Be very afraid: Islam's plan for you, part II

Kouroush: A Word of Advice

I have been reading a great deal of articles and blogs today, and everywhere I go, there is a reference to you, and the various aliases and names that you perhaps use.

I don't know whether you have noticed this or not, but everytime time that you get unusually toxic, such messages about you crop up throughout the site.

I believe that there is a fundamental problem in the manner in which you are expressing your point of view. I mean that there are others who may have similar point of view to yours, but because their manner of expression is more moderated, they manage to express them more "effectively".

I don't know whether you have noticed this or not, but these people who follow you, and let people know about your background, and your aliases, have essentially "neutralized" you. Eveybody throughout the site knows who you are, and are fairly familiar with the various aliases that you may use.

Today I read several comments by Nader Vanaki, Ahmad Bahai, Anonymous2008, and other aliases that people say you use. Some of them are unusually harsh and cruel. As others have said, it is very much like spewing venum.

If you are truly a smart person as you claim to be, then you would modify your approach in such a way that people wouldn't come after you, and neutralize you as they so far have. Remember, if you can not get your point of view across, it is very much like being silent.

To All those Who Read My Comments

I want to make sure that you fully understand what my background is:

I was devoted to Mammad Reza Shah Pahlavi. Also, I am a Zartoshti, and when I was growing up, I grew up among the Jewish people.

Consequently, I developed strong negative feelings towards Islam.

Please remeber that when you are reading my comments in this blog. Thanks

P.S. I also use multiple names throughout this site. Names such as Ahmad Bahai, Anonymouspb, Anonymous2008, babakoohi, Kos Sher, and most recently, Nader Vanaki, and Kafka.

I'll keep you posted of new ones if I use them.

All your quotes are Sunni quotes

The quotes you take are from sunni authors.

Tabari and the rest are highly disregarded by shias.

The hadiths of Bukhari, Muslim have good and weak hadiths.

It can be said you did do a lot of research but,

after the Caliph Hassan ibn Ali ibn Abu Talib (Grand son of the Prophet), the muslim community fell to the Umayad dynasty which was an un-islamic dictatorship. Muawiyah was it's first Caliph/king.

You are welcome...

I learned the hard way too. :o) Sometimes the best lessons learned are through experience.

paz y amistad

Nadia

Thank you Nadia/Rosie T....They were attached as REPLY.

.

LostID,

Nadia is right. Weighing and balancing the pros and cons, when you're writing something important in reply it's better NOT to click on REPLY because even if the message you're replying TO sounds like Mother Theresa wrote it, it might be ORIGINALLY attached to something offensive that gets deleted, and the WHOLE STRING of replies goes with it. Live and learn.

I agree with you Anon

I only respond to you since it seems you are partly referring to my comments. As I have stated before, indeed the reason for all the discussion is that Islamists do not agree with us and the bulk of the muslim world is condescending, either because it approves it or it can't oppose it really. Why not? Because of Islamic tradition itself which has always been power hungry and political. The Islamists have the tradition of Muhammad and what followed him on their side. I also agree with you about the chaotic and inconsistent nature of the Koran. As I have repeatedly said before, ever increasing evidence is showing us today that Koran is an amalgam of Christian hymns, heretic beliefs, some Talmudic and Zoroastrian teachings  and a lot of arab internal war related issues, amassed through different times by people unknown. The point however is that the Koran is really a pre-islamic text. It serves as the foundation of what later became Islam, but itself is pre-islamic. The issue is Islam, how it relies on this text, and how it has come to interpret it, what constitutes its dogmas and traditions. That is quite uniform and not so open to various interpretations, and that is also the source of the trouble. The way out is to demystify it, use its onw logic to show its inhumanity and to separate the historical and human compilation of Koran and its sources from the outrageous and ridiculous claims of divinity that Islamic tradition ascribes to it. 

I am merely reasoning their own way to show what it really looks like, how inhuman and indefensible it really is.  

TO: Bijanam

Sepas!

LostIdentity were your posts

attached to any other comments on the thread or were they isolated? If you accessed the reply to a posted comment and it was deleted then your comments will also be deleted.

It is always better to not attach your comments to any previously posted  comments. It is always best to go all the way down and begin a new comment by itself.

solh va doosti

Nadia

Wow...2 of my posting got removed!!!!!!Why and how?

They were in reply to Zion's post;

Wow Kourosh.....

I could have never imagined your soft side. You got some talent to voice your rage so poetically. You brought an old man to tears recounting old memories. I bet that you and I are of the same vintage. I wouldn’t be surprised if you and I didn’t go to the same school together near Majlis. Somehow god has given you the talent to express your feelings so vividly. Not everyone can do that… To be honest with you, I did not appreciate Rosie taking your piece and your outpouring of emotions and starting a new thread.
I wanted to complement you on your ability to communicate your emotions so effectively. I also wanted to agree with you that no one is born with a particular faith. Religion is not a race or a color of skin. But, you are born “to” and raised “by” people of certain faith to that point of maturity that you may decide your own spirituality.
I am convinced that human race would not survive without some spiritually. I also believe that foundation of all religions is rooted in “good” and not “evil”. What frustrates me is blind submission to practice of a religion without regard to the passage of time and progress of civilization.
As I stated in my previous posts, there is no arguing with the quotes you have posted and those Muslims who choose to follow those blindly and make it their guiding light are the ones to receive (and deservedly so) the sharp tone of your insult. But, it is not fair to pass the same judgment to everyone who is born “to” a Muslim family or believes in progressive Islam as their faith. It is not right to condemn a faith on the basis of what its
practice required centuries ago.

Please forgive me (you and any other reader) if my comments come out as condescending. They are not meant to be that way.

Kourosh, I hope to see more writing from your softer side….

Cheers,
And, peace on earth

Your welcome

from the thorn in your side.:o)

Nadia

True, true!

KS............

"Hatred paralyzes life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it."

          -Martin Luther King, Jr.

The solution is sepration of Religion and State

The problem is not religion. The problem is how people misuse religion to gain power and control over others. The solution is separating religion from government. The law of a nation should not be based on religious laws.
Religion is for individual enlightenment, faith and philosophy. It has to be practiced in private and not be flaunted in public. Those who flaunt religion or wear it on their sleeves are hypocrites who do not actually believe in it but rather use it for show.

Nothing will be solved by searching for ‘true Islam’ or quoting the Qur'an. The Qur'an is a vast, vague book, filled with poetry and contradictions -- much like the Bible. You can find in it condemnations of war and incitements to struggle, beautiful expressions of tolerance and stern pictures against unbelievers. Quotations from it usually tell us more about the person who selected the passages than about Islam. Every religion is compatible with the best and the worst of humankind. Through its long history, Christianity has supported inquisitions and anti-Semitism, but also human rights and social welfare.
All religions have holes, therefore it is not a strong argument to pick passages from them to support a particular viewpoint.

Prior to 1979 people practiced their relgion in private. Those who did not have to flaunt it were the truely faithful. Today religion is no longer sacred in Iran. It is just a tool used by the governement and people are tired of it. People no longer respect Islam contrary to pre-revolution years. Religion has no place in any government.

Kouroush, I want you to know...

forget it. Just check your message box please. Sometimes it doesn't work. If you don't get anything, let me know here. Also check out the unfeatured blogs for something I just posted.
Rosie Tozih

On to the business at hand and more

The questions posed on the following blog were very important and certainly related to this blog, but it did not get much exposure, because a certain someone believed I was, well, it does not matter, here it is:

//iranian.com/main/blog/kouroush-sassanian/72-99-or-100-virgins

To: Bijanam

You seek my intent - well, my intent is colored with many days and nights of intrigue, enlightenment, confusion, frustration, epiphany, guidance, and so much more that these limited words would simply disappoint you.

This website is inaccessible to Iranians in Iran, therefore, I am not under some delusion that some difference will come from these or other posts, however, I must say that there are many Iranians who live abroad that want to know the truth about Islam and Iran. There are many Iranians that have yet to read the Quoran, but readily and proudly claim ownership of said book or religion. These people are not evil or bad, but they misled or must claim some affinity to Islam, because they have been feed this notion that they were born Muslims - as if, Islam is a race or color of skin where a person is genetically born with such traits or characteristics.

In other words, I can understand being born black, white or even  a frog, but being born a Muslim is unacceptable. Don't get me wrong I know the reasons behind this mandate under Islam - it paves the way to completely control a human being from the first day one takes a breath in this World. Do you know the punishment for apostasy under Islam? Religious Tyranny – I say!

Many have suggested that it is a waste of time to engage Muslims - I say not! I am not here to hold hands with Iranians Muslims. I am here to be in there face. I am here to confront them.   

But, more importantly, as I said this days ago, I am here, because I am you, your neighbor, your shame, your fear, your hate, your past, your present, your future, I am your mirror, I am the friend you once had, I am the person you betrayed, I am the person you stoned to death, I am the first stone cast, I am the child that hung until the red left his lips, I am the mother who had to claim the body of her child, I am the father that could never wash his son’s body, I am the cold winds that ran up your back when you sense injustice, I am the emotion that makes you stare with fright and intrigue at a  person as his life leaves his body, I am everything you do not want to be,  I am  a Muslim, a Jew, a Mazdaki, a Christian, a Sufi, a Bahai, I am hate, I am love, I am anger, I am sorrow, I am hope, I am your denial, I am your efforts to distance yourself from Islam, I am your excuses,  I am your broken grave stones,  I am your unmarked graves,  I am tears, I am the desire to send steel rain to the IRI, I am your vengeance,  I am your desire for a pound of flesh,  I am your desire to distinguish yourself from Arabs,  I am your contradictions,  I am unfair,  I am your humanity on a cusp,  I am your irrational desires,  I am your divorces, I am your failed efforts at love abroad, I am your failed attempts to fit-in, I am your changed names so it can be pronounced, I am your efforts to include your non-Iranians friends in the conversation, I am thousands of souls that never came back from the War –  I am you!

I am your laughter as the warm waters of the Caspian crashes against your feet leaving a million water nymphs squirming under and over your feet, I am your request and desire to stop and get warm, fresh kolocheh as you arrive in Mazandaran, I am the pain that brings a smile to your face as you walk over sharp seashells trying to reach the water,  I am the purple skies over Perspolis,  I am the wait for the order of jegar with salt bought at the street vendor [jegaree], I am the pieces of seeds[tokhmeh] spat from the upper balcony over the heads of the audience sitting in looj,  I am the barley soup with a piece of bread being eaten on a cool winter day after the movies at Cinema Takhteh Jamsheed, I am the laughter of kids at a school playground at zangeh tafreh, I am the inner urge to “gher” when you hear bab-karam,  I am the anticipation for peroshkee, I am that bastanee ghefee, I am that fire coming from the tumble weed at Chahar shanbe souree, I am the crisp new bills you got for nourouz, I am the nouneh khameayee sold near Majlis,  I am how you feel when you mother asks  what you want her to make you for dinner, I am the deep snow in Hamedan, the dates on the ground on the streets of Bam, I am the round faloudeh Kerman, I am the best ash you had in Tabriz, I am the summers in Astara, I am the mountains of Alborz and Zagroos,  I am the hot, hot summer muggy nights of Abadan, I am the korsee at your grandma’s house in the dead of winter, I am the first gojeh of the season, I am the night skies over the Kavir,  I am you!

Eloquence and Tolerance? or rather DoubleTalk?

LostIdentity, according to you, although the Koran very clearly says do not take JEWS and CHRISTIANS for friends (without specification) it actually MEANS only certain types of Jews or Christians, a certain group of them who were waging war against the muslim community. right. Now a couple of questions. 

Isn't the koran supposed to be the most eloquent and the most clear dictation of the words of Allah the almighty, himself? If Allah meant only some of the Jews for only a certain period of time, couldn't he have said at least as clearly as you just did, and that in a book that he intended to be for all times, the last and most perfect religion for humanity till the end of times? My dear, this is important, because in the verse you quoted, there is no simple mention of Jew of Christian (as a general term), but a very specific type of believers n certain idea are singled out versus everyone else.  But what are those ideas? Islam sees other existing scriptures as corruption of the "true" scriptures that were identical in every respect to the teachings of Islam and the Koran (of course, what else? ;). So believing in allah and the last day is Koran's way of asking all the others to come back to purity that is Islam. This is just another clever way of emphasizing the superiority of Islam over all the other (false or corrupted) religions. That is why in the verse I quoted, the term Jew and Christian has no further explanation and is actually meant for all times. The Koran says so very clearly:

"Abraham was neither Jewish, nor Christian; he was a monothesit, a muslim. he never was an idol-woshiper. The people most worth of following Abraham are those who follow him and this prophet (Muhammad), and those who believed. Allah is the Lord of believers." 3:67-68

 It is very clear what Koran thinks of Jews and Christians in the very essence of their beliefs. It is not even considered monotheism by Koran! Those mentioned in your verse, LostIdentity, were not Jews and Christians, it were those from those groups who figured out Islam and hence are muslims! Who is taking verse out of the context now, LostIdentity?!

This is what Ibn Khatir says about this as well:

//www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=5&tid=14338 

Of course you can deny Ibn Khatir as Sunni or what ever. But you see, if I am allowed to cherry pick from the evidence and historical records, I can quote enough humanitarian passages from speeches and books of Hitler and Goebbels to pass them through as the best of men and the loveliest of ideologies.  I'm sure you see this would be hypocritical. After all, you mentioned, in your white washing attempt, of certain jews and Christians warring against muslims at that time. Now how do you know of that time? Isn't it from the same sources as Al Tabari and so on? Why not remain consistent LostIdentity? If they are thrust worthy, they are thrust worthy, if not, not. And once we are here, what about the koran itself? If you are allowed to cast doubt on any source that disagrees with your premises and dogmas, why not on the authenticity of the Koran itself? After all they are all handed down basically from the same people, region, period of time, channels and sources.

NOW let's read all the quotes from Tabari and Ibn Ishaq that KS has provided here. What do you see? Jews and Christians waging war against innocent muslims, or a ruthless new ideological tyranny spreading it s dark shadows over the arabian deserts (that were relatively free and multi cultural before that). Men being assassinated in their homes, fear being struck in the hearts of the "enemy" who used to live there before hand in peace and minding her own business amidst many others for years....

Some fairness, LostIdenity, just a tiny bit, huh?

Free your mind from dogma and the need to be an apologist for evil and a whitewasher of crimes. 

Re: Bijanam

To me, you say the same things that KS or Zion says. They are all "the head and tail of the same idea". And, the idea is to separate Islam and IRAN and put them against each other. If you really look for peace you preach peace and act peacefully. I have to, unfortunalely, say that your words contradicts your presumed goal (peace). I don't exactly know where this idea of creating conflict between nationalism and faith started, but I assure you that it won't work in this day and age. People are smarter than you think they where decades and centuries ago.

Peace on earth for all mankind;

Re.Rosie .. Don't Twist my words "Are you accusing me...?"

YYou really proved how you UNREASONABLE and FOUL you are, like K.S.

CAN YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT DID I SAY.

I asked YOU for GOD SAKE ONLY a "QUESTION " A "QUESTION ".READ CAREFULLY.This is the Question I asked:(FOR the THIRD TIME)

"But I ask you Rosie, do you support him because you FEEL SORRY for him or, you really LIKE" HIS" ignorance and hates about Islam and Muslim?
Because as it clears most of the people don't like his offensive language.

I REPEAT AGAIN I SAID do you FEEL SORRY for him or you like "HIS" again "HIS " ignorance and hates about Islam and Muslim NOT YOU.
In the CIVILIZED WAY You could simply say "No" because...(Your reasons..)

Do you consider this question FILTHY not your DIRTY WORDS and LANGUAGE, FILTHY .

I think you LANGUAGE and your WORDS are more FILTHY, not my question.

"YOU Understood what you want to Understand".

NOW you changed a simple question to ACCUSATION and VERY SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS.

DID I DIRECTLY SAY,you KILLED SOMEBODY or you STOLED something. You make a big DEAL from SOMETHING small.

Which part of my comment : I CALLED YOU A "RACIST"

Where is this come from? Are you Accusing Me?

"' DON'T TWIST MY WORDS."" and "" DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH"

If somebody read my comment, they can say I never accused anyone being racist "

ROSIE ARE YOU OK! I mean OK!

DO YOU CHAT with people LIKE this , just ACCUSING them that they called YOU racist.

Actually must tell you:

You can't just go around frivolously and accusing people ,the THINGS they never said and PUT your words in their MOUTH.

These are VERY serious allegations .

And I SHOULD NOT be SURPRISED because YOU use FOUL language.YOU are like YOUR FRIEND K.S.
You are a LIAR, UNREASONABLE, FOUL and impolite.You DESERVE these WORDS .
I am not like you USING "STREET WORDS". This is REAL you.

You that kind of person TWIST people's WORDS the way you want it to be.

I said , I don't respond to you anymore ,but I had to this time because YOU
MISLEADING people by ACCUSING ME the thing I NEVER SAID,( I called you
and people racist) I had to Defend Myself.

Re: Zion

I told you but you carelessly (or carefully) try to brush asidemy reason and go on with your own presumed logic.

The intent of this Aya is to warn moslems agains those who want to eradicate Islam during those blossoming days. This was not about ALL Jews and Christians. It's about those who wanted to uproot Islam.

Now, What do you make of the following Aya that came a7 Aya after the one you mention?

5:69
69. Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Do you take a person who creates mutiny against you as your friend? Don't beat around the bushes and give me straight answer, Please?

Peace for mankind

Thanks Bijanam

I also admire and learn from your open mind and to the point comments. 

I really appreciate your kind words.

BE SPECIFIC (If you can)

LostIdentity, 

stop beating around the bush and talk about generalities. Illuminate us SPECIFICALLY how the verse 

Qur'an 5:51

"Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other."

 can mean anything else than what it means. OK? Put your supposed "rules" in to action here, and start with the verse above first.

  You can keep quoting Rumi all you want, won't address my point. Rumi uses many cultural traits to present his OWN ideas. he talks of Muhammad, of Ali, of Karbala, of Jesus, of Moses, of a talking parrot, of a lady having sex with her donkey... you name it. How does that change what i already explained?

Da World, you posited that I am a covert Muslim hater without

even bothering to find out anything about me or my views.  And I WANT you to be surprised by my language because what you said was FILTHY and at LEAST I put asterisks. I have devoted HOURS adding up to full DAYS COUNTERING KS's Islamo-bashing every conceivable way I could.  You have no RIGHT to accuse ANYONE of what you did, based on a cursory reading of a couple of posts, ESPECIALLY someone like me who is KNOWN to be a copious writer. And if you bothered to REGISTER, you could TRACK my posts easily. And if you don't bother, you really...shouldn't be so frivolous in your accusations.

And you SHOULD be surprised because I NEVER use foul language. You should be surprised and REFLECT on why you deserve it.  Read my posts, as I suggested you do, on the issue of Islam, primarily in KS's first blog and the Ashura/Ahmadinejad one and REFLECT.

You can't just go around frivously and willy-nilly accusing people of "racism."  Find out about those people first.  These are VERY serious allegations and the onus is upon YOU to prove the charge before you make it (or even SUGGEST it), rather than on that person to defend themselves.

To: All....

It is very gratifying to see such a civilized exchange on a subject without too many f words…
while I lack the depth of historical knowledge and research that Zion or Rosie have, but I have 58 years of living experience with muslims and feel justified to chime in with my observations and the opinions that have developed from such observations and very limited research. Unfortunately 20 years of academic studies did not give me the chance to read more in-depth into historical backgrounds and texts of such historical documents. I’ve been more into math, science and engineering (nerdy stuff).
I don’t know what KS’s intents are in starting this thread, but, I cannot argue with the facts. You can argue that some of the quotes are taken out context, but you can’t deny that the 7th century Islam was pro-violence and in-tolerant of non-believers. And, there is no argument over how Persian culture was invaded by Islamo-arab culture. However, the fact and reality is that after 14 centuries Iran is (and will remain) populated with muslim people.
But, to suggest that Islam is the identity of an Iranian citizen is nonsense. Those Iranians who identify themselves by the preachings of 7th century Islam are those that are keeping IRI in power. As I said, I have lived with Muslims my entire life and some of my closest friends (who I trust my life in their hands) are muslims (I am an Iranian Jew). None of my muslim friends identify themselves by the religion they were born with.
Then, stop identifying Iranian with Islam. Hopefully the youth of Iran and all Iranians will realize that following preachings of the 7th century Islam will bring them more misery in today’s world. You can’t ignore progress of civilization and freeze in time.
Today you are not considered human if you go to bed with a nine year old. This is not to badmouth Islam, but to emphasize our focus to the positive and progressive aspect of our spiritual belief.

KS: I think I understand your rage and frustration. A lot of times I find myself in your camp but I think it will be more productive if we tone down our rhetoric.

Zion: I have always admired your depth of knowledge and your logical and solid responses to the issues. You are the one I look up to and hope to gain a fraction of your insight.

Rosie: You and I may share many view points but I think you are farther removed from reality than I am.

LostIdentity: You don’t need to be so defensive about Islam. Iran is your identity not your religion. You sound a lot more intelligent to take the 7th century Islam verbatim..

Daryush: Get a life and get out of the dark ages.

Cheers,
And may peace be on earth

Re;Rosie Your Language is Bad as K.Sassanian!

I NEVER used or use those WORDS you used .

What did I say that caused you to act like that. I wrote:

"But I ask you Rosie, do you support him because you FEEL SORRY for him or, you really like his ignorance and hates about Islam and Muslim? Because as it clears most of the people don't like his offensive language."

I said that because from your previous comment,you encourage people to read his blog , to know him BETTER not to HATE him. WHAT THIS TELLS TO EVERYONE you are his...? "Unfinished sentence " (Must be careful of your offensive language).

I don't really write that much, most of the time I JUST read people's comments,but this time:

YOU really SURPRISED me,Because sometimes people write to you really bad things and you LET it GO and don't use any bad words. LIKE " F".

This is really YOU,don't ACT you are a LADY,because you are NOT. You couldn't even TAKE one Question.

The kind of LANGUAGE you USED,shows You're exactly Like, Kouroush Sassanian thats why you are bond with him.

I don't flag anyone because some of you are the same.

I didn't say you are "Distorting the Truth".I said K.S. is.

I don't respond to your comments anymore.

Re: Zion

I refer you back to my previous posting about the context of aya and how you need to consider the continuity of the message it gives in the story it tells. Did you know that there's many forms of censorship and TELLING PART OF THE FACT AND ABANDONING THE REST is considered sensorship (Lie!)?

Your knowledge (or concealing of it) on Islam is amazing. Rumi Hafez and others are fruit of islam's tree. Have you read Rumi's peom about Imam Hossein:
Kojaeed ey shahidane khoda-yee;
Balajooyane dashte Karbala-yee;
.......
..........
OR,
Az Ali amooz ekhlase amal;
Shire hagh ra dan monazzah az daghal;
........
..............

He has tons of poems like these.

Be fair to yourself and others;
Peace

Myths

Such silly shiite myths with absolutely no reliable sources of the early Islamic period won't do either. Also, Imaginations of professional hadith inventor and Orweliian masterminds of rewriting history as need arises, like Majlesi and Koleyni, are worth precisely zero in any serious search for truth. 

Address the issues LostIdentity

... if you can. Koran's verses are clearly against what you claim. Why don't you answer the specific cases mentioned? Like the verse KS quoted

Qur'an 5:51

"Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other."

You want to talk about your noble beliefs, that's fine. they are not Islam however. Maybe you are advocating a new religion. That is also fine, but that religion is not islam, that religion is not based on the teaching sof the Koran.

(Quoting mystics like Rumi won't help you. Their ideas are based on mystery religions before Islam and teachings of neo-platonism. They cloak it under Islamic guise to be able to survive the Islamic retributions, yet they were still declared heretics in their time and for many centuries afterwards, until the modern age actually, when the Islamists realized they could be confiscated, taken out of context in an Orwelian manner and used  efficiently for propaganda purposes.)