Roozbeh_Gilani

Re points

Dear RB, the issue of Pakistani internal politics and the U.S. influence in that regard is quite complicated. It goes back to the Cold War policies of CIA and toppling of the then pro-secular PM/president, Z.A. Bhutto and his execution in a CIA-backed coup by the Islamist General Ziaolhaq in late 70s. In accordance with the U.S. policy of promoting political Islam, with financial help from Saudis and directions from CIA, Ziaolhaq created the infamous religious schools, aka Madrasas, in which the present day members of Taliban received idological and military training from childhood! However, with the end of the Cold War and improvement of U.S./India relations, Pakistan lost its importance for Americans, hence looking elsewhere to China for strategic alliance and Saudis for financial/ideological support in the past decade or so! That said, Pakistan's competition with India over influence in Afghanistan coupled with genuine Islamist tendencies within the ranks and files of its military has created a chaotic situation in dealing with Taliban!

With regards to feasibility of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, one should think beyond the dollar figures and consider the strategic importance of securing the energy resources and corridors of the region while keeping the competition at bay! Otherwise, a declining power such as U.S. would have to sit around and watch  its regional foes like China, and to a lesser extent Russia, seal lucrative deals with its oil-rich allies while Iran, and again Russia, build pipelines from Caspian and caucasus to Europe and Persian Gulf!

"Pipeline-Istan" by: Pepe Escobar

Nothing of significance takes place in Eurasia without an energy angle

The Real Afghan War

In
the ever-shifting New Great Game in Eurasia, a key question -- why
Afghanistan matters -- is simply not part of the discussion in the
United States. (Hint: It has nothing to do with the liberation of Afghan
women.) In part, this is because the idea that energy and Afghanistan
might have anything in common is verboten.In the case of Afghanistan, keep in mind that Central and South Asia have
been considered by American strategists crucial places to plant the
flag; and once the Soviet Union collapsed, control of the energy-rich
former Soviet republics in the region was quickly seen as essential to
future U.S. global power. It would be there, as they imagined it, that
the U.S. Empire of Bases would intersect crucially with Pipelineistan in
a way that would leave both Russia and China on the defensive.

//www.alternet.org/world/139983/pipeline-ista...

OK,

I can see your line of reasoning and it definitely has some plausibility in it and I certainly agree that the Americans tried dealing with the Taliban after they took power in Afghanistan (though again I'd distinguish between that and being behind the creation of the Taliban).

Couple of points though, and I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts on these:

1- No doubt the US has been funding Pakistan for a long time and  must've had at least an idea the Pakistanis were busy setting up the Taliban in the early 1990s.

Why do you suppose now that the US has been in conflict with the Taliban for 10 years, a conflict that has cost the US hundreds of billions at time economic downtrun, and has an increasing potential to finally lead to an embarrassing withdrawal from Afghanistan, Pakistan or at least elements in the Pakistani intelligence/military are continuing to support the Taliban, much to the open anger of the Americans? Point being, do you believe the Americans still have as much influence over countries like Pakistan as they used to?

2- The issue of the pipeline and indeed the wider assertions by many about American interventions in the region as a whole, inc Iraq, being essentially about commercial considerations and control of oil/gas etc; how much credence do you believe this has when, as I mentioned above, economically this has been a disaster for the Americans in terms of how much it has cost them?

I mean I don't know, I look at companies like Halliburton (Cheney and pals' cash cow) and think yes they did make some serious money out of Iraq, but even that is a drop in the ocean compared to the colossal sums the US government has been burning through in Iraq and Afghanistan. An estimate talks about nearly $4trillion, I say that again 4 trillion dollars, blown on these wars a time when the country is running a record deficit of around $12trillion (see link below). Where is the economic sense in that?

//www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2009371/Iraq-Afghanistan-Pakistan-wars-US-cost-3-7trillion-258k-lives.html

Re U.S. and Taliban

Dear RB, it would be a little too simplistic to assume that the Saudis financial support and the Pkaistani army (funded heavily at the time by U.S.) collaborating with the Tliban were without the consent of the U.S. much less against its will! Are we talking about Pakistani air force pilots flying fighter-bombers of Taliban (who had no flight experience) and carpet bombing the entire Afghanistan without the knowledge of the U.S. media, let alone American military intelligence?!

I'm not sure if you've heard of the New Great Game, but it involves a firce competition between the regional powers over the pending Trans-Afghan proposed pipeline in which U.S. and its NATO allies have taken the upper hand after their invasion of Afghanistan! I provided a link to a report in that reagrd which you might have overlooked or thought of as a conspiracy theory which you have an absolute right to do. But that is a reality on the ground which BTW is not highly publicized at the moment, yet will become more of common knowledge in the next two to three years.

Another fact is that U.S. maintained close contact with the Taliban and even provided it with financial aid up to shortly before 9/11. Below are some more links to reports and articles in that regard:  

//www.guardian.co.uk/business/2003/oct/20/oil

//www.rferl.org/content/article/1109618.html

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Afghanistan_Pipeline

//www.counterpunch.org/2001/11/06/underwriting-the-taliban/

Allendeh Democractic Gove. was an illusion

"where you get the idea I live in London. I don't. " Tabarzin

The above clip says that "I live in London". Just listen to the above video. It says at the begining. No worry. Elizabeth Allendeh also lives in "free world" or America.

Over the years I talked to many Chileans. They were all agreed the economy was trouble during Allendeh presidency. Only leftist still trying to make something out of nothing. Left had no connection with mass or those native americans whom you mentioned in your comment. That was the reason that all those turtures, forceful disappearances didn't affect general population of Chile. Life was going on as normal while the opponents of Pinochet were forcefully disappeared or they were thrown to the ocean by army helicopter. I read from Rene Castilo as a teenager. I don't know where she is about these years, but for sure she was able to see the collepse of Soviet Union in 1988.

Dear Siavash:, if the last shah had borrowed a leaf off British

 Royal family's book of"how not to lose your head as a king", then who knows, we might had not have the 1979 revolution and JJ would not have started this site! You see you are raising a valid point in a way. From Karl Marx, To Trotsky, Lenin and our own Ali Shariati, once in troble would find no better place of refuge than the heart of despicable capitalism, England! Some argue, precisely due to this relatively accomodating nature of British democratic system, there still is a Queen in that land. Something to take note of if I were a Monarchist...

Zendanian: Loved the Neruda poems and links, thank you so much Rafigh....

Reality Bite: Thank you for the correction my friend, you are right. And salvador is not offered on netflix. Surprise, surprise!

Arj: "Allende was a softy who was going to sell Chile to the Tudeh party...", Priceless, really funny! 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Siavash300

You live in fantasy land. Pinochet's military junta only economically benefitted a specific class of Chileans, and that was the upper middle-class: a ruthless class of economic parasites that pushed Chile's economy over the edge - twice (once before Allende was elected and now more recently). Pinochet's rule destroyed the Chilean labor movement and the unions, and made its economy into a comprador economy turning most of Chilean industry dependent on foreign investment. It further impoverished the Native Indians and brought in foreign corporations into Chile that to this day are exploiting resources on traditional Amerindian lands and in some cases even commiting forcible relocation and genocide of these natives. I dare you to go to Chile itself and say this revisionist nonsense you are saying!

And I don't know where you get the idea I live in London. I don't.

Double post!

..

Arj

I'm not sure I altogether agree with you on US supporting Taliban to take over Afghanistan, at least not in any tangible way. US armed, funded and materially supported the various Mujaheddin factions (including Bin Ladin's) fighting the Soviets until 1991/2 after the Soviets had left and their Communist backed regime fell.

There was no Taliban, in the sense of a powerful military force, in Afghanistan at that point. And the Americans pretty much ended their material support to the Afghans there and then. It was later, when post-Communist Afghanistan once again descended into factional chaos/conflict (between the likes of Shah Massoud and Gulbbudin Hekmatyar) that Taliban, created and supported by Pakistan training/logistical help and Saudi Wahabi cash and ideology, took advantage of the situation and fought their way in.

There is a lot to blame the Americans for, but I'm not sure if the rise of the Taliban to power is one of them.

A message for the writer of the letter in this clip

Luis Corvalan settled in Moscow following the coup and stayed there till 1988 returned to Chile. He was a man of his words and his ideology. Now, if you are the man of your words, you should have immigrated to Soviet Union and settle there instead of residing in London. That is hypocricy my friend. You can't be critical of Pinocheh and western world and at the same time choose to settle in "Free World" or rather U.K. You with your action, not by your words, approved of superiority of pro western establishments such Pinocheh over other form of government so called "Mosaddeq Democratic Government" ..Did I say Mosaddeq? ..sorry I mean ... "Allendeh Democratic government".!!!  

This whole

"aspiration of freedom" is a pile of ***. I am sorry but I have seen more people suffer because of it. I wish Iran did have a military coup in 1979. The reason it failed was because Jimmy betrayed them to Khomeini his holy man.

Otherwise Iran would have done very well. Talk is cheap and people like to say "freedom". But what about reality and what really happens. Most the time these freedom fighters create disasters. Watch narcostate Kosovo.

It got created by force of West as a way to allow "freedom". Now the main freedom it brings it to drug lords. No thank you. Now whenever I hear of a "freedom" hear I want to vomit.

The New Great Game

NO! There was no CIA coup d'etat in Chile!!! It was a "Ghiam-e Melli" headed by general Pinochet with help from the peace-loving America. Allende was a softy who was going to sell Chile to the Tudeh party and Soviets!!! So what if a few thousand commies were killed?!!

However, on a more serious note, the U.S. foreign policy has always been about immediate profits with little foresight and consideration for the future consequences of actions taken to realize those profits. These interests have impelled the U.S. to support and prop up dictatorships and ignore and quash the democratic aspirations of numreous nations across the planet. This was not limited to the Cold War era, for the U.S. interests and its foreign policies still, directly and indirectly, help despotic rulers in Middle East and Africa to this day!

By the same token, the U.S. support for Taliban was not limited to the "freedom fighting" days, but it actually helped Tliban's bid to  take over the entire Afghanistan (with the help of Pakistani army and ISI) in the hope of paving the way for the then newly-proposed Trans-Afghan Pipeline. However, with Taliban proving to be too primitive and unreliable for a project of such importance and thanks in part to the Lion of Panjshir, Ahmad Shah Massud's formidable resistance in Northen Afghanisatn, Taliban was eventually taken out of the picture. That and catalysis of 9/11 helped the U.S. and its NATO allies to come to the conculsion to do away with Taliban altogether:

//moraloutrage.wordpress.com/2010/04/25/talking-points-on-the-trans-afghanistan-pipeline/

//coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/issue46/articles/real_reasons_oil_us_taliban_relations.htm

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=A__vw5Vuwp0&feature=player_embedded

It is sad, but there is a point.

It is sad to see people get killed either in studium in Santiago or in New York city. All these comments here are sharing (more the less) the same kind of view. None says anything about Chile's economy during 3 years when Alandeh was in his office. People were suffering. In such an economy kias, pro westerners  forces came to the picture. They were pro "free world", they had  upper hands over left wings during operation condor. One video was showing life was going on as normal situation while many were being tortured. Although there was tortures, killing and forceful disappearance (as it is in Iran these days).  In a long run and in a broader aspect, operation condor brought economy prosperity and success to Chile. Nobody can deny that. Any unbias person can testify that Chile progressed after fall down of Dr. Allendeh. 

On the contrary, in Vietnam, Cuba, north korea, the left wing forces had upper hands over pro westernes.  Now, we can easily judge what happened afterward. People in those countries are runing away to take a refuge in the "free world". One video was showing how people runing from the boader in north korea and soldiers were keep runing after them to bring them back. It is funny but that is the reality of those Allendeh type governments.  Similar situation is in Iran. Our people tremendously suffered during last 32 years. We can hypothesis that if Nogeh Coup was successful our people wouldn't suffered this much during these years. Our country would have been progessed. Of course some people would have been killed, but in a long run it would been in better shape than now. Our people are getting killed under mullahs' regime every day. If Nogeh coup was successful, our oil money wouldn't get wasted in southern Lebanon supporting terrorist groups of Hamas, Jihad Eslami or Hezbollahs. Our economy would have been progressed.   

RG jaan

Just a point of correction if I may, I believe 'Apocalypse Now' was a Francis Ford Coppola film and a great film it was too.

911 - Chile

دیکتاتورها: از پابلو نرودا

Pablo Neruda

Ha quedado un olor entre los cañaverales:
Una mezcla de sangre y cuerpo, un penetrante
Pétalo nauseabundo.
Entre los cocoteros las tumbas están llenas
De huesos demolidos, de estertores callados.
El delicado sátrapa conversa
Con copas, cuellos y cordones de oro.
El pequeño palacio brilla como un reloj
Y las rápidas risas enguatadas
Atraviesan a veces los pasillos
Y se reúnen a las voces muertas
Y a las bocas azules frescamente enterradas.
El llanto está escondido como una planta
cuya semilla cae sin cesar sobre el suelo
y hace crecer sin luz las grandes hojas ciegas.
El odio se ha formado escama a escama,
Golpe a golpe, en el agua terrible del pantano
Con un hocico lleno de légamo y silencio.

*************
دیکتاتورها
از پابلو نرودا

بوئی درمیان ساقه های نیشکر باقی است
آمیزه ای از خون و بدن
گیاه نافذی که تهوع می آورد.
درمیان درختان نارگیل و
گورها ی سرشار از استخوان های پوسیده
و تلق و تلق بی صدای مرگ
دیکتاتور حساس و ظریف سخن میگوید
با کلاه های شاپو ، منگوله های طلایی ویقه های آهاری
قصر باریک مثل یک ساعت سو سو میزند
و خند ه های سریع دستکش بدست
از کریدورها سرساعت میگذرند و به صداهای مرده
و دهانهای آبیرنگ که تازه دفن شده اند می پیوندند
گریه دیده نمی شود
مثل گیاهی که دانه هایش لاینقطع روی زمین می ریزند
و برگهای بزرگ کورش حتی بدون نور رشد میکنند
نفرت ، جمجمه به جمجمه روئیده است
وزش به وزش در آب هولناک مرداب
با پوزه ای پرازلجن و سکوت

**************

برای ویکتور خارا و آن غروب ۱۱ سپتامبر ۱۹۷۳

اگر
می دانید برای چه به این صفحه آمده اید، اگر نمی توانید اینجا را ترک کنید
و اگر نمی توا نید بمانید، آنگاه است که ویکتور خارا را دوست دارید.

یاریم دهید این صفحه نیمه تمام را کامل تر و بارورتر سازم.

سپتامبر
1973 است. اینجا سانتیاگو دو شیلی است. دسته های نظامیان، چماقداران و
مزدوران آمریکایی، پیروزمندانه خیابان ها را اشغال کرده اند. دستگیری ها
شروع شده است. 5000 نفر را در استادیوم ورزشیEstado de Chile
گردآورده و زندانی کرده اند؛ روشنفکران، دانشجویان، سوسیالیست ها، کمونیست
ها و همه طرفداران دولت مردمی سالوادور آلنده و شاعران و هنرمندان. ویکتور
خارا نیز در میان آنهاست. روزها با شکنجه می گذرد.

//aghaejaze.wordpress.com/%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%A7%...

Thanks for comments, friends.

Mammad: Thanks for further info. I see a lot of parallels between operation Condor in Chile and Operation Ajax in Iran. Dont you?

Bavafa: Yes, let us not forget Innocent Iranian and Iraqis who lost their lives because of two power hungry dictators.

Tabarzin: I believe that military invasion of Iraq was wrong. Afghanistan was to a large degree a mess created by USA foreign policy itself,  the policy of a green belt of islamist states (which included the islamist republic of Iran) to combat Soviet spread eastwards. I want to be clear though, this blog is not an anti american blog.  If you watch the video carefully, The chilean man displays no grudges against american people. He talks to them directly. There is no hate there. Instead There is solidarity and genuine attempt for unity of people against tyranny. I hope it makes sense...

Truthseeker9: Glad you enjoyed this video.

Maziar: Glad you liked this clip, thank you. Yes, chile is a great country, with great people, very similar to us Iranians actually. And you know, they make fantastic wine too:)

VPK: Yes, Al-Qaeda,  was and still is responsible for countless atrocities..

Reality Bites: I have seen fewof Oliver Stone's films and liked them all (Apoclypse now, Platoon..) But have not seen Salvadore. I trust it must be a good film if you say so. Good reason to put my $7.50/month on demand netflix subscription to good use :)

The mess

Got started long before the 80s. It was just that up to 1979 we had it safe. The Shah was a good "pro USA" leader. Iran as a result was safe and in peace. Once Shah was gone we got a taste of what other nations had.

Sometimes you are better off with the so called "puppet". At least we had peace and prosperity. Once the nuts got to power there was war and no freedom. Thank all the idealists "democrats" for this wonderful gift.

The US

Sure made a mess of things in the 1970s  & 1980s Latin America. In its obsession with countering Soviet threat everwhere, it chose to back tyrannies every bit as awful as those controlled by its cold war foe.

RG, have you seen the Oliver Stone film "Salvador"? In my view it is the best Stone has ever made and it gives a retty good snapshot of the kind of terrible regimes backed by the US of A.

Taliban & al-CIA-duh

Are direct outcomes of American foreign policy during the administration of Ronald Reagan. FYI

Re: Let us remember the hundreds of thousands (millions)

We might as well remember the victims of Taliban. All the Tajik and Hazara murdered as well as women deprived of an education. Of course we have Jimmy Carter to thank for it. At least Obama has put a stop to it.

ATTENTION

All IC comentators freedom of speech is on sale on aisle 3(read se).

PLEASE do not put your 2 cents on ..............

thanks mr. Roozbeh for the beautiful video about one of my favorite country in the world and you know chile is exactly opposite side of Iran on the globe and if you dig deep enough in ahwaz you may end up somewhere near santiago!

Maziar

Roozbeh jaan

Interesting blog. Thanks for posting.

Let us remember the hundreds of thousands (millions)

Of innocent lives lost to the predatory and genocidal Fourth Reich American war-machine in Afghanistan and Iraq. Let us remember 14 year old Abeer Qasim Hamza and her family, raped and murdered in Mahmoudiyah.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8VBR608YjM

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_killings

//www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1211562,00.html

We shall all remember and mourn the victim of 9/11

Not only in 1973 or 2001 but also all the victims begining in 2003 in Iraq.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

A good example of U.S. bringing "democracy"

In addition to thousands killed in Chile's 9/11 - known as the other 9/11 - thousands also disappeared, meaning dead, but no bodies were found. They may have disappeared as part of Operation Condor,

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor

one of the most criminal operations against progressives over the last 100 years. 60,000 killed, with many thrown in the ocean from aircrafts high up, while still alive. Those who have not watched the movie "Missing" should. It is an excellent movie based on the murder of an American in Chile, because he knew that the CIA was behind the coup, and is a true story.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_(film)

But, Pinochet and his henchmen even committed terrorism here in the U.S., when they assassinated Orlando Letelier, an Allende minister, and his assistant Ronnie Moffitt in Washington in 1976 as part of Operation Condor.

So, those who count on the U.S. to bring democracy to Iran by military attacks and sanctions that only hurt the common people should read the history. Some might argue that these things happened during the Cold War, but look at what the U.S. has done since 1990s.

Mammad