kps59

DW Duke

Yes, I know Jewish tradition identifies Katurah and Hagar as the same person. The Kabbalists, whom I love dearly, never cease from culling more depth and insight from the symbolism of this identification. But if you want to walk down that road in wishing to establish concrete, historical filiations, then I am more entitled to the Throne of Israel (and if not as king then as the True High Priest  of the Temple) than Mirza Husayn 'Ali Nuri, since from one side of my mother's line (i.e. Jews of Hamadan and direct descendents of rabbi Joseph of Hamadan) and from another of my father's own matrilineal side (i.e. Jews of Tehran), I am a Kohen. Add to that the  fact that from my father's patrilineal side I am a Musawwi siyyid (a descendent of the 7th Shi'ite Imam, Musa al-Kazim) and from one side of my mother's related to Fatima Baraghani, a siyyida with several lineal affiliations to the Shi'ite Imams, and that would make me the best candidate for the rank of the true Messiah in ages.

Do you see how silly these geneological claims can get?!

That said, it is time for merit and a meritocracy to be the gauge of rank and position, especially spiritual ones, not geneological lineage, since even DNA is not a guarantee of merit or capability -- and in the case of world Jewry you also have the Khazars to consider, a fact which throws a massive monkey wrench in many of the geneological claims being put forward by all and sundry.

AOR Ha-Yahoel

Nur-i-Azal

I am not saying it is true that he was descended from David HaMalek but simply that it is possible.  In the Hebrew DNA research project we are identifying those with such  traditions to compare their DNA to see if there are similarities among them.  I noted that the genealogy he presented identified Katurah and Hagar as two different individuals.  In Jewish tradition, Katurah and Hagar were one and the same.

Baha'u'llah, the descendant of Jesse.

"He derived His descent, on the one hand, from
Abraham (the Father of the Faithful) through his wife Keturah, and on
the other from Zoroaster, as well as from Yazdigird, the last
king of the Sasaniyan dynasty. He was moreover a descendant of Jesse,
and belonged, through His father, Mirza Abbas, better known as Mirza
Buzurg--a nobleman closely associated with the ministerial circles of
the Court of Fath-'Ali Shah--to one of the most ancient and renowned
families of Mazindaran. To Him Isaiah, the greatest of the Jewish
prophets, had alluded
as the "Glory of the Lord", the "Everlasting Father", the "Prince of
Peace", the "Wonderful", the "Counselor", the "Rod come forth out of
the stem of Jesse" and the "Branch grown out of His roots", Who "shall
be established upon the throne of David", Who "will come with strong
hand", Who "shall judge among the nations", Who "shall smite the earth
with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips slay the
wicked", and Who "shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather
together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth". Of
Him David had sung in his Psalms, acclaiming Him as the "Lord of Hosts"
and the "King of Glory"."

Here Shoghi Effendi affirms this Jewish lineage of Baha'u'llah from
Jesse, the father of King David. He also affirms other points all of
which further attest to his heritage being from the house of David as
well as being the prophesied Return or "second coming" of Christ.
Christ being Messiah, Messiah being Messiah ben David, Messiah ben
David being A Male Lineal Descendant of King David, the second of only
two who were prophesied to be Manifestations of God, bearing the Holy
(complete) Spirit (thought) of God and to reveal it to mankind.

DW

Such theories might be plausible if and only if the family in question are not ethnically Mazandarani/Tabaristani and not simultaneously claimed to be descendents of the last Sassanian monarch. I am totally incredulous about such theories because, other than false geneologies, they can never be proven in the affirmative. John Warnsborough, for example, proved the claimed geneology of Muhammad and his qurayshite clan going back to Abraham to be completely myth. Many similar geneologies claimed by contemporary Jewish figures have also been proven to be myth.

What needs to be noted is that appealing to geneology is one of oldest claims to authority there is, and beyond that it usually has no further historicity whatsoever - a good example of this in the history of Islam are the early Isma'ilis. Besides why must genes necessarily establish a claim or causal link to effective spiritual authority? This is a figment of Semitic tribal/or royalist dynastic thinking, don't you think? Besides some of the most effective political and religious leaders of history have had no lineal connection to figures of the past.

Exhilarchs

There are many in Persia who are patrilineal descendants of David HaMalek so this claim is not unbelieveable.  Of course, it is important to remember that a genealogical claim is only as valid as its accuracy.  It would be interesting to see the test results of his lineage here.  We could then compare it to other patrilineal descendants to help establish our reference range. 

//www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?group=Hebrew

BUPC. Good to see you hear, KPS59

By way of introduction, KPS59 belongs to the group BAHAIS UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF THE COVENANT whose guardian is Neal Chase. They do not recognize the current Haifa based Universal House of Justice and are electing to establish their own UHJ with women eligible to serve on it unlike the Haifan uhj who presently bars women from service to that body (it being an all-male body).

This is also one of the groups that the US Bahai National Spiritual Assembly recently sued (and lost in a US Illinois District Court) for trademark infringement of the name Baha'i. The case remains in the appeals process with a decision by the appelate court imminent.