No Fear

No Fear

I am not the one advocating violent revolution.  I am saying that this government (all factions that currently hold power) has clearly, violently, and unequivocally closed the door on all evolutionary approaches.  By doing so it has created the conditions for a violent revolution, which is inevitable unless they change course.

Of course I prefer an evolutionary, orderly, peaceful approach.  But that implies there is a set of laws within which you can be active.  In Iran today, the law is whatever some pedophile rapist mullah dictates, and the thugs follow.  They have full license to rape, kill, torture, imprison, stone, cut off hands, confiscate whenever they want however they want as much as they want.

Don't blame me, I am just the messenger.  If you have evidence to disprove me, bring it.  But the news and the situation is clear to all those who are watching.

No Fear,

'consider it not so deeply'.

I profit from these discussions also. However, as I said, I am determined to soft pedal my participation here substantially, at least until I get more perspective so that I am able to establish clear boundaries, not get too sucked in and drained. I don't really know how long that will take or what my feelings toward and relationship to the site will be once it happens. For now, soft pedal, even back pedal as necessary is what is best for me.

As I said before, it really has nothing to do with you or this thread per se. If you want to continue discussing something with me feel free to contact me through my account.

Take care,

Robin

ps I do agree with Fair that it was a very worthwhile discussion. Even just having people with polar opposite views be able to be civil--which btw can also lead at very least to a real exchange of information as it did here--is very important. Hope this type of thing will continue here. It was a great beginning.

Rosie,

I value my debates with you and we still have a very interesting debate going on in regards to " rights" and " majority" which needs more inputs from a wider spectrum.

Fair,

A non revolutionary approach will remove the burden of reaction from the current administration. A government must restore order especially when civil disobediences of a non tolerant type is at full display along with setting the cars and businesses on fire.

Once you advocate non tolerance approaches, you will receive non tolerant responses. If you have not broken any law ( criminally ) then you can't be charged and sent to prison ( Ideally ). This is the basic of activism within the frame of law.

I can't seem to find a new angle in my debate with you since you continue to call the entire IR system a unified body of evil dictators which need to be violently toppled.  You have your mind set on this definition and you stubornly emphasize on its validity.

I don't share that view and my activism is founded on more pragmatic and flexible definition. Current political developement seems to support my views which suggests that IR is following the evolution route and is not headed towards revolution ( Or knows how to avoid it ). Either way, the result is the same.

The evolution route is managable, predictable, planable and unifiable, while the revolution route is shrouded in uncertainty.

In my opinion, there are many issues wrong with the revolutionary approach, as a method and as a goal.

Escape,

Ofcourse i am a republican, how could i not be when an overwhelming numbers of my countrymen voted for it along with the Islamic part. Calling this majority " defrauded" ,  " fooled " or whatever carries a certain arrogance which i don't hold against any Iranian. We are a part of a larger majority who also chose to follow the likes of Dr. Shariati who successfully combined leftist marxist ideolody with Shi'ism. Prior to Dr. Shariati, the religious clergies of Shi'ism in Iran did not have a solution on how to deal with an imperialistic western puppet ruling over their country. Shariati found the formula and there you have it, political leftwing Islam is born.

If you feel so strongly against the revolutionary version of Islam please take a number first. Many have paid a heavy price for confronting this political Islam and ironically, the real marxist leftwings were the first to get a taste of their own medicine of " non tolerances " from the new class of highly charged clerigy revolutionaries.

You must be blind if you don't see the same script at play during the last election. The methods are the same, the leaders are the same, the slogans are the same and they expected to have the same result as well. But this time, not quite the same. Thankfully.

You think by attacking Islam in its entirety , you can weaken the IR and bring democracy to Iran since IR is built upon Islam. All you are doing is to defend your opinion on how to " make changes ".  But your opinion is only one vote like so many others who represent one or a small minority.  Try quiting the idea that a small intelligent gifted minority is capable of running the country and making positive changes. In reality, its the majority who will make the future of Iran.

Why not support a majority which is fed up with the old school corrupt incompetent clergies who are running this country for 30 years now? Whats wrong with that?

No Fear 'The Religious Islamic Republic of Iran'

  No Fear

I am asking you about the Change in Iran for human right's and advocacy of people freedoms you are waiting for,gradually working with the Govt.Our difference is,You believe in the 'Republic' of the 'Islamic Republic of Iran'.I don't.I believe the title 'Islamic Republic' is a Lie.There is no such thing as a Islamic Republic.Because Islamic Law is not a compromising subject or allows the people to make their own law's.God makes the Law's.The people don't have a say.

In the sense that someone represent's the people of Iran is true but they are subject within a counsel's perception of God's law's which are not subject to change.The people hold no power in what they think should be law except these few reading and trying to interpret an ancient book..This is the problem with any Religious state.It cannot be a True Republic. You won't change 'God's laws' with your advocacy until you change that counsel.

As a False Republic it can do as you wish and wait for the change of the perception of God's law but that is very hard to do when they have a Book they must follow strictly.Either the Book is wrong or they are wrong and allowing the Corruption of Fortitude with this brutal treatment of it's people set by a strict guideline.It's obvious these people are evil,these Islamic leaders go out and give their eulogy's and sermons and cement their koranic vision's some which are just all out Evil.

What is this 'Stoning'? What is this 'Chop someone's hand off for being a theif'? Hanging people in the street for intimidation? Just what is this barbaric Islamic Law you try to promote as 'Republic'? It is all out Evil..What would give a people the Idea that this 'Iran' is what God want's for mankind to treat mankind like? To Kill the Infidel if he can't pay his pentance to your belief? Do Not Kill is the first commandment.This is an abomination to God.But it doesn't have to be a commandment,it's just common sense.

When you go out and Kill people (In Mass) for protesting their Government,for people who believe in a real 'Republic' and their say in Representation,that is an abomination to the people and the idea that it is a Republic.It's an abomination towards Islam and all other Religion's.The whole idea of Iran is an abomination.When you raise a Nation on the idea it is formed to combat in God's Name,that's an abomination.

I don't just question the Islamic Republic of Iran,I question Islam.I think it can be good but it has to be good 100% of the time.There is no room for allowing Evil Deeds in the Name of Good.

And it's happening all over with Islam today especially Sharia law,the Taliban,Al Qeada,Hamas,Hezbollah.Iran is headed down that road,Sharia Wahabi type of domiance.This Religious Terrorist type of mentality,you can't live in denial of it before it wakes you up.

You can work with it,but will the people in Iran and the country's in the world?What is going on behind the scenes there in Iran? It seems sanction's are working and yet they are not working.We will  see if the Govt start's to take it out on the people,But I don't trust either the Western media to admit so because the Democrats would not allow their sanction's to be shown as hurting the Iranian people and I also don't trust the Iranian media to admit that sanction's are hurting the people.The people have no free press with today's 'Interpretation' in Iran.

I wish Iran would change path's drasticly but you can let Iran do whatever it want's including the way it treats it own people and fuels the fire in the Levent.Which I'm sure will continue on,nothing will change until you get those Koran interpreter's on the straight and narrow.

The topic here

is "Revolution is not a solution".  Many good points were brought out, and I am glad we could have a discussion despite so many differences.  Evolution or revolution or whatever else, this is very important.

However, there were certain accusation made against greens as well as myself which I challenged, and are yet to be answered:

1-The accusation that I ever suggested that leadership of change should come from Iranians abroad

2-The accusation that green movement fizzled out, and that 22 Bahman was an "anticlimax" and proof that this movement has withered.  While completely ignoring the most extensive, massive security presence, crackdown, and preparation in our country's history.

Anyone who thinks these points are off topic should ask "how is a non-revolutionary approach to be followed under such fascistic dictatorial and oppressive conditions?"  I look at South Africa, India under the British, the US deep south during the civil rights movement, Chile under Pinochet, Phillipines under Marcos, and South Korea under its dictators, and while all of those were brutal, we can all agree that none of them were as brutal as the Islamic rapist republic headed by pedophile rapist mullahs and criminals.

I have yet to hear any answer (let alone a convincing one) to this pivotal question, as well as the unproven accusations, which is why I agree with No Fear that this thread is dead, and I agree with Rosie that it is not helpful to put much more into this discussion than getting out of it.

/'Nilofar had correctly answered that and you also acknowledged

 Nilofar had correctly answered that and you also acknowledged it, thats why i left it alone.'

Yes, she  did, and I told her that I already pretty well knew that but I wanted you to be the one to explain it so that I could comment on it. That was the only right way to do things, not to make absolute judgements based on what I or someone else thinks someone means before commenting on it when they seem to have made a mistake in their own terminology. And also once again, you are not reading what I say, only what you want to think I say, which is endemic to this site not just regarding me.

I know you mean well, but the fact  is I always wind up putting far more into this place than I get back and I've been trying to stop doing that because it's bad for me. I made an exception in the case of this thread. I also know that your having gotten sick was a fluke which changed the way this thread went. But anyway it happened and it was  a good thing for me because iit's helped to make me firmer in my resolve. 

So .I don't want to participate on this thread anymore. Don't take it personally. It was coming anyway And ttw you are not the only one who left things I put a lot into dangling. So it has been a very valuale thread for me in this respect.

Rosie,

my reference to " government " in that particular post which you had a question, was meant as the administration body of the government. Nilofar had correctly answered that and you also acknowledged it, thats why i left it alone.

I will answer any questions you might have.

none of what you said

has anything to do with me. the last thing i wrote to you was a very specific question about something you said. niloufar tried answering it and i told her i was waiting for your answer. a couple of times i asked where you were. i said i didn't want to discuss the sanctions here because it wasn't relevant.

people went off onto different topics because you weren't here. i did put a lot of effort into getting my thoughts together to tackle the main issue we had touched on earlier which is what the green movement was/is. i have a very different take on it from most people. it is a very large issue. i read everything very carefully, and the reason i asked you so many questions about what you meant by certain things you said was to clarify the background and also the terminology, before i articulated my ideas, first to myself, then to you and others.

all i will say is that i don't think green has anything ultimately to do with believing in electoral fraud, that was not the only thing i had in mind but it was a big part of it. it also goes right back into the issue of majority versus rights which we had been talking about before. but i don't want to bother now. it's too much work. i would rather cut my losses.

i'm sorry you were sick. i hope you're feeling better.

Rosie,

I had a stomach flu for the last few days and unable to contibute to this blog. When i came back and read some of the comments posted here, i noticed the other contributers have deviated from the topic of this blog. Since the intend of my blog is to collect different views on the topic which i started, when i realize there are no other fresh outlooks, i decide not to continue. Excuse me for my rudeness, but i am not game for finger pointing.

This thread is dead. Unless you offer a new outlook.

if a blogger

is going to end a serious ongoing discussion, whether or not it is on a blog they posted (but especially if it is), they should say so.

About the survey

The survey does show figures overwhelmingly against IRI. Are these figures questionable? Well, all figures are qeustionable. I think such figures would've been impossible before the uprising, but those events definitely did not make IRI or AN Mr. Popularity. Had this not been the case, the sanctions would not even have gone through the way they did. Neverteless, they are (to me) a bit surprisingly extreme.

What strikes me as making the survey look reliable are the stats on Pakistan and Indonesia, which stick out like a sore thumb. Why would the survey-makers want to do that unless they had some vested interest in demonizing Pakistan and Indonesia, which why bother? The African figures are quite sober, and as such also stick out. What I am wondering is where is why isn't Venezuela there?

In doing the basic wiki check, the Pew organization is the charitable fund of Sunoco, and it is VERY conservative.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pew_Charitable_Trusts

That doesn't necessarily make them liars though. There are a number of questions that can be asked to try to ascertain the validity of this survey. Are there any other surveys they have done which we have accepted as and/or have been proven factual? Do they have respected vocal critics of how their surveys are compiled and/or used? And so on.

Do I or don't I like it, those are not the questions to be asked.

I'm queasy about a survey on Iran by the Sunoco family trust. However the flip side of that is would those people not have a real vested interest in trying to find out the truth? (And the flip flip side is, but if they did would they disseminate it???...)

That's Great NP

We will ignore an objective survey that is done by an independent organization and instead we will believe....well...I guess you!

Tell you what, next time you want to write your hallucinations in praise of the IRI, you should qualify at as this:

"while there are independent surveys that show that IRI itself and its nuclear program are highly unpopular across the world--including in Muslim nations, and including even IRI lackeys like Lebanon, I [insert appropriate reason here, such as: "based on what my handlers have told me", or "along with my like-minded close circle of friends", or "along with the voices in my head"] believe that IRI and its nuclear program are highly popular and loved in the world.  This way, you won't come across as a liar...like you do now.

Mola

Stop Preaching and start seeing the light. Get on board (the jetliner in the picture) and embrace the truth (round trip ticket purchase required. this offer is not good in combination with others.)

Another reason why

the so called "opposition" (who resides outside Iran) not having a chance of changing anything inside Iran is the combination of their arrogance, ignorance and undemocratic ways towards others. Take a look at some of the comments made by them here and you'll see what I mean.

I Support Khamenie,

I have been wondering...

why do you support Khamenie?

"Good observation...."

Hey nassrullah, never mind the niceties, your fearful buddy I hear knows of vacancies at IHOP and gas stations willing to take on hard up khalifat khamenei's agents. They dont mind if you speak arabic only either.

Now, emshi :)

No Fear,

Good observation when you wrote:

"In order for a revolution to succeed, all political and social groups need to be united, otherwise the revolution will encounter strong resistance from groups oppose to it. In my opinion, the "muslim majority" of Iranians who control the military and some other power centers in Iran, did not agree with this solution."

I believe (by observing the political upheavals that has followed the Iranian revolution) the ruling clerical class has always closed ranks to repel any serious challenges to its rule. This time around has not been any different either. This regime, Velayat Faghieh is here to stay in one form or another for the foreseeable future. Hence, "Our democratic rights must be gained through peaceful and respectful activism." 

Iran #1

Most hated country in the world, two years in a row!

//www.globescan.com/news_archives/bbc2010_cou...

Highly respected indeed..

One of the greatest civilizations in the world, and these bearded monkeys have turned it into laughing stock. 

Fooladi,

by fooladi on Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:44 AM PDT

The only "Gas" this "person" pumps is constant cut and paste of the IRI information ministry's worthless propaganda bulletins on this site that very few  read let alone comment upon favourably, apart from you and "one eyed woman".

Now, you might find being an agent of the islamist khalifat regime a nice topic of humour. After all you are not Iranian, you are a jewish American girl. Right??? However the inmates of Evin torture chambers would not see the funny side of these agents, be rest assured Madamme.

_____________________

Fooladi, first go up the thread and take note of each person who read No Fear carefully and addressed him carefully. Note the different political affiliations. Then write a separate post addressed to each of them by name telling them they're totally discredited and why. as you just did me.

Next, show one place on this thread (or anywhere on this site) where I commented 'favorably' on (i.e. agreed with) something No Fear said except to say  that I thought he was sincere.

If you can do those two things (or acknowledge that you can't), we'll take it from there. 

Kharmagas...

You are the one who is busting his butt, yap-vocating to keep people who speak based on logic (yet in your mind this is ill-construed and you see them as fighters... why... god only knows... actually god even has given up on this idiocy and has left you behale khodet) away and you are the one who wishes total success for those who would have to use revolutionary fervent tactics in order to do so.

I am sorry, Can you de-code your own message here please? X and fooladi... syncophant... what? are you feeling dizzy again?

Doctor Fooladi in revolution!

Two souls in one body,

Two sycophants in one,

Two IDs but one person,

Sometimes X sometime fooladi!, there you have Doctor Fooladi in revolution! go revolution, ..., go!

onlyiran

i don't believe the survey either

Khar magasino

IN your rush to defend the angels and truthseekers, You mistyped Holocaust... you wrote Holoo's cost. Which is i am sure way beyond what you afford nowadays. it is ok though. Things will get better, much much better, by not keeping things and people away for no good reason.

Onlyiran

Your logic and Mantegh is really getting on the nerevs of some people in here. They may find a way to shower you with Gooje gandideh and Hooloo, right here on the internet.

Aghleshan shoroo karde pare sang vardashtan...onam che pare sangayi:))

The Fearless "Gas pumper"......

The only "Gas" this "person" pumps is constant cut and paste of the IRI information ministry's worthless propaganda bulletins on this site that very few  read let alone comment upon favourably, apart from you and "one eyed woman".

Now, you might find being an agent of the islamist khalifat regime a nice topic of humour. After all you are not Iranian, you are a jewish American girl. Right??? However the inmates of Evin torture chambers would not see the funny side of these agents, be rest assured Madamme.

No "revolution", one more reason! (to NF)

Hazrate No Fear, although sometimes you remind me of last Iraqi Information Minister, and although Ahmadinejad sometimes irritates people for no reason (like holocaust comments), I wish you guys total success in keeping "freedom" fighters such as Only"Iran" away from Iran.

No Fear

is not writing a thesis on anything. He's come upon hard times ever since the agent budget got cut back due to the sanctions. Talking here, pumping gas and cleaning tables there, all for minimum wage, no benefits. (IRI remunerated him handsomely until they made him go part-time). He's not getting paid for any thesis writing, any reports. Just the threads. IRI Ministry of 'Intelligence' interprets the data when they get around to it. So far they have found out everybody's lying. Something they can relate to.  As can I. Only I have a different way of looking at things. I always figure if everybody's lying everybody also has a piece of the truth. Call me naive.

But it's an existential problem. What else am I supposed to think?

Niloufar - You're Lying AGAIN!!!!

Now you're lying and not even trying to hide it or sugarcoat it with long-winded comments.  Can you read Farsi, or are hoping to get away with another lie because you think that some readers here can't read Farsi?  The VOA didn't do the survey.  As the VOA report clearly says, the Pew Research Center did the survey.  Here's the link to Pew's original study:

 //pewglobal.org/2010/06/17/obama-more-popular-abroad-than-at-home/5/

Are they lying too?  Let me guess, it's a "Zionist" operation!  The only people on this planet who are telling the truth about IRI's "popularity" are IRI scum themselves...and you!  

And as far as whose psychological profile needs to be posted here, I think these couple of exchanges have made the choice clear.  I state facts and you lie, distort and when caught, lie again!  Enough said. 

the" thesis" of a traitor.......

Once upon a time, we used to come to the west to learn something useful to take back to Iran: Medicine, Engineering, Science, forign litrature.......

Now "some of us" come to the west to do a "thesis" on Iran! OK, sure that way you do some shopping whilst spying on opposition. At the same time look for a  house and visas  in the west for your extended family to run away to after your beloved islamist khalifa khamenei is hanged by his own torban in front of the Syrian embassy in Tehran.