CYRUS

To summary

First of all learn some English

So what is your point

From your poor English I could not work out if you are for or against the article

I think you should take some of your own advice, come out of the cluset and spel out your opinion ans intentions

Let I say you summary of

Let I say you summary of this article.

You must choose one of these two: Islam or Iran.
You don't have any choices. Because Islam want to do just its commands and don't leave you for yourselves. Islam says that either acceptin the government of Allah(Islam's God) or not anything. This means if you don't accept Islam's dictator power then it kill you.

But what are the secular muslims?
Are them those that neither believe Islam nor can to say It?
What do you think?
وبه خانم ميرزادگي. دوره سانسور تمام شده. لطفا حرفتان را واضح تر بزنيد تا اينقدر ايراد بر آن وارد نباشد. اگر به قول شما دو راه بيشتر نداريم ديگر چرا سعي مي كنيد طفره برويد

Let I say you summary of

Let I say you summary of this article.

You must choose one of these two: Islam or Iran.
You don't have any choices. Because Islam want to do just its commands and don't leave you for yourselves. Islam says that either acceptin the government of Allah(Islam's God) or not anything. This means if you don't accept Islam's dictator power then it kill you.

But what are the secular muslims?
Are them those that neither believe Islam nor can to say It?
What do you think?
وبه خانم ميرزادگي. دوره سانسور تمام شده. لطفا حرفتان را واضح تر بزنيد تا اينقدر ايراد بر آن وارد نباشد. اگر به قول شما دو راه بيشتر نداريم ديگر چرا سعي مي كنيد طفره برويد

Ghasem Ghasem Ghasem

Let me see if I have got it right
You believe that Cyrus was a murderer and had not humanitarian side to him
So it seems that you do not believe what people like Xenphon and Herodotus have written about him. To have such view it is obvious that you do not believe the writing of Old Testament and the praise that he got there. You also think that people like Alexander and Cesar did not know Cyrus well enough and made a mistake to honor him.
So the Greek were wrong, the Romans were wrong, obviously the Quran was wrong to commemorate Cyrus Darush and Xeroxes as “Zol Gharnain”
(As now a days Islam bashing has become the latest fashion among Iranian Diaspora and the more one insults Muslims and Arabs, the more modern and open minded he becomes. The hell with our own short comings and mistakes).

You also seem to believe that the America's forefathers, people like George Washington and Tomas Jefferson have got it wrong too and did not really know Cyrus for the murderer he was and made a mistake by using Xenephon’s Cyropedia as their point reference for America’s constitution.

It also seem to me that you do not have any faith in the modern historians like mole, Majiran, Herts Feland and many others and believe that over the past 2500 years everybody has got it wrong except you.

And you dare to call us fanatics????

We Mr rational, where is your evidence?????? Which historical references have you been looking at.
May be you can enlighten us with some of the papers that you have written on the subject or the seminar you have hosted about this matter.

How about telling us about your qualifications and the studies you have done on the subject. Or at least name a number of books you have read on the subject, that the rest of us have missed so drastically.

Otherwise I would strongly advise you to get an education. Or at least do a little research on the subject you are talking about, before opening your mouth in such public forum and making an ass of yourself

Self hatred has noting to do with open mindedness. if you have no patriotic sense then that is your loss and I would not hold my breath for other nations, Western or other wise to loose theirs

You know?? I am very interested to know if you have any role models in your life. Anyone to look up to and be inspired by, or my be you are another self riches idiot who does not value anybody but himself

Well my friend my strongest advice to you is

GET A LIFE

Thank you Jamshidd

It is me and you, Iran and true Iranians, and Iranian culture who will eventually prevail. I have so much faith in our youth of today, but not those of yesterday, who closed their eyes and handed our beloved country over to bunch of 1400 year old imported mullas. I am certain that in a thousand years, Kourosh and Ferdowsi will still be celebrated by Iranians, when there is no sign of any akhound anywhere in Iran. Payandeh Iran va Irani, whatever his/her ethnicity and religion are as long as it is personal and not imposed on others.

Well said Hot News...

Well said, Hot News.
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I find it a true and distinguished honor that the likes of Saddam, Khomeini and most other anti-Iranians hate Cyrus so much. I would NOT have it any other way. Imagine someone like Khomeini, with his backwarded and ruthless beliefs, praising Cyrus. I think that would be so disgusting. I prefer that he hated Cyrus.
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Cyrus belongs to Iran and Iranians. Period. Mullahs and bacheh akhoonds have Mohamad, ali, hassano hussein. THEY DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO PRAISE CYRUS. I WANT THEM TO HATE CYRUS.
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When I was a student, I had an Arab-Iranian friend who loved Cyrus. He loved Ferdosi. HE was a TRUE Iranian patriot, and yes, he was an Arab.
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These bacheh akhoonds, Fars, Turk, or whatever, are NOT Iranians. They have occupied Iran, but only for the time being.
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So don't be disheartened if one day you come across a writing in which Saddam had belittled Cyrus. As a matter of fact, it should bring a smile full of pride to your face. Same thing goes with this soldout "khod bakhteh" people you find in this and other threads.
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I am very glad about the comments in the thread.
.
Jamshid

Please Gasem don’t put

Please Gasem don’t put words in my mouth.
I have never said that I hated Changiz Khan. He had his own reasons to attack Iran. In fact those of us who have read the history know very well about the envoy of peace that he sent to Iran and the way Iranian local rulers under the direct order of Torkan Khatoon killed his envoy and looted their gifts.
How ever there is no comparison between Cyrus and his treatment of Babylonians on one hand and the death and destruction that Changiz khan have brought to Iran on the other.

At the end of the day it is about ones education and awareness about history.
Unless you are willing to examine the evidence fairly and in a none bias manor,
there is noting I or any body else can do to persuade you otherwise.

After all one can take a mule to the water whole but can not make it drink

Here are a few who hated Cyrus

Saddam hated Cyrus and praised Bokhtolnasr (aka Nebuchadnezzar), who was defeated by cyrus, to the extent that he named his divisions of army as Bokhtolnasr, a murderous ruler. Mullas also called Cyrus a tyrant and wanted to destroy his tomb. Frankly, seeing hatred of Cyrus by likes of Saddam and Mullas, the destroyers of iran and iranians and iranian culture, is the biggest pride upon all true iranians. It seems that likes of Saddam and Mullas have a lot of idealogical sympathizers here!

Your are so wrong sir

Cyrus was not a bloody murderer as you put it Sir. Everything that you say about him is fundamentally wrong, but you are right on Omar and his gang. For one thing there were no arabs, as you put it, in his time in immediate vicinity of iran. They migrated north after Omar succeeded. They were babylonians, assyrians, elamites, etc. And even when he confronted babylonians, he confronted soldiers, NOT innocent people, and we all know his treatment of captive jews, for whom he is more of savior than a king. You are badly uneducated sir about him, the exact same way that ayatollah khalkhali was, and obviously as much iranian as the ayatollah was (may he not rest in peace). Read the book about Cyrus by his enemy of the time, Xenophon before commenting. He is the pride of all true iranians because of his humanity. without him, there would not have been any Iran and maybe not our beautiful language and literature that we know today. Those who are iranian by heart would not mention the name of Cyrus, except with justified pride and utmost respect. And those who are iranian only by name or by birth can say whatever they want, but they cannot change the facts. There are so many books on him that you can read Sir before trashing the greatest iranian who ever lived, who was far more human 2500 years ago than any leader of any major nation of today, 2500 years later. Payandeh Iran.

to Behrooz

Isn't that a suprise to you that almost all who hate Changiz Khan have have non-moghol names? while moghols
love him.
Korosh has killed so many arabs as well as assyrians,
as well as people from other nations.
He was a bloody murdered, as well as the Ali Abotaleb,
Omar, Mohamad, Changiz and Hitler.
stop being a fanatic, you are no different than those
islamists. Mohamad, Korosh, Xerxes, Darius whoever....
they were bunch of murderer bullies, get a life man.

People will belive what they want to belive

Well,
after all there is so much that one could do
You can provide education, reasoning historical evidence and indisputable historical facts, but those who want to believe otherwise,will do.

At the end of the day people would believe what they want to believe

Just as there are still people who believe the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth, there are still people who believe Cyrus was like Changiz Khan and there is no value in Iranian history and identity.

Well guys no wonder you are all homeless refugees scattered around the world, treated as second class citizens and in the lowest paid jobs.

After all if you do not have any respect for yourself why should anybody else?
:o)

P.S Is'nt it so funny that all the people who are agresive towards koorosh and Persianidentity have Arabic names

is it only me or do you see aconnection too

Burn pasargad

I for one am hoping that the sivand dam will take care of this fallacy symbol and free us from this bigotry once and for all, lets finish what Alexander failed to finish, lets hope this sivand dam will finish it.
Korosh is a daemoon whose name is still haunting people with self-righteousness.

See Iranians through newspaper archrives

Kourosh Aryamanesh was assinated in Paris by Islamic Republic of Iran terrorists.

//iranpoliticsclub.net/history/ctesiphone/

Ali Khan

well Ali

I must admit, this is so rich from a person who shows no respect toward other people’s opinion or even historical facts, to ask for respect from others toward his own ill-conceived sarcasms.

Respect my friend, is a two way street. If you are prepared to insult other peoples values icons, and role models, then you should not really complain when the favour is returned. If you are prepared to make a mockery of historical facts then you have put yourself on the line of fire and you can not rely complain when you are mucked by others

If a claim and discussion is made on a educated logical and realistic ground then of course there is always room for discussion, however if it is based on ignorant bigotry and insult then the writer should not really complain when they get a taste of their own medicine

Let's show some respect

I was saddened to read the sarcastic and rude comments of of Areyo B. You think his love for Cyrus so called benevolence stems from his respect for other’s right to express their opinions, but alas.... Let's hope Cyrus had more tolerance that you have Areyo. It is unfortunate to see your passionate support of Cyrus as a great defender of others' rights, has done nothing toward your respects for others' right to express their opinions. Let's hope the fallacies told on Cyrus alleged respect for human rights holds more water than yours!

were is your evidance, Hasanak

Mr Hasan
could you please name one city which was burned to the ground by Koorosh or one credible historian who puts Korosh and Changiz khan in the same category.

P.S Please provide references

otherwise get yourself some education

:o)

Korosh was a bigot

Korosh, Mohammad, Changiz and Hitler all were bigots.

Korosh and Changiz Khan

We like korosh simply because he was the first king
of a country which iran is a small part of it, and
the fact that we think he was our first king.
For the same reason Moghol can have the same respect
for Changiz khan, they are really no different.
One nation's hero is another one's villain.
Mohammad brought destruction and death upon many other
nations but arabs love him, the same way we like Korosh and all the destructions he brought to others we simply ignore by saying "Meh, he was great for iran", so what? he was a murderer and sacker of the cities and houses, like many others.

EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDUCATION

Well Alamate Soal

In your question you are seeking a simple answer to a complex question and that is not always easily achievable.

To get your answer you need to examine each war that Persia was involved in separately and in its own context.

So I encourage you to open a history book from a European or American (Non Bias) historian and read about each one of these wars and its surrounding circumstances individually.

From the war of Babylon to his last war with the nomadic Queen of Deserts almost all of them was provoked by threats to security of Persia and the welfare of its people. In none of them he was the aggressor, but the defender of the rights of his own people as any responsible ruler should be

Although he concurred many countries Cyrus never imposed his own rule upon them and always appointed a ruler from their own people.

This is exactly the same diplomatic approach, which is being followed even by today's super powers.

The only difference is that his approach was more fair and honest.

So the key to your answer is

EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDUCATION

یک سوال

اگر کوروش اینقدر آزاد منش و آزاد اندیش بوده چه دلیلی داشته که به کشور کشایی های پی در پی بپردازد و سرزمیتهای تحت فرمانش را کسترش دهد؟

Get your Facts Straight

t is so sad to here people like Abdolhosein and Ali.

The ignorant self-proclaimed “experts”, who never bothered to open a book in their life and read the history of their own country.

For a person to even compare a leader like Cyrus to a murderer tyrant like Changiz khan. He either has to be so stupid and historically illiterate or so consumed by his own racism that he could not distinguish the good from the bad. Well, I am sure that there are still many people in Europe who are proud of Hitler and what Nazis did, but that does not make Nazis great and certainly will not put Hitler in the same category as people like Cyrus the great

For your information Ali I would refer you to the book Iran Before Islam which was written by three NON IRANIAN historians who do not have any thing to gain by exaggerating Iranian history or Cyrus’s personality.

Read about the insurgent activities of Babylonians along the borders of Persia problems they caused in the merchant routs and the people they killed. Even with several attempts from Persia to negotiate with Babylon and stop them, Nabock Nasar (The Babylonian King) refused to cooperate and Iranian had no choice but direct intervention in order to protect heir own citizens.

It is so funny to see people like you to defend direct intervention odf countries like US in Afghanistan and Iraq or even attacking without giving diplomacy a chance Iran on one hand, and putting a peace at all cost hat and judge Cyrus’s act from a era that they do not even understand. If this is not hypocrisy Then I do not know what is???????????

The bottom line is that historian and scholars all thought history have discussed and examined and examined this evidence and the facts about Cyrus’s humanitarian nature, over and over again. Many of them were rivals and enemies of Persia however after 25 century of scrutinising and examining the evidence none of them have even come close to the conclusions that like of Ali and Abdolee came to (without reading even a single book). I thing that should reveal enough about the mind set and level of these guys intellectuality

From Herodotus to Xenophon, from Romans to Europeans and from America’s forefathers to today’s modern historian have examined this evidence and they all came to the same conclusion.

Now to see an arrogant idiot who never bothered to open a book in his life and easily lets is racism to get into the way of his judgment, putting Cyrus and Changiz khan in the same category I can only say that I an utterly disgusted by the level of ignorance and the tremendous stupidity.

Another point that I wanted to mention to Ali was that If Cyrus had no humanitarian side to him and only freed the slaves of Babylon to get back at Israelis then why there is no mention of this strategic movement in even one single historical record old or new and after all wouldn't it be easier for him to just attack and destroy Israel and loot their assets, just like any other ruler of that era? Why bother to go through all the trouble of political correctness for the people and era, who had no understanding of the concept. I am afraid your logic just does not add up

Finally to Anonymous-123421354 I should remind that, knowing ones past and being inspired by it is more important that you think, as this is the key to the future.
Most of our problems as a society today, are because we are trying to be something we are not. Something other than our own identity. We have lost our ways and are looking for the solution to our problems in other people’s culture (Arabs or Westerners).

For the past few centuries this approach had disastrous consequences for us as a nation and unless we start going back to our own principals as a nation, the same vicious circle continues.

As the English say: THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE A PAST WILL NOT HAVE A FUTURE

//www.bidari.org

//www.bidari.org

Cyrus

To Abdolhossein.

Abdolhossein az esmet maloome ke heechy haleet nist.To hamoon fekr kon ke Kourosh yek khorafat boode

Cyrus and the Jewish question.

Let's set the myth apart from the facts.

Although Cyrus is named in the Jewish holly literature as a man of God who helped Jews return from bondage, there are historical facts seldom talked about regarding this glorified story.

At the time that a very large Jewish population was forced out of their homeland and were kept hostage by the rulers of Babylon to assure peace in the land of Israel, the Jewish population in Jerusalem were little by little getting used to having the power to themselves and were getting accustomed to political power and its corrupting fruits.

While the Jewish community in Babylon had to reach deep in their hearts to live according to the Jewish teachings, the Jerusalem crowed were becoming fat cats who could care less about God and his difficult to follow commandments.

So over the years Jerusalem Jews became very much in support of keeping the Jewish prisoners in bondage in Babylon. They did not want these pure revolutionaries back in Israel. So, the Jerusalem Jewry sent funds and provisions to the rulers of Babylon to keep the captured Jews from returning to their homeland. And they also began to support the king against the Persians who were clearly a threat and upon a Persian victory; they knew well that the returning revolutionary Jews would not let them enjoy life as they were now used to.

The Jewish population in Babylon therefore began sending messages and in many ways encouraged and helped Cyrus to attack and capture Babylon so they could be set free.

Cyrus did not free them out of the generosity of his heart or his belief in human rights, but simply it was a political pay back. He just paid the favor back by helping the Jewish community getting back to Israel and with the help of the mighty Persian army, defeat the ruling Jewish tribes and take their homeland back.

In politics then as in now, people and countries were seldom inspired by human rights or other niceties. It was then as it is now a give and take game with whoever best served your self interests. And of course in order to eternalize it, it had to somehow be done by god or for god, and there we have the nice stories on Cyrus the Great and freeing of the Jews. You want proof? God said so himself!

Yes!

Sohrab_Ferdows couldn't have explained it better!

Thanks!

Cyrus was not a myth. He

Cyrus was not a myth. He was as real as one can be. Ms Mirzadegi has given a very beautiful example by making comparison with another conquerer who took satisfaction in destroying other civilizations. It is true that conquering some territories and expanding any empire in those days required use of force and knowing that Cyrus himself was killed by sword in one of those battles shows that expansion of empire was not a totally peacfule process. The question is which conquerer issued a set of commandments to be used as a constitution for the people who lived under the rule of that empire with fairness and justice in a very advanced manner for those days. It is also true that Changiz khan was another extremely smart conquerer but he came from a society that lacked the degree of civilization which Persian empire enjoyed even more than a thousand years before his time. He was a great warrior but his aim was mostly to "overcome" and subdue others to prove his supremacy. his heir Holaku was lucky to have someone like khajeh Nezam on his side who helped him to become familiar with Persian civilization and learn from Persians.

Having said these, the point of the article is not to prove if Cyrus was real or not because the evidences in this regard are in  front of the eyes of the people of the whole world. The point was to draw our attention to the choices which our society is facing today. To live as a civilized society which respects human rights as recognized by all advanced societies in the world or follow the path of lawlessness and ignorance and destruction under rule of an irresponsible government which its leaders take pride in their own rhetorical slogans against other nations while savagely supressing their own people.

Let the past to pass

I don't know what good does it do to talk about Koorosh and him freeing the Jewish slaves 2500 years ago. Today we have a maniac running the country and he is on the verge of starting a war and most probably disintegrating whatever left of Iran. I think that should be the main worry now. I am sure in any country that you go, you will find a hero or maniac that lived some years ago. What good does it do today?

Fantastic Article

It is quite demorolizing to read some of the comments though. Let's hope that there are more intelligent people reading this also. It is obvious that these creatures have completely missed the point of the article. Wow! Very interesting. Just a little clarification for such morons - although probably useless - I know of "kings" who have saved nations and I can think of "people liberators" who have massacred nations - I hope mentioning Stalin will be enough. I think people should study any individual, king or messiah, and make up their own mind about them. And from the little that I know about Cyrus, he deserves to be remembered as someone who at least tried to do some good, if nothing else. Of course if you are a perfectionist, nobody should be considered good. 

Name is Islamic but the soul is free

I have no problem adding the names of our Islamic leaders to the list. My name is Ali but my soul is free. Tens of thousands of our country men were slaughtered by the attacking Islamic forces, our women were raped and our young were taken as slaves. And like the rest of them this was all done in the name of God and the betterment of humanity.

I pass the Mongolian Embassy every day on my way to work in Washington DC and see the statue of the God (Changiz), funny he too has Cylinder with all the reasons that he raped the world. They say he only killed the rich, the corrupt and the powerful. They say he was a blessing, like fire he burned all the was holding the nations in chain. What can I tell you!

To ALi

Ali

You are mistaking Korosh for Ali son of Abootaleb.