TANZ

Free Thinker

Saeed Kafili, Persian Westender, ZD:
How refreshing !
My faith in Iranian.com readers is restored.

Saeed Kafili & persian westender

Well said, well written, well put ...

We've got to learn to produce facts and provide solid evidence. We must listen to the arguments. Hearsay is not evidence!

Personal attacks on anyone who disagrees with you only shows extreme lack of intellect.

I know you will argue "people do it all the time"... Yes they do... just watch the news!
Just listen to the politicians!

Do you believe them?
If not, don't try to emulate/imitate them.
That will certainly get us nowhere!

--Also, I need to add that this does not happen only on this site, just look
at 'you tube' to get an idea what's going on in peoples minds!

To: Saeed Kafili

Very well said!

Recently, I have been more observer/participant of some online forums and web-logs which are designed to analyze social/political issues in Iran. More or less, I also have been observant of some other discussion forums in western culture.

Interestingly, and at the same time unfortunately, I have noticed that many Iranian respondents to different topics and issues (mostly political)  have a strange tendency to bash, insult, or accuse the author of the idea instead of the arguing or commenting the idea itself. Particularly, when the topic of discussion is issued by a known figure with a controversial and nonconformist political background, this tendency is aggravated; although the main idea could have nothing to do with author’s background. This worrying trend of bashing the author, instead of criticizing his/her point of view, is known as ‘Ad hominem’ fallacy, in which the author of an argument is attacked not by his argument, but by his characters.

While I can not claim that this trend is only limited to Iranian blogs, I have noticed that it is more prevalent in Iranian discussion forums (In Iranian.com seems to be less? You tell me!).

I would hypothesize that it might be a cohort effect for younger generation in which during 80’s and 90’s post-revolution in Iran, many of political presentations was based on accusations, slogans and dramatic manifestations in which lacked a rational process of argument. In other words, in our ‘political collective unconscious’ we as younger generation have seen many accusations within slogans or media propaganda; without seeing evidences, reasoning and justifications. We used to witness the defeating of ‘estekbare jahany’ means pouring in street and bashing it by zealous slogans. By this act maybe we learned, we can be exempt from engaging in any argumentative process to prove the case. Religious justifications in political context may also have enhanced this misunderstanding that we can be entitled for the accusations. When I say ‘we’, it doesn’t mean that we should have been necessarily participated in the process. By witnessing this trend the younger generation may have been affected and therefore associate any political expression can come with ‘ad hominem’.

I might be wrong and this is just a hypothesis, but whatever it is, this trend of responding to ideas (accusing the author by stigmas such as spy, servant, traitor...) unfortunately only makes hatred and disgust; reduces the argument to a displeasing engagement.           

Soheila - WELL PUT! Thanks for your comment.

The truth hurts. Farah is a lame person. She's a fantasy and so is her silly title of QUEEN. QUEEN of what? Hearts of Los Angeles? It's over and this worship of this family is really unhelpful to improving Iran, unless Iran wants to know how to get the best diamond shops and yachts - oh and interior design. Please.... these are not freedom fighters. They are hacks.

To: All

I will listen to you, and your opinions about your political views. I try to weigh your logic, and if I am convinced, I submit to it, and deep down, I thank you.

 You want to tell me about the advances of Iran, under the Pahlavis, I'll listen, but don't make fun of Khamenei's handicap, or Ahmadinejad's height.

 You want to tell me about all the bad things that the two Pahlavis Shah's did, I'll listen, but don't take cheap shots at their wives.

You want to tell me what a hero Ayatolla Khomeini was, I'll listen, but don't call everyone, who didn't agree with him, a "traitor".

You want to tell me how horrible the Islamic revolution was, I'll still listen, but don't tell me everyone who wanted a revolution was a foreign agent.

 I am willing to sit down before historical facts, prepared to give up every preconceived notion, humbly wherever and whatever logic leads, but you lose me, when you take cheap shots; when you pull things out of the air, when you curse, when you hate unconditionally, or love unconditionally.

 No matter what our political views are, I hope that we are all decent Iranians. We do not cross the line of decency. I'd like to see this wonderful forum free of these poisenous ways of expression.

 Can we all just agree on this?

to Soheila K. MD.

Your MD shines through after your name. What an intellectual person you are. What have you done for your country? Have you done anything positive in helping your fellow compatriots in fighting the hellish life provided to them by the IRI? Or all you have to do is complaining that Pahalvai family haven't done anything for Iran. May be they don't want to. But it seems like you really are into helping-out Iranian people, or may be not?

"Bunch of butcher shop owners, and charlatan kasseb-kar, millitary thugs and similar characters who left Iran and somehow got their Green Card to come to US or the shithole alleys of Paris or Stockholm or Amsterdam" is the crew that you are from. Stop criticizing others, and keep on raising your level to the head butcher rank in your local "boucherie"!

"They have never produced anything in their entire lives, they cheated and stole from the rest of Iranians. Now in a foreign land they failed, since they did not know the honest way of making a living and they never wanted to learn how to. They do not have a single publication abroad that worth reading, their only pride is how many Persian restaurant has been built in their neighborhood and the quality of fruits at the the Persian gorcery stores...." How do you know they have not been productive or have cheated and are "charlatan". "Kafar hameh ra be kish-e khod pendarad..."

And no, no one goes to Iran to bring those nasty gaz and the rest of the garbage you'd talked about. There are enough yummy pastries here to let go of the primitive gaz and sohan. There are more important things in Iran for visitors to get to. You have a narrow vision; but one might think it's easier to live life as you are than to suffer with the injustice Iranian people are facing every day (in Iran)....

Stay the Course

Dear Jeesh daram
It seems that your piece has struck a few chords. The issue of the Pahlavis' disposed dynasty remains a hot topic amongst us all. However, some of us, for very obvious reasons, have a skewed opinion on this subject. Those of us who resort to extreme language, profanity, and insults, are not deserving of a response.
For the rest of us: One need not attend an Ivy League school, or even know what that means, to know or remember the wrongs committed by the Shah, his family members, and his entire regime.
There is no excuse for defending the Shah's son (whose IQ seems to be lower than room temperature), his widow (whose superficiality is her only legacy) and every member of the royal family (e.g., Ashraf Pahlavi and his corrupt son, Shahram) whose collective corruption resulted in a mass uprising of Iranians, which brought about the tragedy of present-day Iran.
Some of us may have already forgotten that the Shah took his family and fortune, along with his dog, to safety as he left his most loyal servants locked up in prison. Whether or not those servants deserved their fate is a subject for another time.
You, dear Jeesh daram, stay the course and continue your good work.

TO: MRX

No I don't get pissed at Farah and will never expect her (or any of the Pahlavi's) do anything positive for Iranians. As a matter of fact, I think that she is probably the only relatively decent member of the Pahlavi clan. But I get pissed at people who still try to resell the Shahbanou and the rest of dysfunctional Pahlavi's as our saviors. My point is that those of us (including you) who like our lives so much that we don't even dare to go back for a visit should not pretend to be the mouthpiece and heroes for the Iranian people. Please leave the matter to 70M people inside Iran.

she is not nuts

I don't know what the priorities of Farah pahlavi is and what it is she should do or not do?

but as far as I know, she has never said that she is taking a leading charge in fighting islamo facist regime. Not every one has a leadership characterestic in them. she in no expetion. Every one is looking for a hero and when we don't find one or when we think the peron is not heroic we get pissed at them.
What possible good will come out if she ventures back to Iran and get killed? she likes her life as much as all of you do. get real!

TO: MRX

There is nothing wrong with taking pictures with Alain Delon, but it shows what her priorities or those of other dysfunctional Pahlavis are. I bet she doesn’t socialize with Alain Delon and the like to talk about politics and how to save Iran. Even that is fine in my book provided that she or her son doesn't pretend that they are tirelessly fighting for the Iranian nation. If that’s the case, we should see their pictures with dissidents campaigning against IRI and, yes, even going back to Iran and fight like what Benazir Bhutto did. Otherwise, they should keep quiet and live the rest of their comfortable lives in the west.

از قدیم گفتن " مهمآن حبیب خداست

اقای جهآنشاه , سی سال توی این غربت به ما همه اسمی چسبوندن , حالا مرغ هم روش خوب آشکالی نداره اقلا از یک هموطنه,
خلاصه سر پیری احسآس مرغ شدن هم آز بیکآری بهتره.ر
موفق بآشی

TO: MRX

a picture is better than a thousands words, take a look again, does she look like someone who will save you from your misery?

Now Reza is a different nut case....

please enlighten us Ms. Soheila K., MD

since some of us are not educated in ivy league schools in U.S and Europe, please educate us as to what exactly is wrong that Farah pahlavi taking a picture with french actor Alain delon? how does that manifest to deepest pain of our culture? who is this they that stole money and produced nothing? what have you produced that is so nobel? name the people who stole money and give us some evidence? so you want farah pahlavi to risk her life and go to islamic sewer republic to get killed or imprisoned? (like zahara kazemi!) what sane human being would do such a thing! pakistan with all it's short commings is far more democratic and open thanks to musharaf. if we were lucky to have some one like him in Iran, perhaps then many other people including farah pahlavi would venture there, untill then book is closed.

Iranboy, pesare aziz boro

Iranboy, pesare aziz boro darseto bekhoon va be in kara kari nadashteh bash. Be babat ham keh hanooz bozorg nashodeh begoo keh shah kheili vaghteh keh gooresho goom kardeh va rafteh. Digeh lazem nist az koone Pahlavi ha bekhoreh.

Deepest pains of your culture

I have read a few of Jeesh's articles including this one. I do not think he is trying to be funny as some of you refer to. What he is talking about is the deepest and darkest shortcomings of a culture. Some of you might laugh and some will cry.

Quite a few of you are pissed off because he is touching on Pahlavi's. Let's see who is supporting Pahlavis? Let me tell you: Bunch of butcher shop owners, and charlatan kasseb-kar, millitary thugs and similar characters who left Iran and somehow got their Green Card to come to US or the shithole alleys of Paris or Stockholm or Amsterdam.

They have never produced anything in their entire lives, they cheated and stole from the rest of Iranians. Now in a foreign land they failed, since they did not know the honest way of making a living and they never wanted to learn how to. They do not have a single publication abroad that worth reading, their only pride is how many Persian restaurant has been built in their neighborhood and the quality of fruits at the the Persian gorcery stores....

While their children prosper in the foreing land, the old fart is still holding animosity to anyone who criticizes bunch of thugs and lazy asses such as the former clans.

What have they done for you lately, I might ask? Wasn't three dcades enough time for them to do a shit for Iran with all the money they stole? Your royal leftovers?

The answer is that they will not and can not do a shit. The IRI is merely a branch of Pahlavi and for some of you the truth is extremely difficult to swallow. You will choke on it.

Here is a picture of your queen with Alain Delon the French actor. Take a look at her majesty (Queen is the one on the right in case you forgot), will she be the one to come close to Benazin Bhutto for you thirsty anarchists?

Will someone open his guts and confess that following a forgotten regime, is only a mentally-handicaped solution to a pain that a nation is still suffering from.

The solution for the removal of the Islamic government is not Pahlavi, let them rest in peace with the Iranian oil dollars that has provided them the life of aristocracy that they never achived, intellectually.

Let them go back to Iran for the national reconciliation the Benazir Bhutto style, but as Jeesh is sadly saying here, they won't even dare to go to the border, let alone to do a shit for the dreaming seniles....

Here is the picture: Alain Delon is the one on the left:

//www.payvand.com/news/07/mar/Delon-Farah.jpg

They spend thousands of dollars just to make sure negative articles do not show up against them at Google and other sites. notorious they are, notorious.

What happened?

Jish, you used to be funny but with class. Now you are neither.

one thumb down

most of the time jish is funny and to the point, but this one lacks the humor with an exception of one line about phoney ebadi.

You are ALL mixed up

to leila: changed my mind? about what? I am a reformed pasdar but still a pasdar. Pahlavis have no popular base in Iran like the Bhuttos. Z A Bhutto was a populist leader like Mossadegh but M R Shah was a largely unpopular and now a forgotten figure in Iran.

to Van Gogh: Callaremos!

to Jeesh daram : bia khodam sarepat migiram :))

to the Monarchists: go eat your hearts - there will never be the like of a Bhutto in the Pahlavi family. Reza Pahlavi, Farah and the rest of the ganag have done NOTHING to show care for the people of Iran. There will never be a Pahlavi back in Iran. They are NOT A THREAT to the IRI otherwise they would have been taken out by now. The regime needs them as much as they need the regime to wash out their wrongs.

Vassalam

Thanks Fred Jan!

Thanks Fred Jan!

Ella

The lines you asked about are from a sonnet(Ghazal) by Nasser Khosrow Ghobadiani

Hemayat... Hemayat...

Hemayat... Hemayat... Ab-erooye hameh ma arteshi haro bordi keh mard.
In che tarz harf zadaneh?
In che dahanieh?
Khodeto kontrol kon, mard aziz,
Defaa mikoni defaa kon, vali na injoori.
Oon khoda biamorz in joorish ro nemikhast!
Dar bein omoom la-aghal in joori nakon mard.
Ma hameh aberoo darim, heisiat darim...
Shoma keh digeh hichi baghi nazashti, Aghaye aziz!

To: jandar-mery keshvar or anyone

Who is this poem by : "Ay Koshteh Ke-ra Koshti ta...?
It's very famous, but who is it by?
thnx.

To: Ajab

 The Pahlavi family issued an announcement a few years ago, saying Farah's Mother never wrote a book. Apparantly, the days the IRI just changed the contents of  books or cencor them are gone. Today, they shamelessly write your memoirs for you. Please do not get fooled by these thugs.

Iranboy, you don't know shit...

the IRI could not get away with a political assassination like this, today which is why they are not happening. Don't be a FOX NEWS idiot, and don't use your dadday as the only source of information. There have been numerous blanket amnesty laws issued even for people who escaped illegally. Even people previously wanted for various political crimes, have gone back. Half of LA goes to Iran every summer with their IRI passwport - to try the best restaurants and tourist spots in Tehran, always coming back with boxes of Gaz and Sohan which they enjoy while "plotting" to overthrow the regime from the comfort of their mansions

It's been 30 years, and they haven't accomplished jack shit. Iranians have better things to worry about than to start a revolution on account of some forgotten overweight assholes from America.

To Iranboy

Son, I can understnad that you are supporting us the Royal family, but please calm down. You are too young to mix in these sensetive subjects.

What your age or your dad's age has to do with anything?

We are a busy family and we have our own hitmen all over the world. We suffocate any opposition voice as we sish, anywhere, anytime and onthe spot. Please do not interfere with our affairs. My mom says "Hi" but she also orders you to just go back and do your own things, whatever they are.

Again, we as the Royal family order all of our subjects (70,0000,000) Iranians to not interfere with our affairs. We will do with you what we did with Bakhtiar in Paris. We also took care of Ashraf's son since he was getting out of line.

Don't cross us.

Regards,
We The Royal family

Monarchists

Monarchists are burning.

Their unpaid salaries sitting in Iran and they don't dare to go back and claim it.

This article tells them that the King is Dead!

Your Queen is not even close to an average Pakistani, an average Pakistani has done more than your entire royal family.

The Islamo-moarchist alliance has backfired and soon they won't even find opium to cure their ailment.

Liquidation continues....keep on dreaming

Not funny...

Very tasteless and indeed sad. "To boro jishet ra bokon, baad biya mozakhraf begoo." You deserve nothing better than IRI.

Not a good one dear Jeesh

You used to write funny stuff dear "Urine", but this one is not a good one..But don't give up and work harder to come up with better ideas.

It is almost 2008! Here you sound like one of those old toodeh-ees during the revolution in 1979 :-)

بوتو

ای کشته کرا کشتی تا کشته شدی باز

تا باز، که او را بکشد آنکه، تو را کشت

موسی برهی دید یکی کشته فتاده

حیران شد و بگرفت بدندان سر انگشت

Ajab

Very interesting writing.
A while ago, I was browsing a book written by Farah's mother. The following is an an excerpt from her book:

" ... I do not know why people make so much fuss about a few billion dollars of us, while the likes of Ford are easily 10 times richer. They are the wealthy ones, not Shah of Iran and his family ..."

She apparently forgot that "the likes of Fords" have made their money by doing something known as "work", whereas her money has come, more or less directly, from Iranian treasury!