EXPERIMENTAL

Penis problem

Thank you Mahasti. Good points.

The following is not in direct response to your comments, just general observations from all the reactions.

I think it's interesting how the photo of a nude man has become such an issue. I wonder if it would have gotten the same reaction if it was a standing nude woman. I doubt it.

To be fair with Hadi, he didn't pick the photo. I did. I thought it was more fitting for this story. Is the photo and story unusual and provocative. Of course. Is it wrong to have them on a site that publishes works of literature and art? I don't think so.

The penis is not the prettiest thing in the world and a nude man will never be as attractive as a nude woman, but come on... that's how a man looks without clothes. Simple as that. Looking at him and reading the story will not scar anyone emotionally or otherwise.

As for Mr. Khejalat(i): Be absolutely sure of it. There will be other features on iranian.com like this. In this day and age, I don't consider it shameful -- or courageous for that matter. iranian.com is not for children. And as adults, if we can't look at a nude man simply standing, or read a story about a sexual dream or fantasy, well, maybe we should grow up.

هر سخن جایی و هر گفته مکانی دارد

سلام هادی،

چند نکته در مورد این مطلب: با آقای بالایی موفقم که این مطلب را باید در
بخش خاصی در سایت گذاشت چون هر چیزی جایی دارد و به خصوص آن عکس لخت در یک سایت همگانی کمی غیرعادی به نظر می رسد.

در مورد زبان داستان، چون داری فضای فساد و روسپیخانه را شرح می دهی که
نمادی است از فساد سیاسی، نه به عنوان نویسنده، که خودش کلمات خود را
انتخاب می کند و از هفت دولت آزاد است بلکه از زبان آدمهایت می توانی از
کلمات عریان تری استفاده کنی و از آن سه کاف مشهور و مسئله زا استفاده
کنی. زبان عریان روسپیخانه که در ضمن زبان مردانه و جنسی ای است در اینجا
مجاز است.

البته در این سالها به خوبی متوجه شده ایم که به کار بردن سه
کاف و زبان لمپنی نشان شجاعت نیست و در هیچ کجای دنیا مردم با فلانشان خرف
نمی زنند و این بحث انحرافی نمایانگر آزادی بیان نیست چون همین افراد لمپن
و به قول خودشان تابو شکن به موقعش سرشان را لای دمب مبارکشان می گذارند و
در برابر اسرار مگوی پشت صحنه و برای حفظ منافع خود، به کل لال می شوند.

در ضمن به جای استفاده از کلمه "عشقبازی" که به قول خودت نه "عشق" در
آن موجود است و نه "بازی" از یک کلمه دیگر استفاده کن! روسپی و مشتری
قدیمی چه واژه ای به کار می برند؟ برو بپرس!

البته همانطور که گفته ای فضای سیاسی پر است از روسپی و تن فروش و
پیرمردانی که دیگر آلتشان بلند نمی شود ولی ادایش را درمی آورند که هنوز
قدرقلدر و توانایند و به نمایش قدرت و توانایی مشغول اند را به شکلی نمادین نشان داده ای و توانسته ای منظورت را
برسانی ولی به نظرم بهتر از این هم می توانی. 

Mr JJ

You are blindly trying to imitate an immoral behavior and want to be a so called an open minded person or whatever. This is an Iranian site and too many people visit this site that see absolutely no value in this type of subject. Please be considerate and try not to impose your opinion and beliefs on everyone else. They do that in societies with totalitarian system like the one we all ran away from. Even in this land they segregate subjects like this. I have no problem with this types of articles but at least have it in a separate section. May be it is time to create one and for those that are interested they can clip on its tab.

Big world

I'm glad there's a world beyond Iran where wonderful works of literature get published without being banned and censored for being "mobtazal".

BTW

I don't remember having read Sagan's story in French, but both Sartre and Simon de Bauvoir (as long as I remember) always referred to the sexual organs as "sex"....this is also very common in the daily conversation.

In Sartre books, you often see the terms like " She grabbed his sex" ....or "While he was touching her sex".....etc.

They are great writer and the Aces in literature, they are not the anatomy professional :D))

When ?

When is our literature going to catch up to the rest of the world when it comes to sexuality?

When ?

- The day that the word " ebtezaal" will be replaced by the word "Normal"

Tohi gah!

"Tohi gah" or "aalat" or even "chizak"?! These are all words used because of a) censorship , b) self-censorship. What did Francoise Sagan and Sartre use in their own language? "Empty space", "tool" and "thingie"?

In the greatest works of world literature in English, Spanish, French, Japanese, etc), they have words as simple as penis and vagina, or even cock and pussy. Why can't we use the Persian version of those in our novels?

Here's a sex scene in an Iranian novel: "Oo chizakash raa vaarede tohigaham kard!" Excellent!

When is our literature going to catch up to the rest of the world when it comes to sexuality?

Sorry to break it to you

When I was very young (12 to 16) I was used to read Francoise Sagan and Sartre and some other great ecrivan (writers) who often wrote about the sex scenes. In those books, translated by the talented translators and writers, the sex organ was never called in their brute name as you are suggesting now.

They usually called it "tohi gah" or "aalat" or even "chizak"....etc.

That  way the literature aspect of the novel was always preserved at its best value. The reader wouldn't get shock or offended by the brute and vulgar names. I believe even in our usual conversation we don't use those term to cite a sexual organ.

I agree with A.Rajab that the hard words are usually used as insult therefore they won't sound beautiful in a written sketch.

So those words, you mentioned, are not necessarily the best ones to be used in a nice written story.

این واقعا چرند

این واقعا چرند به نظر من می‌رسد. بنظر می‌رسد یک ترجمه از یک چرند خارجی‌ (قدیمی‌) باشد که به یک کلاغ چهل کلاغ تبدیل شده!

در ضمن در مورد کیر و کس من یادم میاد زمان شاه تو خیابان پهلوی کلی‌ از این کتاب فروشیهای کنار پیاده رو کتابهای راجع به سکس و معلومات سکسی‌ و غیر ذالک میفروختند.

راجع به کس و کیر می‌شه حرف زد فقط بسته به نویسندست. اگر قرار باشه فقط برای ذکرش باشه که خوب تسبیح بندازید! باید یک موضوع، داستانی، طنزی، چیزی باشد که بشه بخوره. مگه امریکیها چپ و راست دیک و پوسی‌ میگن؟ یا به عنوان فحش استفاده می‌کنن یا تو پورنو شعار میدن! ما هم وقتی‌ فحش میدیم مثل راحت حلقوم کیر و کس میگیم!

تو این داستان همون شرمگاه و دست خر بهتره، به "داستان" بهتر میخوره! آبروی کیر و کس میرفت اگر از اونها استفاده میکرد!

Please submit to Golestan Academy of Literature

معاون اجتماعي فرماندهي انتظامي گلستان اعلام كرد: در بحث مبارزه با مفاسد اجتماعي، 70 نفر طي هفته گذشته در سطح استان دستگير شدند.

Genital parts

I was going to mention the same as Aida but chickened out. I am not sure if Hadi is trying to make a point by avoiding the words "kos" and "kir" or if believes (like many others) that "sharmgah" and "dasteh khar" are more appropriate.

In any case, we do have a problem describing genital parts in Persian. "Kir" and "kos" are considered offensive and yet we do not have other words to use in an artistic/literary setting. See Nazli Kamvari's thoughts on this subject:
//iranian.com/main/2008-355

My own feeling is that eventually, if we are going to have a form of literature that is honest and real, we need to get comfortable with "kos" and "kir". I don't think we are going to be able to invent anything that can describe them any "better". That's what we call them in real life. That's how they should be called in a story. No shame in that.

As for Afsheen's comment, a story or a written sketch does not need to have a point necessarily. Is there a point in an abstract painting of nude bodies by Picasso or any other artist? It's just a form of expression.

شرمگاه؟؟؟؟

شرمگاه وجود ندارد. اسمش "کس " است. نه مایه شرم است و نه محل شرمساری. شما که توان بی پروا نویسی را دارید بجای " شرمگاه " بگویید "کس " بجای " دسته خر " بگویید "کیر"

and the point of the story

and the point of the story is?