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What will Israel do?
31-Jan-2008
Though the White House press release read "President Bush to travel to Middle East to follow up on progress made at Annapolis," his January trip actually centered on Iran, a country he did not visit.
America's friends -- the Persian Gulf monarchs as well as Israel -- fear that the publication of the recent National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) means the United States is weakening in its resolve to confront the rising threat from Iran. President Bush made his Middle East jaunt, in part, to assure them that that assessment was premature.
Since its appearance in December, the NIE has given pause to Israeli policy makers and provided succor for State Department analysts who believe the Bush administration is overestimating the case for Tehran's nuclear intentions. That is because the report implies that the threat from Iran has diminished. But in fact, a careful and close reading of the NIE does not warrant this interpretation. In the end, the report will only make it harder to address a growing threat to world peace.
Indeed, Americans might believe we no longer have to worry about Iran's nuclear program. In fact, the problem is worse because diplomacy may be more complicated, though not necessarily impossible. The most troubling prospect is that the United States and Israel are headed in opposite directions, which could lead to a severe strain in their relationship.
The NIE begins: "We judge with high confidence that in fall 2003, Tehran halted its nuclear weapons program." That's nice, but it does not matter very much. As the NIE states, "We assess with high confidence that Iran has the scientific, technical, and industrial capacity eventually to produce nuclear weapons if it decides to do so." The key word in that sentence is "eventually" because the most vital question is when Iran will be able to produce its first nuclear weapon. The NIE says nothing about how the reported halt of Iran's nuclear weapons program affects that date.
Despite the impression given by the wording in the NIE, Iran has by no means stopped its nuclear activities. In fact, Iran proudly shows off the progress it is making with its huge uranium-enrichment facilities. The Nobel Peace Prize-winning director of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Mohamed ElBaradei, has said that when those facilities are completed, Iran would need only "a few months" more to build a nuclear weapon. That estimate suggests that the hard part is enriching the uranium -- not making a bomb. In other words, the wording of the NIE is deceptive: building a bomb is relatively easy. Producing nuclear material is not.
That is why the 40-year effort to verify and enforce the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT) has been based on controlling the production of fissile material -- that is, enriched uranium or plutonium. NPT enforcement is based on safeguarding nuclear material, not only looking to see if a country is building a weapon. Iran does not need to have a weapons program -- that is, a bomb-design program -- until it is close to producing fissile material. After all, Iran does not need a sophisticated warhead such as the ones that go atop missiles. It could put a bulky, heavy nuclear device into a ship container or a truck -- similar to the truck Iran's proxies used to bomb the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut in 1983.
So what does the NIE say about when Iran will be able to make sufficient fissile material for a bomb? The old estimate, made in 2005, stated this was "unlikely before early-to-mid next decade." The new NIE says, "Iran probably would be technically capable of producing enough HEU [highly enriched uranium] for a weapon sometime during the 2010-2015 time frame." The only caveat is from the State Department's intelligence arm, which "judges that Iran is unlikely to achieve this capability before 2013." How nice -- we may even have as long as five years. That is better than nothing, but it is not very good.
International Pressure, U.S. Engagement or Military Force?
The NIE argues that Iran can be persuaded through sticks and carrots: "We judge with high confidence that the halt [in Iran's nuclear weapons program] was directed primarily in response to increasing international scrutiny and pressure resulting from exposure of Iran's previously undeclared nuclear work."
Iran's decision to suspend its nuclear weapons program, in fact, came in the fall of 2003, after the British, French and German leaders bluntly told Iran: suspend your nuclear program or suffer the consequences. Their stand was unprecedented in its forcefulness for the usually mild Europeans. And, of course, they acted in the wake of what then looked like a successful U.S. invasion of Iraq. The lesson the NIE draws is that when Iran sees a united international community, it backs down.
"Our assessment that the [nuclear weapons] program probably was halted primarily in response to international pressure suggests Iran may be more vulnerable to influence on the issue than we judged previously," the NIE reads.
I think that is correct; a longtime theme of my work has been Iran's vulnerability to influence on the nuclear issue, so it would be comforting to think that the NIE is accurate in this regard. But honesty as an analyst compels me to report that the NIE provides little reason to come to this conclusion.
The alternative, more cynical interpretation from many of my Israeli friends is that Iran understood that suspending its nuclear weapons program would have no effect on its progress toward nuclear weapons, yet would reduce the risk that IAEA inspectors would discover Iran's true intentions. In other words, the NIE displays undue confidence that the U.S. intelligence community knows not just what happened but the reasons why.
That over-confidence fits a pattern. The sad reality is that the U.S. intelligence community's track record on Iran suggests that its knowledge has been not much better than it was about Iraq or North Korea. As the new NIE points out, the 2005 estimate assessed "with high confidence that Iran currently is determined to develop nuclear weapons," whereas the new estimate is that Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in fall 2003 -- well before the 2005 estimate came out.
Since the intelligence community has now decided it was wrong in 2005, one might think that U.S. intelligence agencies would be more cautious about what they now purport to know. It is possible that the new information is the last word on the subject, but it is vital to remember that deciding whether or not Iran is "determined" is a matter of interpretation, not just information.
According to the NIE, Iran did in fact have a covert nuclear weapons program up until 2003. If that information is correct, then Iran has been in complete violation of its obligations under the NPT, both by having a program until 2003 and then not reporting it up through the present day. Only full disclosure can provide confidence that Iran will not restart the program.
What if Iran gets to the brink of a bomb?
If Iran gets to the brink of a bomb, then there will be a vigorous debate about what to do. The two obvious alternatives are: stop Iran's nuclear program by force or live with it by deterring it. Military force is always a terrible choice, so we need to carefully consider whether there is a better alternative. Deterrence sounds attractive; after all, it worked during the Cold War.
But deterrence is not a simple policy. Even during the Cold War, it meant accepting great risks, as evident from the Cuban missile crisis. And deterring a nuclear Iran is likely to prove much more difficult than deterrence was during the Cold War for a host of reasons:
* The Cold War required committing hundreds of thousands of troops and hundreds of billions of dollars a year for decades. The international community may not have the political will to assemble a broad coalition of states ready to commit forces to deter a nuclear Iran or the staying power to maintain such a military coalition over a period of decades.
* The Cold War saw mid-size powers like Germany and Italy reluctantly accept protection from the superpowers rather than build their own nuclear weapons. It will be no small challenge to deter the dozens of other potential proliferators who may conclude from Iran's experience that there is little price to be paid for violating the NPT or withdrawing from it. Since Iran's clandestine nuclear activities were brought to light, nine Middle East countries have announced they are rethinking their nuclear options.
* The Middle East security environment is much more complicated than the straightforward East-West Cold War. The Iran-Iraq war killed a half million people, at least 10 times more than have died in all Israeli-Arab fighting. Introduce nuclear weapons into this messy situation, and many more may die.
* The Soviet Union more or less lived up to agreements it made. The Islamic Republic of Iran has a long history of dissimulation. Iran may be tempted to try covert, deniable nuclear weapons delivery -- for instance, by terrorist groups -- which the United States would have difficulty attributing to it.
* For all its faults, the Soviet Union was a tightly run ship. Iran's regime is dotted with factions that seem to pay little attention to any central authority. What's worse, the Revolutionary Guards, the same radical elements that provide support to terrorists, control aspects of the nuclear program. To say that there are potential command-and-control problems is an understatement.
* The Soviet communist system wanted to rule the world. In Islamic Iran, some radical elements appear to be willing to destroy the world. They are so highly confident God is on their side that they are ready to risk bringing on the apocalypse.
What Will Israel Do?
If the United States decides to live with a nuclear-armed Iran, Israel may not accede. For the United States, Iranian nuclear capability is a big problem but by no means an existential threat. By contrast, Israel has to worry that Iran will supplement the hundreds of millions of dollars it spends each year to arm those fighting to wipe Israel off the map (Hamas and Hezbollah) with nuclear threats aimed at the same purpose.
If Israel decides to use force on its own, that would have many disadvantages for U.S. interests. An Israeli strike would convert a global issue about Iran's failure to comply with its obligations under international treaties into an Iranian-Israeli dispute, where many around the world would automatically take sides against Israel.
An Israeli strike could engender such international criticism that Iran would be confident it can rebuild without fearing international disapproval, much less a second round of strikes. Many around the world would assume that Washington gave Israel permission, if not assistance, so the United States would face much the same reaction as if it had carried out a raid itself. That could mean vicious Iranian responses against U.S. interests.
If Israel acts against the wishes of the United States, the worst of all situations would be created if it does the job poorly. In such a case, the threat from Iran's nuclear program would be magnified, and the U.S.-Israel alliance would be damaged. Unfortunately, this case is distinctly possible. This makes it all the more urgent that we reinforce diplomacy with tough sanctions and close international coordination at the highest levels to maximize the chances, admittedly fading, that Iran agrees to a compromise.
Patrick Clawson, the deputy director for research of The Washington Institute for Near East Policy, is the author of several books on Iran. �
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Hey AnonymousKalimi
by Anonymous-Zartoshti (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 03:50 PM PSTMikonameta, don't talk to my Iranian buddy you piece of shit, vatan forush. And don't make Kalimis look bad dick head or I'll tell your buddy Ahmadinejad to come and pay you a visit. lol
programmer craig
by Jamaleto (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 03:47 PM PSTWhatever. Here is what I think of you:
You sound like the comic book guy from the Simpsons. And I do believe now for a fact that you are not an American. No way. Israeli, very possible though. hmmm, I think very deeply...hmmm. But regardless, you are an ass, that is for sure. Thanks for the entertainment. I am beginning to think that Mama's comments about you is right. hmmm. Boo. oh that was me, don't get scared. I ain't going to hurt you. Oh by the way, I can see how nicely you can answer questions. You are an idiot, but more like an asshole of an idiot. Zionist lover Hitler worshiper racist asshole. Now I hope I made myself clear what I think of you. Now that you know, get lost and go get fucked by your buddies. Later loser.
It is just very interesting
by Farhad Kashani (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 03:30 PM PSTIt is just very interesting for me to see that all these leftists and IRI apologist Iranians act so cold heartedly and show no respect for others. The essential question is why these “khaaneh-kahraab-kon” Iranians feel that Israel shouldn’t defend itself when IRI started a brutal anti-Israeli campaign since 1979 considering the fact that demolition of Israel is a vital part of the existence of Islamic regime? Anti Israel and anti U.S is the cornerstone of the survival of this incredibly inhumane and barbaric regime. And none of these leftists and IRI apologists on this site such as Daryoush or mama or others were ever able to give anyone, including themselves, a good reason why Iran should be a staunch anti Israel nation? Based on what? And what is the price we should pay for it? I tell you what is: its enviousness! Towards what Israel has become. And also for IRI to rally young Arab Muslim to operate as its terrorist army. That is all its about. Israel has done absolutely nothing to us, offcourse it has occupied Arab lands and killed innocent Arabs, but nothing to us, to deserve what the IRI has done against it! And do you really expect the world to believe that IRI is doing that because it cares about human rights of other people, when it has taken the most basic rights of its own citizens, like no other government in the last 50 years has done, with the exception of Taliban, which was an IRI-copy?
Mama's Mother
by AnonymousKalimi (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:51 PM PSTI am persian jew working for AIPAC- now that we know Mama's Mamma lives in Iran, we will definitely order AIPAC and Bush to attack Iran. We really want Mama's Mamma to get it in the Koon for sending her Koony Son to America.
Programmer Craig- Iranian Americans are in Dreamland
by margbarIRI (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:47 PM PSTAs you can see from some of the comments here, the majority of Iranian are out of touch with reality. We are racist to.
1) First, we think that we have a great culture.
Except for some great food such as Goormeh sabzi, faloodeh and good rice making abilities, we have adopted the Arab tribe like culture and we protect our insane mullah government at the expense of reality.
2) Second, we think we have great influence in the region and that our military is respected.
The reality is that we support all the radical loser elements in the region which are hated by most Arab governments. Hizbollah and Hamas are popular in Syria and Shiite controlled Lebanon. The Hizbollah military wing is about 500-1000 man strong with 20,000 plus rockets with no real military value. Its more of a problem for Israel since it would have to seriously invade Lebanon and destroy it into a parking lot and it does not want to do it at the expense of killing thousand of innocent Lebanese. That is why Israel did not make a full assult on Lebanon (because it would have to be an occupier and killer of inocent arabs in order to get ride of the 1000 man Hizbolah Army). Not worth the price at the moment.
As to Hamas, Israel will have to probably invade Gaza again and take over. But who gives a damn about the Gazans anyway? No one except for Ahmadinejad.
As to our military, we have a 75 million population. The weapons are mainly from China and what is home made is based on Chinese technology as well. Have you ever played with Chinese toys? The Iranian military is in posession of Chinese made toys. Western weapon systems (stealth, missiles controlled by GPS and Anti Missile systems) will desimate the Iranian military in a matter of hours. They will have to resort to the same Japanese suicide tactics which at the end will result in a few nukes if to many western soldiers start loosing their lives (by the way that is why the west does not want Iran to have nukes).
We boast over the Russian made air defense system. But as you recall, the Israelis over the summer, broke through the Syrian defense system which happens to be the same Iranian defense system.
For 8 years we were trying to beat Saddam's rag tag Army at a cost of 800,000 dead. Now these Xerxes characters here think that we can take on the west because we have a million man Army.
Finally, the Arabs are sick of us as well and don't really respect us. They resent us because we are making more problems for them in Iraq, Lebanon and occupied Palestinian territories. They know that we want to spread our Shia brand all over the place through proxies and they don't like it.
The fact is that we, as a nation, have been at the mercy of larger powers (Ottoman, Russian and Arab invaders) for the past 1400 years. With all the so called culture, we still can not get a good political system, we execute our brothers and sisters over politics, sexual relations and drugs; we waist all the oil wealth and have to ration it internally because we do not have enough refining capacity and other than oil our other great imports are pestachio nuts and donkeys.
We are big dreamers and if we don't wake up, we will get our asses kicked just like the Germans and Japan is WWII.
Jamaleto and others
by programmer craig on Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:45 PM PSTJamaleto: programmer craig are you stupid
You seem to think I am. Do you think all Americans are stupid?
AnnoyingMouse: Aren't you the same guy who...
No. Aren't you the same guy who was supposed to fix my refrigerator and passed out drunk on the kitchen floor instead?
Daryush: I have done my military service also. And I am not advocating anything...
Another person who thinks all Americans are stupid?
Anonymous1974b, thanks :)
Mama's Mother
by AnonymousKalimi (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:40 PM PSTI am persian jew working for AIPAC- now that we know Mama's Mamma lives in Iran, we will definitely order AIPAC and Bush to attack Iran. We really want Mama's Mamma to get it in the Koon for sending her Koony Son to America.
programmer craig are you stupid
by Jamaleto (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:23 PM PSTAn Israeli site that talks bad about America? when did anyone talk bad about America? Are mixing Zionists with America?
And why would they talk bad about America when you are paying their fucking bills? you pay anyone they respect you. Don't pay them and see if they still be your friend. America pays everything for Zionist and you expect them to talk bad? is that stupid or what? Have you ever talked about Zionist and being label anti Semite? because you are freaking colony man, go try to separate US from those leaches and see what happens. Give a shot, and I'll see you in jail!!
You come to an Iranian site and talk tough, because you can and no one tells you that you are racist. go do that in any Israeli site, I dare you. I am done with you man. You are just weird. You kill and are proud of it? You call yourself a human? Your information is so freaking wrong that I don't know where to begin to educate you. you are pathetic.
programmer craig are you stupid
by Jamaleto (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:18 PM PSTAn Israeli site that talks bad about America? when did anyone talk bad about America? Are mixing Zionists with America?
And why would they talk bad about America when you are paying their fucking bills? you pay anyone they respect you. Don't pay them and see if they still be your friend. America pays everything for Zionist and you expect them to talk bad? is that stupid or what? Have you ever talked about Zionist and being label anti Semite? because you are freaking colony man, go try to separate US from those leaches and see what happens. Give it a shot, and I'll see you in jail!!
You come to an Iranian site and talk tough, because you can and no one tells you that you are racist. go do that in any Israeli site, I dare you. I am done with you man. You are just lost.
programmer craig
by Annoyingmouse (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:16 PM PSTAren't you the same guy who couple of months ago sent a letter to iranian.com with his company's email address, trying to intimate us by saying you are going to put back your uniform on and kick our ass? Man, drop your high school attitude. We live here in the US and have many American friends, if not families. Your comments about Iranians are utterly from your arrogance and ignorance. Actually Iranians inside iran are much nicer than us. You simply don't know us. Drop your attitude we can be your best friend or your worst enemy it's totally up to you. We cherish friendship and we like to laugh with our friends. We never attack first. We are never predictable in the time of war. The more you know about our capabilities is the less you actually know about it. Man, drop it. Come again and say hi instead then see how we respond. Peace man! Take care!
Blood suckers
by mama (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:12 PM PSTThe mission of the Jews in American is to equate America and American patriotism with the Israeli cause. That way they can keep sucking American tax dollars and blood
RE: programmer craig Lastly
by Daryush on Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:09 PM PSTI have done my military service also. And I am not advocating anything, I am answering you and letting you know that war is not a game and the Iranians are fully aware about the strength (or lack of it) of the foreign foces around. You can't come here talk the way you do then expect me to admire your "knowledge". I hope you also would not talk about the war and stay home when it's time to serve. No Iranian will stand still or even think about a possibilty of surrender, you have my word on that. Iranians would fight to the last drop of blood. Don't be a baby either, I noticed that when you lack the knowledge to answer, you turn to threat as if I should get scared. With that morality level I wouldn't advocate war!
Read the title of this article and many others in the American media before blaming me or Iranians for WAR, get it? READ THE TITLE OF THIS ARTICLE. know where you are before blaming others. Just like your childish administration that blames Iran and everyone else for their absolute lost and shortcomigs. You have learned well from them.
Finally, you can't scare an old lady from a big dick, didn't I say that before?
who said anything bad about America
by mama (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:09 PM PSTWho said anything bad about America and American here? Why are you equating America with the dirty Jews
Maybe that is your mission, you blood sucking Jew. Haven’t you had enough American tax dollars and blood?
Thank you Craig!
by Anonymous1974b (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:07 PM PSTRight on Craig. You have exposed these idiots. They do not know what they are talking about. They have been influenced by the radical elements in the US. They hate the US at any cost.They fail to admit that the instigator here is Iran and blame "American Imperialism" (which does not exist) for everything. They refuse to look at the geopolitics of Iran (under its current regime) having nukes. They want to be proud Iranians at any cost. Anyone who disagrees is a Jew. They deserve whats coming to them.
F*** all Smites
by mama (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:03 PM PSTDon’t be scared of the little Jews. They want to bomb my mother who lives in Iran. Do you think I give a flying fuck about the dirty Smites (aka smelly Arabs and blood sucking Jews)
Jamaleto
by programmer craig on Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:03 PM PSTThen they would know more about the Zionist agenda and AIPAC.
We know about Israel, and we know about Jews. We don't know as much as we should about Iranians, though, from what I can see here.
Can you point me to some Israeli blogs (or Media for that matter) that says the kind of awful things about America, that are being said here?
Can you point me to some Jewish-Americans who say the kind of awful things about America, that are being said by Iranian-Americans here?
Even Noam Chomsky and the Finklestein character don't say anything as bad about the US as what the average Iranian here does. And they are *famous* for being critical of the US.
It's not because of AIPAC that the US supports Israel, and not the IRI.
Mama - Are you nuts?
by Mash Ghasem (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 01:57 PM PSTIf you have nothing else to say except Jew this Jew that. Please Stop. You are not making any sense and you are making all of our Hamvatans look anti-semitic. Please tone down your idiotic comments.
ain't gonna happen
by mama (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 01:55 PM PSTTo all you Avareh (aka without country and identity) Jews posting under different names and claiming to be Iranian
No way a bunch of little douche bag Jews can walk over Iran and take over the Mideast. It’s not gonna happen
Daryush, I will remember
by programmer craig on Fri Feb 01, 2008 01:51 PM PSTRight back at you!
I will be on this blog, throwing your own words back in your face, next year or the year after, or whenever it is that we see what your attitude has brought to your country. Don't worry about that. Will you be here, to defend yourself? Or will you change your name and pretend to be somebody who wasn't an obnoxious and militant loudmouth in the past?
When I was in the Marines, we used to call somebody like you a "Pray for War". Not a very admirable personality type, but at least they were in a position where they'd be the ones who bore the consequences if their prayers were ever answered. I hope you are not such a coward as to be advocating war while living in safety someplace where you won't be affected by it.
Hey Agho programmer craig
by Jamaleto (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 01:47 PM PSTI wish American would read period. Then they would know more about the Zionist agenda and AIPAC. Do you really believe that the United States citizens are aware what their politicians are doing with their money and brothers in the military? the government feeding them bunch of lies and takes their lives for absolutely nothing!!! they have no idea. It's not Iran that has ever talked about preemptive strike or war against any country. That's Israel and your Bush. Here many are telling you that it won't be easy, I double that. Iran will fight hard, not with weapons alone! We are Iranians after all, and regardless of the regime can't allow anyone to bully us. Let all your friends know that if they didn't yet.
Unlike a Zionist site that no one dares to talk about the Zionist crimes, here you can even discuss about war with Iran (bombing my brothers) being an American. What else do you want?
Mama is Divaneh
by Professor Iran (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 01:46 PM PSTMr. Mama. We understand you. Jew are to blame for all of this. Thank you for your input. Do you have anything else? Oh yes- Its AIPAC also. Sorry we forgot. Now please go see a ravanshenas. You really need it if your Maman and baba have not recommended that you see one yet.
Mr. Daryush
by AnonymousMmama (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 01:38 PM PSTKhol= Crazy in real persian as well. Nobody said they were supporting a war. At least I did not. Just FYI. My 2 cents were in response to Mama's idiotic comments which had nothing to do with the subject matter.
RE: programmer craig Again
by Daryush on Fri Feb 01, 2008 01:33 PM PST"It's the best thing that happened to Iraq?
Perhaps if Iran shares Iraq's fate, you will do liek [Bush]
and claim it is a divince victory? Would your fellow [Americans] share
that sentiment? There aren't many Iraqis/[Americans] these days who feel they've
won something, are there?
All this bold talk is fine. I just hope that you will remember what
you were saying, if you talk yourself into a living nightmare. I hope
other [Americans] will remember it, as well. It seems clear to me that it
is you and some others on Iranian.com who desire war, and not your
ideological opponents. Be careful what you wish for. You just might get
it."
Right back at you!
To: mama
by programmer craig on Fri Feb 01, 2008 01:33 PM PSTI don’t give a flying f*** if Clawson is a Jew or not or if he is an assclo-asscon or what. He is a Jew puppet anyway.
Just trying to help. He's probably laughing at you for calling him a Jew, same as you'd laugh at somebody who called you a spic or a ni%$er. All you do is expose your own racist nature, and you don't even get any traction.
I think more Americans (not Iranian-Americans) should read this site. It's very educational.
You are no fellow Iranian
by mama (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 01:26 PM PSTYou are a BeMeehan Jew. Jews have never had a Meehan and hated by everybody. That is why you are jealous of us.
You can spin this any which way you want.
Bottom line, Mideast is Iranian realm and a bunch of little Jews can’t do shit
Daryush (again)
by programmer craig on Fri Feb 01, 2008 01:17 PM PSTyet that's the best thing that happened to the Middle East.
It's the best thing that happened to Iraq?
Perhaps if Iran shares Iraq's fate, you will do liek Hassan Nasrallah and claim it is a divince victory? Would your fellow Iranians share that sentiment? There aren't many Iraqis these days who feel they've won something, are there?
All this bold talk is fine. I just hope that you will remember what you were saying, if you talk yourself into a living nightmare. I hope other Iranians will remember it, as well. It seems clear to me that it is you and some others on Iranian.com who desire war, and not your ideological opponents. Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
Hey who wants to mess with Iran?
by Dahan_Service_kon (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 01:07 PM PSTDid I hear someone wants to mess with Iran? they can eat shit and die. I don't care about anything or anyone, if Israel or Misrael attacks, they better sing their "ashad", it's over. That goes for any country. Regardless of their beautiful women! Because once there is no war, I am lover baby.
This debate is beyond politics
by Daryush on Fri Feb 01, 2008 01:00 PM PSTAlthough I can easily agree that the entire shebang has become a political masturbation, yet this is more of a humanistic issue, looking through a philosophical lens. The Palestinian issue is an excuse to bring about an ideological issue and a catastrophe. To realize the crimes of a nation building.
I would argue that this is not an Islamic or nationality issue, and if each one of us become actively against this kind of atrocities, be it in Palestine, Iran Sudan, then you will see that the politicians and governments would at least try not so easily mess with the future of lives of the people.
It’s a humanistic issue that we need to learn and evolve ourselves. This is not to say that Israel has no right to exist, but to say that Israel must recognize publically what has done, and move forward to unite the people. The suffering of Palestinians is a excuse to portrait a wrong doing of the west. So please keep this idea in mind when you want to comment.
Remember why we need to speak up:
First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.
Why is this douche-bag posting here?
by mama (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:56 PM PSTThey are taking our temperature. Let be no doubt in their little Jew mind that if Iran is attacked, Israel will be destroyed by all means necessary.
Israel
by Anonymous Iranian (not verified) on Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:41 PM PSTJudging by the fact that Israel had a very very tough time fending off a bunch of ragtag militias that were a few miles away, I can't imagine if they would have what it takes to engage in a SUSTAINABLE fight with Iran who has a million person army, that is armed with several submarines, has mig29 and su27 and f14 aircraft, a full arsenal of medium and long range balistic missiles, a superior air defense system, including drone aircraft. If iran is attacked, especially by israel, they had better make sure they kill everyone. Because even if one person survives, that little strip of land called israel will be uninhabitable for a very long time. Iran has made clear that while they don't recognize Israel as a state, since it is really an apartheid regime, they will never launch a first strike against it. However if Iran is attacked by Israel, the Dimona nuclear facility is already targeted for destruction. and even if they launch 100 patriot missiles against an iranian retaliation, Dimona needs to get hit only once for it to become inoperable, and contaminate 100 mile radius.