Nazy Kaviani

To the British Mazdak!!

Sorry to have dented your middle eastern credentials by reminding you that calling Iran/Persia a Middle Eastern country is not an accurate description of the country and its people. Your Wikipedia quotations are noted but not highly valued. FYI it is not your Foreign Office who favors the term Near East when ot comes to Iran but some of the most American of institutions, and the topmost credible ones such as washington Institute of Near Eastern Studies in London, Universities of Princeton, Yale, Berkely, and many more have the Department of Near Eastern Studies and, you guessed it, they all inlcude Persia/Iran as one such teritory.

ali

thanks for the clarification.  sometimes words just don't 'splain what you're trying to say.  :-)

absolutely right-on assessment of affirmative action.  i remember my dad saying something in the mid-to-late 70's, when i was... ahem... in my early 20's and looking for a job in my field (english major-math minor... GOOD LUCK).  if i was a black, single-parent female, i would have it made in the shade.  and so true.

it was a glorious concept and one that i support 100%.  but like anything else, it can and was abused.  again, human nature and over-kill by the government.  they just don't know when to back off!!!  :-))

i think there is a little... a small... distinction between historical prejudices and prejudice against iranians (or ME in general).  blacks were considered inferior.  women were considered inferior.  plus, they aren't foreigners.  it was a collective measure of time and effort which overcame those injustices.  iranians are not considered inferior (which brings to mind the "threat" factor).  ok... for the sake of convenience, let's use ME to be fair and include ALL middle easterners.  ME are not considered inferior or of less intellectural capacity.  this is more political.  9-11 stamped "beware of ME" on every american's forehead.  it surely can't be considered a surprise or even really really REALLY unfair... can it?

i don't think "special protection" is going to get you anywhere.  i think a more vocal approach... more participation... more public awareness... is going to be more effective. 

there is a saying... resentment breeds contempt.  and it applies both ways.  i'd much rather avoid both and breed understanding and unity.

Nicely explained Ali P.

Thank you both AnonFish and AP for your mind provoking exchange.

a. fish

    I agree with your points, and I think if you had understood mine- or  had I expressed it better- you would also agree with me.

    I was trying to say sometimes, because of the past discrimination, the American society, by the way of legislation, tries to change the status quo, correcting a wrong.

 The 'affirmative action' by the government, makes Blacks easier to get into medical schools, or women into traditionlly male dominated professions (such as military), but it also creates a resentment, in some Whites, or some men.

   It eventually dies out, but I have personally heard many Whites complain about how they couldn't get a post office job, or a fire fighter job, or didn't get into medical school, where a less qualified minority did. Or some men complain about how 'the equal opportunity laws are destroying the fabric of the military', by allowing women into combat.

   If Iranians are going to enjoy an extra protection, currently furnished to the racial minorities, or women, we should expect some backlash or resentment from the majority.

Is it right? Is it fair?

Probably not, but that's the pricetag; something to be considered.

Good questions you have posed. I hope readers would provide answers.

Yours,

Ali P.

ali

correctly you state that the US has not "historically" given equal opportunity to various minorities.  but what you leave out and this is the most important thing of all, is that we do NOW, albeit slowly and progressively.  this isn't an isolated "american" thing.  nor is it just a human trait.  animals are discriminatory.  it might not be right but it's a fact and it's natural.  i don't agree with the "resentful majority" comment either.  i think it's rather more a sense of fear of the unknown or again, different.  why would "they" resent "you".  this is assuming of course you're making a direct correlation to iranians.

i'm not sure exactly what the point of this is.  are you wanting a separate catagory for iranians, or not?  do you NOT want to be considered ME, or you do? 

the below link is very interesting as it relates to ethnicity.

//www.whitehouse.gov/OMB/fedreg/race-ethnicity.html

read specifically Issue 6 as it relates to suggestions.

Near East?

It's amusing how far some (American) Iranians go to try to re-package themselves (Maz’ Jobrani: we’re Persian like the cat, meow). The term Near East is more or less synonymous with middle-east, although more often than not, near east has referred to North Africa and Levant and parts of Anatolia. But it could include Iran too. Both terms are inaccurate, arbitrary terms (east of what?) used by Early European Orientalists and favoured by the British Foreign Office. The persistence of the term Middle East as opposed to the less frequently used Far East reveals the politics of Oil and Islam more than anything else. Iran is part of (West) Asia. Culturally and racially modern Iranians are a mixed bag, that's why it's hard to categorize them. They are fair skinned and dark skinned; brown-eyed and green-eyed; they have inherited the culture of Caucuses and central Asia and East Africa, and in return have spread their own influence (both Persian language and Iranian culture) all over Asia and North and East Africa. Iran was the site of many empires. So look in the mirror and have a side glance at your Iranian friend. What are you? And never mind the racist subcontext of the US questionnaires about race.

The downside

Nazi jaan:

 Dorood bar shomaa! 

 My 2 cents ( which, by the way, is a lot of money to me, these days!):

  In the U.S., the legislation usually steps in and extends extra protection, for groups that have historically been discriminated against, and somehow fell behind due to being treated unjustly.

  Historically America has not given equal opportunity to Blacks, to women, to the handicapps, and to religeous minorities (Did you know you could not testify in court if you were an atheist?).

  The members of these groups were, and are, underrepresented in the high positions of the society- partly or wholly- because of historical discrimination.

  I am not sure if we, Iranians, are underrepresented in high positions.

(Maash'shaal'laah hameh aadam-hesaabee an!) 

      *                             *                                *

  Every time they put a group of people togther in one cathegory, it brings those people closer together, and at the same time, a derogatory name is created by the resentful majority, to refer to that minority.

(By the way, I was just recently  told that the term 'oriental' is considered offensive. They are now 'South Asians'. When did this happen?)

The new racial cathegory created would probably put us and the Arabs-and who else, Pakistanis and Indians- in one basket.

  I don't know.

  I, for one, have just not been discriminated against enough times, to ask for extra protection from the law . Surely others may have different experience.

How about we say

"Beige"?

naive, maybe

optimistic, definitely. 

the middle east is a large representation in america now.  i think there should be a separate designation by now.  unfortunately, 9-11 did cast a dark cloud over most people's eyes.  but... BUT... no time like the present to recognize the value of iranian immigrants contributions to the US and start getting past the stigmata.

however, i disagree with the statement "...proposes that Middle Easterners should try harder to establish their own social identity and to become unified to combat the realities of being considered “perpetual foreigners” in the US".  isn't that defeating the whole purpose?  don't you WANT to integrate with americans?  this is the surest way to continually keep yourselves apart.  virtually every ethnic group immigrating to the US went through the same thing.  certainly ME have had a harder time and with the current climate of terrorism increasing thanks to taliban and others, it's not easy but i'm not sure how to take that attitude.  i'd like to hear more!

ethnic.  i've never heard that.  can you explain a little more? 

Looking foward to more

Nazy, Sepaas!

Please do write more on it. I look forward to it

ناتاليا

Dark outside and white inside

The sorry state of affairs is that, I look dark to the whities, but am brainwashed white inside.
That's why they call me a cocoanut.

This blog should be

This blog should be featured. Thank you Nazy jon.

Thanks Nazy

I am looking forward to reading more about this conference. I wish I could attend it.

I'll change my profile

I didn't know by legal definition Iranians are considered White/Caucasian. In eHarmony, I'll change my race from "Other" to "White". No wonder no one was giving me the time of day.

Correction: Iranians are not Middle Easterners

If you want to address ethnicity please start if off on the right premis. Iran is a Near-Eastern country and not Middle-Eastern as the popular press prefer to call it.