesh Dostar ( and he's not the only one) the roots of our religiousness ( he calls it DIN-KHOEY, or DIN-PENDARY, not sure how to translate them into English) goes way back before Islam. Something to think about.

Houshang Khan

Your point is well taken, Shah did a lot to for religion in Iran due to the fact that he thought the religious establishment (Shia Clergy)were his allies, he cleared Iran's political scene of any secular, democratic elements and groups. During his reigns he had the most Masjids build in Iran, we had one on every street corner. At the end these Masjid were instrumental to bring him down and replace him with worst kind of government, the theocrocy.

But my reference was mainly to the fact that even MOST of our intellectuals (left and center) before 1979 were not liberated from religion and were under it spell especially the Shiaism. As an example I refer you to Khsrow Golsorkhi's defense at the military court regarding his deep respect for Ali and Hossain the Shia saints.

So as you can see my friend we all did our part knowingly or unknowingly to bring back the Pure Mohammadian Islam out of the History's Ghabrestaan.

Ostad Khar besiar mohtaram

If you could refresh my memory as to who was teaching all those classes of " Talimat Mazhabi" in every school and high school in Iran, monarchy or the left?

I'm sure you recall Sepah Danesh, and how they were talking about adding  Sepah Mazhab to make sure even the country side doesn't get left out of all these religious goodies.

At least Shamlo, Rahimi, Kazemieh had some moral ground. 

Hoshang

Well said and on all accounts 

Indeed, the Shah like an idiot comes up with Raztakhiz. Even my right wing father was furious. Specially about the bit on "here is your passport; leave!". Well people didn't like it. And the *Shah* left.

BBC did promote Khomeini. One more reason to *never* trust BBC. And to always be suspicious of Britain.

We do need to learn. Actually I think we need to do all of the things you mentioned: read; weep; learn and then take action and hopefully avoid mistakes of our past.

Rafigh Comrade

First, from the perspective of the Left (Eslam Zadeh) before 1979 Islam was revolutionary and progressive. Second, again, from the perspective of the Left (too Sari Khordeh) from 79-2001 Islam is suffering from multiple personality, half progressive half repressive and anti humanity. Third, once again, from the Left perspective (lost and no-where to be found) Islam is totally Satanic and repressive and is terrorist. Yet still doesn't know that "Islam" is whithin..........

I should not tell you this, you were there yourself through it all like the rest of us.

As the old Iranian saying goes: Yek Soozan be Khodet Bezan, Yek Javaal Dooz be Digaraan! 

&&&

Hi

My boyfrnd likz me bein the way I am

Virgin G.

A not so virgin response!

We were all so busy leaving Iran and Hezbe Rastakhiz ( remember Shah's speech inaugurating  Rastakhiz party " if you don't like it you could leave"), or staying inside and figthing the monarchy, no one really paid any serious attention to any of this garbage.

Around the time that Khomeini bagan to become a "national figure" thanks to BBC and the rest, there were a handful of people like Shamlo, Rahimi, Islam Kazemieh and others that began questioning the religious forces, but were obviously no match for the deluge in the making.

And now after 31 years,....read and weep. Or learn from mistakes and overthrow Islamic Republic. The choice is ours.

A (not so)Virgin Question

Where were all these exposing materials about the kinky nature of Islam, before 1979/2001 timeline? Stashed in oil wells?

Never increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything.