Be very afraid: Islam's plan for you, part II

Nuts!

You are completely nuts! Did Ali milk goats, too? He was the biggest killer of Iranians. He hated Iranians and ordered the killing of many Iranians. You are nuts, just nuts. This is the sort of lies arabs have sold the Iranian people so now they find Ali as the symbol of whatever.

Re: Zion

I told you that KS and you are really great interpreters of Quran!!!!!!!!!!
Give me a break! Quran does not take side of Moslems. It has harsher laws nor Moslems far far more than what it says about FEW Jews and Christians who had planned to eradicate Islam. Quran sides with those who believe in God, wheter they are Moslems or any other religion members and cares for the non-believers.

Moslems have lived side by side to Jews, Christians and others for hundreds of years peacefully, until some corrupt rulers have come around on either side and organized people to serve their purpose. They are neither Jews, Christians nor Moslems.

Did you know that Ali (the 1st Imam of Shia) worked in a farm for a Jew after prophet died for so many years? What does that tell you. That tells me they had no arrogance and bigotry. People like you who beat on the drum of hatred, arrogance and bigotry are the cause of agony for mankind.

Peace;

So if you've read my posts and what you just wrote is your

platform on the topic, where is it that you think we disagree? I've come out over and over again on all the violent aspects of Islam you mention.  Where do you think we disagree?  And why do you think I'm shouting? I was quite calm when I wrote the second post to you.  I was upset when I wrote the first one, granted, but I used no foul language and you accused me of it based on something I wrote to someone at the extreme end of the spectrum from you....why do you think I was shouting in the last post?

All I recommend is that people like you make a scrupulous distinction in your discourse between Islam and Islamicism if you ever hope to see a democratic Iran.  Target the IRI and leave Islam alone and the IRI will die out like the dinosaurs they are and Islam will flower like a rose, dropping, like I said, petals of converts everywhere, who will also be left to flourish. I undertand there are sizable underground movements of Mazdaists and Buddhists in Iran...they too will flourish...IF you target Islamicism and stop threatening the Islamic identity of untold millions of young Iranians.

That's my entire discourse in a nutshell.  I never cut and paste. Ever.  I file nothing and never return to my old posts. It's just that my discourse is so simple, of course I repeat myself.  It isn't rocket science, and you seem to agree with me. So, again, where do you see our disagreement, to such an extent that you called me an honorary Muslim when you don't see yourself that way?

I am not deaf

and you are not mute.... although, as loud as you shout your message, a whole nation might lose their ear drums. I have heard you over and over in every post you make (many of which looks like copy-and-paste). The point is that you are so consumed by your own thoughts that have hard time seeing any other view point.

Being a realist I never imagined a non-islamic Iran. There is no bashing of Islam per se. No-one is against a tolerant Islam. An Islam who treats women like human and not second class citizens. An Islam who respects the life of gays, Bahaii's, Jews or any other rehigion. An Islam who is open to prgress and accepts realities of life.

So, please, stop patronizing and listen to what others say.

Criticizing violence, condemning suicide bombing, condemning stoning of women, condemning hanging of gays,... is not bashing Islam. It is statement of fact that: today's fundamentalist muslims are violent and hateful and have no respect for life based on their interpretation of Islam.

I still respect you for your sea of knowledge and extreme sensitivity.

My foul language...

which I took care to use asterisks with, was directed at someone who accused me of being a covert Muslim HATER after countless hours I've spent here defending Islam.  I did not use any foul language in my post to you.

I did get emotional, though, and it's my right to do so. I don't have to pretend not to be upset. I think it's well-known (by most) that I'm not much of a hypocrite. And well...I'm upset...

You're just NOT understanding me at all.  I have NEVER defended the IRI, or Wahabbism, or similar totalitarian versions of Islam.  I'm the one who coined the phrase, mind you, The Islamic Repugnance of Iran, and Cheney/Khameini-Siamese twins separated at birth, now happily reunited.  And I'm sure you know I DON'T like Cheney.  I don't condone ANYONE's violence. I'm a pacifist. In the tradition of Martin Luther King Jr. and Gandhi.  I'm not an apolgist.  I have NEVER apologized for the violent or totalitarian aspects of Islamicism. or of Irslam. Not once. Not for five seconds.

All I'm saying is you don't have it in your power to eradicate Islam. So VALIDATE the people who practice it by saying it's okay for them to have that identity.  Then they will TRUST you and you can EASILY lead them to a BRIGHT, BRILLIANT, DANCING Islam.  In Iran for sure....I'm SURE of it....in ONE generation, you'll have a hijabless, women's lib, sharia-less parliamentary secular democracy with a BRILLIANT, VIBRANT progressive Islam...as well as converts to Mazdaism, Buddhism, Christianity and atheism...EMBRACED by those progressive Muslims.

JUST tell them it's OKAY to be a Muslim and together you and they will forge a Persian Islam that IS like Hafez, that IS like the Abassid scholars.  If you keep bad-mouthing Islam, you will have this disgusting travesty of every human value that is the IRI for the forseeable future, because you make ordinary Muslims AFRAID of you and you polarize them into the arms of these despicable totalitarian pigs.

why can't you hear me? Am I mute or are you deaf?  Why can't you hear me?  What are you AFRAID of that you can't hear me?  Are you as afraid of losing your IDENTITY as anti-Islamic as THEY are afraid of losing their identity as Muslims?

Natars, Bijanam, natars.....

Cool down ....Rosie....

I never intended to offend you and I am sorry if you took it that way. In spite of your outrage and foul language I still insist that Islam AS IS PRACTICED today by FUNDAMENTALISTS (not the youth in Tehran or anywhere else) is a doctorine of hate and destruction for some blind ideals. I have no hatred for any religion as I believe all religions preach basically the same principals (in my opinion). It is the practice and interpretation of those religions that lead to differences.
Go ahead and shout about your love of Hafez and sufism, but none is pacticed in recent days. Why is criticizing violence and hatred equivalent to Polarizing people in your vocabulary?
Noone has condemned Islam as practiced by many who respect life and love peace. The problem is that these days you only see or hear disrespect for life by those who practice Islam and those who find a reason to condone their violence.

I would be proud to be a Muslim in the tradition of Hafez and

Rumi, or in the tradition of the Abassid scholars of al-Andaluz.  I would not be proud to be a Muslim who believed in Sharia law or who was forced to live in such a country. I would not EVEN be proud of living somewhere where hijab was forced, rather than voluntary.

I have said time and again that Islam's glory days have not been recent. However Islam, like any religion, remains a word which can embrace MANY things.Shirin Ebadi considers herself Muslim and does NOT wear hijab outside of th IRI.  I have NO problem with her Islam.

If YOU PEOPLE would stop fearing Islam so, and POLARIZING Muslims against you, and therefore into the arms of unscrupulous totalitarians, you would see a NEW Islam. You WOULD. We live in a global village, people yearn for modernity,those who choose to define themselves as Muslims would "catch up" very quickly to the better values of the Secular Enlightenment (and hopefully avoid the worse...).  YOu would see, it WOULDN'T take long.

I've said it OVER and OVER and OVER again....I'm getting tired....contrary to expectations of the statisticians, relligion has INCREASED rather than decreased  WORLD-WIDE in recent years. MANY people simply WANT to be identified with a WORD for a religion and with certain BASIC practices.  ISLAM has FIVE PILLARS. You observe them, you have the RIGHT to call yourself a Muslim.  You DON"T have to accept hijab or sharia or ANY of those things.

WHY CAN'T YOU LEAVE THESE PEOPLE ALONE? They WANT to have a religion and they were born Muslim so they identify with it.  ALL YOU'RE DOING IS MAKING THINGS WORSE.  The vast majority of Muslims in Iran are youth, because the population is so overwhelmingly young, and from what I understand, outside of the MOST cosmopolitan sectors (and sometimes even in them) THESE PEOPLE WANT TO BE MODERN AND THEY WANT TO BE MUSLIM.

SO WHY DON'T YOU LET THEM. Tell them it's OKAY, tell them they're OKAY, give them Shirin Ebadi, give them Queen Nor of Jordan, give them Benazir, as a model, and you'll see...how quickly...they grow a NEW ISLAM.  For god's sake, do you think most of them REALLY relish execution by hydraulic crane. What CONTEMPT do you hold your countrymen in.  I Know, I know about the ones who gleefully photograph the exectuions.  What about ALL the ones who don't, ALL the ones who RUSHED to the defense of Ali Mahin Torabi.  Do you think MANY of them weren't practicing Muslims?

Islam is practiced the way it is today by the GOVERNMENT and the WORST lumpen elements of the IRI. What about how it could be practiced TOMORROW if you would just LEAVE THESE PEOPLE'S RELIGION ALONE.  LEAVE ISLAM ALONE AND FOCUS ON ISLAMACIS. LEAVE ISLAM ALONE AND FOCUS ON ISLAMIMICISM.  I will say it until I BURST.

I'm NOT a Muslim.   I'm NOT an honorary Muslim. My spirituality IS informed by Sufism to some extent, mostly Attar, but I DON'T consider myself in ANY way a Muslim.  But I would MUCH RATHER be an honorary Muslim than a covert Muslim haterr like that excuse me piece of shit just accused me of on this....so, in this context, Bijanam, thank you for your categorization of me. I'll be an  honorary Muslim for today.

The honorary muslim,.. Rosie

As I stated in my previous posts (on different threads) I respect Rosie's love of humanity but can never align myself with her tolerance and submission to idealism.
How can someone observe suicide (more accurately, homocide) bombing day in and day out in the name of Allah and say that it is for PEACE?.
How can you teach your child, from day one, to hate some group and say you are practicing Islam? And yet call it for peace.
That's right Islam means peace literally but not as it is practiced today.
You can discount KS's comments or ignore his retorics, but fact is fact. Islam as is practiced by fundamentalists in Iran or anywhere else is nothing but doctorine of hate and destruction in the name of allah.

TO Da World

You ask: 

But I ask you Rosie, do you support him, because you....really like his ignorance and hates about Islam and Muslim?

 I reply:  Read up my comments 1) on KS's first Islam and second blog and 2) on the current Ahmadinejad/Ashura photo essay.  Read UP from the bottom.  My comments are easy to find because I'm REGISTERED and have my own AVATAR (picture).

 If that doesn't satisfy you, register yourself and track my posts.  Track me willy-nilly, regardless of the topic of the thread.  Track me and READ me to see my thoughts on Islam.

And if you're not willing to, and yet have the audacity to SLEEP at night after making such an accusation, after all the work I have done on this site TIRELESSLY to stop Islam-bashing, may I say to you, with utmost love, something I NEVER say, EVER, because I"m AGAINST profanity on this site because it gets out of control.  But this once, just this once, in anticipation of your LAZINESS and unwillingness to find out what I'm about before you make these accusations, I heartily urge you to:

Go f*** yourself. 

Now flag me.  Go REGISTER, then FLAG me.  "Slay me with flagons, comfort me with apples, for I am sick with love..." Song of Songs, attributed to King Solomon.  Again, go f*** yourself.  You talk about "distorting the truth..."  One more time...go f*** yourself.  Flag me.

Shut up Islamists

Xerxes, we know it is you and maybe one or two of your buddies who have written all the crap, to vo doostat in jafangyato minvisin, the insults to Jews and Zartoshti and the sher o ver. If KS is so wrong and worthless, then SHUT UP and GET LOST and stop posting the shit in your head on this site. Boro gooreto gom kon eslamie kasif.

Kouroush sassanian " You DISTORT the TRUTH"

I must ignore you(Kourosh Sassanian),because everything you write is DUMB,STUPID and Islam and Muslim hated.

You are confusing me,one day you say, you are Muslim,another day you say you are Christian and next day you are Zartoshti.....????????!!!!!!!

But I ask everyone who read this comment /

How could you people read and respond to a old man who CONFUSE IN HIS BELIEVES and HATES ISLAM?

Even this man being Christian he has no RIGHT INSULT another people's believes and write article about they are wrong.

From previous comments he called us "YOU IRANIAN Muslims are Cowards"

HOW he could write about another RELIGION that he has NO CLUE and NO KNOWLEDGE of, but ONLY SAY NEGATIVE things.

I think Kouroush Sassanian has only ONE TARGET " DISTORT the TRUTH ."

He has only one fan and supporter Rosie JAN (He calls her).

But I ask you Rosie, do you support him, because you feel sorry for him or you really like his ignorance and hates about Islam and Muslim?

Because as it clears most of the people don't like his offensive language.

Anyway I gonna let go and let him live in his SORRY IGNORANCE for rest of his LIFE.

I pray to GOD that we have less people like him with his ARROGANT and STUPIDITY.
This is my final words to him.

Omar Khayam says:

Jam ee motefaker andar rah e Deen

Ghomee beh goumon fetodeh dar roh e YAGHEEN

Meetarsam az on keh bung oyad ROOZEE

Keh ay bee khabaron roh na on hast to na EEN

WTF!

God is watching, WTF! You really convinced me with that remark that Islam is peace.

lostid is funny

We all know what muslims are told about jews and christians. They are dirty, unclean and a lot worse. Give me a break, no need to defend Islam. The roots of what muslims are told is right of the koran. Most of you have attacked ks for being a jew or zartosh believer - what a joke! ha, the jokes on you

Nice Try LostIdentity, but....

Nice try LostIdentity, but your kind of sophistry is quite obvious and old. KS has not taken the verses out of context. You have! Any one with any small knowledge of the Koran and Islamic tradition knows that the later verses and suras abrogate the earlier ones, and the later verse and suras are all extreme with almost no tolerance, and abrogates a lot fo earlier inclinatiosn towards little tolerance as it was. Hence the sura "Attawba" which starts with no "bismillah arrahman arrahim", but as angry voice for retribution and a call for violence. So it is YOU who are the hypocrite here and take things out of context. Thee tactic might work for a bunch back water ignorami, won't work for a free international forum where people actually have studied the topics and know what is being said. 

Re: Kourosh...the Quran interpreter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess what your objective is by posting all this, but lem me tell you - You may be able to conceal your intention from us, but God is watching you.

You know that you're just here not to have an informative discussion but rather create doubt and fish in the muddy waters........For example take this aya 5:51...you think you just discovered something that was concealed from uninformed people?????
Take a look at this aya:
"....DO NOT PRAY....." Now this is out of Quran...does it actually forbid people from praying?

You arbitrarily or intentionally take aya out of context and the story Quran is telling, cut it out and exhibit it as a horrible(!!!!)clause.

I refer everyone to go back and read the before and after aya's and get the whole idea.

For example...why did you not choose 5:57:
57. O ye who believe! take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport,- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have faith (indeed).

5:69
69. Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Or 5:70
70. We took the covenant of the Children of Israel and sent them apostles, every time, there came to them an apostle with what they themselves desired not - some (of these) they called impostors, and some they (go so far as to) slay.

or5:82
82. Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

In Islam, the benchmark being good or bad is not to say "I BELIEVE" and that it. And, it does not mean that if you are not moslem, you are enemy.

Try to get rid of your arrogance, bigotry and ignorance.....then, you are a truly free man...free of being under control of your Jealousy, Anger, Arrogance, and selfishness!

Peace and Justice on earth for all mankind

Why going on a tangent.....

It is mind buggling going through this thread. Why doesn't anyone dispute the quotes? Is KS committing fraud? if not, why is his conclusion flawed?
Forget about what he believes in, Jesus, Moses, Ahoormazda,...or Satan. That's irrelevant. Just debate or dispute the quotes. If you think he is mistaken in his interpretation, show him why. Enlighten him with logic and reason. No bashing or name calling.

I have no idea what KS's religon is, but my best guess is that he is born and raised muslim in a family with deep love for ancient persian heritage. Respect him for who he is and stop bad mouthing if you don't have anything to dispute.

Forgiven...........not forgotten

"Injuries may be forgiven, but not forgotten."

              -AESOP

LostIdent

 Qur'an 5:51

"Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other."

Not one of you is willing to come forward and refute any of my postings! The World is watching! Dispute my quotes, prove me wrong and saves your souls!

Koran

Islam is hate

Kourosh=Ablahe Islam-shenas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't imagine how pathetic you are to mess with a religion for your own political gains. This is called "Tofe sar bala". You spit this hatred up and after a moment it reflects back on your soul. I surely worry about people like you.

Your Icons in this fight against Islam is Bahram Moshiri and his likes. He is such fool himself, full of lies and misunderstanding about Islam.

These days Islam bashing is in style and it will go away as it has in the past but the effect will stay as a scar on your soul.
**********************************
Take this dose of love from Rumi (Interpreter of Quran):

Why think thus O men of piety
I have returned to sobriety
I am neither a Moslem nor a Hindu
I am not Christian, Zoroastrian, nor Jew

I am neither of the West nor the East
Not of the ocean, nor an earthly beast
I am neither a natural wonder
Nor from the stars yonder

Neither flesh of dust, nor wind inspire
Nor water in veins, nor made of fire
I am neither an earthly carpet, nor gems terrestrial
Nor am I confined to Creation, nor the Throne Celestial

Not of ancient promises, nor of future prophecy
Not of hellish anguish, nor of paradisic ecstasy
Neither the progeny of Adam, nor Eve
Nor of the world of heavenly make-believe

My place is the no-place
My image is without face
Neither of body nor the soul
I am of the Divine Whole.

I eliminated duality with joyous laughter
Saw the unity of here and the hereafter
Unity is what I sing, unity is what I speak
Unity is what I know, unity is what I seek

Intoxicated from the chalice of Love
I have lost both worlds below and above
Sole destiny that comes to me
Licentious mendicity

In my whole life, even if once
Forgot His name even per chance
For that hour spent, for such moment
I’d give my life, and thus repent

Beloved Master, Shams-e Tabrizi
In this world with Love I’m so drunk
The path of Love isn’t easy
I am shipwrecked and must be sunk.

Forgiveness Venue

Thanks!
Perhaps "All's well that ends well", after all, is no comedy!

MN / KS

go here:

//iranian.com/main/blog/jahanshah-javid/heading-back-homepage1

 The post is called "JJ" and Kouroush wrote it when he was still a "chicken."  He registered shortly thereafter.

I don't find it strange at all that such a mind can behave as KS does. Briefly, living in the archetypal realm is a gift, but it's frightening and it causes people from childhood to latch onto whatever structure they feel gives them some kind of solidity.  Hate is solid.  If that makes sense....I wouldn't say anything is "missing", I'd just say things are VERY SEVERELY out of balance....but....one hopes for the best....let me know when you register!

KS  You see?  You already have TWO fans, MN and me.  Don't pay any attention to "Walt" on my thread, he's just being mean for the sake of being mean.  Now you know how it feels to be on the receiving end when you are exposing your goodness and your pearls and you get hit with venom.....he is so much like you, that Walt....a kind of "mini-me" of Killer Shark....And MN has better taste in poetry..... in my opinion, of course....

Dear Rosie, I'd be

Dear Rosie,

I'd be interested to see when and
where JJ's forgiving took place!
I'd appreciate it if you'd direct me to it.

I must say his poem is quite 'some poem', though what amazes me is that a mind which can produce this
kind of poetry can also produce and dwell on such animosity and rancor!

It is strange that this same mind cannot recognize the sanctity of the rights of others!
There seems to be some element missing here!
This is a strange phenomenon!
I hope you are right on the 'progress' point.
Wish you the Best.

Dedicated to Kouroush Sassanian

divooneh divooneh
kouroush showdeh divooneh

divooneh divooneh
kouroush showdeh divooneh

ole ola ole ola
ole ola ole ola

ole ola ole ola
ole ola ole ola

divooneh divooneh
kouroush showdeh divooneh

divooneh divooneh
kouroush showdeh divooneh

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TGn3mh5UdY

Dear MN

Thank you for your concern.

First KS couldn't forgive JJ, then he did publicly.  Then he got registered and he's just written a magnificent poem on my current thread.  He needs to channel his energy, his extraordinary creative powers, into literature where they belong, and also where some of his concerns may be legitimately expressed at the archetypal level where they belong.  So...progress...not perfection....I'm not deluded...I can't even say I'm cautiously optimistic as I normally would...I really don't know what the outcome will be...but there's been some  progress, so I haven't completely given up yet....and anyway, you see, the thing is...a great poet is a great poet...it transcends almost everything in some way...but unless you go for that kind of dense, visionary, post-modern poetry, you wouldn't really undertand how I feel....nor should you be expected to...but....that's how I feel....

Thanks again.

Rosie

Kouroush Sassanian...

You are constantly making spelling mistakes in
your posts, but nobody makes fun of you (at
least not for the 'sp' mistakes) I remember one person once made only one mistake in their
comment and you thought you had caught him/her in the act, and really attempted to make fun of
that person - to no avail of course.
Why don't you try and do what Nadias has
suggested:
"Could you not maybe stop thinking of yourself for once and make a difference in the life of another human being." ???
Nadias jan the above is a great suggestion, but I think he simply CANNOT. He is too engrossed in "Himself" and his "Hate".

Although I initially felt great apathy and sympathy for him because of his immense loss, yet he has proven again and again to love only himself, and think that he is the ONLY person who has suffered in life.
At this point he seems to have no purpose or aim in life other than HATE!

Reasoning does not work.

Rosie jan, you have made every effort to help this "poor soul", yet this poor soul is incapable of recognizing his own state.

That is what makes it so tragic.

PS. I would not have been so petty as to point out your numerous spelling mistakes, but because you are constantly making fun of, humiliating and degrading others, maybe just a small dose of your own medicine will serve you well.--that is if you want proof.
The mistakes (only)in your last post are:
"reincarnition" & "Zoroasterian"

Kouroush first of all I want you to know that the poem

you posted on my current thread is breathtaking and I'll talk to you about it later after I have time to digest it...

but

I ALSO want to tell you that Nadia is a VERY close friend of mine and we speak regularly and I have the highest regard for her. She comes from a very humble working class sheltered, male-dominated chicano family and she has educated and liberated herself and she does VERY VErRY well.  Extraordinarily so.  I admire her.  She has also undergone hardships in her life that would KILL most people but true to the proverb, they have ONLY MADE HER STRONGER. She is a source of constant support and inspiration to me and I have to tell you that when you insult her intelligence, you insult me very much.  I want you to stop doing it.  Not for HER sake, she is TOUGH AS NAILS and you can't hurt her with anything you say, but for MY sake, out of respect for ME. She is like a sister to me. Without her support, on and off-site, I simply would NOT have been able to survive this website when I first got here, and at other difficult times.

SHe is a BEAUTIFUL person. Go back to my thread and read her post on Gardner's multiple intelligences.  She possesses types of intelligence that you and I both lack. And the ones we have...well...she does just fine....more than just fine....if you cannot see beauty in Nadia's soul...I wonder if you have one yourself...but I know you do....so....open your eyes....

Nadia: Daisies . . .

Daisies  . . . I am not the Shia here, you are! Still no one wants to confront/answer one simple issue! You converted to Islam according to Rosie! How did you reconcile mohammad being a child rapist with the fact that you have kids?

KS everyone has a limit........

and I have finally reached mine, I am done with your ignorance. I may have said many things to you but you are unbelievable.

 Kouroush Sassanian: Nadia, please shut your trap, just listen to Gloria! You are too shallow, as I said before to really get it.

Nadia

Gloria is waiting for you!