"No one fights dirtier" says Juan Cole on Baha'is

To AF

I have no specific personal beef with ASIA SOCIETY, if that is what you are asking. I am, however, trying to track and pin-point the specific surreptitious agendas animating such foundations both from the fundings they receive as well as the fundings they give out. Money is the life-blood and animating mettle of all such organizations and where they get it and who they in turn give it to determines the overall agenda of the organization and the complex networks of individuals and groups it is ultimately linked to, and what forces (hidden or open) are behind it all.

In other words, we are talking about big corporate models of lobbying and policy-making and influence which in the neo-liberal/neo-conservative foundation system(s) operative in North America can mask and camouflage itself/themselves through virtually any corporate/organizational prism and form - sometimes quite innocuous ones. This ASIA SOCIETY, particularly given its genesis through the Rockefellers, and especially given its scope, is decidedly one of these.

Ultimately this is all about the corporatization of politics in North America (and throughout the rest of the globe, since the multinational corporate beast no longer respects any borders and transcends them all) into a full-blown fascistic plutocracy of monied elites where such elites get to impose their political will unbidden and without ever having to be held accountable for various messes they create. As a Green Anarchist who is primarily out to expose such things and do something about it whenever possible, however meagre, it is my business to follow and track such things in detective fashion wherever they might lead. Law enforcement agencies tracking the activities of the mafia or terrorist groups do exactly the same thing.   

Just to let you know, I have a splitting headache, a migraine,

a nurgraine, an icgraine. i'm off of this blog. i've split. there are plenty of other places to find me but I ain't comin' back here. Ciao.

Nur

if you want information, go straight to the source...:-)  that's what my dad always said.  so.  i'm asking you.  what IS the big deal about asia society.  i don't want a whole lot of crap from anyone else talking about paranoia, etc. etc.  i'm just asking YOU.  who is asia society and why is it such a big deal IF they are advisors?  i couldn't care less about bahai.  i'm neither pro or anti-anything.  if you had a bad exerience with them, that's your business.  it's no different than someone who was into scientology and then discovered what a cult they are. or any other religion or belief.  so don't waste your time on a bahai bashing... just give me the straight scoop.

peace out!

Rosie, you are misdirecting

I posted you two links and quoted from one. You keep giving these vigorous plausible denials that some might construe as smokescreens. Whether you know Hushang Ansary or not, is beside the point. That was a rhetorical point to gauge a reaction, and I got one which tells me to keep digging deeper. Yet you still haven't answered the points raised and keep coming back with these longwinded semi-rants that are generally much ado about nothing (don't take that as an insult btw, I actually like you).

Now why do you keep waiving your hand regarding the funding sources for ASIA SOCIETY and its connection to this site without actually answering anything? If you were on a witness stand being examined or cross-examined at this point it would be pretty obvious to judge and jury alike that you are not answering the question and are actually deliberately misdirecting.

Again, I underscore: ASIA SOCIETY is not an advertising agency. Their relationship here is not of a simple advertiser putting up a one-time advertising banner. They are also not "...a well-heeled arts exhibit gallery in New York."

I get it very well. You are demonstrating that you aren't. What gives?

again, the short version will do

no i will neither initiate or support queries about anyone's integrity OR defend them based on the "trial" being initiated by someone whose basic premise for that trial is that snow is blue and that person wears blue.

and i did not say a WORD in defense about j. in ANY of these eight  now eight million threads now except that he is in no one's pay but his own...and it was to make NUR feel more comfortable, less paranoid here.. that is the ONLY positive thing i said about j. unless you consider it is somehow a positive thing about jl for me to state categoricaly repeatng that that basing a public inquiry about him on someone saying snow is blue is prepostrous

IF THERE IS NO BASIS FOR THE TRIAL THE TRIAL DOESN'T HAPPEN. PE RI OD whatever anyone may think of the person, even if he's been convicted in the past. snow is blue is NOT a basis for a trial or EVEN an inquiry.

Fish, you talk about democracy all the time. What is it you don't get here. What don't you understand?

And you're giving positive reinforcement to someone who harbors a pathological delusion which is an illness and THAT'S WRONG. and alsostarting to also border on...well..forget that one...

you're still not getting it..

if i say anyone who calls themselves fish here is in collusion with anyone who was nvolved in designing  your avatar in an agenda whatever it may be and from there postulated a connection between you and the bahai in taking over the world i would do the exact same thing, only address that person about their false premises and refuse to discuss j. the bahai or the people who designed your avatar on any complex level. i would simply stop them there and make them examine the false premise over and over again until they cried uncle. AND i would be happy to talk to them about anything else from the geneticss of elephants to the mayan calender but NOY you, the designers or Bahai's beliefs, politcal or economic ties. or what juan cole said about you.

and it was becoming a three ring circus which dominated the website and was potentially dangerous to your accuser, you, your designers (and their families) and/or the bahai i would strongly recommmend publicly that others follow suit. It is also i said deteriental to the accuser to pursue theories of your affiliations with the rockefeller foundation because it reinforces the DELUSION of the premises.

As for defending j., in the course of these conversation i have said publicly, (just below) that the only person who benefitted from this three ring circus was j, i have said to you down here and nur elsewhere that i can only imagine the dynamic when j. was editor of the now infamous 'Daily Lobo". Both of you petty tyrants and stubborn as mules. When Nur claimed that we all followed j. without questioning I assured him that the regulars are perfectly aware that j. is no saint.

j. told nur he would never come back to his thread and he did and i told nur that he had beaten j. at his game. all this publicly. I have told Nur that j. could easily punish me by not featuring me for a month for saying things like this (on every goddam blog where nur ever harped on j. i have said things like there).

what else do you want me to say. the ONLY time i've defended him was to tell nur that whatever j's flaws may be, the one thing that is most admirable about him is that he works for no one but himself and is in no one's pay but his own.

now few people can say this on our earth and that's admirable. and i can't PROVE it but I SURE ain't gonna doubt it (knowing him personally) just because someone says that everyone who ever designed your avatar is somehow implicitly in collusion with you. no.

especially if they quote a source, their only source for proving it, which says the contrary. that's not defending

and the discussion with nur wasn't even really ABOUT defending j., j. doesn't give a SHIT what anyone thinks of him, iand most people thought nur's nuts anyway. it was about defending NUR from his delusions (why do you think i've spent so much time with him, for my health?) and defending the site from degenerating into chaos, which i've seen happen too many times before.and yes. not defending but protecting the bahai from allegations based on virtual hallucinations. not from critique but from this particular critique.

so no, if nur can't retract those prepostrous premiss on which his argument is based, and come up with sound PREMISES, the conversation stops there. I REFUSE to build a house with anyone standing n a swamp. ESPECiALLY HERE.

because that's what Iranexpatria DOES. they choose premises according to their agenda and then justify their agendas according to their premises. and that's why their arguments  go NOWHERE

and that's why they fucked up their entire goddam country. and refuse to accept responsibility most of them on the false premise that a) imprealism was responsible for it all OR b? the winds of Revoluton are giant brooms capable of "sweeping up" the minds of people who were rational to begin with.

so, as i have stated clearly several times publicly, nur is their mirror, magnified ten thousand times. so i will not indulge these crapola premises ESPECIALLY not here.

anyhow all that is in reponse to your saying i defended j. and whatever else emerged from that. because to even bringing up such defense implies that s omeone saying a lake is guilty based on the "fact" that water is H 3 O is an argument that deserves to be entertained..

and again i'm doing this far more for nur BECAUSE NO ONE HERE SHOULD BE GIVING POSITIVE RENFORCEMENT TO HIS DELUSIONS. and now for you..too..but for Jahanshah?????????????????????????

my dear rosie

i admire your passionate defense of JJ... truly.  i simply am of the mind that one can question anything and anyone.  "...unfathomable to me you think it is legitimate for anyone to even remotely question j's word on this bases on such...LU NA CY.."   i'm surprised that you don't feel that way yourself.  i'm not insinuating that nur is right OR wrong.  it's simply not a matter of right or wrong.  the man is passionate about his cause and he feels justified.  i used the word "advertiser" in my last comment.  i meant "advisor".  and i repeat.  jj accepts advice from many different sources, formally and informally.  personally, i don't believe jj is colluding with anyone.  nur apparently does.  he might have information we don't have access to.  i repeat that neither i or you or anyone else is in a position to refute his claims 100%. 

i won't get into an argument with you about this.  it's irrelevant to me either way.  i'm not pro or anti-bahai. 

the short version, fish, you can ignore the other post..

you write

so.  unless you have direct access to JJ's financial statements, you have no idea whether asia society advertises or not.  simple as that.

no fish we don't, and we don't know whether yesterday was really easter or we're all mind-controlled to think it was..but this much we know:

NUR's own source,, his SOLE source for the basis of his allegations of j's and faryar's conspiracy with the rockefeller foundation via asia society to take over the world is SOURCEWATCH..

and sourcewatch says Asia is an advertiser.

now if you have an argument with what i just said then i'm done..it's hopeless..and if you don't read the post below..or not..if for some reason unfathomable to me you think it is legitimate for anyone to even remotely question j's word on this bases on such...LU NA CY..

ps i saw the ad..they advertised once...yes we DO fish..we KNOW asia is an advertiser..and SO DOES SOURCEWATCH.

jeez louise oh powers oh forces of light oh ahura mazda please put me in cryostasis where time stands still in a frozen capsule so i don't have to go through this again..

no fish, you're not understanding because you're not,

with all due respect, FOLLOWING what i've CLEARLY said..because you don't want to see it..and it's obvious sorry.

I will disucss sufism (and I am), the iranian elections, the genetics of elephants and the price of tea in china with nur, gladly, because he's completely raiional and he's brilliant.

i WON'T discuss the bahai or jj's COLLUSION with them in an itnernational conspiracy until/unless nur retracts certain nonsensical childish irraational assertions that are the premises of these arguments such as:

asia society is an advisor, here, look at sourcewatch, this PROVES it.

well sourcewatch says advertiser. to repeat, j explained it twice clearly,, people TOLD him,, READ your OWN source..

and then SUDDENLY okay asia IS an advertiser but advertisers ONLY advertise in commercial sites in collusion with them in their LARGER POLITICAL agenda.

this is not only untrue but in the case of someone as brilliant and knowledgeable as nur, so patently absurd as to defy the human imaginatioin.

so wheh i finally apparently after lot more work than anyone else put in on several blogs seem to have proven this, suddenly asia' a donor..

and tomorrow..a donut..

so NO, NO DISCUSSIONS about J's OR Bahais or Asia or Rockefeller until nur admits asia's an advertiser, sourcewatch (HIs source) says so CLEARLY, AND WHETHER OR NOT JJ AND FARYAR ARE PART OF A GLOBAL CONSPIRACY TO BRAINWASH US ALL, it is ALSO not only possible but imminently PROBABLE that asia advertised here because that iranian art event in new yourk could reach the largest north american iranian community ON THE PLAnET.

these are the kinds of premises his arguments about j and the bahai here are based on. so NO. it's a distraction and potentially destructive in various ways to verious people (not j, though, btw) AND IT'S A THREE RING CIRCUS THAT ENCOURAGES RIDICULE THAT CAN HURT NUR.

So when I CONTINUALLY encountered this...insanity is the only word for it in his most BASIC premises--asia is in colluion with i.c. for placing an ad? what about the ads they place in village voice, ny times, time out ny...are they in collusion too, I asked? and all I got was no response and suddenly they're a donor.

fish, do you not see, how is it possible that you do not see that nur for the twelfth time btw accused ME of being in collusion w/asia for pointing out the..insanities..of his premises.  I could give an f-ing f. about asia. whether they survive or flourish or whether they exhibit about iran or japan or bangla desh..i don't CARE about them..

so again no no no no and no.

and if i may  be so bold as to say so i thinki know j. a little bit better than some people here...and i said it on various of these three ring circus threads to nur...i am SURE j was no angel in the history they had together and no we do NOT all think that j. is the thirteenth imam of the iranexpatria c-space 9 (although some still do..) ..and i said publicly that i doubt that j. was an angel to nur back in college as editor of the "Daily Lobo", USM..

HOWEVER i'm HAPPY to discuss both j's and faryar's (also someone i know personally) possible involvement in a conspiracy with rockefeller foundation to take over the world.once the house of the argument is built on solid ground, not a SWAMP..

so NO again NO, i can't say it ENOUGH, his BASIC arguments about bahai here entwine them inextricably w. j and asia and bla...so until he distinguishes between an advertiser and an admiral, a donor and a donut...no no no no no no and no. and i discourage ANYOnE from going into those topics, i encourage nur to go into other topics which thank god he's doing (why the f. did j have to feature faryar's blog today, it's just a video, i mean...please..salt in the wound?....couldn't he wait when nur is FInALLY writing about other things in a PosITIVE way..?...oh i think i know j. a little, thoughtless at BEST, check it out..watch how he set nur off in the MIDDLE of a productive dialog with me on sufism...).

so no no no..and i WON'T read his sources no matter HOW legitimate they appear, as does juan cole, i WON'T, because that would give POSITIVE reinforcement to these..insane premises of nur's..ESPECIALLY now that i know he is NOT in reality insane, ONLY on this issue..and PERFECTLY CAPABLE of being reasonable here..

the ONLY thing i retract is that i said at some point that he's borderline paranoid schizophrenic..he's not, he's only crazy on this JAHAI issue...he's fine otherwise...it's just..an obsession..a BLINDING obsession..but he ain't no schizo by AnY stretch of the imagination..so that i'll have to clear up.

and i chastised people too, individually AND AS A GROUP, i told them that as a group to large extent they are also paranoid and that's why they create these fabulous confabulated arguments about the history and future of iran..and why they never move forward..and why the youth of iran are so damn sick of them..nur's your mirror, i said, look carefully i said.

and i dunno if that part worked, BUT i DO know that after that post i wrote explaining why the larger bahai issue should be avoided with him, it seemed to abate considerably.

and i'm proud of that. i feel i did right by nur, by faryar, by j., and by the website community...

and ps YES NUR IS PARANOID AND SO IS HALF THE IRANIAN COMMUNITY HERE..and no not j., he ain't got a paranoid bone in his body..but I do..but I KNOW it because I HAVE the psychology background, extensive...so i fight it every day..and that's the diference between me and most of the others here...among many many other differences between me and majority here...many...many..

rosie

i think my point is, and has been from the very beginning, is that no one... NO ONE... really has any idea what JJ does or whom he does it with.  you were a moderator and had certain access to inside information, that is true.  however, you do NOT work with jj or foad or whomever in every aspect of IC.  i've said this all along.  everyone here thinks they "know" JJ.  i simply point out that we don't.  this is a website.  we are virtual members of a community.  for all you know, i could be a 65 year old man collecting data for homeland security...lol.  you think you know me based on what i TELL you.  everyone has formed this idea of JJ based on his volunteering of certain information.  we met him.  he's a great guy. he's probably everything he says he is.  but you simply have no idea about how he runs iranian.com.  is nur paranoid?  well, i'm not a psychiatrist so i don't label people.  i think it's dangerous. 

did he go a little overboard?  sure, but as i said, i've gotten mighty offended by comments made by members of IC.  people use the word "slander" right and left.  like it's something that pertains to them only.  it's ridiculous...lol 

so.  unless you have direct access to JJ's financial statements, you have no idea whether asia society advertises or not.  simple as that.

peace out!

Oh ps Nur, as regards

Tarot card 7 cups..and my suggested explanation to you about it..

I know quite well of what I speak. And trust me, I am under absolutely no illusions whatsoever. None. None at all.

Fish................Nur

Well Fish, to give you a clearer idea of why I wrote what I wrote which you challenged, let us look at Nur's post to me just now:

I think it might be the case that the Rosie is protesting too much! You aren't by any chance either possibly related to or know Hushang Ansary who is a lifetime honorary fellow of this Asia Soicety, would you?

Nur I have never heard of this person in my entire life, nor do I care if I ever do again. And..

Nur, your saying I protest too much, by implicitly placing me within this "grand agenda" of Javid, Asia, Rockefeller, Faryar, and this Hushang person, proves exactly my point which Fish was questioning: 

that you are incapable of even the simplest rational discourse beyond the level of a grade school child, for all your big words, whenever it has anything to do with the  Bahai and/or Javid (which unfortunately on this site do often go hand in hand).

And that is why Anonfish I discouraged people strongly and still do, from debating him about either of these issues, and sticking to pointing out the irrationality of his most BASIC statements. BASIC.

To put it another way, Nur, if you were building a house on a swamp and you hadn't bothered to fill in the swamp, why would I discuss with you how much the house will cost, what is good or not good about the floorplan, whether it  should have French windows or NO windows, OR WHETHER IN FACT IT IS TO BE USED AS A PRISON OR A SPA..

when this house is standing on a swamp. So there is no house as long as the swamp isn't filled in.

Rosie, where do you live, in the boondocks of NYC?

ASIA SOCIETY

//www.asiasociety.org/

Do you mind pointing out where they define themselves as "...a well-heeled arts exhibit gallery in New York." Surely you jest!

//www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Asia_Society

"The Asia Society was founded in 1956 by John D. Rockefeller 3rd to foster understanding between Asians and Americans," and currently has a annual budget of $22 million" [which BTW comes both directly as well as from  the various subsidiaries of the Rockefeller foundation. This is all public information.]

I think it might be the case that the Rosie is protesting too much! You aren't by any chance either possibly related to or know Hushang Ansary who is a lifetime honorary fellow of this Asia Soicety, would you?

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Anonfish, I didn't SAY he shouldn't post his feelings. I

(well you asked for it Fish, you got it. :o) The concise rationale for my post below is contained in it. This is the more detailed version. But it also contains some other stuff I wanted to add). 

just said that his basic reasoning on this issue was so completely clouded that it was pathological and he either should be conronted with that until he sees it or be ignored but NOT be engaged in discussions about the Bahai until/unless he's reasonable. Obviously you didn't get it, so even though it's there clearly below I'll repeat it.

Nur started off by saying that sourcewatch reveals that Asia Society, a well-heeled arts exhibit gallery in New York, is an ADVISOR to iranian.com, and explained that Asia Society is an arm of the Rockefeller Foundation. He therefore concluded that iranian.com is also a mouthpiece in collusion with the Rockefeller Foundation. This would probably be the case IF Asia Society were in fact an advisor to iranian.com.

The first problem though is that iranian.com doesn't HAVE advisors (c'mon gimme a break, advisors for Javid???); and the second and more compelling problem is that what sourcewatch actually says is the truth: that Asia Society is an ADVERTISER on i.c. Well ALMOST true-AS advertised here ONCE. iranianpersonals, amazon, those are REGULAR advertisers. Be that as it may.

Jahanshah told him twice clearly that AS was an advertiser, not an advisor. Nur did not retract. Other people on the thread pointed out the same thing clicking on the sourcewatch lin Nur'd provided. He did not retract. But then suddenly without a formla retraction, he started saying that AS was an advertiser, but cntended that the same thing was true of advertisers, that non-profits such as AS only advertise in publications which are in collusion with their agenda. Now this is so patently false as to defy imagination. Non-profits advertise wherever they need to and publications accept their ads, when not in conflct with their interests, because they need MONEy. This is particularly true of i.c. J. needs money bigtime.

There was absolutely no reasoning whatsoever through which I could get Nur to face this,on top of his conveniently ignoring that he'd originally said advisor. I have seventeen years of teaching and I could not get him to admit that just because AS advertised here (ONCE no less) did not say ANYTHING about Jahanshah's being in collusion with them.

However finally at a certain point I must've convinced him because suddenly he started referrring to AS as a DONOR. Now again, if AS is an arm of the Rockefeller Foundation, be it advisor or donor, The problem, again is, that AS's NOT a donor, it's an advertiser.

AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT SOURCEWATCH, FROM WHENCE NUr'S ENTIRE ARGUMENT COMES, SAYS. In black and white and plain as day.

So this is not a matter of opinion. This is a matter of fact. There is first of all a very BASIC flaw in reasoning that is so glaring that I cannot begin to tell you the level, it's not beyond a nine-year old IN THIS CASE, but since he's also accusing J. and the Bahai of being in collusion (hence AS, Rockefeller) it is a fact that there should be no other argumentation with him ExCEPT to make him confront this insanity. And it could ONLY by any stretch of the imagination be called insanity. That's it.. That's the sad truth.

Why debate with someone about a really serious issue like the Bahai when the fundamental basis of the argument comes from a level below fifth grade? And I pretty much said that down there and there's boldface and whatnot, and I think I made it pretty clear, except that I wrote that post before AS morphed into a donor.

And from all this I concluded that Nur is one sick puppy.

I am happy to tell yu though that Nur and I were able to discover many common interests (such as the esoteric) and common concerns (such as the persecutionof the Sufis in Iran--which I've posted on here twice, another persecuted group that, like labor and regional activists, is low on the hoity-toity totem pole of the persecuted in terms of human rights on this website, with its many bourgie, self-serving, smug and subjective readers. So Nur and I have become very good friends and he is teaching me about Sufi mysticim.We're having a wonderful time.

And I have been DELIGHTED to discover that if it's not about J. (with whom Nur had unpleasant experiences in college, and I can only imagine..only imagine..) or the Bahai, not to mention J's continued and committed defense of the Bahai herre, Nur is totally rational. It is JUST on these two issues that unhappily converge on this website, that he turns into a babbling, irrational nine year old. So we're working on focusing on other areas where he can chill out and his genius and wonderful contributions to humanity will shine on this forum.

And I'm not gonna speak for him, but for my own part, I found that focusing on the faulty argumentation and the implicit (and severe) pathology it indicated, that I got to know Nur a lot better and feel a lot closr to him than all the people arguing and debating and screaming and yelling EITHER for OR against the Bahai with him. And CERTAINLY far better than the many many people who ridiculed him. I began to explain very carefully to thse people that they were no different from him. And I was right.

It is btw interesting to note that following all the hullabalo someone posted a serious long article from a published source in defense of the Bahai and what, three people commented until I came to point out the gross hypocisy of it all. If it's a Bachanal, if there's a target like Nur, if it's a picture of a girl with big tits in lingerie, or Coney Island, they will scream Bahai rights, Bahai rights! But if it's not sensationalist, how many people on this website do you think (rhetorical question here) really give an f-ing f. about the Bahai. I mean SERIOUSLY give an f. And so after all the hoopla we're back to business as usual. Bahai who?

And after my experiences of the past week which you're well aware of my bullshit detector has gotten sharper, and my tolerance for it has gotten lower, and I'm far more happy working on the esoteric with Nur than on pseudo-politics with pseudo-Leftists that don't give a good goddam about all that much. And if anyone else thinks I sound over the top, ask me. I'll gladly explain why I just said that. But you, Fish, you know exactly what I mean.

The thing that does bug me though Fish is that my rationale for not arguing with Nur about the Bahai or even considering his sources AT THAT TIME is in that post. That kinda bugs me.

Nur, I love you.

Nur, I love you. I have never seen an Ex-Baha'i like you. There are many Ex-Baha'is, but you r the best of them. I love you and admire you. Keep up the good work. With due respects.
An X-Baha'i from United Stated

manoucher

very well said.  iranian.com is a serious case of the pot calling the kettle black.  the very ones who complain about someone getting "personal" are the ones who start it themselves.  that being said, it WOULD behoove nur to contain his defensiveness and address the subject directly and specifically.  i detest bigotry of any kind and people here who demean HIM because of HIS views are guilty of the worst of it.  you want to counter his argument?  fine, do so.  but to call HIM names because he is passionate about his opinions?  it's the very epitome of hyprocrisy.

i'm personally offended by themrs' statement that all religions are corrupt and evil.  big time.  but this IS a free country and she's got every right to voice her opinion.  could i come back and call her names because of it?  sure i could.  but that would defeat the whole purpose of a useful dialog.

this guy has got a serious hard on for bahais.  that's his right.  who knows what happened to him in the name of it. 

rosie.  why shouldn't he post his feelings?  are they any different than the other anti-everything else that goes on here?  paranoid because he spoke his mind and got demonized in the other thread?  i'm not sure i blame him.  he was attacked by the very same people who espouse freedom of speech and nothing is sacred.

double standards to my mind.

Rosie, you don't get it....

Funding relationships are real things. The ASIA SOCIETY is not a casual advertiser here. It has a longstanding relationship with this site. Do you understand?

Here, read the Sourcewatch entry on the ASIA SOCIETY to see why my flags have gone up and what I'm on about. G'head!

//www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Asia_Society

413

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Beaches of Malibu - Phetttt!

The beaches of Malibu? They got nothing on the beaches of Australia. You Iranians in Yankee-Land really need to get over yourselves - and fast! 

413

Please everyone read this.

(I will refer to Juan Cole below).

When Nur wrote the blog that started the new fad, iranian.com sourcewatched, he wrote that sourcewatch says that iranian.com has Asia Society (a NYC art institute for the well-heeled) as its ADVISOR (i.e. said he, implicitly the Rockefeller Foundation, their funder).  A cursory reading of the link HE provided shows that they said ADVERTISER. Jahanshah told him this CLEARLY twice. Shortly thereafter when I harped on this he wrote me the following:

quote  

Asia Society is not in the advertising business, genius! If you people have been brainwashed into stupidity over a lifetime, don't assume others are as gullible as you. Whatever moosh mordegi you and JJ play at, I know how the foundation funding system works. The Asia Society only advertises on sites and places it is actively funding or has some kind of funding relationship to. Geddit

endquote

This is a highly intelligent, well-educated man, articulate, capable of doing research..who COULDN'T READ a simple word and who then to defend himself says the above hallucinatorily prepostrous thing. He is paranoid. Parnoiacs construct elaborate realities based on false premises. You oughtta know, half of you are too and the other half have to live with the rest of you, paranoia being the Iranian national  disease (magnified by three thousand in Nur's case, so if you wanna take a good look at the thing that's holding you back the most as a community and a people, and the thing that caused the persecution of the Bahai and all the rest of the horror, look at him, he's your mirror..vox populis)

Now, being as paranoid as he is, his posts (yes, yours, Nur) are not deemworthy of ANY OTHER RESPONSE than Nur, you're paranoid, here's how I know, OR silence. ANY attempt at refuting any argument he poses, any LINK he provides, any SUPPORTER who supports him, only adds more fuel to this TOXIC engine. So please don't do that. By all means, converse with each other and exchange information about the Bahai, engage LEGITMATE critiques (which means ones that neither support nor reference Nur),  butplease DON'T engage him in rational argument. It onlly reinforces his mistaken notion that he's rational. And that is...dangerous.

As for this..Juan Cole.this sweet guy who looks like a hushpuppy, I don't care if Nur's quoting Gandhi, and I don't think ANYTHING he posts should be read, no matter HOW reliable it looks, because then you may want to respond to it.. And then you will be responding to...Nur...and he shouldn't be given ANY positive reinforcement that should legitimitize his "contributions' here. It's not so much to protect the Bahai, because obviouslly, if anything, this three-ring circus has HELPED them...it's to protect HIM (yes you Nur). He has to face the fact that he has a serious illness and he needs help..and that is ALL he needs to know right now.

Oh yes....and..don't forget..national diseas/

well that's my wad, I've shot it, i don't think i have anything else to say on the matter..oh yes, except...Nur, still waiting for your reply to my reply to your message above on its original thread.

kisses, Roxane

Nur;

Did you hear Alborz' message?  Since you have in-depth information about the questions, please put them forward in an orderly manner and receive the response and raise the questions again. 

Alborz; my knowledge of Baha'ism is minimal.  Except some historical facts and my personal skepticism, I am blank to the subject.

Regards

Manouchehr Jaan, your agreement is not required...

... and your personal principles are evidenced in the manner you conduct  yourself under the most adverse of circumstances.  Just read NUR's response to me below and his approach is abundantly clear.

Again as a poet you can appreciate the importance of form and in the final analysis, his venomous approach is at the root of the debate here.

On my behalf, why don't you ask him to summarize his salient points and you will see a response to all of them.  If he does not oblige, then perhaps you can summarize what you have understood them to be and we can address them.

The Baha'is have never passed up an opportunity to answer  questions from anyone.  The progress of the Faith as the fastest growing and most wide spread religion, after Christianity, is a testament to the redeeming message of Baha'u'llah that has been conveyed by Baha'is in many contexts. This will not be any different.

So please take the next steps.

Yours

Alborz

Nur;

Brother; I admire your perseverance.  It clearly shows that you are a man of principles; however I believe if you reduce the amount of the adjectives you use in your writings and go straight to the core of the subject, it is good for everyone to easily understand your points.  I personally never believe someone has said the last word, however I have high regards for many people who are sacred for many people.  No one with a grain of wisdom believes the person who uses highest number of bad words is right.  Even, I recommend if your opponents use bad words, you do not use them.  By writing "Nari" instead of "Nuri" or Husayn-Alists instead of Baha'i you are not solving any problem.  But, when you post a document, you speak a volume.  I really do not understand why if someone writes about your sexual needs, you post a picture of naked women in response.Your field is religious studies not everything thrown at you.

Regards   

Alborz Jaan;

Thank you for the response.  Even if I agree everything you say is right, it is not right to stir the fire to such an extent that to call the opponnent a mad man.  The castle of personal life should be the last one to be attacked; however differences of thought and beliefs are wonderful things to have.  A great part of the beauty of our culture is exactly our diversity in thoughts and beliefs.  Out of diversity and discussion great achievements are attainable.  Definitely, Nur has some valid points.  I have no doubt that Alborz has plety of right things to talk about too.  But, none of these should reach the point of elimination of the other "by any means". Let's exchange the ideas we have.  No one can tell me he has told the last truth and there is nothing for me think about.

Regards

TheMrs it's your own fault!

TheMrs it's your own fault! You bother NUR and think he should either say nothing or something to your liking? Why did you even bother to say something?!

If he gets the attention he is getting he deserves it, wouldn't you agree? So his basic premis about all Bahais all the time here is kinda true. Has nothing to do with discrimination. Discrimination against who? the iranian.com bloggers?!!

Finally! someone who gets

Finally! someone who gets it! Thank you Nur for mentionning the gym. I've blogged here many times about junk in the trunk and everyone always gets offended, you seem to get it. But between you and me, Angelina Jolie doesn't have any. Last I checeked she DOES go to the gym. And the only place on earth where anyone would even give you any credit is tehrangeles. Ever been to beaches in Malibu? Have you ever gotten that hand out and free Pepsi from the Church of Pepsi Cola (no kidding)? You would fit right in with them. You're not fooling anyone pal, you need a girlfriend...and soon. And by the way, I'm an atheist and don't even know any Bahais. Discrimination is always wrong, but I think we should create a category just for you. Have a good one.

Indeed a person's character reflects their principles

And looking at the clearly documented character and principles of you Haifan Bahais, beginning with your prophet/profit of doom (see www.bayanic.com click tab BAHAISM), and objectively weighing all the evidence together, it is absolutely clear that you Haifan Baha'is have no character or principles whatsoever other than personal advantage, lies, deceit and $$$, as Dr. Sa'eed Khan also poignantly observed:

From Mission Problems in New Persia, 1926, p. 83, 87 & 89 quoted by William McElwee Miller in The Baha'i Faith: It's History and
Teachings, 1973, p. 289.

 "...There is no conscience with them [ i.e. the Baha'is], they keep to no principle, they tell you what is untrue, ignoring or denying undoubted historical facts, and this is the character of both the leader and the led...As to morality and honesty, the whole system has proved disappointing...I have been in contact with many Baha'is, and have had dealings with many and have tested many, and unfortunately I have met not a single one who could be called honest or faithful in the full sense of these words..."

Publishing slander/libel by a mentally ill individual such as Terry Culhane - who also has a long, established track record of caving in to pressure from Haifan Bahai authorities and denouncing other friends on behalf of his cult - hardly counts as any decisive and conclusive judgement on my character or principles - however many times you cultists publish it online. When you find evidence of me having committed homicide, genocide or engaged in massive financial embezzlement and scam-artistry to the tune of 112 million US dollars, as your so-called prophet did and as most of you Haifan Bahais continue to do, then talk.  I've been at this with you cultists in various fora going on ten plus years now. For all your deranged organizational abuses and innumerable na-mardi, I have not flinched or compromised or caved in to you - all your abuses has actually made me stronger and more determined - and I am still standing as deadly and dangerous to you people as ever! That is a clear testament to my character, not what some battle scarred Vietnam veteran sucked into a cult had to say about an old friend he didn't have the courage, principle, backbone or fortitude to keep through thick and thin. When Terry Culhane went through his toughest time being grilled for thought-crimes by the Baha'i administraiton and as his daughter was diagnosed with a brain tumor, I loyally stood behind him and gave him unconditional moral support and strength to get through it. How did he repay me? He publicly put a knife in my back! So much for his assessement of my character, and so much for the worth of his friendship and that of any other Haifan Bahai.  

We Bayanis also DO NOT call ourselves Azalis because that is a term you Bahais fabricated and invented in order to denigrate us. We are Bayanis, i.e. followers of the Bayan, not Azalis. See www.bayanic.com But if you want to play it that way, so be it, allow me to begin calling you all Husayn-Alists, Abbas Effendists or Shoghists!

Dear Manuchehr, I am not averse to getting down and dirty and kicking a dirty hide whenever it's called for. Javab-i-ablahan khamushist, true, but there is also something to be said for going toe to toe with ablah bullies (male or female) and cutting them down to size for their own good  - like my childhood hero Muhammad 'Ali Clay used to do in the ring :) 

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Manuchehr Jaan...your no doubt agree that...

... a person's character refects his principles and so what you and others are observing is not likely to be influenced by your wise counsel.

NUR is left bereft of any sense of association from the Blessed Bab, whom the Baha'is revere. If he had a morsel of belief in his being, he would have made his debut on this site by first attracting readers to his beliefs and not defining himself as an angry and feuding blogger. 

He has not written anything about his beliefs and how it has helped in his life.  When you have something of value you would want to share it and not stuff it away.  In his case he should have stuffed it away. 

Controversy has always been the most effective means for garnering the attention of the masses, and in an indirect way inform.  In the process both people and facts are sullied.  What a shame indeed.

Now, back to the show...

Yours,

Alborz

PS. Now watch him attack me !

PPS. You should ask him why he is not an Azali (a follower of Azal) if he believes that Azal was the successor to the Bab. After all why does he call himself a Bayani (follower of the Bab).  This is for you to ponder and not for him to answer.

Nur;

Perhaps, some people are trying to distract you from your "rowshangaree".  You don't need to answer to the comments which talk about "zeereshekam".  Don't get personal, please.  Base your argument upon undisputable facts.  It is to everyone's benfit to be factual.

menage a trois Bahai style?

My God, you Tehrangeles Baha'i IT committee folk are something else!

Do you tell your husband about what you get up to in propositioning complete strangers, or is he into this sort of thing himself and likes to watch? Wouldn't surprise me because in Haifan Baha'i-Land you are dealing predominatly with ****s and ******s all over the place!

And if your Iranian.com community only comes together with such silly red herrings in the face of serious matters, no wonder no one in Iran wants to lift a finger anymore and actually get rid of the mullahs once and for all! With people like you they've already won the propaganda war!

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I think the end of the world has come:))))

Because The Mrs and I are on the same side and employed by the same Bahai agency:))))

The Mrs aziz, I have been laughing so loud that my husband had to come and see why I am laughing this way. As far as helping him, with you and souri jan together , I think it takes more than 3 of us to give him sanity!!

I really believe every thing that happens in life has a wisdom, and this situation's wisdom is that we all are seeing how ugly hate and prejudice is.

So thank you Nur ,for the laughs and bringing our Iranian. com community together.

Good night/day all,

Tahirih