IRAN-ISRAEL

no FT I did not talk about NIAC!

Mr. FT, I stand by my statement that, "The work of people such as Trita, Nasr, Sahimi, ...."
as you can see I have used people's names, I have no references to NIAC.
I made that statement regarding Mr. Parsi's articles such as the one above which are attempts to promote understanding between Iran/Iranians and Israel/Israelis.
Similar to many others that have posted below, I may not agree with all the details of this article but I definitely agree with the main objective of this article.
I believe isolating Iran is not good for Iran, Israel or U.S in anyway.

So you don't talk about NIAC?!

Anonymous7,

When you say:

"The work of people such as Trita, Nasr, Sahimi, .... may be in vain, but what is wrong with them trying?"

Trita Parsi is not working for himself alone but is doing it as the president of NIAC! You keep forgetting what you wrote earliers on.

So, you are saying that the people of Iran have no problem with absence of freedom in their lives and they prefer to have their inflation reduced and their leaders being clean! How are you proposing these needs to be achieved? By democratic means I hope. But how can democratic proceses function without basic freedoms being in place? Is this my imagination that there are no basic freedoms Iran? Free press, free elections, free speech, right of gathering, right to from free parties, even the right to wear what you want and the right to be with who you want (opposite sex) without having to mary each other. Are these my imaginations? Are you seriously suggesting that because you traveled to Iran recently, you are in touch with the people of Iran?!!! The laws of statistics seem sto have been bent :-)

If there is no need for freedom in Iran, why then a modest gathering of students protesting to their leaders corruption is attacked by the hezbollahhis and the regime police? Sure there may be Iranians who have no concern over the lack basic freedoms because they do not understand or have forgotten what freedom means. Perhaps they are part of the ruling regime in that case they enjoy the freedom that others do not.

I really find it amusing that we are debating such a basic issue. What you are saying is no different from what the regime propaganda machine is saying! Do they say anything different?

the article versus your post! (to FT)

Ft says: "We the people of Iran are suffering from lack of freedom"

FT, Trita and Ben have written an article which is mainly focused on a foreign policy issue namely promoting more understanding between Iran/Iranians and Israel/Israelis. You go off topic which is fine but I and several others have expressed disagreement with your baseless claims (that there are no lobbies in the U.S! etc).
I did not have any references to NIAC in my posts below. However I sail that you are out of touch with realities in Iran and you are IMAGINING that all Iranians think like you, by saying "We the people of Iran ...".

Discussion Whose Time Has Past

I discuss the Parsi/Ben Yehuda Haaretz article on Ethnic Ashkenazim Against Zionist Israel in the entry Participating in an Obsolete Discourse.

Reality as defined by NIAC?!!

Anonymous7,

Clearly we are not talking in the same language because if we did, you wouldn't have repeated the same dubious suggestion in your last comment. I am going to spell it out using he same anology and in simple and unambigious terms.

Here we have a patient (nation of Iran) who is suffering from a cancer (the anti-Islamic regime) which has been with this patient for now thirty years without being cured. The patient is severly weak and in dire health. Secondary effects of the disease are taking their tolls (inflation and corruption). Now you are telling us that according to your sources (taxi drivers or a few students (?) - I don't know which students you met but here is a sample of students protests which was met by violence - no freedom I presume!!)

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgLrbVsY_Po&feature...

All these apart, are you saying that by a just talking to a few family and friends you have got the pulse of the nation in your hand? I did suggest to widen the scope of your sample, didn't I?

All these apart, what can NIAC or Parsi do to address inflation and corruption in Iran? Please explain.

the reality and your reality!? (to FT)

FT, you did not get my point. You claimed that "We the people of Iran are suffering from lack of freedom", and my point was/is that I did not see such a claim by the "Iranian people".
The priorities for Iranians at least at this point does not match your priorities, they are more concerned about lack of affordable housing than "lack of freedom", lack fruit that they can buy than "lack of freedom" ...

Ms Jaleh and other respondents

Let me thank you for your replys regardless of their contents.

Jaleh,

You are much more insightful than I had imagined and I thank you for your civil discourse. I am not inherently opposed to NIAC. I only believe that they are barking at the wrong tree. I shall explain why at the end of this comment.

Anonymous7,

You have touched on the symptoms of the disease only and ignored the root cause of it. What you are saying is exactly like asking a patient who is suffering from cancer: what are your urgent needs? He/she would probably answer: I need pain killers to calm my pain or I need medicine to prevent infection of my wounds, etc. He must have resigned to his fate that his cancer is a normal state of his exixtance!! The truth is that while the cancer is growing and weakening the patient, there will be no end to pains and no end to indections. His symptoms may be periodically cured by pain killers and antibiotics but not permanently. The only cure is to surgically remove the canserous tumour.

If you are a resident of a western democracy, I am sure you have observed how the cases of corruption or inflation or other ills of the country are addressed: through FREE and DEMOCRATIC processes that exist in those countries. In the absence of such freedoms, and freedom of press, there are no solutions to any of these problems. And one last thing: Taxi drivers and students are not the best representatives of a complex and vibrant society that exist in Iran. Your survey needs a much wider scope.

Choghok,

You seem to read only those parts of my comments that suit your arguments and blank out the rest! My charge of "disconnection with realities" was not only directed at Trita Parsi but, as I have mentioned in my later comments at all those academics who think the problems of the world can be solved by publishing a new papers in a journal or giving a speech in a conference. Parsi's example served as a case in point. In fatc, if you think carefully most of the major crises in American foregin policies have their roots in academics becoming politicians or politcal advisers. From Henry Kissinger to Zbigniew Brzezinski to Garry Sick and down to Paul Wolfowiz and Condi Rice, all have brought one disaster after another to the American foreign image and politics. BYW, Mr Parsi's own superviser, Fukuyama is another such academic living in ivory towers and making big and pretentious claims like "the end of history" which he has lived to regret given the rise of the Islamic militancy around the world.

If you had read my further comments you would have seen the argument behind my charges. Obviously you choose to take them out of context!

Thank you free thinker

You raise important points and worries. I am sure NIAC would benefit listening to people like yourself. NIAC is a very young, and I still believe a very much needed organization.

NIAC will evolve and its proper evolution depends on discussion and suggestion such as yours.

Jaleh

Free thinker or No thinker?

It is sad to see people try to attack Mr Parsi personally instead of coming with arguments.

Reading "Free thinker" attacking Trita Parsi made me remember the mullahs newspapers attacking Christiane Amanpour using inuendos like she is Bahai and her father remarried an American. Or saying that Condoleeza Rice was dumped by her Iranian bf in college years and that is why she hates Iran. Really no class and no point what so ever with the allegations.

So what do we get from "all" this research "Free thinker" has done by reading Mr Parsis web site? Nothing much than Mr Parsi is a very educated person and is very much interested in bringing peace between his native country and USA and Israel.

He could have like many other young Iranians just studied to be an engineer, doctor or a lawyer and made tons of money with no care for Iran.

Why would "Free thinker" dislike Mr Parsi and try to ridicule him? Maybe he is jealous, may be he wants to be in Washington instead of Mr Parsi, who knows. 

I hope "Free thinker" and persons like him grow up nad put down their hostility and argument with reason instead of personal attacks.

I do not totally agree with Mr Parsis argument as I wrote in an earlier comment, but I do respect his experties in this field and proud of having him on our side in this crazy situation.

/Bidar bash ke ma bekhabim

Lobbies in the US

I cannot believe reading Free Thinker stating that US policies are not influenced by lobbies. The right to petition the government is one of the basis of the US system and that means lobbying. It is just amazing the amount of total ignorance of reality that is shown by some people. This is not a matter of ideology, it is simply reality. There are lobbies for all sorts of interests including: environment, energy, oil, animal rights and so on. I really think people should take a basic introductory course in American politics before they go off making statements. Dr Parsi is well within his rights to have a lobby. It is totally legal, ethical and American as it tries to influence the US through peaceful and legitimate means.

That does not mean that you should agree with it. But for the sake of your own credibility, at least get the facts right.

Right on Dr Parsi

Very good points here. As usual Dr Parsi is a voice of sanity among all those howling for more war. I hope NIAC continues its good work to bring peace between Iran and Israel. I never understood why IRI is so obsessed with Israel and vice versa. Both countires have bigger problems and should ignore nut cases who are gaming for a fight. Isreal does not need to be Iran's friend but at least lets not have it as an enemy. Right on Dr Parsi.

imagination versus reality (to FT, ... Jaleh)

Ft says: "We the people of Iran are suffering from lack of freedom"

FT, I was in Iran not too long ago, I found many people complaining about inflation and corruption, even people who hardly knew me (such as the taxi drivers). I didn't come across anyone who complained about "lack of freedom", even the very pro Bush university student activist I came across was complaining about Iran's isolation.
Mr. Free Thinker, you seem to have gotten carried away with "thinking" and entered into imagination realm, imagining that you are "Iranian people". You are even out of touch with realities of U.S politics thinking that American foreign policy is not influenced by lobbies! (Jaleh covered that nicely, so I say no more).
I find it interesting that you as a person in the very right and Jaleh a person in the very left have some imagination in common (although Jaleh is much less imaginative than you, and her last post was fairly good)
:-).
anyhow good night both of you!

Parsi: Lost in Translation

Jaleho,

You are effectively saying what I am saying but conversely! Let me explain. Here are parts of what you wrote in your post:

"Furthermore, I also believe that people like Parsi, or Vali Nasr have no real relevance to internal dynamics of Iran at all, they are too disconnected from the real stuff INSIDE Iran, nor frankly they even speak the same language that is required for the politics of inside Iran."

And further down: "The American side would most definitely listen to a person like Parsi than a lot of other Iranians that speak the language of INSIDE Iran!"

And this is precisely where the core of the problem lies. Academics like Parsi, Nasr, Amir Ahmadi, Massoud-Ansari, Sahimi, Aslan, etc. are as you have correctly said, completely disconnected with the inner goings of the regime in Iran. In otherwords, they know little or nothing in terms of the Realpolitik of Iranian regime. Oh, I am sure they are very articulate in presenting thier cases to their American audiences, after all this is what they have studied for years: talking theories and writing theories. But is the stuff they present to their audiences authentic and pragmatic - definitely NOT!

They are giving to their listeners what they LIKE to hear and NOT what they NEED to hear. Their political models based on what they have been taught in their courses is only good for the classrooms and no more. Oh, I am also sure that they know of the political processes within the Capitol Hill much better than the entire government of Ahmadinejad put together. BUT, this is NOT what the Americans NEED to know. These guys are doing exactly what a few generations before them people like, Ebrahim Yazdi, Bani Sadr, Ghotb Zadeh, Mostafa Chamran, Majid Tehranian, Shahin Fatemi and Abbas Milani used to do: painting a completely wrong image of what was going on INSIDE Iran. In the case of the former generation, they were painting a gloomy and inauthentic picture of Iran under the Shah, whereas in the case of the new generation they are painting an inauthentic and watered-down image of what the Islamic regime is doing or intends to do. Two different images, both distorted nonetheless.

Americans need to listen to the INSIDE message from Iran and not to the OUTSID message as concocted by Parsi and Co.

Thanks Abarmard

I always enjoy yours.

Jaleho

Great points. Thanks

Iran Is Good to Love and Cherish, but it is not IRI

Mr/Ms. Shiney Head:

There is no doubt that Iran has a glorious history, a humanitarian culture, a good, decent and intelligent people. We are proud of our country. Period.

The problem is that this regime in Iran is not representative of any of these good and decent aspects of Iranian society and culture. It has to go.

From 1979 to present, during the three decades that the "Velayi Regime" of a select bunch of mullahs has been in power, it has given us what we may consider as the Report Card of this regime. This report card has nothing to do with Iran, with our culture and our people.

This report cared leaves any one, with an ounce of brain or consience, no choice but to reach the inevitable conclusion that Khomeini and his regime never cared about Iran's national interests thus of Iranian people. Khomeini was the biggest enemy of Iran and his "Velayi Regime" under Ali Khamenehi remains as such.

The enemy is not an external foe; it is not the USA; it is not Isreal; it is not France; it is not Britain.

The enemy of Iran and our people is the IRI and its shady supporters who reside in the West, "pooh pooh" every thing good and decent about the Western civilization at the same time that they do what we call: "Shekar khori-ye ezafi"!!

We do have IRI lobbyist groups who are utilizing American Democracy to eat on a daily basis this type of "Shekar-e ezafi gholop gholop." Well, that is what is good about the "full-fledged vibrant democracy in USA."

Unlike the "vibrant-quasi-democracy" of the IRI that this political genious, Mr. Parsi, has coined in describing one of the most vile regimes of the 20th century, the Islamic Republic of Iran, the American Democracy allows all to raise concerns about their lots including those misrable Hezbollahi "Lat O Lompan" who roam among the many good, decent, civilized and "Namak-Shenas" Iranaians; those who don't demonize the very country, the USA, that has kindly embraced them from 1979 to present, has given them refuge, has given them jobs, and has not called them "animals"!! Rings a bell dear Shiney Head?

To make a long story short, those who still support this regime in this day and age are either part of it (involved in the mental, moral, and physical corruption and rape of of our culture and people looting our national wealth),or are bunch of naive people with an IQ close to that of a raw oyster.

On the other hand, those of us who truly love Iran, don't demonize others as "animals," and care for our people not only try to expose this regime and condemn its violation of human rights, we also are working hard telling the rest of the world: don't allow these mullahs to put their dirty paws on atomic bomb. We also tell the rest of the world: there is a "Third Alternative" to this regime whose slogans are: No Foreign War, No Appeasment of the Mullahs, Democratic Change from within.

It is this Iran, cleansed of the IRI regime, that we should compare with the rest of the civilized world, not pretending that the IRI represents Iran and Iranian people.

finallyYou'd do yourself much good by not calling others "animals"!! Your conduct on this BB hardly puts you in a position of civility.

Free Thinker, I agree with some

of your first post, including its title. That is, I also believe that neither US nor Israel CAN  attack Iran, and that has nothing to do with what NIAC says. Neither is it influenced an iota by the types of present article of Parsi  and sweet wishful thoughts of those who get a more public profile on American and Israeli TV and papers, precisely because of that particular tone. It rather has everything to to do with Iran's foreign policy made in Iran, and the achievements of the country, and the cohesion of the large masses in Iran that ON A REGULAR basis show that they won't allow foreign designs on their country so easily.

Furthermore, I also believe that people like Parsi, or Vali Nasr have no real relevance to internal dynamics of Iran at all, they are too disconnected from the real stuff INSIDE Iran, nor frankly they even speak the same language that is required for the politics of inside Iran. THAT'S PRECISELY WHERE A PERSON LIKE PARSI IS USEFUL! Here's why:

See, unlike what you say, the politics in the US has been always influenced by different lobbies who have the ears of the policy makers. No single lobby have the force to determine US foreign policy of course, including the over exaggerated role of AIPAC,  but they do have differing influence. It was high time for the large number of Iranian-Americans to form a lobby here and get involved in American civic processes and act more cohesively as a group. An energetic, young  and ambitious person like Parsi, whose STRENGTH IS HIS FACILITY WITH POLITICAL PROCESS IN THE US, is an intelligent and educated person with seemingly good intentions, is in my opinion an ideal character to start the efforts he already has regarding an Iranian lobby in the US. The American side would most definitely listen to a person like Parsi than a lot of other Iranians that speak the language of INSIDE Iran!

Sure enough, I have read Parsi's book with a grain of salt considering his academic affiliation with some influential neocons. But, I did not allow that to interfere with my judgment of his book as a well written scholarly project.

Similarly, I am sure a lot of Americans and Israeli-sympathizers would look upon Parsi as  they have looked upon Chalabi, Allawi, or Kenan Makiya in the case of Iraq! Yet, I would not allow my judgment of what Parsi has done for the Iranian-American community be tainted by how  some ill-intentioned Americans might have for Parsi down the road. Of one thing I am certain, Iranians are more politically mature than Iraqis ever were, and even in the latter case we saw that all of US efforts in shoving "their own Iraqis" who had a disconnect to Iraqi people FAILED. That's why all Iranians are disgusted by Amir Taheri for example, and many respect Trita Parsi and for sure they'd follow people like him closely. And, that's why Parsi should be careful not to get too disconnected with the Iranian people in outreaching its enemies!

Trita Parsi works hard for engaging Iranians in American political process, and in bridging Americans to Iranian concerns in a language they understand best. I think he deserves a loud applause for his hard work in that department.

This comparison side by side is UNFAIR

For one, Iranians are a nation of humans who over the 2500 or so years history have protected people, friends or foes. Zio-Nazis are savages that are thirsty for human blood, friends or foe. Why compare side by side?

I tell you what is wrong Anonymous7

These individuals at best serve the interests of the USA and at worst serve the interests of the Islamic regime. the question is: who is on the side of the Iranian people inside Iran? If they were on the side of the nation of Iran, they would have equally pushed the issues of violation of human rights, suppresion of free speech, corruption of the ruling eite and more. Instead they are only focused on the issues of an impossible war and the nuclear technology. We the people of Iran are suffering from lack of freedom and all its related side effects and these people are talking about how to restore relations between the Islamist terrorist regime and the USA in the impossible hope that the regime would improve its records on the above issues. We had these relations in full bloom more than thirty years ago and look where we have ended up now? In a situation thousand times worse. Enough is Enough.

FT, you may be righ!?

FT, you may be right .... ultimately whether Israelis or U.S attack Iran my be determined by many other factors such as:
-how tied up the U.S army is,
-how far Iran is in its nuclear program (are there any nukes or can they be quickly built),
-what are Israeli capabilities (as we know usually Israelis shoot and then think and talk, but this time they are talking, and threatening on daily basis!)
--... etc.
The work of people such as Trita, Nasr, Sahimi, .... may be in vain, but what is wrong with them trying?

USA will not attack Iran - NO Thanks to NIAC

Since when the American foreign policy has been formulated, influenced or even took a detour because of pressure groups or lobbying organization? Whether the US attack Iran or not, will have no bearing to the noise made by such dubious charcters as Trita Parsi or Houshang Amir Ahmadi. If we accept that these individulas are acting at their own initiatives and independent of the Iranian regime, then what is it that they know that the American/British/Israeli intelligence services and their dipolmats with direct experience of dealing with Iran do not? Have you ever asked yourself this question.

Lets go back to basics. Take the case of Parsi. A Zoroasterian of Iranian decent who has been out of Iran since his childhood largely in Sweden and recently in the US. He has a number of degrees including a doctorate from Johns Hopkins which he sees it necessary to remind us, in his Bio on his site, of a string of luminaries who have been his supervisors (from Fukuyama and Brejenski to Doran). And he says he has interviewed more than 130 senior figures in Iranian and Israeli governments to get them to admit that Israel and Iran were having secret dealings with each other!!
Parsi sums up his credentials by this sentence:
"He has followed Middle East politics for more than a decade, both through work in the field, and through extensive experience on Capitol Hill and the United Nations."

But where does the knowledge of Iranian affairs come from? There are hundreds of other Americans and Iranians who would surpass Mr Parsi's academic and professional achievements and his knowledge of the field by vast measures and yet we are led to believe that the American policy makers have no better source to listen to than Parsi, Amir Ahmadi or Nasr! One can easily conclude that we being duped by the myth makers.

BUT, if there is an intimate and reliable connection between these individuals and the Iranian regime, then and only then can one be convinced that American are lending their ears to the right people and these individuals can act as the much needed go betweens. Otherwise, the role of these lobbying groups would not make liitle or no sense.

FT

iran is bigger than that

The article erroneously states that:
"Iran is majority Persian and Shi'ite; its neighbors are majority Arab and Sunni."

Last I checked, Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, and Pakistan are not majority Arab and not all majority Sunni either.

Iran is bigger than the Middle East, more diverse than that.

Disappointed the article tries to bottleneck Iran as surrounded by Sunni Arab states like Israel, because Iran-zamin is so much more than just that one flank.

ultimately the dialog has to evolve(to Jaleh)

Jaleh, I'll be much more than happy if I hear in the news tonight that Iran has the ultimate deterrence (several nukes) ..... but what next? As you pointed out the tail wags the dog (Israel has a strong control over U.S) and that is one more powerful reason that Iran and Israel need to start negotiating directly.
People like Trita Parsi and Ben are the pioneers of this process, and we should encourage them ... very likely Jaleh and Mehdi Mazloom (a Zionist poster) will never be totally satisfied with all the details and that is fine, they can continue busting each others head over Zionism, ..etc ... but the dialog needs to go on and evolve to something that reduces this unnecessary animosity between the two countries that don't have a border (main source of conflict) but have many deep links.

I think discussing regime's

I think discussing regime's atrocities does not belong to this thread.

Anonym500: I'm by no means fan of NIAC or Mr. Parsi; however, he is right about the danger of war and the need to stop villification of both countries. I don't care much about NIAC's politics or Mr. Parsi's other Entrepreneurial endeavors. If Mr. Parsi can convince the lunatic hardliners to compromise and see the light, more power to him.

hhh, lastly

Are you going to answer to our dear friend Anonymous500?

As the comment of Anonymous500 suggests, there are many people who seem confused about these issues and NIAC, to name one. That is the reason that I answer and you might feel that I am talking "down" on you!

hhh

I have no issues with peaceful resolutions with respect to Iran as equal in the negotiations. Starting with the very first incentive packages to the IR, I was hoping that Iran would compromise. You might be mistaking about my comments related to this very issue with the preemptive threats from Israel and the US to bully Iran. That is a different issue. I agree with the NIAC's position and am pro mutual respect.

To NIAC Supporters: This is IRI, "Quasi Democ" in Action!!

Ladies and Gentlmen of the NIAC: Please take a look at the following news items and tell the rest of the world how a "Quasi Democraci" that IRI is, according to your Leader, Trita Parsi, is functioning in Iran. If this is a quasi-democracy, I wonder what a Totalitarian Fascist Religious Dictatorship would do!!

رژيم ضد بشرى آخوندى حكم ضدانسانی قطع 4انگشت سه زندانی را صادر كرد
8:06:54 AM 1387/5/1

Please also read the following news item and see how this Quasi Dem is working for our people in Iran:

صدها تن از مردم منطقه «احمد‌آباد» یکی از محلات فقیرنشین و حاشیه‌نشین شهر بجنورد در اعتراض به تخریب واحدهای مسكونی خود در مقابل استانداری رژیم در این شهر تجمع كردند.
معترضین که به همراه زنان و کودکان خود در مقابل استانداری رژیم در بجنورد ـ مركز استان خراسان شمالی - تجمع كرده بودند، تاکید كردند که پیش از تخریب هیچ‌گونه اخطار، تذکر یا ابلاغیه‌ای در این زمینه به دست آن‌ها نرسیده و عملیات تخریب بدون اطلاع قبلی و به صورت ناگهانی صورت گرفته است. به اعتراف رسانه های حكومتی عوامل اجرائیات شهرداری بجنورد (مرکز استان خراسان شمالی) سحرگاه روز یک‌شنبه در معیت ماموران سركوبگر نیروی انتظامی و دادگستری رژیم عملیات تخریب خانه های مردم محروم در منطقه حاشیه‌نشین احمدآباد را آغاز کردند.

FYI/Iranian Parliament Moves To Approve Polygamy

//www.payvand.com/news/08/jul/1206.html

Hey Israelis we Have Harems You Don't ! (sic)

hahaha,,Scratch the last

hahaha,,Scratch the last paragraph on my previous post...It was a response to another blog on a different site. I don't know how it got there...

Abarmard: By talking down, I meant that you always talk in abstract as if you're privy or know more than the rest of do. You think we don't know about AIPAC, Imperialism, Israel or US plan for the region, NPT treaty, Israel's lack of participation in NPT, etc. Dear Abarmard, we are not stupid...we know all these threats exists but the solution is not to build an Islamic Bomb or interfere in other Arab countries affairs...it will only come back and bite us in the rear, in the long run. There is already an atmosphere of Sunni backlash against Iranians in Iraq, Lebanon, and Egypt...Sunni Killings in Iraq or Lebanon funded and ordered by the mullahs in Iran will have grave consequences for Iran and the region in the next 30 years....but the pressing issue right now is the looming war...

I have been reading your posts for a long time and you come across as a naive and idealistic individual who thinks Iran should take on the US and Israel militaristically (i.e. you advocate zero compromise) and fight for it's Nuclear rights (an outdated technology that any nuclear physics graduate can find on the internet).

You don't seem to realize that Israel is just as paranoid and determined to stand her grounds as the mullahs in the Islamic Republic.

In fact, Mr. Parsi writes about the palpable dangers of such thinking viscerally and prophetically warns us about this kind of attitude on both sides and is warning against it:

"The looming Iran-Israel confrontation has a seemingly deterministic quality to it. Listening to the politicians, one gets a sense that powers beyond our control are pulling us toward a 21st-century disaster.

We need to rein in those "beyond our uncontrol" instincts such as yours and the hardline mullahs in order to avoid a catasrophic fate for Iranians.

We= those who believe in compromise and peace between the two nations and in nonnegotiable resolution of the nuclear issue through diplomacy NOT war/military/proxy war,etc.

P.S. I do agree that Israel should join the NPT as a confidence building measure to put the rest Islamic republic's somewhat legitimate paranoi. Peace!

hhh?

I don't understnad your point? How am I talking down at you? You made a statement and I added my wish list to it.

What you say is not in disagreement with my ideas and I don't get your argument here. You first made an assumption that I am pro Bomb then go a head and argued that it would be good any ways!

And who are these "We" that you keep mentioning? Are "they" sitting next to you? (We also don't subscribe to your solution...)

Don't subscribe to it. Good for you.