BOOK

No, it's straight out of my HP desktop

Dariush,

I am not familiar with David Harowitz (although I believe the correct spelling would be HOROWITZ) or his writings.

The fact that you feel compelled to qualify your statement with, ("I am not against either....") proves that you are in fact bigoted. That you do so with an emphasis on placing that portion of the statement in parentheses, so as to not contaminate or dilute the rest of your statement only shows how deep seated your bigotry actually is.

Fact is, you harbor an intense dislike or even hate for Jews and Baha'is, and you have been programmed to believe that they are inferior to you. But, hey, that's quite alright, because I am certain that there are many of them who feel the same way about you.

The first thing a hater of Jews like you do is equate Judaism with Zionism, calling Jews or people who don't share your feelings towards Jews Zionists. You operate from the "How To Hate a Jew" handbook, page for page, and cliche for cliche. There are Jews in the world who couldn't find Jerusalem on a map or Tel Aviv if they were in it, and think Hebrew is the first name of a hot dog vendor. But you immediately think they are an Israeli or a Zionist.

As far as your attitude towards Baha'is, I simply don't get it. You immediately adopt some kind of superiority complex.

Honestly, who gives a damn how anyone prays? They're not praying to YOU are they? They are praying to GOD. Remember HIM? Do you think GOD needs help? And if He did, what on earth do you have on your resume that makes you think YOU are the one He will turn to and hire as an assistant?

Dariush, get off your high horse, or shotor, or khar, or whatever the hell you have perched yourself upon. Yes, Israel simply want to be left alone. Your IRI heroes want to be left alone with no outsiders meddling, don't they? Does that mean no one else is entitled to want the same? Or is it that the people who live in Israel, who happen to be Jewish, aren't entitled?

Stop kissing up to a population that was abandoned by their own. India and Pakistan are killing each other over Kashmir, but I don't hear you mentioning that at all. Maybe because there aren't any Jews.

I will type this part slowly because I know you don't read that fast:

Once again, this is NOT about governments, either in Israel or Iran, or anywhere else. This is about the people that are supposed to be served by those governments, who have only served to be a disservice in one way or another.

To answer your statement on how Israel came about, I will give you a homework assignment: SHOW ME ONE COUNTRY THAT HAS COME INTO EXISTENCE WITHOUT VIOLENCE OR WAR AS A PART OF IT.

Both Arabs and Jews are

Both Arabs and Jews are semitic and their language is semitic.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic

In fact jews and Arabs are cousins.

Conflict between the two sons of Abraham began from the very start. Genesis 21:9 says the conflict began just after Isaac was weaned: "Now Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne to Abraham, mocking."

Galatians 4 tells us that Ishmael had been "born according to the flesh" while Isaac had been "born according to the promise". Isaac replaced Ishmael as the favored son and heir. This, of course, made Ishmael jealous and bitter. As a result, he mocked and disdained his half-brother. Eventually the situation became so intolerable that Abraham's wife Sarah demanded that Ishmael and his Egyptian concubine mother, Hagar, be expelled permanently from Abraham’s family. Descendants of Ishmael became muslims. and descendants of Isaac became Jews.

 //www.therefinersfire.org/ishmael_and_isaac.htm

However, Iranians are not semitic and different from both Jews and Arabs both in language, genetics and culture.

Well, I'm not kidding

No, you cannot only be Jewish by birth. You can convert, just like you can convert to any other religion, whether it be Catholicism, Buddhism, or Islam.  Besides, in the big picture, what's the difference? Religion has become like having an insurance policy with an agent. Do you really need an intermediary, be it a priest, a rabbi, or mollah? You want to talk with God? Go ahead. We don't need a middleman. Especially when they are even more flawed than we are.

As far as race vs. religion, get a room with a white guy, a black guy, and an Asian, for example. They all can be the same religion. They can all be the same nationality. But they are not all the same race. Their DNA has nothing in common. The notion of the comparisons you refer to stems more from cultural and social similarities than anything else. Certainly not similarities in government.

Peace to you too!!

Are you serious!?!

There seems to be a systematic approach in current discussions to portray the notion of Iranians being similar to Israelis and different than Arabs. There seems to be some orchestrated effort to do some fishing in dirty waters. This used to be called "divide and conquer", an old but effective tool of England. Currently it's being pursued under the name of "Diplomacy", since the war efforts are not going well.

There's a mention of the fact that "Jewish people are looked upon as a race". Well, maybe it's a perception that is more close to reality because of the actions of state of Israel. Whether you want it or not, Israel represent Jewish people and I parallel the actions of state of Israel with South African Apartheid than the culturally paralleling Jewish people with Iranian people. I hope I'm not making mistake, but I hear that you can only be born Jewish.Well That is not true with Catholics, Moslems or any other sect.

we humans need to pursue freedom, Liberty and Justice for all mankind equally without dividing humans based on any attributes that are allowed within human race irrespective of sex, religion....... 

Peace!

straight out of David Harowitz book

Kaveh,

Your reply was almost word by word plagarized out of David Harowitz's book "A Case for Israel."

Are you a Jew or a Baha'i (I am not against either, but I'm curious what drives you to be so strong of a zionist)? Even monarchists don't defend Israel so staunchly that you just did. The sentence "All Israel wants is to be left alone" is blatantly ignorant and sheer propoganda. You are making a statement that Israel has never fought wars for greater land or for control over more water supplies. That Israel just wants to live its life, which is ignorant of its history and how it came about. It is like saying their is not a single Jewish terrorist (yes, Jews have blown up buses with Arab civilians in them, have you forgotton the 30's, 40's and 80's?)

No wonder you fight me so much and use tactics that I've only found Zionists use when making arguments. YOU HAVE BEEN EXPOSED.

Palestine was not an

Palestine was not an official state but
neither was Israel!
All were part of ottoman empire which failed and later was in hands of British.
It was the Jews who migrated from eastern Europe and through several managed violence
and what is referred today as terrorism, were able to win the land. They
continued their journey and to this day they are expanding their country by
building settlements while sending off Palestinians to camps.

Iranians never did and would never do this! You can think you are closer to Israelis but I for one, along with millions of other Iranians disagree with Israel's treatment of Palestinians and would never want to be compared ot them!

Well I am sure we could

Well I am sure we could find similarities or differences amongst all nations of the world depending on what we were looking for or wanted to prove. So this comparison amongst Iranians and Israelis is not really unique.


I personally do not have anything against Jews or Arabs. But I am very much against most Arab governments for oppressing their own people (I do not think I need to give you an example just pick any Arab country in the region) and against the Israeli government for treating millions of Palestinians so unfairly and heavy-handedly. The peace that the Israelis want is such that all of it's terms are dictated by Israel and the other party, the stone throwing one, has no choice but to accept what is offered by the Israelis which is not much. So they can call themselves peace-loving and others as war mongers for not accepting their peace efforts.

As for Israel not having occupied any land well what can I say? If a country called Palestine did not exist, does that give Israel the right to occupy lands that belonged to someone else? Those lands did not belong to Israel either and even the UN recognizes Israel as an occupational force in Gaza and the West bank. How about Golan heights? How about Sinai desert? How about Lebanon? Oh sorry attacking Lebanon and it's occupation was self-defense. Israeli special forces were going to raid Hizbollah positions inside Lebanon but the Hizbollah beat them to it and in the process captured a couple of Israeli soldiers. And That was the reason for destroying a mostly defenseless nation. I am not defending Hizbollah, on the contrary, I hate what they represent, but isn't war about soldiers killing and getting killed or captured? How come Israel in the name of war against terror has the right to arrest and imprison, torture and kill as many Arabs as they like but the opposing party does not have the right to do the same? How come Israeli jets have the right to bombard Lebanon into stone age, mostly hitting residential areas of Beirut and other cities which haven't the slightest military value, but they warn the Lebanese army not to shoot at their bombing planes? And tell me what kind of an army refrains from shooting enemy planes down? The same planes that killed over 1000 Lebanese and almost destroyed the country.

You talk about Iraqis killing each other with the help of IRI, that is probably right but whose fault is that? Who caused this mess in the first place? Why do you forget to mention the fact that against the advice of most governments in the world and despite millions of people opposing the war on Iraq, the Americans went ahead with their plans and look at the results. What do you expect the akhunds in Iran to do? Sit still and let the Americans tighten the noose around their neck? Of course they are going to make it as difficult for the Americans as possible. As much as I dislike the Islamic regime in Iran, but they see the situation in Iraq as a gift. As long as the Americans are bugged down in Iraq they are almost free to do whatever they want. And when they acquire the knowledge to produce nuclear arsenal, they can't be touched any more.

But I believe Israeli government, in their treatment of Arabs, and the Islamic regime in they way they treat their own people in Iran have hell of a lot in common.

I am sorry for digressing but I thought I throw in my 2 cents worth. But seriously people all over the world regardless of race, colour, religion or nationality are basically the same. They want the same things in life. So it is not that hard to find similarities amongst them.

There's a double standard

Culturally speaking, Iranians have more in common with Israelis. Let me VERY clear on this. I am referring to people, not governments.

Both Iranians and Israelis share a highly placed value upon education and knowledge, as well as ambition and a drive to succeed. The ambition and drive for success is based on a desire to support the family and ensure their security, especially that of the children and their future, rather than the steretypical notion of greed, money lust and materialism, which is found in EVERY culture.

Over time, Jewish people have been looked upon as a race, rather than what they truly are, which is followers of Judaism. To call Jews a race is the same as claiming there is Catholic race, Baptist race, or Moslem race, all of which we know to be ludicrous, as there are peole of all of these faiths from all over this planet, some with skin so light they need sunblock at night, to people with skin that is darker than Godiva chocolate.

To address your statement in detail, let's run it down:

1. No, we have never taken over another country, but neither did Israel. There has never been a sovereign nation called Palestine. The British and the French controlled that land previously.

2. Where a country gets its name from is insignificant unless you have a history exam in school tomorrow morning.

3. In addition to the government, there are many Iranians who feel they are indeed superior to other Iranians based upon religion. There are people like that everywhere. So-called religious superiority was the basis of Hitler's Final Solution and the Holocaust.

4. Nobody likes war, unless they are plain psycho. Israelis don't want war, and neither do the majority of Arabs. However, a troublemaking minority who are hell bent on inciting anarchy continue to threaten not only Israelis, but everyone else, including their own. Iraqis are killing each other with the IRIs help. Hezbollah is killing Israelis with the IRI's help. The IRI is killing Iranian children.  All Israel wants is to be left alone.

Your last paragraph is further proof of your self-perceived superiority.

Do you know the real difference between Israelis and Iranians? The fact that Israelis, and Jews in general, have each other's back, so to speak, because they know no one else does, whereas Iranians will sooner stab each other in the back.

I Disagree!

Ok you found some similarities...no big deal! There are many common things
in each race and culture but let me tell you HUGE differences between Persians
and Israelis without writing a whole long article:

1. Iranians have always been Iranians. We never took over another country
and wiping out their entire population, culture. Iran
has always been Iran and
will always be Iran.

2. Iran,
despite being a Muslim vastly, is based on its heritage not a religion. Israel on the
other hand is based on Judaism and that is where it gets its name from.

3. Historically, Iran
and Iranians don't limit other Iranians based on their race or culture or their
religions. All are Iranian, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Zoroastrians, Bahais.
True current government doesn’t think that way but historically Iranians have
been fair minded nation. As opposed to Israel and Israelis who are mostly Jews
who believe they are the chosen ones and better than non Jews and they have
better social statues.

4. Iran and Iranian people
don't like war whereas Israel
and Israelis love and push for every war. Since the country was formed, it has
been in many war and please don't tell me it was for self defense. It was
mainly for pursuit of greater land power in the region!

5. Iranians generally don't believe they are superior to any race. They
don't hate Arabs, at least not as much as Jews and Israeli's do! Please don't
forget that a good portion of Iranians are Arabs in southern Iran and don't
forget majority have Iranians have great respect for prophets and founders of
Islam whom all are Arabs!

6. Iranians never go in streets supporting unjust wars, killing
innocent people. I still remember during Iran-Iraq war, many people were
opposing Iran's
relation against Iraqi cities because sadam was targeting Iranians cities.
There was a lot of pressure on government not to do the same. In gulf war of
1990, Iranians accepted Iraqi refugees with open arms. You will never see
such gestures from Israelis.

I believe, truly, your comparison is flawed as Iranians are much more noble
than Israelis which is why Iran
means land of nobles.