Nazy Kaviani

TOnya sound intelligent but

TOnya

sound intelligent but not pompous. no one likes pompous. you sound patronizing. that isn't nice nor intelligent. especially if you are in the minority. comment if you must, but keep the tone down.

Regardless!

Regardless of the slight tone people have detected - I have kinda detected it in instances too- this is an open forum and you're welcome as every other person is.
This is not a private club, it is open to all.
I do, on the other hand, appreciate your honesty in acceptig your faux pas!( whether tongue in cheek or not!)
We've gotto hear what we've gotto hear!
Do come back, I like Ya!

Jeez!

I feel like I've been sent to the principal's office.  Tarred and feathered and run out of town.  So I sounded a little pompus.  Cut me some slack, will ya!  I'm fully aware I'm the "outsider" here.  I'm trying to sound intelligent, for god's sake.  Like, I'm trying to impress you... like, if I say something clever, you might like, like me.  Yeah, I may have sounded a little... the "c" word.  But you have to know... if you have read ANYTHING I've written... that I try very hard to be fair and honest.  I'm right here where you can see me... no "anonymous"... no "not verified".  I hide behind NO ONE.  I enjoy this site.  It's informative and entertaining.  I AM learning... every day.  You're NOT going to run me off.  So there!  (God, I hope y'all know that last part was said tongue-in-cheek).

Oh Please! We can learn

Oh Please! We can learn about culture without being condesending. Of course, she doesn't even know how she sounds. It's not in the content or the intention. It's in the tone. "I want to applaud each and every one of you", farsi begam nafahmeh: aslan akhe to ki hasti bekhay applaud koni? Ya ki aslan azat tashveegh khast?
But of course, she has aplogized and her point of view is very valuable. As a non Iranian she might have something different to say.
I think this site should be banned to non Iranians, in hame ja hast, beran male khodeshuno dorost konan. aslan inja mian chi kar.

Whew!

Wow. I've been reading the talks back and forth about tonya. Made me interested in what she IS saying. I guess it's all about the nazanin blogs. I was ready to jump on her too based on what you say. But if you read a little closere, you see that alot of people agree with her comments. Maybe a little sarcastic but she isnt saying anything that everyone else isnt saying too.. and a littler meaner too! I also don't think its fair to say she doesnt have a right to criticize anyone here. A ALOT of people get pretty ugly and why can't she say anything about that???? I'm Persian and proud of it. And I don't like the ugly and nasty words being used. I think this website is open to everyone too. Come on guys... lighten up a little. I think she's trying to leaern more about us and our culture. Let's help her, not hurt her!

Well, I'm pretty sure what

Well, I'm pretty sure what blogs y'all are referencing because only once have I been provoked to any extent.  I'm not sure I'm ready to concede on that one.  My interest in iranian.com is more personal than anything else.  Certainly I'm not a political expert.  I'm also aware it's not tonya.com.  But I'm sure that if JJ intended to make it a closed forum for Persians only, he would do so.  I've read and agreed to a great many critical blogs against the West...only a fool would disagree with some.  I'm just surprised that you would take that attitude... "this is Iranian.com and we decide how to talk to each other, whether it is vulgar or in the most polite way". 

ps... thanks for the correction.  I doubt I say it much better than I spell it.  But I AM trying.

BTW, I take my Kiosk very

BTW, I take my Kiosk very seriously. It's taGHseereh man bood.

But anyway, posting that blog was harmful unecessary irrelevant and did nothing for freedom, breaking taboos or anything else.

To Tonya

I noticed your tone too. And in other posts not just this one. A few times it really got on my nervs. Perhaps now that you have been enlightened about how you come across you can either tone it down or go full gear.

I hate the math quiz too.

Apology accepted

Tonya I did see a condescending attitude from you, not just in this quote but in some other posts, so I was prepared to say Fuck You and whatever you stand for, this is Iranian.com and we decide how to talk to each other, whether it is vulgar or in the most polite way.  This isn't tonya.com or american.com or even iranianamerican.com.  Leave whatever comment you wish to leave in whatever tone or manner but don't be our parent.  Parent your own children, many of us Eyeranians on this website are older than you and may even speak better english so don't patronize us and by the way, Webster's dictionary defines "condescending" as  "showing or implying a usually patronizing descent from dignity or superiority: They resented the older neighbors' condescending cordiality." .  Sorry I got off track but as I said apology accepted or your comments taken as a heart felt gesture, take your pick.  All my comments are unnecessary now, just thought to leave it.

PS I hate these stupid math questions.. what are we doing dividing 9 by 3?! 

to Caspian

I don't understand your reference to that song.  I know it well but can't see any relevance.  Just was curious..

 Also... comment to Mazoom should have been to PT... you'd probably figure that out anyway...lol

and to anonymous... what makes you think so?  If if so, is it relevant?

Mazloom

No...no...no... the last thing I intend is to sound condescending.  Not a teacher but in Education and was an English Major.  If that explains my "tone" then I accept that.  But NEVER condescending. And to anyone else who thinks that, my most humble apologies.  My point was simply that I think that iranian.com sometimes becomes a battlefield of who can spit the ugliest venom... Persian and American alike.  I only wanted to express my feelings that this blog was far more receptive to an intelligent dialogue.  Therefore, far more effective.  And no, I did not see the video.  As I said, I believe that even curiosity about wanting to see something "interesting" is not enough of a reason to become a hypocrite.  I just wanted to express my own personal belief in freedom of speech.  I'm not in a position to argue the merits of exposure without seeing the video.  I have no intention of doing so.  So, again... I enjoy this site immensely and have no wish to offend anyone.  Well, 99% anyway.  But certainly not anyone here.  Tagseereh man bood.

Tonya has to be of white

Tonya has to be of white european descent.

Mazloom you are right. This

Mazloom you are right. This is not about sexy images, freedom, breaking taboos...this is about advertising a site that could cause real harm to individuals that did not consent to being exposed.

We can discuss subjects without naming people or putting up their picture.

Tonya: Every time I read one of your remarks they sound terribly condescending. " And I've got to applaud each and every one of you who expressed your opinion in a reasonable and mature way. " You sound like a teacher or something. Thank you for applauding us! What does provoking debate have to do with exposing people?? This is where JJ lost me too. We can provoke all sorts of discussion WITHOUT exposing people. By having the site in his blog, JJ facilitated access to the site for many people. THereby taking part in exposing these individuals who are being exposed without consent.

What are YOU prepared to do?

I read the blog “BerimFaza….” when it came out and figured out from what JJ had described in the article what the site was about.  I decided not to visit the site.  I also have never watched the video of the dog being beaten to death in Iran, and could not watch all of the video of the Iranian student being tazered to submission.  Every man (i.e. human) has to have some type of standard already set up in his mind when facing these situations.  When the Rodney King verdict news broke out and there were riots in the streets I saw a news footage of an Iranian man who got out of his shiny Mercedes Benz and went into an electronic store that was being looted and stole a television and put it in the trunk of his car.  You’ll never see me DO that!  When the rules of a civilized society are broken, what are YOU prepared to do?

.

.

Caspianmermaid

What????????

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Provocation

Well, I must be the only one who hasn't seen this video.  I'm (almost) ashamed that I tried to find it!  But pride finally kicked in and I decided that irregardless of how it's protrayed as "socially significant" that even one more person viewing such a tasteless (as evidenced by the trial and conviction posted by these blogs) video is being hypocritical.  Now that I've gotten that out of the way (just so you know I'm not defending this video), I do have to point out that JJ is right.  I don't think it's necessary that everyone like what they read on iranian.com.  In fact I think that it might be the very heart and soul of what this site is about.  I believe to a certain extent that an Editor SHOULD provoke response... good and bad.  Everyone is invited to express their opinions.  And I've got to applaud each and every one of you who expressed your opinion in a reasonable and mature way.  There's way too much NEEDLESS vulgarity floating around.  This is the kind of discussion I enjoy... an exchange of adult opinion!

To Freedom : "as a cry for

To Freedom :

"as a cry for freedom of expression by all Iranians. "

Let's have those who are willing to put names on their videos come out and talk about Freedom.

" I hope one day we have a big porn industry in Iran."

AMEN. But until then, anyone who passes any information related to a video that is on the net without the permission of participants is part of the circle that leads to arrests and loss of reputation. Even if its just 1300 views.

It is a matter of principle JJ

Nazy jan well written (I do not mean to take away any credit from you) but what you have written more or less is a summery (a very well written summary) of what others have commented in the original web log. I am just very disappointed of JJ (someone who I feel I know some what by simply being a reader of iranian.com for many years and recommending the site every chance I get) to act like ostrich (I do not mean to be disrespectful – it is only the matter of “mesal”). I do not want JJ to admit that he showed a very poor taste by adding the link of that web site to his web log just for the sake of “admitting” that he was wrong but for the sake of accountability. Live and learn. It is more the principle of the matter and less whether 150,000 people saw it or 1300 (“quality” vs. “quantity”).

I am disappointed because it seems that he truly believes that he had an obligation to do it and I cannot get over it. If he had a link of a “Professional Porn Site” per se meaning that everyone involved knew what they are getting themselves into – I still would not like it but that would have been only the matter of having a different opinion. But adding a link of a web site that clearly had some “abuse” it in is the matter of having a different value system (it seems that I talk as such that I just found out that my value system is different than my best friend) but in the way this is almost the same thing (being a reader of iranian.com for a long time) but again this is is not about my feelings but about the principle of things and it sure it not about freedom

JJ: Your arguments are

JJ:

Your arguments are superficial. Please try again. I am eagerly waiting for a more complete analysis of what happened.

"I did not put these videos online."
Reality: You advertised it by having a blog on the subject. You can't say I didn't create coke and then create a commercial for it and help to sell it!

"Tens of thousands of people (including Iranians authotities) have seen them already without the help of my link."
Reality: So what? You participated in the process. Your link has the potential of providing more viewers. That is why the dude emailed you.

"So the impact of my post has been far less than what you fear"
Hala residim be asle matlab!
Reality: So you admit there MAY be an impact and you are ok with it? You would take such a chance with someone's reputation, freedom and maybe, just maybe, life?

"Still none of that diminishes the social significance of these videos one bit."
Vagheana! Nazi has a great point by using the example of pedophilia. But any other example will do.
you mean you couldn't discuss it without providing a link? I have no problem with porn. I agree this is a valid subject to discuss. But, why put faces? You have no problem with being part of the circle of sites that pass the info around?

"I'm comfortable enough among this group to talk about the same things I would talk about to my friends at a party."
Do you kiss and tell with names and pictures?

"I don't condone any of it. I am worried about their reputation and the harsh punishment they could receive if caught. "
Are you kidding me? BOOOGH. TRY AGAIN.
You provided a link that provides access to this stuff. Access to it has consequences. You facilitated.

"But how can you cover up something that's already there?"

I wished you had started your blog with this question which is more braod than this type of porn. A very valid question. This is what is at the core of everything here. Nothing is sacred, right! You could have even mentioned the email you recieved without the link. You made a choice not to.

We could have discussed these videos without putting individuals' identity and safety at risk. Anyone who was interested in viewing them, could have searched and found them. In fact, after the discussion, you could have made a wiser more thought out decision about posting it. Based on principle alone, you should delete you blog.

YOU ARE WRONG NAZY

I don't see anything wrong with what Jahanshah did here. What is wrong about watching Iranian have sex? Legal or illegal? The point is that it happens everywhere no matter what kind of social obstacles a society faces (in this case ISLAMIC). Your analogy with Pedophilia is like apples to oranges. I see breemfaza.com as a cry for freedom of expression by all Iranians.

It says that we are normal like all other human beings around the globe no matter how stupied our political system is. Yes- we Iranian give blow jobs like the Americans. No different.

It shows you that people need to have sex. its natural (whether its legal or paid for with prostitutes).

Also, its about freedom of expression. In America we know people have sex to but many people watch pornos. Why? Same reason Iranians want to watch. And in America someone makes money from people watching porn (its accepted as a form of art whether you like it or not). Let the Iranians enjoy to. I hope one day we have a big porn industry in Iran. If we do, than we know we have freedom!

Not Ala hazrat

I didn't mean "Ala hazrat Hajiagha". I meant Hajiagha the cartoonist, feminists' enemy ;-)

Simply Shocked

Mrs. Kaviani, thanks for being brave enough and expressing yourself in this not very pleasant subject. I do agree with you. I was shocked when I saw the link in Iranian.com and the fact that site has been called as a “social phenomenon”. As a big fan of Iranian.com It is sad for me to see that "Nothing is sacred" has gone too far. That is a pity

Uncovering a Social Phenomenon or Unleashing a Testosterone Fest

Comme on JJ,

You know well in your heart of heart, what you have been doing there.
It was kinda "hypocrisy"action, now don't blame IRI of being impartial ...
We all, here at the other corner of the world, do the same thing as IRI, yet we are freer than everybody over there to express our true feeling about anything.
I like you and I like your website.
That's why I would rather you admit your mistake here and as a true journalist say that "This was an error publishing this and citing the name of that erotic blog, yet annoncing that you wouldn't provide the link to the viewer..! But you just did it !!!
As a very honest and loyal viewer of Iranian.com, I can only say :
I am very glad to read Nazy Kavian's article and it was exactly the feeling I had when I read your comment on that porn link.
Unfortunately my English is not good enough to be able to write such a good comment like Nazy did.
But, believe me this was my first reaction
too, to write this comment for you on Sunday.
What you did here was :
Wrong.
Just admit it and we would trust you yet more than before,
Everybody has a right to do a mistake
Then, everybody has a DUTY to make it RIGHT whe he/she noticed it.

Pot meet kettle

How funny the author is complaining about exposure yet she has articulated a very detailed and compelling article, getting featured and encouraging readers to participate.  Guess what, more exposure.  Pot meet kettle. Hajiagha where are you?!

I am not in favor of JJ posting that blog and link, even with the explanations he provides here.  What does posting on the weekend have to do with anything?  It spun this blog on a weekday, didn't it? You can't be semi-pregnant. Once you post it, you post it.  That blog got plenty of comments.  This one may too.  How funny.

Extraordinary

Thanks Nazy.
I understand and accept your concern for the women who had no idea they were being filmed or that they would end up online. I did not put these videos online. Tens of thousands of people (including Iranians authotities) have seen them already without the help of my link.
I'm flattered that you think iranian.com is so popular. But actually it's not THAT popular. iranian.com does not have 150,000 visitors per day but 150,000-200,000 page VIEWS per day. My blog "BerimFaza.com" has been accessed 1300 times so far. Half of them are probably those who kept coming back to the page to read the comments. And 50 of those page views were mine (at least!).
So the impact of my post has been far less than what you fear. I deliberately chose to post on the weekend when traffic is slowest. I did not write a feature article which would have been more prominent on the front page. I did not give a press conference.
What I did was blog it in iranian.com where only a limited number of friends and loyal readers visit. I'm comfortable enough among this group to talk about the same things I would talk about to my friends at a party.
As you may recall, I did tell you and other friends about that site earlier -- with a devilish smile no less. But my enthusiastic recommendation was not because any of us are necessarily into porn or need to explore porn. But because as adults we must be aware of important trends in our society. And as far as I'm concerned this is an amazing new phenomenon in a society that is among the most conservative on the planet.
I don't want to pretend that my intentions are entirely "pure" or that I'm simply reporting something as a journalistic duty. I would be the first to admit that I'm fascinated with sex and don't hide it. And yes, testosterone did indeed play a major role in my decision to blog about that site. Still none of that diminishes the social significance of these videos one bit.
Many of these women are used and abused against their will and exposed to the whole world. I don't condone any of it. I am worried about their reputation and the harsh punishment they could receive if caught. But how can you cover up something that's already there? You can't turn your back on reality.
Chid porn is fringe activity by a minority of pedophiles. There's nothing new about that. But ordinary Iranians making home-made sex videos of themselves on such a scale? THAT's extraordinary and impossible to conceal.