norcal4iran.org
united4iran.org
During our travels to Iran in 2005, Penn and Erlich interviewed numerous ordinary Iranians. People were very friendly towards us as Americans but very hostile to U.S. policy against their country. We visited Friday prayers where 10,000 people chanted “Death to America.” Afterwards those same people invited us home for lunch.
That contradiction continues today as Iran goes through its most significant upheaval since the 1979 revolution. Iranians are rising up against an authoritarian system but don’t want U.S. intervention.
Many Iranians believe that they have experienced a coup d’état, in which the military and intelligence services have hijacked the presidential election. Through vote buying and manipulation of the count, Ahmadinejad had guaranteed himself another four years in office. In June over a million Iranians marched in the streets of major cities across the country. The spontaneous demonstrations included well-to-do supporters of opposition candidates, but also large numbers of workers, farmers, small business people and the devoutly religious. They were fed up with 30 years of a system that used Islam as an excuse for union labor strike breaking, lack of women’s rights and repression.
The Iranian government responded to these peaceful protests with savagery, killing dozens of people. Some human rights groups put the number at over 100. The government admits arresting 2500 people nationwide and continues to hold at least 500. Most are being held without charges or have simply disappeared.
The repression hasn’t killed the movement. On July 17, over 10,000 people came to Friday prayers in support of the opposition. Instead of chanting “Death to America,” they chanted “Death to the Dictator,” a reference to supreme leader Khamenei. Police attacked them with clubs and teargas.
Meanwhile in Washington, some politicians tried to use the crisis for their own ends. Senator John McCain criticized President Obama for not taking a stronger position against the Iranian government. It’s ironic to hear McCain and other conservatives proclaim their support for the people of Iran when a few months ago they wanted to bomb them.
That doesn’t exactly build credibility among Iranians.
President Obama faces tough choices on Iran. If he speaks out loudly against Ahmadinejad, he is accused of meddling in Iran’s internal affairs. If he says too little, then right-wingers in the U.S. accuse him of being soft on Ahmadinejad. In reality, the U.S. has very little ability to impact what has become a massive, spontaneous movement for change. And it shouldn’t. The CIA overthrew the democratically elected government of Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh in 1953, bringing the dictatorial Shah back to power. The Bush Administration attempted to overthrow the Iranian government by funding and arming ethnic minority groups opposed to Tehran.
The U.S. government has no moral or political authority to tell Iranians what they should do. Iranians are perfectly capable of deciding for themselves.
That’s why citizen diplomacy is so important. Iranian demonstrators welcome the support of ordinary Americans. Joan Baez recorded a Farsi language version of “We Shall Overcome” that has shot around the world on You Tube.
Iranian activists are holding a hunger strike in front of the UN in New York from July 22-4 demanding that Secretary General Ban Ki-moon send a special commission to Iran.
We urge you to participate in the July 25 demonstrations around the U.S. and in Europe. Stand in solidarity with Iranians and against U.S. intervention in Iran.
Sean Penn, Ross Mirkarimi and Reese Erlich
7/20/09
norcal4iran.org
united4iran.org
Sean Penn is an actor, director and writer who visited Iran in 2005. Ross Mirkarimi is a San Francisco supervisor, the first elected Iranian-American to hold that office. Reese Erlich is a freelance journalist and author of The Iran Agenda: The Real Story of US Policy and the Middle East Crisis.
بیانیه ی شان پن، راس میرکریمی و ریس ارلیک در مورد ایران- جون 20
در سفری که در سال 2005 به ایران داشتیم ما (شان پن و ریس ارلیک) با بسیاری از ایرانیان کوچه و بازار مصاحبه کردیم. مردم با ما بسیار مهربان بودند اما مخالفت شدیدی با سیاست های آمریکا بر علیه کشورشان داشتند. ما از مراسم نماز جمعه که در آن ده هزار نفر شعار "مرگ بر آمریکا" سر می دادند دیدار کردیم. بعد از نماز همان شعارگویان ما را برای نهار به خانه هایشان دعوت کردند.
این تضاد تا امروز که این کشور درگیر مهمترین تحول (و قیام) اجتماعی از زمان انقلاب 1979 است ادامه دارد. ایرانی ها بر علیه سیستمی استبدادی برخاسته اند اما حاضر به دخالت دولت آمریکا نیستند.
بسیاری از ایرانیان معتقدند که کودتائی به وقوع پیوسته که در آن سازمان های نظامی و امنیتی انتخابات ریاست جمهوری را دزدیده اند. با خریدن رای و تقلب در شمارش آراء، احمدی نژاد برای چهار سال دیگر مقام ریاست جمهوری را برای خود تضمین کرده است.
در ماه جون بیش از یک میلیون ایرانی در خیابان های شهرهای مهم کشوربه راهپیمائی پرداختند. این تظاهرات خودانگیخته شامل هواداران مرفه کاندیداهای مخالف بود، اما شمار بسیاری از این تظاهرکنندگان را نیز کارگران، کشاورزان، صاحبان مغازه و دستفروشان، و مسلمانان بسیار معتقد تشکیل می دادند. آنها از سیستمی که به بهانه ی دفاع از اسلام سی سال آزگار به شکستن اعتصاب کارگران اتحادیه ها، نفی حقوق زنان، و سرکوب دست زده بود خسته و بیزار شده بودند.
حکومت ایران به صورتی وحشیانه به این تظاهرات مسالمت آمیز حمله برد و ده ها نفر را کشت. برخی از گروه های مدافع حقوق بشر تعداد کشته شدگان را بیش از صد نفر اعلام کرده اند. حکومت تعداد بازداشت شدگان را 2500 نفر اعلام کرده است که 500 نفر از آنان هنوز در زندان ها به سر می برند. اکثر بازداشت شدگان بدون هیچ اتهامی زندانی شده اند و یا بدون هیج توضیحی ناپدید شده اند.
سرکوب اما جنبش را نابود نکرده است. در 17 جولای، بیش از 10 هزار نفر به طرفداری از اپوزیسیون در نماز جمعه شرکت کردند. به جای "مرگ بر آمریکا"، آنها فریاد "مرگ بر دیکتاتور" که اشاره به خامنه ای رهبر دارد سر دادند. نیروهای انتظامی با باتون و گازاشگ آور به آن ها حمله ور شدند.
همزمان در واشنگتن، برخی از سیاستمداران سعی کردند که از این بحران به سود خود استفاده کنند. سناتور جان مک کین به دلیل عدم موضعگیری قاطع تر در برابر حکومت ایران از پرزیدنت اوباما انتقاد کرد. جالب است که مک کین و دیگر سیاستمداران محافظه کار سنگ حمایت از مردم ایران به سینه می زنند در حالی که همین چند ماه پیش همین ها می خواستند ایران را بمباران کنند.
چنین رفتاری باعث اعتبار اینان در میان ایرانیان نخواهد شد.
پرزیدنت اوباما در برابر تصمیمات بسیار دشواری قرار دارد. او اگر با شدت بسیار بر علیه احمدی نژاد سخن گوید، متهم به دخالت در امور داخلی ایران می شود و اگر به اندازه ی کافی اعتراض نکند، دست راستی های آمریکائی او را متهم می کنند که در برابر احمدی نژاد کوتاه آمده است.
واقعیت این است که آمریکا توانائی اندکی دارد که بتواند بر جنبش خودبرانگیخته و عظیمی که برای تغییر به راه افتاده تاثیر گذار باشد. و نباید هم (تاثیرگذار) باشد. در سال 1953 سازمان سیا دولت محمد مصدق را که به صورتی دمکراتیک به روی کار آمده بود سرنگون ساخت و شاه دیکتاتور را به قدرت بازگرداند. دولت بوش تلاش کرد که با در اختیار گذاشتن بودجه و مسلح کردن گروه های مخالف دولت تهران در میان اقلیت های قومی، این دولت را سرنگون سازد.
دولت آمریکا چه از نظر اخلاقی (انسانی) و چه از نظر سیاسی هیچ حقی ندارد که به ایرانیان بگوید چه باید بکنند. ایرانی ها خود کاملاً قابلیت تصمیم گیری برای خود را دارند.
از این روست که دیپلماسی شهروندان اهمیت بسیاری پیدا می کند. تظاهرکنندگان ایرانی از حمایت آمریکائی های عادی استقبال می کنند. جون بائز آهنگ “We Shall Overcome”را با متنی فارسی خوانده است و ویدئوی آن از طریق یوتیوپ در سراسر دنیا پخش شده است.
فعالین ایرانی از روز22 تا 24 جولای در برابر مقر سازمان ملل متحد دست به اعتصاب غذا زده و از بن کی مون، دبیرکل این سازمان می خواهند که کمیسیون ویژه ای را به ایران بفرستد.
ما از همه ی شما می خواهیم که در تظاهرات 25 جولای در شهرهای آمریکا و اروپا شرکت کنید و همبستگی خود را با مردم ایران و مخالفت خود با دخالت آمریکا را اعلام کنید.
norcal4iran.org
united4iran.org
شان پن بازیگر، کارگردان و نویسنده است و در سال 2005 به ایران مسافرت کرد. راس میرکریمی نخستین عضو ایرانی- آمریکائیِ شورای شهر سانفرانسیسکو است. ریس ارلیک خبرنگاری مستقل است که چندین بار به ایران مسافرت کرده است. او نویسنده ی کتاب زیر می باشد:
The Iran Agenda: The Real Story of US Policy and the Middle East Crisis
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interesting
by che khabar e on Thu Jul 23, 2009 01:00 PM PDTthat statement seems to me to be the definition of a zealot, rather than a christian. Again, a subject of endless debate and merely my opinion. I'm not sure I trust someone who is so completely defined by anything, whether religion or anything else. I tend to leave some wiggle room in my religious beliefs. LOL. My feeling is that someone who is so absolute is not open to compromise or compassion. And I firmly believe that applies to all religions, Christian, Muslim or Jew.
So are you saying that
by ex programmer craig on Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:40 PM PDTSo are you saying that liberals are NOT religious? :-)
Well, it's an unfair question because I don't like the word "liberal" as applied to politics! It's not a political term! And also, I don't like the word "religious" because I'm a Christian but I have problems with organized Christianity and don't really consider myself to be a religious person! So this whole discussion is a losing game for me. But I'm trying here!
I'm asking because I am liberal and religious and it seemed slightly
insulting to suggest that conservatives are the only ones who are
religious.
That's not really what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting that devoutly religious people are inherently conservative. It's in their nature. It's their beliefs that make them conservative, not their politics.
I might suggest that the conservative brand of religion is
NOT to my liking. It's usually holier-than-thou and of the "born
again" type.
You are speaking of Christianity only? Why? My theory is that this applies to all devoutly religious people.
What I find "unattractive" about the conservative stance
on religion is that their platform is built on family values, yet look
around you in the republican party right now. NOT to say that dems
don't have their share of cheaters. Can you say "cigar"? But
honestly. It's one thing to cheat, but to espouse all these moral
virtues WHILE cheating.
I don't disagree with you on that.
So, to me religious is NOT the same thing as godly. And I'd rather be godly any day of the week.
We are on the same page, after all :)
I'm not sure I agree with the comment that "devotely religious"
people are conservatives. But of course that would lead to a whole new
discusson of "devotely". I hardly consider born agains "devotely
religious".
I consider somebody to be devout if their relious beliefs form the center of their identity. Somebody who is Muslim first and everything else second is a devout Muslim. Same with Christians.
Baptists? Extremely conservative. Catholics? Excepting their
stance on some issues like contraception, they are pretty liberal! I
rather think it's all relative. :-)
I gotta disagree with you about that! I've never met a practicing Catholic that I would call anything but conservative! At least on social issues! Don't let teh fact they vote democrat fool you! ;)
ah ha
by che khabar e on Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:09 PM PDTSo are you saying that liberals are NOT religious? :-)
I'm asking because I am liberal and religious and it seemed slightly insulting to suggest that conservatives are the only ones who are religious. I might suggest that the conservative brand of religion is NOT to my liking. It's usually holier-than-thou and of the "born again" type. What I find "unattractive" about the conservative stance on religion is that their platform is built on family values, yet look around you in the republican party right now. NOT to say that dems don't have their share of cheaters. Can you say "cigar"? But honestly. It's one thing to cheat, but to espouse all these moral virtues WHILE cheating. Well, it's ugly to me and just makes conservative just that much more hypocritical. To me.
So, to me religious is NOT the same thing as godly. And I'd rather be godly any day of the week.
I'm not sure I agree with the comment that "devotely religious" people are conservatives. But of course that would lead to a whole new discusson of "devotely". I hardly consider born agains "devotely religious".
Baptists? Extremely conservative. Catholics? Excepting their stance on some issues like contraception, they are pretty liberal! I rather think it's all relative. :-)
che khabar e
by ex programmer craig on Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:06 AM PDTOf course Penn is dissing the conservatives! He's one of the most
liberal figures around. How you equal that to dissing the american
public is confusing to me though. I diss
conservatives every chance I get!
Well, I'll let this gallup poll do my speaking for me on this one:
//www.gallup.com/poll/120857/conservatives-si...
"PRINCETON, NJ -- Thus far in 2009, 40% of Americans interviewed in
national Gallup Poll surveys describe their political views as
conservative, 35% as moderate, and 21% as liberal."
Just saying, it doesn't seem like a smart move to throw the bulk of the American public over the side, while seeking American public support.
But what I'm really wondering is
about your comment about conservative and christians and
abologionists. Forgive me if I am reading something wrong but your
comment seems to imply that conservatives are christians but liberals
are not. Am I wrong?
No, you aren't wrong. Devoutly religious people are pretty conservative. Doesn't even matter what religion we are talking about. I assume you aren't religious yourself, or you would likely know that already :)
And just so you know, I don't consider myself conservative. I'm a libertarian which makes me very liberal on social issues and very conservative on some other issues. Balances out to "centrist".
what a shame
by che khabar e on Thu Jul 23, 2009 09:25 AM PDTThat ANY support for our hamvatans is being nitpicked. I kinda don't blame the americans. They either don't do enough or they do too much. What are we doing that many of them aren't doing? Waving a few flags and showing up on street corners? I wonder how many of you have rushed back to Iran to be a part of the movement. to actually do something other than criticize foreigners who are trying to bring some major attention to Iran.
To Ex: Of course Penn is dissing the conservatives! He's one of the most liberal figures around. How you equal that to dissing the american public is confusing to me though. I diss conservatives every chance I get! But what I'm really wondering is about your comment about conservative and christians and abologionists. Forgive me if I am reading something wrong but your comment seems to imply that conservatives are christians but liberals are not. Am I wrong?
Fatwas!
by Anonymouse on Thu Jul 23, 2009 04:55 AM PDTSince some are issuing "fatwas" on Sean Penn, as far as I know he is the only Hollywood star who has said something about Iranians' struggle for justice. Let's not forget it. If you know of any other hollywood star let's hear it, I'll be glad to know more.
Not even our full/part-Iranian Hollywood stars, except Maz Jobrani. Of course Maz is always on people's side and made his living this way. He is 'da man!
Everything is sacred.
Sean Penn is a total idiot,
by Sassan on Thu Jul 23, 2009 02:51 AM PDTnot to mention a liberal freak and wholly disingeneous (when he says that McCain wanted to "bomb the Iranian people."
McCain JOKINGLY (a bad joke, by the way) talked about bombing Iran's nuclear facilites, NOT its people! Surely some people guarding the facilities would get killed, but those casaulties would be limited almost entirely to regime thugs and lackeys guarding the facilities (and the more of them dead, the better for the PEOPLE of Iran).
And to say that Obama is doing a fantastic job vis-a-vis the Iranian election turmoil is ABSOLUTELY INSANE! It took that radical baffoon 10 freaking days to "condemn" the violence in Iran (his initial reaction was released in a freaking statement which is patently pathetic for the Leader of the Free World -- and he never mentioned the word "FREEDOM" -- not once!!!
His whimpy words have always been centered around "justice" and "fair elections," which was merely a cover all along for the Iranian people in their struggle toward FREEDOM from the tyranny of the mullahs! And here comes the insult to injury -- while it took the radical baffoon 10 days to condemn the violent crackdown in Iran, it took him ONLY 3 HOURS to condemn the Honduran coup, which put him in perfect alliance with his other lefty buddy, Hugo Chavez.
Obama's foreign policy is a phenomenol FAILURE and these twits like Sean Penn who support him blindly are CLUELESS! Mr. Penn, please stick to something you're good at -- damn good at, in fact -- which is acting! When it comes to politics, specially middle-eastern politics, you don't know shit!
.
by timothyfloyd on Wed May 12, 2010 12:24 PM PDT.
I agree
by ex programmer craig on Wed Jul 22, 2009 05:21 PM PDTChill out. See? Sean Penn has us arguing over who REALLY supports Iranians. Why couldn't he announce his solidarity without slamming half of the population of the United States?
MARG BAR SEAN PENN!
(Sorry, Anonymouse)
I'm just going to hope somebody councils him on the appropriate way to show solidarity before he makes any public speeches.
.
by timothyfloyd on Wed May 12, 2010 12:24 PM PDT.
chill out...:-)
by che khabar e on Wed Jul 22, 2009 04:22 PM PDTyour anti-democrat is showing my friend. I think you're mistaken about Sean Penn. He has always been politically active. Why can't he do both. An actor can only be an actor? He can't be a father or a brother? He can't be a religious figure? Or support the local PTA? Come on. You're being a little silly! Why can't an actor be politically active? Who better to try and improve situations INSIDE Hollywood than someone who gives a shit? Regardless of what party you are, Mccain said a stupid STUPID thing and it's coming back to bit him in the ass. As well it should. And he's a politician! It IS his job dude! I personally think McCain is a dirtbag. And more for personal reasons than his political opinions. But that's me. My right to an opinion. You can have yours.
sepas
whoa
by che khabar e on Wed Jul 22, 2009 04:15 PM PDTback the judgement truck up girlfriend! there are ALOT of us who approve of what Obama is doing. He HAS openly denounced what AN is doing. And read around here a little bit, OK? The majority of the people on iranian.com do NOT want any more intervention from Obama than he is already giving. As far as what our brave hamvatans IN Iran want, they can tell Obama themselves. IMHO they don't want anything more than awareness and support. And they are getting it. Who is these "average protesteor" that are disappointed? The places I've been (and I've been to several already) feel VERY confident and appreciative of the US support. Please be careful what you say. You're misrepresenting the feelings of many Iranians when you act like you're speaking for all. :-)
sepas!
Hillary is in the same
by ex programmer craig on Wed Jul 22, 2009 03:07 PM PDTHillary is in the same camp but not Biden. Biden although I liked him
very much in his positions during the campaign I think he is loosing it
and gaffing more than anybody should.
Doing a google search on "Biden" and "Iran" yields too many results for me to be able to sift through, but I've had my eye on Biden since 1989 and I recall him taking a pretty hard line against the IRI in the past. That said, Biden is bit hard to p[in down on what he really stands for. That's why I've had my eye on him for so long. He talks one way, but then his name appears as the sponsor of bills that are the exact opposite of the position he previously articulated. Now that he's VP and not a Senator, he can say what he really means without worrying about his popularity back home. But he still seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth, on Iran.
Yes there are Democrats who may want to bomb Iran too but they
number fall less than Republicans. Obama himself voted to block Hormuz
strait which went unnoticed during campaign.
Yes, but they control both the Executive and the Legislative branches of government now. That changes things a bit, now that they don't have the luxury of sitting back and blaming everything that happens on Republicans. They will be held responsible for what they do - and don't - do. If they do nothing in regards to the IRI - which seems to be Obama's game plan - then they are royally screwed if that doesn't work out well. Likewise, if they do take strong action and it backfires badly, they are royally screwed that way too. Personally, I don't think the American publicsupports any military action against Iran right now, but that won't stop the public from blaming democrats if something bad happens. It's quite a box they are in, and it's the exact same box Republicans were in afew years ago. The difference is that the public already blamed Republicans for Iraq, so Republicans didn't have much to lose.
As for alternative and whether or not eventually striking Iran, I
can say with certainty (for myself anyway) that striking Iran
surgically or wholesale is going to be a disaster. And in this time
when US is finally starting to pull out of Iraq? are you kidding me?
I don't support air strikes on Iran, and I never have. Main reason is that I don't think they are effective. Whether they can sucessfully destroy or even just delay the nuclear program or not, it seems like in the long run they would be counter-productive. But I've never bought the argument that the US is held hostage in Iraq. Especially now. As of June 30th, US troops are only in Iraq as a "just in case" contingency. They aren't patrolling. They aren't policing. They are just sitting on their hands. We could withdraw them right now, if necessary. And I kinda think we should. Especially if Obama is serious about trying to win in Afghanistan. The Iraqis have shown they can stand on their own at this point in time. And if Iran chooses to change that by interfering in Iraq's internal affairs, I think Iran is going to have a hell of a lot more to worry about than US air strikes. Especially when there are no US troops there trying to keep a lid on things. I honestly don't think that would be in Iran's best interests.
gotta go
Me too :)
Hillary is in the
by Anonymouse on Wed Jul 22, 2009 02:10 PM PDTHillary is in the same camp but not Biden. Biden although I liked him very much in his positions during the campaign I think he is loosing it and gaffing more than anybody should.
Yes there are Democrats who may want to bomb Iran too but they number fall less than Republicans. Obama himself voted to block Hormuz strait which went unnoticed during campaign.
As for alternative and whether or not eventually striking Iran, I can say with certainty (for myself anyway) that striking Iran surgically or wholesale is going to be a disaster. And in this time when US is finally starting to pull out of Iraq? are you kidding me? gotta go
Everything is sacred.
Missed one part...
by ex programmer craig on Wed Jul 22, 2009 02:03 PM PDTAs far as Sean Penn criticizing those who are supporting Iranians when
only a few months ago, some even as we speak, want(ed) to bomb Iran I
think he has an arguement.
It's only conservatives who supported (and may still support) military action against Iran? Pretty sure you can find the names "Joe Biden" and "Hillary Clinton" on that list too, though they aren't guilty of the heinous crime of rewording a popular beach boys song and being bad singers.
It puts the ball in conservatives court to
say what are you going to do if these protests flounder? Is it going
to be back to bomb bomb Iran again?
There are worse things that could happen than strategic bombing of nuclear facilities and/or regime targets like the Iranian Navy and land-based weapons installations. That said, it is a good question. I would like to see Obama and the leaders of the House and the Senate answer it, as well. What DO they plan, if the status quo remains unchanged and talks continue to go nowhere? Just today hillary offerred to put the entire middle-east (absent Iran) under the US nuclear umbrella. That seems pretty reckless (and hollow) to me. Is that the best the Obama Administration can come up with?
Well you can do
by Anonymouse on Wed Jul 22, 2009 02:01 PM PDTWell you can do whatever you want but if you think quoting people is going to stop them from not putting words in your mouth, I'd hold my breath. People who do such a thing do it regardless of what you do and that'd only make you that much more angry.
I guess people's definition of conservatism or liberalism differ. Some would argue in those days the slave owners were the conservatives and being of the "democractic" party doesn't necessarily mean liberal. At the time democrats were conservatives. Whoever they were they did the right thing.
As for art beyond 70s well art evolves. It is funny that you think left spew hate while it is mostly right that looks for boggie men. Bill O'reilly for example always blames left for "hatefull" stuff. I agree with your far-left and far-right to some extent although I don't think far-left has that much destuctive power than far-right has and has shown. They all make mistakes. Jane Fonda could not be sorrier for what she did and she paid her whole life for it and can't shake it.
As for your years in Marines I didn't mean you should be embarrased I just meant people are going to assume you are older than you are. The picture itself is pretty good.
Everything is sacred.
Sorry
by ex programmer craig on Wed Jul 22, 2009 01:49 PM PDTI have to quote! I hate it when somebody takes my comments out of context when replying to me, so I go out of my way not to do that to anyone else. If I'm ever putting words in soembody's mouth, it will be obvious that my reply doesn't match the quoted text :)
As for American examples I can't think of a name now but generally
artists (all disciplines) who played a role in causes such as Women's
sufferage, equal voting rights, civil cights and so on.
There were a lot of conservative artists involved in all those movements. Not only that, there were a lot of Christians involved in all those movements. And the original abolitionists (movement to abolish slavery in America) was almost exclusively Christian. Art did not become the "exclusive" domain of the atheist and militant left until the counter-culture movement of the 1960s and early 1970s. I'm sorry, but I just don't LIKE those people, whether they are artists or not. They are selfish, they are mean-spirited and they are preachers of hate. Their isn't a spit's worth of difference between the far-left and the far-right when it comes to the quality of their character. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.
About Bataan (Phillipines?) ok but unless you explain people are going to assume "Nam" :-) Or some (perhaps rednecks of allsame s**t! I wouldn't say it but I've heard and witnessed on many occasions the same as far as say comparing Iran and Iraq and so forth. nationalities :-) would say;
I don't really care what people assume. I'm not embarrassed about my years in the Marines. Anybody who thinks I should be is somebody unworthy of my respect, anyway. The reason I picked that picture is my own mother couldn't recoignize me from it :)
PS-As far as Sean Penn, as I said earlier I am happy he seems to be on the right side of this one. I won't attack him any further, even if he says something stupid that deserves to be attacked. Happy now? :p
Craig may I suggest
by Anonymouse on Wed Jul 22, 2009 01:24 PM PDTCraig may I suggest not quoting the comments so much? It makes your comment seem long and perhaps turn people away. It is good to quote but not in every comment. Just a suggestion.
As far as Sean Penn criticizing those who are supporting Iranians when only a few months ago, some even as we speak, want(ed) to bomb Iran I think he has an arguement. It puts the ball in conservatives court to say what are you going to do if these protests flounder? Is it going to be back to bomb bomb Iran again?
When I said artists I didn't mean Hollywood artists. I meant artists of all disciplines, like poets, writers, painters and so on. As for American examples I can't think of a name now but generally artists (all disciplines) who played a role in causes such as Women's sufferage, equal voting rights, civil cights and so on. Add to them the hollywood stars who stood up to Senator McArthur's witch hunting.
About Bataan (Phillipines?) ok but unless you explain people are going to assume "Nam" :-) Or some (perhaps rednecks of all nationalities :-) would say; same s**t! I wouldn't say it but I've heard and witnessed on many occasions the same as far as say comparing Iran and Iraq and so forth.
Everything is sacred.
Anonymouse
by ex programmer craig on Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:35 PM PDTCraig I assume you mean Sean Penn criticizing McCain on bomb bomb Iran
and then changing his tune to support Iranians is not good.
Nope, I'm criticizing this:
It’s ironic to hear McCain and other conservatives proclaim their
support for the people of Iran when a few months ago they wanted to
bomb them.
He is condemning *all* conservative support for Iranians. He's just using McCain as an example. And the word "some" that he is nice enough to throw in there doesn't fool anyone. Seems counterproductive to me, if he genuinely supports the Iranian people. I think he is more interested in attacking American conservatives than he is in Iran. That's my personal opinion, and that's always been my personal opinion of the Hollywood left, going back to Jane Fonda during the hippy era.
Now conservatives don't have many artists among them.
I think if you look into it, you'll find that Hollywood was a very conservative place up until about 1970.
If there were no artists who worked on just causes there
would never be justice.
Can you give me some examples of Hollywood Artists getting involved, and achieving a just outcome?
PS is that a picture of you in "Nam"?! If so, what year did you leave there?
No, that's a picture of me in Bataan in 1984. I was a little kid during the Vietnam War :)
Thank you
by mina modares on Wed Jul 22, 2009 08:47 AM PDTThanks for all the great comments, Americans & Iranians alike. I think this is the whole purpose of the July rallies, a show of support and unity by EVERYONE: artists, politicians, all nationalities and from all walks of life...everyone & anyone who has ever disagreed with each other, can now unite and show support & agreement on this one cause: Democracy & Freedom for Iran.
Iranians want their voices and struggle heard
by Anonymouse on Wed Jul 22, 2009 08:51 AM PDTCraig I assume you mean Sean Penn criticizing McCain on bomb bomb Iran and then changing his tune to support Iranians is not good.
I recently came back from a visit to Iran and while I can't tell you an exact figure I think that when it comes to US politicians position in Iran support for Bush (McCain and Hillary) and Obama are split. At least that is how I felt.
I felt the more "upedy' the middle class, the more support for Bush, as if he could do something he could not do in Iraq.
Anyway, as far as artist and support for just causes, of course they get involved. In Iran so many artists went to jail because of their work. Same in Russia and Gulags. You can tell me about American artists and being an actor is also an artist.
Now conservatives don't have many artists among them. It is kind of contradiction since they usually care about themselves and god forbid something good may happen to people. Conservative artists that come to my mind are Chuck Norris and Ted Nuggent. You can add more but they can't even get a campaign song going without getting sued for using it!
Lastly, remember Iraq war I when Muhammad Ali went to Iraq and negotiated the release of the hostages, or at least most of them? What he did was illegal (negotiating with foreign Govts) and there was talk of prosecuting him. You can guess who were going after him. Now he was not a politician but who is going to prosecute Muhammad Ali?!
It is a politician's job to lie and an artist's job to expose him/her. If there were no artists who worked on just causes there would never be justice. They are needed and not all care, especially if you're hollywood rich. Their contributions to charity is just for tax purposes.
PS is that a picture of you in "Nam"?! If so, what year did you leave there?
Everything is sacred.
It's Very Hateful and Vicious Not to let McCain Change his mind
by timothyfloyd on Wed Jul 22, 2009 02:44 AM PDTI appreciate the People of Iran and McCain's Boldness to stand up to a Regime which makes it's people chant 'Death to America'. In fact,what do you expect?I'm American,I actually care about that,I just don't know why that is abnormal to another American...To one that is not,I understand.. Even if it was a joke,Do I really have to explain the Beach Boy's song Barbara Ann?
Did not the protest's change anything for you? Or did they just change things for Sean Penn and Democrats,not McCain and conservatives?.. I think this proves Sean Penn and company could care less about the message of freedom sent to the world,because of course-only Democrats could get the message...
Or their message from Sean Penn and Co is-McCain and conservatives just want to Bomb Iran for no reason..You are some Real Nice guys..It's really true,Democrats are the Party of hate..
Yes it's very hateful,personally vicious beyond politic's to not even let McCain change his mind about Iran after the protests.Actually I'm worse,I just don't believe things easily..I'm just starting to change it myself,and only because they are still protesting last week.Wow...One protester's words ring in my mind 'We want Freedom,not War'...that just recently changed my mind...
But I really have my doubt Sean Penn really care's about Iranians,only American Politics.His trip to Iran was political motivation,not the Fabricated threat of War on Iran like this piece says.It wasn't even on the board..It was done to spite Bush as he did earlier in Iraq.
I supported Obama,only because I know he is above this type of politics.I think this guy makes him and Democrats look like crap.And McCain has a heart of gold.As does Obama.
Exploiting the protest's with American politics is sickening,political manipulation driving hate into peoples minds.I wonder what politics is worse,Ahmadinejad's or Sean Pennis?
And for the Obama Administration well I wouldn't doubt Iranian's are in for more or a Change than American's.I'm still waiting for it,including a change in the sterotypical politics.Of course,it's a tremendous job..I think it's time to fire his economic staff..
Should American's get involved? I don't know.Who is to say? what gives Sean Penn and Company the right? Under some circumstances,like Genocide,of course America should get involved.We don't want those circumstances to happen and doubtful it will.Still,only a fool would eliminate the option.
Western support
by Ramona on Tue Jul 21, 2009 07:06 PM PDTIf the Iranians did not want Western support, they would not be holding up their slogans in English. Anyone who says that if Obama openly supported the demonstrators, it would be deemed as intrusive into Iran's affairs is truly naive or ignorant. It is not what the mullah's regime say that matters (they would say what they have regardless of US official policy). It is the rising tide of freedom fighting people's opinion that is important. And the average protestor is disappointed by Obama who held the beacon of freedom and democracy for many in the world. Personally, I too, am very disappointed in his "cautious" approach. What does that mean? Cautious because he wants to negotiate with blood suckers? Or cautious because he is afraid of Ahmadinejad's intimidation tactics? Who is being sacrificed here?
Fouzal Bashi
by ex programmer craig on Tue Jul 21, 2009 03:12 PM PDTSupportive artists can't and won't be sending bombers to Iran! Their show of support is appreciated by the Iranians everywhere.
So, you DON'T want the people who can send bombers (or not send bombers) on your side?
OK, I'm beating a dead horse here. I'm happy that for once in his life Sean Penn is on the right side of an issue. Even if that only happened by sheer luck.
Anonymouse, fair enough.
by ex programmer craig on Tue Jul 21, 2009 03:08 PM PDTAnonymouse, fair enough. But Sean Penn went out of his way to criticize McCain for doing exactly what he is doing. As I see it, there are (at least) two big differences between Sean Penn and John McCain.
The first, is that it is actually John McCain's job to make political statements. It is Sean Penn's job to be an actor.
The second is that John McCain has a lot more support for his political positions in the US than Sean Penn does. Which means, when John McCain says something, more people listen. Which means (in the US at least) - his support is more important. In fact, Sean Penn's political ideology may be so unpopular in the US that his support is counter-productive - in the US. But, that may not be true in Iran, and I suppose that is what really matters.
My main complaint with this statement is that even here, while he is showing solidarity with Iranians, he is going out of his way to alienate a substantial portion of the American public. Since I'm American and not Iranian, that's a problem for me.
Abarmard,
(there is a difference) Between artists, activists, and concern citizens verses political figures or military personnels.
Yes. Of all those, only political figures are empowered by law to get involved in political matters in foreign countries. In the US, active duty military personnel are forbidden by law to get themselves involved in political issues.
self-censorship
by Marjan Zahed Kindersley on Wed Jul 22, 2009 02:08 AM PDTI don't know where I was , but my post was way off, so I've deleted it
There is a difference
by Abarmard on Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:19 PM PDTBetween artists, activists, and concern citizens verses political figures or military personnels.
support darim ta support
by Fouzul Bashi on Tue Jul 21, 2009 01:12 PM PDTIt's great to hear about all the support that the Iranian movement is given from Ostad Shajarian, Shahram Nazeri, Ismael Khoie, Simin Behbahani, all Iranian artists in Iran and the west, U2, Robert Redford, Desmond Tutu and other Nobel Peace Laureates, Iranian Poets etc... and now Sean Penn (no surprise there of course). This is great!
The difference between artists and celebrities showing support for the Iranian people vs the meddling of foreign countries:
Supportive artists can't and won't be sending bombers to Iran! Their show of support is appreciated by the Iranians everywhere.
Thanks for posting.
Sean Penn belongs.
by Anonymouse on Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:19 PM PDTSean Penn belongs. Come to think of it if anyone in Hollywood belongs it is him. 4 years ago he went to Iran to cover Iran's 2005 elections. At the time there was a good possibility of US armed confrontation with Iran. He posted a 5 part series with photos and videos which you can see here:
//www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/08/22/DDGJUEAF041.DTL
Part 3 is when he met Rafsanjani :-) There is a video somewhere in the photos and videos section about Rafsanjani. That is the best part where he took a video of someone physically pushing him toward's Rafsanjani that he almost hugged him! He wrote this about it:
"It became clear we would not have more than two or three minutes between the three of us to ask questions, so I passed the torch to Norman and Reese. And as I stood by with my recorder to tape their short questions and his even shorter answers, it was then that my video camera recorded my friend, the bearded Sith, literally pushing me into the photo op that somebody thought would excite the kids in Rafsanjani's campaign. It was dumb show of proximity without substance, and my video camera dutifully recorded the shove."
I love that video clip! I remember reading his reports as he posted them at the time and his story is really good. If you have the patience and time I recommend reading his entire report.
There is even a small part about a fight he had with his wife (Robin Wright Penn) over the phone when there was news of a bombing in Tehran.
Everything is sacred.
Hmmmm...
by ex programmer craig on Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:34 AM PDTMeanwhile in Washington, some politicians tried to use the crisis for their own ends.
Looks like the same thing may be happening in Hollywood!
Iranians are rising up against an authoritarian system but don’t want U.S. intervention.
But they will be happy for an inetrvetion by American celebrities?
My apologies to any Iranians who feel this may be helpful... and it may actually BE helpful for all I know... but Hollywood celebrities sticking their noses where they don't belong is a pet peeve of mine, and Sean Penn is one of the worst offenders.