FREE SPEECH

Apology to Caspian Sea Mermaid

The comments in my response below was meant for
Orang Gohikhani
I guess in the confusion I used your name by mistake

Please accept my most sincere apology

Sanaz a.: Okay then

I think you've proven my point. Thank you. The question is now, Why do we continue to argue among ourselves about cersorhip v.s. no censorship on iranian.com? Clearly there is evidence of censorship. Some of it is done by JJ or his staff and others may be done by us flagging certain comments.

What I want to know is "What are the guidelines to writing a comment?" If there are posted somewhere on iranian.com, please let me know where.

Natasha/Sasha

yes sacha/ natacha

yes, sacha/ natasha,,,i once made a few comments on Ben's retarded and offensive articles, and i didnt use foul lang. and he deleted my comments along with the comments of other people supporting me. Ben is simply pathetic. thats it

Comments are gone

I don't know if you had noticed but some of the comments made on this page are gone. The comment by someone named A and the comment I made about A and Kourosh Sassanian are gone. What is ironic I did not use foul language.Since JJ is not an island and can only do so much along with whatever staff he may have. What if he has it set up for any comment to be deleted after a certain number of flaggings? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Just a thought. HOw about if we all try it with this comment I am making. Let us see what happens. So go ahead and flag me. I give you my blessing. :o)

Natasha

Problem People, toilet Paper

It will all work out in the "end", I promise you. Toilet paper is EACTLY the right metaphor for blogging, in the sense that the Medium is the Message. The exact words we say are not the point, they are all disposable. Neither are the individuals who say them the point, nor our ideologies. What counts is the disposed ideas (our piss, our shit, please don't flag me) onto the toilet paper blog into the toilet of the website and then into the Internet, the Great Ocean of Mind of our pulsating planet.  And everything is waste, and NOTHING is wasted. Asian is right, the Truth will prevail. Ben, let it go, just keep on blogging. It will all be recycled and we are going to win.

Khodaa Haafez, Iraan.

Rosie Toilet Paper Tapurestaani

Ben, Ben, Ben… Noch, Noch, Noch, Noch, Noch

This is yet another example of double standard and hypocrisy.

So lets see if I have got it right. You like to be free to post your offensive, inaccurate and provocative article in this site. You have no problems with being free to make mockery of other people’s principals, religion, ethnicity history and role models. You would like to be able to shamelessly draw lines along ethnic divide in our country and play the I am better than you card. You have no problem with being able to insult and belittle Iranians and the people from Middle East in the name of open mindedness.
You believe noting is sacred and there should be no taboos. You have no problem with occupying the higher moral ground and judging or belittling everybody else.

However when the favour returned and the scale starts to swing the other way you start crying foul?
How pity.

It is so funny that nowadays everyone talks about freedom of speech and democracy, we all condemn mullahs, shah and many others for oppressing our people and censoring their opinions, thoughts and ideologies, but when the same people start to criticise us then we cannot wait to turn around and suppress them.

Of course, today we can only oppress these opinions by using filters and censors or pleading to JJ to take them away. However when we got into the power like IRI and the Shah we create our own SAVAK and HERASAT to make sure nobody dare to talk against us and those who do would get what is coming to them. All in the name of protection and keeping out the unwanted intrusions.

Well, I guess there is a little dictator in all of us after all.
:o)

For so many times I have read in your articles that what you are writing is for the greater good and to fulfil your duty toward your country. However when it comes into putting your money where you mouth is you are chickening out???

The sad thing is that we are all a nation of Yappers but when it comes to doing, we are not willing to make any real contributions of our own. For the same reason that you are more than happy for someone else to put their time, money and efforts to publish YOUR work while you, yourself do not see any value in it, in order persuade you of loosing a few dollars by putting some time and money to set up your own website and promote your own point of view

Also to the Caspian Sea Manmade, I should say that I am simply amazed stunned and bewildered by your comments. You claim to be an artist. However from your attitude it is obvious that you are struggling to come to terms with the most fundamental aspect of being one, and that is being able to confront and deal with your critics.

If you are even half serious about your art as you claim to be, first and formost you need to learn to listen, especially to those who do not agree with you or your work. As it is only them who are able to open your eyes and give you new perspective. Only they can give an alternative point of view that you have not considered before. It is them who can push you to improve your work and in the end in order to be a successful and universally accepted artist it is them whom you need to win over.
Other wise if you are not able to deal with being an artist in open my strongest suggestion to you is to keep your work to yourself and only show it to your mummy, from whom you are always guaranteed to get a round applause

Finally, Those who use foul offensive language would first and for most discredit and belittle themselves. The fact that they have to hide behind arbitrary anonymous names is the self-testament to the fact that how ashamed they are of themselves and their own word and how little respect they have for who they are. These are morally people with I.Q of a mosquito and a brain with the size of a pea, with noting valuable to say. They do not have the intellectual capacity to engage in an intelligent discussion and quiet often know noting about world affairs (current or past). Hence this is the only way they can express themselves

So not only these people should not discourage any real writer, artist or visionary, but also if they are half the person they claim to be it should make them more determined

.....

I can't help but think all of this is playing right into the hands of these problem people. Exactly the way they want it.

RE: MeyBokhor_Manbarbesuzan

"... it is not IRI supporters that use this languge most but their opponents..."

Yeah right... Too much meykhori while you are reading I guess....

The amount of stupid and obscene comments reminds me of....

The amount of stupid and obscene comments reminds me of a scene in the last episode of the old Iranian tv series "Atash bedune dood." During the plot of the series, an educated man tries his hand at eliminating superstition and backward cultural habit of some Turkmen tribes (if I remember correctly). Among other things, he wants to get rid of a lone old tree on top of a hill, to which residents tie prayers, etc. to fulfill their wishes or prayers for health etc. He loses the direct fight. He cannot uproot the tree, so what he does is plant trees all over the place, and the result is seen years later (the last episode) where a man tries to identify and show the old tree to a young boy , but cannot do it since it is no longer the only tree there.

Now that sword cuts both ways: drowning good comments and blogs in a bunch of bullshit so that the gems are hidden. And they are apparantly succeeding. With language that would shame the old pimps and whores of the old "Shahr-e No," and words revealing what kind of family they are raised by (we are after all Iranians), they try to equate the issue of free speech with foul speech.

There are two possibilities. Their choice of words are either a reflection of their actual character or they are simply paid to do this. And no, contrary to what some claim here, it is not IRI supporters that use this languge most but their opponents. No wonder the Iranian opposition is believed to be the best opposition any regime wants: Tabl-e too khali.

What Ben talks about is not

What Ben talks about is not particularly an Irranian issue. I have observed very similar misuse of language in all sorts of Internet circles from all sorts of nations.
Remember that the level of anonymity offered by Internet causes people to show their real side. Many who use foul language here, will be very polite if you encounter them face-to-face.

i think you do not like this

i think you do not like this beacuse some people disagree with you.

.

.

This place used to have real articles

and many are still published. The quality was better than most magazines. Why should this be like any other publication?

Harrassment over email is unpleasant, but it's easy just to delete or ignore it. Use a temporary email account. But what is by far worst is imbiciles putting up your home phone number or yelling "bomb iran" on a public website.

One man website

I surely doubt that JJ runs iranian.com by himself. He must have other people working at the main office. No man is an Island. There are too many contributors, businesses advertising, and a whole lot of comments to watch over.

Natasha

thank you Vahraz Yazdanmehr

thank u Vahraz Yazdanmehr. u couldnt have said it better! Ben, should do everyone a favor and create his own website. He needs to take his bull crap somewhere else.

To Kourosh Sassanian

Oh, not that old hat AGAIN!

For goodness' sake, learn some history and stop spouting nonsense.

.

.

Bomb Iran Now!!!

The Brits tried diplomacy with Germany and look where it got them. The Germans are a free people now, because the Nazi Regime was finally confronted with force.

Confront Mullahs with Bombs Now!!!! Free Iran Now!!!

Re: Ben... A suggestion

Ben please let me know do you think of this suggestion?

Let's say that 5+ members are picked from the pool of regular contributors. With JJ that makes it 6. Give JJ veto rights. This is his site after all. These 5+ members must have different political views. It is easy to figure the views. Just read their articles.

Then when one clicks on "Flag as offensive/spam", those members are emailed. They can review the comment and together make a collective democratic decision as to whether the comment is spam or not. That way JJ won't be tied up with this because there will be many requests. But he could veto since it's his site.

...

I think writers bring REAL readers, not the other way round, i.e. readers do not bring writers. So, JJ has not given any response so far. He is probably thinking, or maybe he has made his mind and he wants the way things are now. Writers bring readers, the rest... is up to Google. So, I think writers should have some privilage. Some writers do not want all BS beneath their work. Some may want that. That's up to writers. Some people have different opinions then they need to write their own stuff. It actually needs some work, some balls too, to write an article. I like comments, there are comments on Youtube and many other wbsites, but those websites let the authors decide whether they want comments or not. It's as simple as that, because those websites know that contributors attaract watchers/reader/commentators etc, so contributors need to be given some authority over what they create :)
Some guy said that a website doesn't cost that much... yes, in case you want a small website no-one knows about it doesn't cost more than a few bucks, but creating a serious website, advertising for it, programming it etc etc costs a lot of money. Believe me! Those people who have businesses or run businesses know what a business means. If you want to create a website and turn it into something similar to Iranian.com it will take you AT LEAST two years and probably a couple of hundred thousand dollars, let alone the time etc, and it will eventually never make any serious money ;) Iranian.com is more than a decade old and it still doesn't make money. Ain't I right JJ? Well, it is not doing so bad, and I'm glad for it :) But the Iranian community needs a solid and reputable website for Iranians, not a junk-yard of curses.

Sad aint it?

There are a few groups around here: Pro-IR (most vocal and god forbid if anyone says anything against IR or Islam - they shoot him down immediately with vulgarity, the equivalent of guns in IR), Shahis (well they talk, mostly against IR), leftist (not many left), and mostly observers (me!). But it is sad that hardly there is a fundamental challenge to an argument, but plenty of personal attack and foul language. These people are far more radical than those inside iran.

OK, how about this

my now more-refined proposal:

- First enforce the "flag as offensive" and take it seriously everwhere. 

- leave blogs as is. Blogs are all aobut participation so anonymous comments come with the territory.

- disable comments from articles. Like magazine articles, comments should not be directly underneath the piece.

- create a "letters to editor" section where anyone can write a "letter" to the editor and reference any of the articles, no registration required. People can also reply to letters. This section should have entries that show up on the front page, just like "featured blogs." The same standard of decensy (i.e. flag as offensive) should apply.

What do you guys think of this? If you are a "serious" writer as judged by yourself or by JJ, you can write an article that is on the front page without being harrassed. Otherwise, you can write a blog which gets immediate responses. At the same time, no one is "censored" either. We will still have problems but if the offensive stuff is monitored, it would be acceptable.

to: Vahraz Yazdanmehr

well said, thank you.

.

.

He Can Dish it Out, But He Can't Take It!

Well…well..well. If it isn’t Ben Madadi (alias) crying in the corner about his “work” being turned into “toilet paper” by his target audience, the readers of Iranian.com. I was going to say that if your work itself is….(well, never mind…too easy!!!). The main reason that I read Iranian.com is the freedom to be able to comment on articles and respond to those who post their writings. People who post articles should know, and presumably do know, in what kind of an environment they are posting their articles. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You cannot post provocative and inaccurate articles on a site that you know will subject it to extreme criticism and then complain about the hostile response. You have made a habit of posting highly provocative, inaccurate and offensive rants on this site, which most readers find insulting. If anything, if we are talking about censorship and “filtering” comments, perhaps Iranian.com should also filter and fact check your articles for accuracy and offensiveness as well. I am sure that if that is done, none of your rants will be posted. I also find it amusing that you are complaining about non-Iranians commenting on your articles, when it was you who counseled a commentator by the name of “Iranian-Not” who clearly identified her/him-self as a non-Iranian, and told him / her not to worry because Iranians do not understand the “modern standards of decency” (how offensive). Incidentally, I am actually encouraged to see that you have lost your desire to “write” (is that what you call your gibberish)? Perhaps that is the best thing that will come out of the Iranian.com’s comment policy: the possibility that we won’t see your nonsense on this site. In short, and at the risk of using too many clichés, if you can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen, or better yet, do create your own website and post your rants. It doesn’t cost much. Consider it a charitable donation to the community if that will stop you from appearing on Iranian .com…because it is!

The real writers with solid characters will show up

Scare and threat tactics are cheap. The real writers with solid characters males and females will show up.

Who cares what is said in

Who cares what is said in the comment section. write and let us read you. have fun with the comments. By saying your mother or dady is this or that are they turning into one? NO!

Golnaz please don't exaggerate, it's not about "disagreement"

it's about deliberate attacks and intimidation by a mob for the purpose of LIMITING freedom of speech, which I'm sorry to say is succeeding. We have lost all women writers. Why would someone put themselves through this?

This site is going to the dogs

no one reads the articles anymore because of the foul language. Ben has a point, but I think the site admins are too "kalleh shagh" for reason. It's their own loss.

censorship

if comments are going to be censored, I'd suggest blog
posts must be censored too. One day you ask for
freedom of speech, next day you want it to be removed because not everyone agrees with you?
I recall MakhmalBaf saying "there is a little dictator in all of us", we want freedom of speech as long as
we are free to say whatever we want and nobody else can disagree with us, the other way around isn't a pleasant option for us, right?
how do you like them apples?