IRAN-U.S.

Good point

Rostam,
Good point, though I would have liked to see you say the same thing to Ghool, Jamshid, Abgoosht and a few more as well!

People, really, are you here to discuss history/ideas, or are you here to troll (look at the definition on an online dictionary) and get into flame-wars that will never get you anywhere but below human intellect?

Remember, freedom is only a privilege, and it's not available in a lot of places, including our own country. Think of it as food that lacks in many parts of the world. Abusing it is like throwing out mindlessly the food that could have saved so many lives . It's exactly the same principle. So in respect of what our people back home fight for, let's not walk all over the one we have.

Re: Almo

I am neither a monorchist nor a pro-Mosadeghi nor pro-anything. I am just against the IRI. Having this clarified, I just want to tell Almo, that by using fosh and dirty words, you can't prove that Mosadegh was good or the Shah was evil or whatever else. First, you degrade your own self and your upbringing, and you belittle yourself. Second, you hurt the very cause you are trying to defend. Third, if you really have a pro-democracy spirit, then you need to present your argument with logic and facts and avoid cussing. And fourth, please don't use this site to vent off your personal anger. We are all trying to read useful information and jendeh and koskesh and so on is not very much useful to anyone.

Dear Jamshid, can you say something on pre-1953 Iran...!?

Dear Jamshid:

Thanks for the clarifications. I am not really sure whether these people have the capacity to understand the political process and the rule of law. Now
on a related topic, why is it that the recent history of Iran starts only with the event of 1953? What about the pre-1953 era? Why is it that people don’t talk about the several assassinations of the Iranian prime ministers and the attempted assassinations on the Shah himself (specially the one in 1949 which almost killed him)? Maybe the reason his government started taking freedom away from the citizens little by little was to safeguard the government from the terrorists and the subversives. Maybe that’s why the Shah’s regime decided to establish its secret police (SAVAK) to protect itself and the law-abiding citizens against the terrorists and the assassins!? This is a universal reaction. How many American government buildings (Federal or State) can you name that were protected by the barricades and concrete walls 30 years ago, none!? Today, all the government buildings in America are protected from the terrorists, domestic and foreign. Just try to walk on the side walk in front the Whitehouse after 6:00pm and see what happens to you? So, as you can see even in this country the freedom is being taken away from people little by little. It is because the government is obliged to protect itself and its law-abiding citizens from the terrorists and the subversives! Hey, if I were the government leader in Iran I would do the same thing? I think people would be able to better understand the events of the 1953 if they looked the entire context of that era!? Of course, these words to some folks around here are nothing but, ”Yasseen Dar’e Goosh’e Kharr!”

Exaclty...

I completely agree with you. Everyone must accept responsibility for their mistakes and then we can all move on. But what bothers me is that the Mosadeghi gang has never, NEVER, admitted to their mistakes of making a pact with Khomeini and turning their back to Bakhtiar. Note that Bakhtiaris are excluded from the term Mosadeghi gang.

Jamshid

Dodging responsiblity... As usual

Yes, I DO blame the messenger. I was only a teenager at the time, and the messengers being in their 50's+, had the responsibility to know where they were leading us. Since when a teenager is supposed to be like a leader with all its responsiblities? And the elders be the followers? You just don't want to place ANY blame on the Mosadeghi gang do you?

Jamshid

Re: Almo

Who are you to tell me that I am blind to the fact the US has no rights to arrange for a coup? Who are you to make such accusations? And who are you to accuse me of being the member of 75 M club?

Of course your accusations against me are baseless. I dont even know what a M75 club is. So is your other accusations toward others. And then you dare to talk about facts?

From your remarks and the fosh that you use, I can tell you are a little man (or woman) who is angry, frustrated, extremely oghdei and who has the brain the size of a pea, the emphasis being "oghdei".

Anyone reading your reply will laugh at your intelligence. And please, save your bad news for yourself, will you?

Jamshid

Wait a minute tsinoizitna... Not so fast....

tsinoizitna is asking why "did the revolution (at that time) have support from almost every segment of our population - the rich, the poor, the religious, the non religious, etc.?  Of course, it turns out that the revolution didn't work, and I'll admit that ... but..."

I've got a BIG problem with this statement tsinoizitna, BIG problem. But first to answer your question about why did the revolution (at that time) have support from almost every segment of our population? Here is your answer:

The majority of the revolutionaries were ordinary none-Islamist and none-leftists. THAT majority which included me heeded the Mosadeghi gang's calls to uprising. Again and again we poured into the streets, and man didn't we chant "death to the shah" from the bottom of our lungs...

But why did we join the revolution? Why did we end up under Khomeini's banner? Because we looked up to and trusted the Mosadeghi gang and Jebhey Melli who repeatively approved Khomeini and sealed him with their stamp of approval and painted him as the "rahbare bozorg" and a saint. Had they not supported Khomeini, THE MAJORITY OF IRANIANS WOULD NOT HAVE PARTICIPATED IN THE DEMONSTRATIONS LIKE IDIOTS. Heck, even the leftists would not have participated to save face. That would leave the Islamists who were a small minority. You see tsinoizitna, THAT'S how much Mosadegh's name had power in those days. 

Does that answer your question as to why the majority of the people supported the revolution? Because the Mosadeghi gang walked us right into this trap.

And that takes me to the BIG problem that I mentioned earlier. You said (and also the Mosadeghi gang always say the same too): "Of course, it turns out that the revolution didn't work, and I'll admit that ... but ...<change of subject>..."

Wait a minute, not so fast, don't change the subject yet. You say "Of course, it turned  out that the revolution didn't work out"? WHY? WHY IT DIDNT WORK OUT? Have you EVER bothered yourself to ask if the Mosadeghi gang had anything to do with it? Then you say "and I'll admit that ... but .." But what? Why you jump to another subject? Why don't you stay there and do a little more analysis as to what your gang did wrong before you jump to another subject?

And then you dare to say "Its hillarious seeing us Iranians ...start blaming everyone else for the stuff for which, we, ourselves, are responsible." Does your own statement here ring any bell for you?

I would love to see the day that ONE, only one member of the mosadeghi gang come forward and stop blaming others and start taking responsibilities and apologize for their past mistakes.

In my dreams....

Jamshid, I have BAD NEWS for you (again)

 Jamshid,

Obviously you are blind to the fact that US or any other government has NO RIGHT to arrange for a coup in another country. You are also blind to the DAMAGE that has been done on this great nation of Iran as a result of that interference. The Mossadegh and parliment issues were all problems for Iranians who believed in democracy and given their smarts they could handle it. Instead, CIA brought bags of money, hired Shaboon Bimokh, brought Ashraf (the Jendeh Pahlavi), and Shah (the coward koskesh). You don't need to push your brain too hard to understand the remification of what US did in Iran. Something that unfortunately its effects will remain with Iran for a long time. Your brain may explode if you try very hard to understand, but these issues have been studied and discussed by many very BRIGHT people!. You need to read history and understand people's rights and aspirations. Obviously you are naive individual or a member of "US Government's $75 M club"!. Facts don't mean anything to you.

 Al

Almo, you just proved yourself wrong. Thank you...

Almo says that "If Iranians chose Mossadegh, that is their choice and should have been respected". This is his exact quote. Well I have news for you Almo. It was NOT the people who directly elected Mosadegh. It was the "democratically elected" parliamant who "democratically" elected Mosadegh. Got that? The "democratically elected" parliamant elected Mosadegh.

And who "democratically elected" the parliamant? THE PEOPLE, that's who. And who shut down the "democratically elected" parliamant? MOSADEGH, that's who. 

So in your own words, if Iranians democratically chose the members of the parliamant and this choice should have been respected, why did Mosadegh shut the majlis down??? Just because a democratically elected body of goverment is democratically opposing you, you then just go ahead and shut it down??? Sorry pal, Mosadegh was as much a dictator as the Shah was, the only difference was that he never remained in power long enough to show it, so then based on Iranian customs and traditions he instantly became an emamzadeh.

Ah! But I know one of your possible objections: He closed the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED majlis because he wanted to declare a public refrundum. Next question: Why when a leader of a 3rd world country declares a refrundum, in 100% of cases HE wins (not 99.9 percent but 100%)? Another question, if Bush wants to pass a bill and the congress and senate oppose him, does that give him the right to order the military to shut down both congress and senate and then declare a public refrundum? The answer is NO. Things don't work like that in a true democracy.

You members of the Mosadeghi gang are blind to his mistakes because in your minds you have made and emamzadeh out of the guy.

Jamshid

Ghooljende

You got any family over in Iran?  Just wondering given how you favor the carpet bombing of the country that you supposedly came from.  Now cool down, cause no one here is a mullah follower, but no one here is a shyster necon lover either ... unlike you.  Now go and jerk off in the corner dreamin about all the bombings.  How bout this, why don't you participate in the bombings?  Get off your hairy fat as* and join the army.  I know ... get you fucked up son and daughter to do it.  Then we'll see how loud and shyster-like you will be, you muthafuckin jende.

Ghooljende

If you had a fuckin brain you'd know that when one refers to a payment, it doesn't always involve money or cash.  US, as many times before, may pay the shyster pahlavi back by installing him in there after the invasion.  Get a life ghooljende.  Love it when I see a stupid a*s like you put an equation in a message just to make themeselves look smart.  Now go and fuck yourself you wannabe boy.  Are you a Persian?  Why do you rag on Persians so much ...   calling them animals, etc?  who knows, maybe cause you and your insecure as* ain't proud of being one!?  Or maybe you're just one of those darker ones that have never been liked.  Whatever the reason, get over it.  Now go and fuck yourself, cause that's probably all you got.

Jamshid, I have BAD news for you!

You seem to have difficulty with majority's vote. When people elect someone or a system of governance, that is their choice and by any DEMOCRATIC principle their choice should be respected. YOU and the like of YOU (such as the writer of the original article) seem to have difficulty to understand that concept. If Iranians chose Mossadegh, that is their choice and should have been respected. If they voted for Ayatollahs and mollahs that is their choice too. If Lebanese vote for Hezbollah, that is their democtratic choice.. If Palestinians elect Hamas, that is their democratic choice as well.  YOU may not like their choices, but hey lets face it, you are in MINORITY. You must learn to respect majority's decision in these elections. Of course if you still have difficulty with the concept of "majority rules", that is fine. You are not alone in that club. I hear "W" who is known to be the most stupid president USA has had, is also in the same club! You are in good company. Welcome..

Al

We are taking responsibilites and doing something about it....

It's called a massive bombing
campaign against the command, control, and communications (C3) assets
of the Islamic Republic of Mullahs including the complete annihilation of the
IRGCs, their bases, their terrorists camps, mullahs, their supporters, and
whoever is going to stand on the way.

The military assault will not be
against the regular Iranian Army. The regular Iranian Armed Forces (IAF) or whatever
has left of them is part of Iran
and NOT the Islamic Republic! We all know how (IAF) members were brutally massacred
by the criminal mullahs, Mujahedeen, and their communist collaborators! Iranians
will never forget nor forgive those who committed those crimes, never, ever!?

You are full of contradictions…

Just read your mambo jumbo. You are an idiot. That’s the problem
with Iran,
too many or you are around. BTW, I don’t know German!

If Reza Pahlavi's father stole so much money as allegedly
stated to be of Billions of dollars, then why in the world would his son, Reza,
want more of it to the point that he would meddle around with the Rafsanjani
not get elected.

Dear Tsinoizita:

Your IQ = limit exp (-X) as X approaches infinity. In case
you can’t figure it out, it’s equal to cipher!?

Now go, chock your chicken!

Jamshid, I love you man....

You said it so eloquently. This is the story of many
Iranians in their 40’s. I was there myself during 1978-79 where these an_
tellectual followers of Mosadeq and Jebhe Melli garbage gave legitimacy to
the criminal Khomeini and his criminal gang. These Mosadeqi/Jebhe Melli misguided
traitors are the very core of the problem Iran has been facing for the past
50 years. And these sob’s have the audacity to blame the rest of the world for
their incompetent and bankrupt ideology. These are the people who want to eat
out of the Tubreh and Akhoor at the same time!?

Shalom.

Bomb our country and start from the ashes?  That's equivalent to planting the seeds of another revolution to take place in 50 years.  Communists this!  You are the shyster brainwashed.  When a leader wants his country, the provider of probably the world's most valuable resource, oil, to get more for it ... that makes him a communist?  When a leader would like to create opportunities for the poor, that makes him a communist?  Your frickin Reza Pahlavi did a 3 day hunger strike ... for what????  Promise you that that muthafvcka was paid by the shyster Bush to do that.  His so called brave act came back to haunt us.  I'm not a mullah fan, but if Pahlavi hadn't pursuaded so many not to vote, we may have had Rafsanjani in there.  At least, he can get swayed with some money that the US or European countries would throw at him ... lets see ... oh yeah, similar to what that Shahi boy was doing.  I'm no supporter of the mullahs, never have been ... but I also don't want to make the same mistake we made in 79 and bring in just another f*cked up govt dividing Iran even more.  So take your hemorrhoids crap and shove it up your shsyter hairy a*s.  Raus.  Geh und du muss nicht zuruck kommen.

Praise the Lord!

I agree.  Lets move on and try to find a solution!

Are you serious?

Throwing out 'camel' name calling to other Iranians?  You gotta be kidding me!  That's why our nation is f*cked up.  We can't even get along among ourselves.  We got the jews hanging out only with the jews.  We got the lighter skinned ones always calling the darker ones (a lot of whom are the Jews) Indians or camel this and camel that.  We got the educated laughing at the ones selling cars or waiting tables.  We got inter-family entangles and name calling.  We can't even maintain a true network of Iranians to help each other get to the top in a foreign country.  That's why our country has been f*cked up for yrs!  We literally don't know how to behave.  the blame game continues, alive and well!

Dear Tsinoizitna...

You seem to be a very angry person. If you don't start using
some anger control, your hemorrhoids will explode on your face. Calm done and
take deep breaths of oxygen to help you think straight.

Mosadeq, the cliché premier, was infested with communists all
around him and thank God for America
and President Eisenhower to help Iran NOT to become another Albania, a
model country the ignorant Iranian leftists used to tout!

Very soon, following a massive campaign of bombing of the Islamic
Republic of Mullahs, the IRGCs, their supporters, and their infrastructure, we
will be able to rebuild Iran
from the ashes.

Very well put!

Agree with you 100% ... playing the blame game .. the most counter productive way of addressing a probem.

Hillarious

You participated in the revolution and you now blame the messnegers?  Why did you believe them?  Did they brainwash you?  Or use some crazy drug on you?  I assume you must have experienced or seen somthing related to the oppression that Shah brought onto many!  I agree with you that our nation is in the worst shape, but if we had forced the oppressed to "crawl in a hole" ... they'd be pushing their way out at some point later, more fiercely.  So the reason for which we revolted is not a bad one, the follow-through, or the solution that we put in place after the revolution is a problem.  Nowadays, the last thing we need is more division among us.  I think over 80 or 90% of us realize that this govt of Iran is not a good one, but what good would more blaming do?  What good would crying about the past do?  Do you have a solution?  I do, we gotta come up with a UNIFIED message for change and inject it further into Iran.  If there was an uprising right now, it would end up worse than what iraq is experiencing and the US and its shyster boy know this well.  Stability is the last thing the US wants there.  If the region is stablized, there's no reason for US forces to stay there.  US and its shyster brotha have awaken all various political and religious groups, all ethnicities, and all classes in Iran.  Actually, using that shyster boy's argument, with so many groups clashing, do you think a US-led change in Iran would be best?  I don't.  That's why I think that us Iranians, us Persians, should UNIFY our message first, and then move forward to make a change.  Blaming this group and that group for the results of the revolution (while YOU yourself was part of the groups!) is not the best approach to solving this shyster problem.

You are just another Republican fooled!

First off, based on your illogical argument, it is clear that you are a NEOCON and not a true Republican.  Also, it is clear that you feel proud participating in the stupid, but yet simple, black or white, or Republican or Democrat name calling. 

Now back to the issue at hand ... did you really forgot about the coup led by the CIA?  Do you think that was just forgotten about during the revolution, and everyone was revolting mainly due to Carter's actions?  And I am curious to know if what you're saying is correct, then why did the revolution (at that time) have support from almost every segment of our population - the rich, the poor, the religious, the non religious, etc.?  Of course, it turns out that the revolution didn't work, and I'll admit that ... but I think its pretty misguided of you to use your 20/20 hindsight (which is helluvan advantage you've got!) and try to link the failure to Carter's actions at the time ... which by the way, are similar to what this neocon brainwashed Bushie has been using to support his neocon war - human rights, democracies, etc, etc.

And I love the fact that you attribute Saddam's rise to power and his killing of many of our country men to Carter!  Where did he get those chemical weapons that you talked about?  Who did push him to invade?  Get your head out of your a*s.

Also, appears that your argument supports a utilitarian belief - where if it costs the freedom of the un-privileged, if it costs us shutting them up, if it costs the lives, the futures of the ones that we already assume won't make it out of poverty, if it costs the lives of the 'dahatees', BUT at the same time improves (or creates more luxury) for the rest of us, the privileged, the educated, etc .... then its worth it.  Its worth it to torture those people and silence them, its worth it to ignore them.  Unfortunately, the revolution showed that such policy will not work.  History has proven that the oppressed ones will always (whether right away or 50-100 yrs later) will always revolt and seek their freedom ... which then costs EVERYONE a lot more.  You, supposedly a politician, should know that you have to at least appear that you are listening to every voice.  The shyster puppet, Shah, couldn't even do that.  And this extremist govt that we have isn't better ... but less oppression by the shah may have avoided this from happening. 

Its hillarious seeing us Iranians get tangled in US' political jibberish and just like the US shysters, start blaming everyone else for the stuff for which, we, ourselves, are responsible.  What's funnier is seeing you lister as a Republican leader!  haaaa.  Another brainwashed post-2000 Republican.  Obviously, either you are a neocon, or are another victim of the neocon shyster crap.  What we have had in the white house for the past 7 yrs is NOT a Republican administration.  What we have done has been completely non-Republican ... however has been completely neocon style.  Neocons, those boys that grew up or  started spewing their BS right in my back yard.  Former communists, former socialists, and a bunch of lying phony people that mold their 'exterior' political beliefs to beliefs of the leading party at the time.  They've been doing that for yrs.  And have been on the democrat side until Republicans took control of Congress in the 90s.  FYI, I am a true Republican and certainly not brainwashed like Bushie, McCain and Romney.  Guiliani was literally born a neocon.  At least we have Ron Paul who actually has balls to come out and tell the truth.  Honestly, I think the one politician that resembles Bushie the most, in terms of how the politician will get swayed from one side to the other, and by whom ... is Hillary Clinton, the truest, true neocon a*s-kissing and brainwashed politician in the US.

Now go on Mr. Iranian-American Republican ... go on ... you are doing a great job in distributing good info and thinking to your fellow Iranians.  Can't wait to see your next story.  But as the Germans say ... Geh Raus!

Come on now, the revolution

Come on now, the revolution was Jebhe Melli's fault? What else??

Not sure if you remember, but the main figures of Jebhe Melli at that point were Shapour Bakhtiar, Mehdi Bazargan and Karim Sanjabi. They had a signed pact not to budge to the "Islamic" aspect of the rebellion. Of the three, Sanjabi already budged while Khomeiny was in Paris, Bazargan became the interim Prime Minister after 22 Bahman, and Bakhtiar warned everyone of the consequences of what would happen, remaining true to the constitution of 1906 until the last minute. He was correct to the word about today 28 years ago. Even if you were part of the Jebhe Melli back then, it was up to you to choose your path. I see too many people playing the blame game here on these new commentary boards. Why doesn't anyone say "khodam kardam ke la'nat bar khodam baad"?

Assume some responsibility please... That could be a first step.

Betraying Iran using Mosadegh's name...

First of all that's "coup d'etat", not coup-de-ta. Second, the same can be said about Mossadegh remaining in power with the support of Tudeh and USSR.

It was NOT the Shah who damaged Iran, he only made Iran a better place to live for everyone. It was YOU, and if not you, your Mosadeghi gang who damaged Iran by joining force with Khomieni and by deceiving fools like me into buying the crap you are saying about the Shah.

You and the rest of your Mosadeghi gang packaged Khomeini as a emam, and Mosadegh as a saint, and the shah as an "absolute" villain, and dragged fools like me into the street to chant "death to the shah".  And so we did. Not once, not twice, for more times that I can remember we heeded the Mosadeghi gang, and poured into the streets to demonstrate against the shah.

Khomeini became credible to me and half of the Iranians, only because the Mosadeghi gang and jebhey melli approved of him and promoted him fevereshly, otherwise I and most other none-Islamists and none-leftists would have never joined the revolution and participate in the demonstrations like idiots.

If your likes and the Mosadeghi gang would have just crawled into a hole and stayed there in 1978, instead of promoting khomeini, Iran would not have fallen to the Islamists, and it would have been a much better place today.

So stop being از خود متشکر , your crap about 28 Mordad doesn't have any buyers anymore except among your own gang.

You and your Mosadeghi gang DO NOT represent Mosadegh. Your gang have used Mosadegh's good image for decades to give themselves a righteous face in order to make the masses believe in their none-sense crap easier. It worked once, but sorry, it doesn't work anymore.

Jamshid

You are so full of it, your eyes are turning brown...!?

So, what do you call these clips... Love of Amrica and 60 minutes for the Shah?

1) //www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQgZ3oLp_WY

2) //www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8u2UKWCHtM

3)ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOBxcXpD4Co&mode=related&search=

4)//www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKYlvyZwHHU&mode=related&search=

5)//www.youtube.com/watch?v=N95jAvKliJU&mode=related&search=

So all of these clips indicate positive PR in support of the Shah.

You are welcome...

and let the testimony on the youtube clip be a
reminder to all of the apologists of the Islamic Republic Regime of Mullahs the
fate that will be awaiting them. This also applies to peculiar characters such as “Q”
and others.

Damnation

May god damn all those who deceived idiots like me into thinking that the Shah was a traitor.

Good links, keep them coming.

Jamshid

Thank you Ghool!

I did watch the link that you included in your comments ( //www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR0YpU8im6g  ), I could not understand every word the video was saying, because the sound of my laughter wouldn't let me. I had to watch it a few times. That was the MOST funny thing I have heard in eons.

I strongly recommend the "bacheh mullahs" in this site to listen to it too. It may remind them of their own youth.

Jamshid

Thanks Mr. Ghool

It was funny, though, I've never heard the vermin for real either. 

Puffali khan

Dear Mr. Puffali: I can't believe you are making me defend the late shah whom I have no respect for. Please read the book "A century of war" which was writtena  decade before Carter's so called anti-semitic book came out. And if you still feel the same, then we can talk via another forum. I wish it weren't true because I love Carter's work with habitat for humanity and I'm a volunteer for that org.

 Like I said before, we're all entitled to our opinions but not facts. Thanks.