Fighting Words

Say what???

muscle flexing against a bully can work. we don't know if it has yet. time will tell.

You don't say. Gee! We don't kow YET? We are under massive and very soon paralyzing sanctions. More muscle flexing at the expense of our own people's peace and social and economic instability? Just who the hell are we trying to impress here, The next two generation of Iranians?

What takes place as required by the situation is not at all even close the anything real, that is what is called opportunism. It is done as you say for domestic consumption, yet at the same time it does have real consequences paid for by the People of iran.

they are all ready to make amends

all this is posturing for domestic consumption. they are negotiating. iran will not go to war over this. in fact neither side needs war, and whatever is blurted out over the airwaves, real negotiations will take place as the situation requires it. right now they are strengthening their respective hands in whatever way they can. the sanctions pressure is about this in my view. if this is correct, your theory about the regime's tactics faces some questions. muscle flexing against a bully can work. we don't know if it has yet. time will tell.

NP

OnlIran said it very well. There is a price to all things. The price of the hostages was 8 billion $ plus an imposed war. I don't think it was worth it. The price of constantly teasing Israel may be an attack; I don't think it is worth it.

The brain trust behind the 1979 revolution were West haters. They had their reasons. The 1953 coup. They never forgave the Shah or the USA for it. Somehow they let the biggest evil the British off the hook and but I digress. So they wanted to give the USA  a finger. They did and ordinary Iranians paid for it. What good came out of it? Revenge is a bad thing. It nurtures anger and hatred and rots the soul of a person. The hate in the hearts of revolution leaders doomed it. It also doomed a generation of Iranian people.

We had enough, now it is time to be conciliatory; make friends. That is beyond IRI.

NP

First, you're arguing in circles.  I said, let's assume that everything that the U.S. did before the revolution by way of interference in Iran was accurate, and I cited Chile and Vietnam as other examples (Vietnam as an extreme example).  But the whole point is: let's move on...but you keep coming back to the same thing.

Second, your "son" example is not appropriate.  My son wouldn't be responsible for the welfare of 70 million people.  But let's use me as an example.  If I see a bully who is a thousands times more powerful than me, and I know that teasing him will mean that my family will be harmed, I will back the fuck off and think of an alternative way of dealing with him.  I sure as hell wouldn't hold his family hostage for 446 days--especially if that bully was prepared to make amends with me...like the U.S. was back in 1979.

conflict is the engine of history, and very healthy for humanity

I know I am being off topic, but had to say, as a reader mentioned the conflict.

In essence, the coflict that modern day Iranian bus drivers, oil workers, unemployed/unpaid factory workers are having with khalifa khamenei's islamist regime, can be routed back directly to the same conflict that Spartacus and his galdiators had with Romn emperors. So nothing personal against Roman emperor or Khgalifa khamenei, just the way human civilisation works and evolves.

Having said that , I still like to see khamenei living for a few more years , so I can be at the front row watching him being hanged in front of the syrian embassy. 

If my

son war being bullied I would:

•  First make sure he is not deliberately teasing the bully. IRI is deliberately asking for it. Others said: burning USA flag; chanting death to America; funding terrorism ..
• Talk to the authorities and bring pressure. In this case the UN but IRI is so hated it gets no help.
• Get friends on his side so he won't have to go alone against the bully.
• If all else fails get well armed and prepared. Make sure he has a real good chance of winning. Then hit him when he is not expecting it and get him real good.

IRI fails in all of the above. It has no hope and should give up. Might as well save some lives of innocent and patriotic soldier who do not deserve death.

onlyiran, vpk

iran is not the only one that has 'done' things. if anything, the us has a much longer history of interfering with iran's internal and regional affairs. the middle east is our region, not the americans'.

the revolution itself was a reaction to american interference in iran.

it is a dog eat dog world. no doubt about it. hopefully you and i will be able to add to the civilising effect that should grow in time. i guess it has. not always in the right direction, but things change. one day lynching and stoning are the norm and the next they are unacceptable.

the way things can get better is not through conflict. of course conflict may lead to something 'better' but at what cost and is it sustainable?

now to the core of the issue: if it were your own son who was being bullied at school, you would encourage him to be diplomatic, clever And strong. you know bullies need to be challenged. this reaction toward our own sons is based on love and a deep desire for the problem he is facing to be resolved. we would not want our children to turn into bullied wretches. because we love and respect them. but do we encourage them to make trouble and tease the bully? of course not. on the other hand, we do not abandon them either. that would be even worse.

Peace

well said Amir and OnlyIran

Let us not forget those inside Iran who do not put Iran first, and try to deflect blame.  We will never move forward until we deal with our own issues first.

IRI supporters historical misuse of Operation Ajax

Third, let's assume that the whole business about the U.S. hand in the 1953 coup and thereafter is true.

The overthrow of Mosaddeq, whatever you may think of him, had both external and internal factors. The external ones were the CIA and MI6. The internal ones were the opposition of right-wing elements inside Iran to Mosaddeq. These right-wing elements included monarchists, but also Islamists. The falling out between Ayatollah Kashani and Mosaddeq was an important factor in the events leading up to the overthrow. Kashani, as well as the ultra-reactionary Fadaiyan-e Eslam of Navvab Safavi supported Mosaddeq's overthrow. The IRI considers Kashani as the "real hero" of that period not Mosaddeq. And Safavi (who murdered Ahmad Kasravi and other prominent Iranians) has been feautured on the IRI's postage stamps. He also acted as a mentor of sorts to Khomeini himself. So, for IRI supporters to invoke 1953 is rank hypocrisy, since their camp supported Mosaddeq's overthrow.

Onlyiran

Marvelous. Excellent. Flawless.

Now if anyone will have any objection whatsoeverto the course of events, or would want to justify anything after reading this, Will need to definitely re-examine their Psychological health, and No i don't mean going to Dr. Phil. i mean seeing a real Medical doctor.

Good job.

NP

First of all, the IRI is not some drunk asshole that just runs its mouth at a bar, or a sexy girl wearing Daisy Dukes and a bikini top at an all male, drunken frat party.  It has actually DONE things to the U.S. to provoke it, and it has--remarkably-- gone out of its way to do so in light of its limited power and resources.

For one thing, in response to America's overtures for conciliation right after the revolution, it held U.S. diplomats hostage for 446 days.  It then armed, funded and equipped (and some say even planned) Hezbollah and its suicide attack at the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon, which killed more than two hundred American soldiers--the largest single day casualty for U.S. marines since Iwo Jima (itself an act of war).  It next funded, trained and provided refuge to terrorists such as Imad Moghniyeh who hijacked American airliners and killed U.S. citizens on board.

Now, if you were the U.S., what would you do have done in response?  Wouldn't you have supported IRI's enemies, such as Iraq?  I tell you, if you look at what the IRI did back in the early 1980's objectively, you will come to the inevitable conclusion that given its overwhelming military advantage, the U.S. actually showed quite a lot of restraint in dealing with the IRI's mullahs. 

Second, let's assume that the IRI is a shy, quiet kid who is being bullied by the neighborhood bully.  As unfair as it may sound, this is how the world works.  This is reality.  As I said in my blog, it's a doggy dog world.  It's always been like this, and it will always remain like this, and mullah's belligerence will not make it a "better world". The IRI as a government (let me finish laughing for a second...OK, I'm done) has a responsibility to protect the interests of the 70 million people that it unfortunately rules.  If protecting their interests means coming to terms with its inferiority in terms of military and/or economic power and striking the best deal for its people, then so be it.  Every country in the world, (well, with the exception of Cuba and North Korea) including the U.S. itself as does so on some level.  You cannot run a country with a militant ideology.     

Third, let's assume that the whole business about the U.S. hand in the 1953 coup and thereafter is true. So what? As I said in a comment below, the IRI could have actually used that to its advantage and negotiated a "truce" with the U.S. on its terms.  Even if everything was true about that whole affair, was is really worst than what the U.S. did in Chile, or in Vietnam for God's sake?  Both of those countries have moved on (Chile immediately) and re-established relations with the U.S. for the benefit of their people, which is something the militant IRI mafia will never understand.  

NP

Iran is not a person; it is a nation occupied. By an anti-Iranian gang bent on her destruction. I am not going to make excuses for an attack: It is wrong. But to attack Iran USA needs excuses. The IRI is providing them.

Just like two kids in a playground. The smaller kid asks the big bully if he is strong enough. Then insults his manhood and call him a sissy. The big boy wants to prove he has balls. Then tries to stare the smaller kid down. The smaller kid spits at him. The other kids laugh at the big bully. The bully is now in danger of losing his respect. What do you think he does? He beats the shit out of the smaller kid. This is not a matter of right or wrong. It is the law of the apes we all are.

but who

is the violator in such a case? which side would you 'blame' if you were a member of the jury?

Well, if they go walking in boy's shower room and yell

I hate you, I hate you, I want to kill you! Yeah, you bet, they'll go gaga on them.

No, a sane woman does not go in a shower room full of men all naked and ready.

addressing your 'conclusion'

if iran is attacked it is because she was asking for it. the attacker will have been coaxed by a nasty nasty iran that was a bad bad girl intent on being attacked.

for all practical purposes, iran is like lady gaga and beyonce walking into the common shower room of a boy's boarding school or even a prison.

yes rape is illegal, but she obviously 'wants' to get raped, and don't you dare criticise the boys.

is this the moral of this blog, onlyiran? that rape is actually justified once in a while?

Javad

and the other West residing Islamist / Marxits IRI supporters are never reesponsible. They like all the "intellectuals" are used to living off other people. They get real rightous about things.

They want justice but are not up to figting for it. They like to blame other people.

When their side is in power and screws up it is other people's fault. When other side is in power they whine. If we got 5 % inflation under Shah it was the end of the world. But 30 % inflations under IRI is just the price of fighting the evil imperialists.

In other words they are parasides: children of the 60's who never grew up. But now no one pays attention to them. So they scream in anger.

Non-sense

Non-sense.  Anytime you use e-mail, phone, etc., NOTHING is private.

Your uncle (Sam) knows everything.  So, no, he did NOT hide it.  Several people knew it and they are testifying for him.  So there you have it. :-))

Well said VPK about the leftist / socialists

The biggest cowards in Iranian history are the leftist / Marxists intellectuals.

And the worst thing is that they will rather die (or have other people die for them in their case) than to admit they were wrong in bringing the Khomenism menace upon us.   

Actually, your "baradar" did hide it

There have been interests to communicate with Iranian officials.  At least Baradar Trita did not hide it otherwise you or I wouldn't know.

Actually, your "baradar" did hide it.  The dirt came out when he sued Hassan Daeieslam (himself a sleaze bag)  and had to fork over his private emails in the lawsuit. :-))

OnlyIran

You and I both know that "IRI"; "Moosir.."; "KM" and the other IRI groupies will stay here. They are absolutely no intention of going and fighting th West. The biggest cowards in Iranian history are the leftist / Marxists intellectuals.

They will fight to the last drop of other people's blood. The "cause" demands lives but not theirs. They are too important. They must blow the horn that and other people to misery. Meanwhile they won't be there. Their "latte" may get cold which is unthinkable.

That's right "Javadagho"...it's all our fault..

we have been ruling Iran for the past 30 years and trying to pick a fight with the rest of the world so that we can free our beloved "Ghods". :-))

And as far as your buddy, Mr. "Parsi", I don't have a problem with him writing a book.  What I do have a problem with is his pimping of IRI's ambassador to congressmen in D.C.  Ever heard of that little affair? 

What the HELL!! . . . Duh!!

What the HELL!!

How about Iran contra . . .  Ex President Reagan said . . .  we made money selling arms to Eye-ranians and used the profit to fund contra's.

Not all congress members are under influence of AIPAC.  Ask Fred.  He can write a blog about this.

There have been interests to communicate with Iranian officials.  At least Baradar Trita did not hide it otherwise you or I wouldn't know.

OK to "meddle" if set up meetings w/ IRI's ambassador & Congress

Was Baradar Trita Parsi "researching" his book when he helped set up meetings between the IRI's UN ambassador and Congress people? That sure is some helpful "research"  :-) W

Do not meddle in Iran if you are a moftkhor.

I am glad that members have recognized who MasoudA is with his posts.  He accused the leader of NIAC not to be an Iranian, and at one time he did not like his looks.

Onlyiran, the leader of NIAC created a Swedish organization before NIAC.  He used that experience to create NIAC.  Look at the organization not the person.  He interviewed Israeli, Iranian, and USA officials for his book.  What is he supposed to do? Use e-mail to ask questions?  Are you out of your mind?

If Iran is in this fix is because of people such as you, Fred, and MasoudA and others with similar mentality who are hiding in the USA and wishing others pave the road for them.  Sorry, I forgot to mention Shah Reza nim Phalavi.  I do not see you questioning him where he got the money to send his daughter to private school and pay $30,000 a year. 

Bottom line: Do not meddle in Iran if you are a moftkhor.  Thank you.

massoudA listen to yourself

you sound like the typical exiled iranian dreamer who thinks he knows more than anyone else! of course to a dreamer, facts dont mean much. if anything, facts will make you more defensive. so i wont bother arguing with you. have a wonderful day.

"Onlyiran Your not joining won't hurt NIAC"

Great.  Then don't solicit me. :-)

BTW, why is it that we need this dubious character to get off the boat from Sweden, and all of a sudden become the head of the "National Iranian American Council".  For one thing, he's not even an Iranian American.  The guy only has a green card.  So, how could he possibly be the head of the "National Iranian American Council"?  Isn't that false advertising?  :-)

And how come we need this character to be our leader fresh off the boat from Sweden?  There are no qualified Iranian Americans here?  We have to import this dubious character with his dubious connections? 

AND, BTW, why didn't he establish the National Swedish Iranian Council?  Why did he have to come to the U.S. to set up his shing ding?  Nothing suspicious there? 

Onlyiran Your not joining won't hurt NIAC

Sorry Abarmard...no can do...

cannot join an organization (NIAC) that was pimping the IRI UN ambassador around Washington , DC before shit hit the fan after the elections and showed the world the real savagery of the IRI, which, in turn, caused the NIAC founder and dubious Swedish / Iranian implant with ties to even more dubious characters with dubious ties inside Iran, to have an epiphany and suddenly "realize" that there are human rights violations in Iran...sorry, but no can do...

Rethink

"I think within hours from any attack - we shall cease to see any signs
of Rish or Akhoonds."

Not agreed. There are different mind sets in any class and mentality, clergies are no different. But to say that they will scape Iran or hide is not true. I actually think that they along with many of their followers fight to the last drop of blood. 

This blame game, if Iran does this US would do that, or vice Versa is useless today. What Iranians should do is to unite for lifting sanctions and bringing better life for the people of Iran. It's not our job to change governments and regimes but it's our responsibility to help human beings, and in this case Iranian citizens.

Joining NIAC and voicing our concerns to Washington is the best strategy on our table.

Blaming is easy and at this point won't solve our problems. Neither the Islamic Republic nor the US government are willing to sit and discuss terms on equal basis today. History is not on US side and recent actions by the IR is not too bright and humane either. For us then is to sit and realize that best action we can take is to care for the Iranians inside. 

Call your family and friends in Iran and ask them if they like to see sanctions or war threats to go on. Do what they tell you not what you think it's right for them.

If you haven't, joint NIAC and support a better way today. Become united.

Moosir & Piaz

You just made the point of the article -

If Iran is attacked and if there are any suffering imposed on Iranians - it is because of people like you with their shallow and hollow propaganda.   

Veild Prophet - You are absolutely correct.    I think within hours from any attack - we shall cease to see any signs of Rish or Akhoonds.   I estimate throughout Iran, we have about 1,000 who have no choice but to pick up arms - but those are people who have blood in their hands and have nowhere to run.