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Who has killed the most Israeli?
17-Nov-2012
Some of our “learning” friends, who have never visited Israel or even read a single book on the subject, maintain a hateful attitude towards the Jewish State and believe that by destruction of Israel, Middle East will be the Paradise-on-Earth again! This entry level “course” on Israel is also for those, who naively think that Israel-loves-Iran or that Iran should love Israel … get rid of the mullahs and we will be able to live happily-ever-after together! Both sides need to open their eyes and smell the Moses.
Israel is a tiny country, but tough as nail, because it was born out of war, blood and fire. The agonizing route of Jewish people’s return to the nation of Israel, has taken them 2000 years and immeasurable pains and suffering. Even at the beginning of the 20th century, most Jews were adamantly against an independent Jewish state, because of their orthodox fear that, “only after the return of Moshe the savior, shall the Jews return to Erez Israel, or risk the wrath of Hashem who would let loose their enemies to hunt them like prey, all around the world.”
In early 1900’s, many of them sensed the rising anti-Semitism in their key homelands of Eastern Europe and Russia, but mostly thought that the solution was mass immigration to the Western world, especially Germany which many went on to affectionately and foolishly call “Jerusalem”. Well, we all know the sad ending to that story, eh?
Zionism as the doctrine to establish an independent Jewish state was born out of the Russian progroms, Polish atrocities and German holocaust. The original leaders were a bunch of idealists (mostly Socialists) who were harshly treated by even the mainstream of their own society, as atheists and outcasts. They were nobodies and had nothing, except for strong wills and rugged determination.
Those SOBs migrated to a harsh, barren and disease infested land, owned for 500 years by the Ottomans, and operated by the British after the 1st World War. They were mostly dewy-eyed Kibbutz settlers who dreamed of establishing a secular utopia, where the Jew and the Arab could live peacefully and happily together. On hindsight: what were they smoking?
But this world is created by courageous idealists, who don’t know their ass from their elbows, who foolishly try and fail and try again, until one of them succeeds. And the victor who succeeded was a little man with a giant head, call Ben-Gurion. And what a man he was! A boy shunned by his own family for harboring Socialist-Zionist ideals. A poor young man, toiling like a little slave on Ottoman lands. A restless agitator fighting the British, for the Jews fleeing the Nazi. The prophet of fire, who established the Nation of Israel, single-mindedly and against an array of friends and foes, all telling him not to declare independence!
Born out of the tear-and-blood of Holocaust, Israel was immediately attacked by everyone. The British hated it as the handy work of a bunch of leftist socialist agitators. The Arabs hated it as a land-grabbing scheme by the greedy Jews. The Communists hated it, as a diversion and agitation among their own Jewish population. So right after birth, everyone attacked Israel … and that confirmed the Jewish belief that they can only depend on themselves for survival.
Now, back to our original question: Who has killed the most Israeli? If you think that Islamists and Jihadists have been the worst enemies of Israel and have killed the most Israelis, then consider these facts:
1. All the Arab countries that attacked the new born Israel were “moderate” monarchies, including Egypt, Jordan, Iraq and Syria. Ten times more Israelis were killed during the 1948 independence wars, than all the following conflicts combined!
2. Even after overthrow of their “corrupt” kings, the new republics of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, etc. kept attacking Israel. Ten times more Israelis have been killed by the secular Arab republics in the 1956-73 period, than all the Islamist terrorist actions combined.
3. Even Israel’s supposedly BFF countries like Turkey and Iran, have eventually turned against them. Currently, the only existential threat to Israel comes from its longstanding “best-friend and natural ally”, Iran!
Therefore, Israel's survival in the tough Mid East neighborhood depends on maintaining a position of undisputable and fearsome power. Anything less than that, and Israel will be susceptible to all sorts of attacks.
For that reason, Israel cannot and will not ever trust another Mid East country, beyond a very cautious point. Israel can only behave like a porcupine, always with guards up and ready to attack ... attacks that can inflict bloody and expensive damage on any enemy willing to try and "wipe Israel off the map" ... and no shortage of those lunatics in the Middle East. Today, the message of Israel is very simple: “Don’t fuck with us, or we will fuck the Shiite out of you.” It behooves anyone dealing with the Jewish State, to keep that simple message in mind.
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The future is bleak for
by firstdayofmylife on Sun Nov 18, 2012 09:40 AM PSTThe future is bleak for Palestinians. Read the book Iron Wall.
Cut the crap Rozbeh !
by Soosan Khanoom on Sun Nov 18, 2012 09:36 AM PST!!
I agree with omidnoori.
by Roozbeh_Gilani on Sun Nov 18, 2012 09:27 AM PSTWhen she/he says:
"it is not what one says, it is what one does"
So omid joon: "Do" something instead of "saying" so much! Go to Gaza and fight the filthy zionists shoulder to shoulder with your hamas pals! and remember, dont forget to take your buddies "ashkan the kashkan" and soosi joon along for logistical support!
Now yallah ....
"Personal business must yield to collective interest."
They did live in peace way
by OmidNoori on Sun Nov 18, 2012 09:12 AM PSTThey did live in peace way before you were born. It all changed after you were born and grew up and started coming up with some crazy ideals to make that place all yours and stared to slaughter innocent people. After all you have done, now you dare to lecture others on right and wrong.
You must have seen the babies and children's killed by your Zionist regime and supported by you and your sane world. Now you can go write more and support yet another war.
Dear Shazde
by Faramarz on Sun Nov 18, 2012 08:51 AM PSTThank you for the blog and the historical summary of the state of Israel. I tend to agree with your facts and conclusions.
However, we need to move forward and support a two-state solution where both people can live in peace and harmony next to each other. Israelis and Palestinians should really look to some of the Iranian communities around the world where Iranian Jews, Muslims and others are fully integrated and are happy neighbors.
One of those model communities is Beverly Hills, California. Israelis and Palestinians should seriously look at that community and try to be more like that!
It is not what one says, it
by OmidNoori on Sun Nov 18, 2012 08:17 AM PSTIt is not what one says, it is what one does!!!
That is their land. Israelis don't belong there. Jews belong to Germany, Poland, Austria, France, etc. That is the fact. You cannot change that with your fiction..
Israel has always started these attacks first and killed as many as world has allowed them too. This is a disgrace to humanity, specially to Arabs. I extend that to the slaughters in Myanmar, Sudan and rest of the world.
Hamas's mission statement
by firstdayofmylife on Sun Nov 18, 2012 07:48 AM PSTHamas's mission statement is to destroy the Jewish state...You reap what you sow.
I did not insult you. Why do you insult me?
by Soosan Khanoom on Sun Nov 18, 2012 06:37 AM PSTSince when "Open Zion " is a Hezbollah agenda. And. Besides , Hezbollah is a party in lebenane not Palestine.
Indeed shame on me that even considered a civil discussion with you being a possibility... Indeed shame on me.
Indeed ...
What was I thinking? You have proven to me once again the level of your education.
and yes shame on Obama. He has failed both the Palestinians and ordinary Israelis ... Big time !
Shazdeh
by OmidNoori on Sun Nov 18, 2012 06:30 AM PSTZionist have killed the most Israelis/Jews. They have just used the Arabs and others to do the job.
Shazdeh, You are getting desperate. Accusing people of this and that is not going to help prove your points. To do that you must use true information, common sense and logic. But you seem to lack all three and think you can use the same methods of lie and force that Bibi is using.
Gooz Luck
Soosan K: thanks for playing the part of Hezbollah apologist
by Shazde Asdola Mirza on Sun Nov 18, 2012 05:29 AM PSTShame on Obama?
Shame on you and all the other Hezbollah apologists!
AsskhanM: thanks for airing the views of Hezbollah
by Shazde Asdola Mirza on Sun Nov 18, 2012 05:26 AM PSTBad Stories for Bad Kids
Did BiBi kill Jaabari to Prevent Peace?
by Soosan Khanoom on Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:22 PM PST"Dr. Gershon Baskin, the man who negotiated the release of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, says that assassinated Hamas military wing leader Ahmed Jaabari was involved in serious ceasefire negotiations when the Netanyahu regime killed him with an airstrike.
Both Israel and Hamas had decided months ago not to take action on my proposed ceasefire option, which included within it a mechanism that would prevent Israeli pre-emptive actions and would enable Hamas to prove that it was prepared to prevent terror attacks against Israel. Both sides responded very seriously to the proposal, but without any signal that there was an openness on the other side, neither was willing to advance the possibility for testing it.
Several weeks ago, I decided to try once again and, through my counterpart in Hamas, we both began speaking to high level officials on both sides. A few days ago I met my counterpart in Cairo and we agreed that he would draft a new proposal based on our common understanding of what was required to make it work.
Yesterday morning, hours before Israel assassinated Ahmed Jaabari, my counterpart in Hamas presented the draft to Jaabari and to other Hamas leaders. Senior Hamas leaders on the outside had already seen it and had instructed him to check the reactions to it in Gaza. I was supposed to receive the draft yesterday evening to present to Israeli officials who were waiting for me to send it to them.
That option is now off the table. Jaabari is dead and so is the chance for a mutually beneficial long term ceasefire understanding. Why did Benjamin Netanyahu do it? The cynical answer already offered by Aluf Benn in Haaretz is elections consideration. Cast Lead was also conducted before elections. Hitting Jaabari, according to Netanyahu’s thinking, would help him in the upcoming Israeli elections. Perhaps this is true, perhaps not."
…The assassination of Jaabari was a pre-emptive strike against the possibility of a long term ceasefire. Netanyahu has acted with extreme irresponsibility. He has endangered the people of Israel and struck a real blow against the few important more pragmatic elements within Hamas. He has given another victory to those who seek our destruction, rather than strengthen those who are seeking to find a possibility to live side-by-side, not in peace, but in quiet.Ashkan, I know you are kidding!
by Soosan Khanoom on Sat Nov 17, 2012 09:55 PM PSTNow in a more serious note,
BiBi has hard time even accepting that. He does anything in his power against the establishment of a Palestinian state. BiBi is number one enemy to peace and should be kicked out of the office.
Also shame on Obama, he did nothing 4 years ago and it seems that he is not going to do a damn thing now either. This is the repeat of the same exact event. It seems that Israel celebrates Obama's presidency in this manner.
Yes, two state solution is
by AshkanM on Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:24 AM PSTYes, two state solution is the best option.
Underground for Israel and above ground for Palestine.
This will end the war forever.
Of course I know, I even
by Soosan Khanoom on Sat Nov 17, 2012 09:59 PM PSTOf course I know, I even wrote about it on this site in my comments more than a year ago, that how some Arab countries treated them but that is totally irrelevant here. That is still no match to the amount of them being killed by the Israelis ... I let you do the math ... of course, we only count the numbers that are reported ...you just double it .. at least
Hasn't it ever occurred to you that if their country had not been occupied they would have not been ended in Syria or Jordan? Or being in concentration camps and in the world's biggest prison known as Gaza !
There comes a day that Israelis will find out that they are not the center of the universe.... untill then they can break any laws they want.
What goes up must come down... the higher one gets the harder it hits the ground ..
Arab countries have killed the most Palestinians, of course
by Shazde Asdola Mirza on Sat Nov 17, 2012 08:26 PM PSTSosan Khanom: During Black September alone, Arabs killed some 10,000 of them in Jordan and Syria.
do you mean who has killed the most Palestinians ?
by Soosan Khanoom on Sat Nov 17, 2012 05:59 PM PSTThe following is just one incident among many since the creation of the state of Israel.
Dec 2008- Jan 2009
The conflict resulted in between 1,166 and 1,417 Palestinian and 13 Israeli deaths (4 from friendly fire).[52]
" The Foreign Press Association of Israel released a statement saying, "The unprecedented denial of access to Gaza for the world's media amounts to a severe violation of press freedom and puts the state of Israel in the company of a handful of regimes around the world which regularly keep journalists from doing their jobs."[435]
Thanks for the link and the typo
by Shazde Asdola Mirza on Sat Nov 17, 2012 04:33 PM PSTMashangjon: you are right about the typo.
Firstdayoflife: thanks for the good discussions.
Excellent
by firstdayofmylife on Sat Nov 17, 2012 03:56 PM PSTExcellent read:
//www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/11/the-iron-dome-press-bias-and-israels-lack-of-strategic-thinking/265360/
"
“What is Israel’s long-term strategy? Short-term, I understand: No state can agree to have its civilians rocketed. But long-term, do Israeli leaders believe that they possess a military solution to their political problem in Gaza? There is no way out of this militarily. Israel is not Russia, Gaza is not Chechnya and Netanyahu isn’t Putin. Even if Israel were morally capable of acting like Russia, the world would not allow it. So: Is the goal to empower Hamas? Some right-wingers in Israel would prefer Hamas’s empowerment, because they want to kill the idea of a two-state solution. But to those leaders who are at least verbally committed to the idea of partition, what is the plan? How do you marginalize Hamas, which seeks the destruction of Jews and the Jewish state, and empower the more moderate forces that govern the West Bank?
Here’s one idea: Give Palestinians hope that Israel is serious about the two-state solution. And how do you do that? By reversing the settlement project on the West Bank. It is not unreasonable for Palestinians to doubt the sincerity of Netanyahu on the subject of the two-state solution, when settlements grow ever-thicker. There’s no way around this: The idea of a two-state solution will die if Israel continues to treat the West Bank as a suburb of Jerusalem and Kfar Sava, and not as the future location of the state of Palestine.”""
Disclaimer: I don't agree with everything he says in this article.
You mean Russian Pogroms not
by Mashangjoon on Sat Nov 17, 2012 03:46 PM PSTYou mean Russian Pogroms not "programs"...
I think both side are
by firstdayofmylife on Sat Nov 17, 2012 03:21 PM PSTI think both side are dehumanized and demonized enough. The laws of diminsshing return will eventually set in as both sides become more militant and radicalized. However, War is a necessary evil before both sides agree on a two-state solution.
But two-state will not end the war ... will it?
by Shazde Asdola Mirza on Sat Nov 17, 2012 03:06 PM PSTIt will simply change the situation, but the war between Muslim countries and their neighbors started 14 centuries ago, and the foolish Zionists decided to seek "safety" right in the middle of that battle ground.
Talk about getting out of Challeh and falling into Chaah!
The two-state solution is
by firstdayofmylife on Sat Nov 17, 2012 02:58 PM PSTThe two-state solution is the only way out of this mess.