Parham

Au contraire: very interesting

So you are saying Iranians were ready for democracy and modernization and even Shah was not giving enough of it to them but they blindly followed a man who was the worst person on Earth and they magically became united behind him and were all fooled by him? What about the referandum? They were still fooled? What about a year after that? If so many iranians were so well educated and understood democracy, etc then how many people exactly was it that fooled them and how? Where did they get the power to derail so many millions of advanced democracy seekers? That makes no sense whatsoever! This is the explanation that most people who have not understood the 1979 event give but it is a very poor explanation and makes no sense. The fact is even TODAY, MOST Iranians prefer "Islam" over "democracy." But a lot of us don't want to admit it. Maybe we are even ashamed of it. But it is TRUE. 

To LOL

Pumpkin :-)

By mild I mean a more respecting regime ,less dogmatic and more democratic.I am 100% against a religious government and I am not "prescribing" such a government.All I am saying is that I doubt you can separate religion from politics in Iran.It's too deeply rooted. Iran is not ready for a democratic system like in France.A lot of work and preparation must be done. Iran is where Europe used to be many years ago.They used to burn people in Europe if they did not like their opinion. People saw the picture of their leader in the moon less than 50 years ago in Iran.Today people write letters to Imam Mahdi and throw it in Jamkaran well.Not all Iranians are religious to that extreme,but just go to Iran during Moharam ,take a look at people participating in "rozeh" ,"dasteh".People cooking and giving out "Nazri"...

In hopes of better days for Iran. This is just how I see it.You want an Iran with a "Mitraee" religion or a new empire...be my guest.It's your opinion based on your experiences and knowledge.I respect your opinion. The decision is in their hands IN Iran...

to Mehdi

"If our people and culture were compatible with idealistic democracy, then why did we took out Shah and replaced it with a less democratic system? "

That's just it! they were after full-fledged democracy that's why they helped topple the Shah otherwise Iran was doing not so bad economically and people had social freedom!

They were so fed up with the Shah's autocratic rule and lack of poltical freedom under his rule and Savak that they allowed themselves to be fooled by khomeini's (your Imam's) nice words/promises of democracy, freedom, equality for all, rule of law and civil society in Neuphle-le-Chateau and followed him without any doubts!

They never thought in a million years that they were replacing one dictatorship with another far worse! Khomeini had promised them that he and mullahs would all not seek any political office and would all go to Qum to preach! they had no idea in Islam there was such a thing as "Taqiah" meaning lying out of expediency when one's life in danger; not lying through one's teeth all the time to get what one wants which is what Khomeini did! do you want to deny that?! do you want to revise history?

Of course the progressive freedom seeking revolution of Iranian people was hijacked by Khomeini and his entourage!

It is more than obvious that when Khomeini took control of Iran he systematically killed off one after the other all his political opponents! Do you want to deny that as well and revise history to your liking?

Are you trying to tell me that all communists, socialists, fadayees, confederation people, nationalists, todeehis, even MKO people followed Khomeini because they all wanted a theocracy for Iran?!!!

You consider people mature but not mature enough to have real democracy?!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh boy!

To: Au contraire -

To Arash_1970

one wanting "Mild version of a theocracy" is like one wanting to be half pregnant.

Typically Parham

You made my day again. Young people are fighting and dying just for a piece of freedom, and you, Mr. fair-weather Iranian, want to discuss a cause, which doesn't exist.

My last try, maybe you can understand it this time: DEMOCRACY IS NOT THE OPPORTUNITY OFFERED IN 2009. YOU COULD GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND ADMIT, THAT IT RIGHT TO VOTE. IT'S TIME TO FIGHT; DEMOCRACY COSTS BLOOD.

To Mehdi

"You seem to always not realize that people also need to be prepared for that idealistic democracy. Why ask for something that is completely incompatible with the whole people and culture. It is like asking a two-grader to pick quantum physics instead of grade three. It would be nice but it is not practical."

Are you speaking "from your stomach" (so to speak iN farsi) Mahdi jaan?! Why incompatible with the whole Iranian pople and culture?!! when did we have a theocracy before 1979 in our history? more than a 100 years ago we had the progressive modernity-seeking Constituional revolution!!! remember!

Needless to remind you that a lot of people on this site alone, including "Abarmard" also thought it would be impossible to once again see millions of people out on Iran's streets protesting but IT DID eventually HAPPEN! didn't it?

People did have Islam before 19719 but without theocracy!

The revolution was for POLITICAL FREEDOM not for lack of Islam in Iran as mullahs and their lackeys STILL want to keep deceiving the people with!

Baba ey vallah! after 30 years, you still prescribe "A MILD THEOCRACY" for Iran! that is what mullahs in general will eventualy want to hold onto their power in Iran and the West to keep Iran always underdevelopped and backward!

What do you mean by "MILD theocracy"? do you mean that Rafsanjani should replace Khameneii as Supreme leader to mellow down the theocracy ?!!!

I got news for you sugar puss, unkbeknownst to you, people in Iran are a hell of a lot more avant-garde, smarter and progressive than you and I who have been supposedly living outside Iran in the free world all these years! Just take a trip to Iran if you can and you'll see for yourslef! quite astonishing!

Being religious and conservative does not necessarily translate into one wanting to live under a theocracy albeit a "mild" one!

besides it is not up to you, me or the lovers of the Islamist rule and theocracy on this site, it is up to people of Iran collectively to decide and I hope one day they get a chance to voice freely their wish and choice of government in an internationally supervised referendum!!

btw, we were practicing muslims before IRI and did become muslims because of IRI

I choose practical over ideal (impossible)

You seem to always not realize that people also need to be prepared for that idealistic democracy. Why ask for something that is completely incompatible with the whole people and culture. It is like asking a two-grader to pick quantum physics instead of grade three. It would be nice but it is not practical. 

Au contraire

Gol e baba :-)

I said "in my opinion".I think that means "my opinion".People dressing a certain way is no sign of a secular regime pumpkin :-) Millions are in the steets today defending Moussavi.Iran is not a place for me to live in anymore.I love that piece of land and I want the best for it. I think a mild version of a theocracy is what will eventually take place.

I have been in Iran twice in the past three years.You are right ,Iranians way of dressing has changed from 20 years ago.They wear modern clothes ,no more green army jackets ,etc but religion is deeply rooted in Iran. Moharam , tassoa ,ashoura ,etc are no joke and taken very seriously amongst the middle to lower class segment of Iran.

Religion does belong in the hearts and that's where it is in Iran.Deeply rooted.Iranians are not as dogmatic as Arabs or the Taliban of Afghanistan but Iranians have a great connection with Islam.A strange connection and that is why me and you are sitting here writing to each other in English on a website thousands of miles away from our homeland.

My persian literature jackass teacher Mr Gohari used to tell us when we were kids in IRAN : "Arabs did attack us ,they did loot our country but they gave us a great gift and that was Islam".

Basically what I am saying is that I don't think Iranians are yet convinced that Islam is the cause of their troubles.I think they believe Islam is being abused.

Why don't you go play a round of Golf to relax :-) Iran is not a place for you and me but we love it.

reply to au contraire

Arash is answering a question. He is speaking his opinion. He never said he was speaking for all Iranians. If you have an opinion, speak it. And trust that no one will accuse you of speaking for everyone either. So quick to jump on someone!!!!! The man even says "in my opinion". Besides, much of what he say is true. Iran IS a muslim country. Whether young men and women want more freedom in their religion and/or country is one thing but Iran is a Islamic country. Accepting it is one thing, but as you yourself say, being dictated by it is something else.
Parham. I don't think true democracy exists in the modern global political arena. No country really governs under a true democracy. But anything is better than nothing... nes pa?

Arde

Besides the reply that Anonymous4646654654 gave you (!), which was actually more than fine by me, I'd like to say this:

Democracy is not as complicated as so many make it sound. It could just mean "hame bazi" -- everybody plays. It doesn't need "small incremental steps" to get there, nor "going through renaissance" (both of which arguments I've heard).

It could just mean "let's assure that everything is decided based on a voting system where all votes are counted, and everybody votes" and of course, where there's no screening and northing's based on bias (race, religion, etc.)

Why I'm asking the question is because at this juncture, whether Iranians realize it or not, they CAN ask for 'real' democracy and make it possible if they aim for it. Only, it seems they're asking for the IR version instead. Meaning they could LOSE, once again, their chance to obtain democracy. It's at critical times like these that one may wonder whether Iranians really do want democracy or not.

To Arde

Real democracy is above all, respect for basic fundamental human rights based on the universal declaration of human rights to which Iran still remains a signatory, Real democracy is equality among all citizen of a country regardless of their gender, religion, beliefs, sexual orientation, etc., etc., it means freedom of press, it means freedom of speech, it means freedom of expression, it meand freedom of assembly! It means rule of majority over minority BUT with maintenance and respect of minority's rights!

To Arash_1970: Please SPEAK for yourself not for 70 million!!!!

As a tiny little example of how SECULAR the new generation of Iran are, just take a look at the way young people dress in Iran! JUST Look
at the way girls wear their scarves!

How many times has it been since the start of the revolution that the so called moral police has cracked down, beaten up on and imprisoned young people for the way they look/dress and failed?!!!

Apparently, they don't want Islam to dictate to them how to dress, let alone live their lives!!! yes majority of Iranians are muslims but that does not necessarily mean that they want a religin based state ANY LONGER PERIOD

can't you tell? next time you go to Iran, open your eyes dear!!

Religion must get back to where it belongs into the hearts of people! there it earns and keeps its respect!

Believe me Iran is not Saudi Arabia, neither Afghanistan nor Iraq! NEVER was!

Democracy

Parham Jon:

What is REAL Democracy, and where can you find one? USA, India, Sweden?

Real Democracy any day...

As much as I hate anything or anybody that has ever collaborated, supported, or associated with the Evil Islamic Republic, I must say, if Mir Houssein Mousavi is the catalyst for a true uprising and change for Freedom and democracy for Iran and Iranians, then more power to him and his supporters.

Free Iran va Irani

The choice is clear but...

I think the choice is clear ,I would choose a real democracy ,a secular government but...

Religion is deeply rooted in Iran.Religion is present in people's everyday life.I think in my opinion if you create a democratic Islamic Republic they will accept it. Let's face it :IRAN is an Islamic country ,wether we like it or not...who cares what we used to be ,etc..all the kings ,etc are dead.Great legacy ,great pride but today's Iran is a muslim country.