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Who killed Mughniyah?
17-Feb-2008
Written by Gabriel Emile Eid, Fabia Bristow, and Masoud Kazemzadeh
Imad Mughniyah, one of the world’s foremost terrorists, was reportedly killed late Tuesday night February 12, 2008 Damascus time.[1] No one has yet claimed responsibility. In this article, we discuss who might have eliminated Mughniyah. We look at motives, capabilities, and a history of similar actions. We see seven possibilities: 1- Israeli government; 2- Syrian government; 3- U.S. government; 4- the fundamentalist regime ruling Iran; 5- professional assassin; 6- Mughniyah’s rivals inside the Hezbollah; and 7- Mughniyah faked his death.
(1) Israeli Government Killed Mughniyah
The Lebanese Hezbollah has pointed finger at Israel.[2] Israel has the capability and a history of assassinating those who have killed Israelis or Jewish people around the world. But what are possible Israeli motives other than the elimination of one of the most successful terrorists who has been targeting Israelis and Jews? Israel failed to crush Hezbollah in the “34 Day War” during summer 2006. Israel may want to finish the job it failed to accomplish in 2006. Israel, however, could not start a war due to international law and public opinion. Israel could attack if it was the Hezbollah that initiated the war. Thus assuming that Hezbollah would attack Israel after the death of Mughniyah, and assuming that Israel is in a better situation now than in 2006, and assuming that Hezbollah is in a worse situation than in 2006, then it would be in the interest of Israel to assassinate Mughniyah or pay someone in Damascus to assassinate him.
The first assumption seems to be coming true. Sheikh Hassan Nasrollah, the secretary-general of Hezbollah has said: “Zionists, if you want this sort of open war, then let the whole world hear, so be it!... The blood of Imad Mughniyah will make them [Israel] withdraw from existence.”[3] If Nasrollah’s verbal declaration of war is accompanied by a violent action, that would provide Israel the justification to massively attack Hezbollah.
The second assumption will be tested if in fact a war ensues.
The third assumption seems to be true. Unlike July-August 2006, when almost the entire Lebanese society supported Hezbollah and condemned Israel, today Hezbollah is isolated in Lebanon due to a variety of factors. Since the assassination of Rafik Hariri, who wanted to expel Syrian occupation forces and restore Lebanese sovereignty, there has been a rise in what may be called Lebanese nationalism and demands for sovereignty from outside powers. This new mood is expressed by Fouad Siniora and his supporters, variously called “March 14th Coalition,” “Pro-Democracy Forces,” “Parliamentary Majority,” and “the Government.” Opposed to the pro-democracy forces are Syrian regime, the fundamentalist regime ruling Iran, and Lebanon’s Hezbollah. Due to Hezbollah’s support for Syrian domination of Lebanon and its placing obstacles to the establishment of a UN tribunal to investigate the assassination of Rafik Hariri (widely held to be ordered by the Syrian regime), Hezbollah has come to be viewed negatively in the past year and half. Although Hezbollah’s subservience to the fundamentalist regime ruling Iran has been well-known, the new mood in favor of sovereignty has caused negative feelings toward the Hezbollah. Lebanon’s Hezbollah is probably the only political party in the world that in its organizational chart and manifestos and in actual practice, puts the leader of another country as its own’s ultimate leader. The Lebanese Hezbollah puts The Supreme Leader in Iran as its highest leader.[4]
Wikipedia summarizes the work of one of the top scholars of Hezbollah:
Since the Supreme Leader of Iran is the ultimate clerical authority, Hezbollah’s leaders have appealed to him “for guidance and directives in cases when Hezbollah’s collective leadership [was] too divided over issues and fail[ed] to reach a consensus.” After the death of Iran’s first Supreme Leader, Khomeini, Hezbollah’s governing bodies developed a more “independent role” and appealed to Iran less often.[5]
The Lebanese Hezbollah regards the Supreme Leader, or Wali al-Faghih, to have been Ruhollah Khomeini and Ali Khamanehi. This is to say that the leader of one country can order a party in another country to do as it orders it to do. This means that Ali Khamanehi can order the Lebanese Hezbollah to start a war with Israel tomorrow and the Lebanese Hezbollah HAS to obey his orders and start a war with Israel. This issue of being another country’s bullet means that the Lebanese Hezbollah has to do something that Khamanehi orders it although that may be against the national interests of Lebanon.[6] This has made many Lebanese to regard Hezbollah to be a traitor to Lebanon’s independence and sovereignty. This is accentuated by the Lebanese being Arab and Iran being a non-Arab country.[7]
(2) Syrian Government Killed Mughniyah
Two of the most prominent leaders of the pro-democracy faction Walid Jumblatt and Saad Hariri have publicly stated that Syrian regime is behind the assassination of Mughniyah.[8] Mr. Jumblatt is the leader of the Progressive Socialist Party of Lebanon, which is a Druz party. Although initially subservient to Syrian domination and occupation of Lebanon, he has changed and now supports independence and sovereignty for Lebanon, which puts him in direct conflict with Syrian regime, the fundamentalist regime ruling Iran, and the Hezbollah. Saad Hariri is the son of the late Rafik Hariri and the leader of the majority in parliament.
Syrian regime has a long history of assassinations. But most significantly is the location of the assassination and the nature of the Syrian regime (a police state where the regime has a tight control of the population). The assassination occurred in a wealthy neighborhood. The place where the explosion occurred is where the feared (and competent) Estekhbarat [Ministry of Intelligence], the Iranian school (presumably for the children of the fundamentalist regime’s officials and operatives), and a police headquarter are located.[9] Apparently Mughniyah had gone from the Iranian school to his car when he was killed.
Obviously the Syrian regime has the capability to assassinate Mughniyah. But what benefit would accrue to it? The Syrian regime is divided between two factions. One faction believes that the U.S. is in decline and thus advocates getting closer to the fundamentalist regime ruling Iran and to Lebanese Hezbollah so that Syria could dominate the region. The other faction is composed of forces that believe it would be in their interest to follow the so-called Libyan model and abandon the extremist and terrorist forces in the region and instead join the Western world. The second faction believes that by doing so, Syria could get back the Golan Heights that it lost to Israel, get financial assistance from pro-Western governments such as those in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, and UAE. It is possible that the latter faction was able to convince President Bashar Assad to assassinate Mughniyah as a good-will gesture to show its willingness to distance itself from extremist and terrorist forces. The Janus-faced regime in Damascus has a history of doing one thing while saying the opposite. It is also possible that the first faction killed Mughniyah to increase hostility with the U.S. and Israel and hence undermine the second faction. To what extent Bashar Assad is able to contain the independent behavior of each faction is hard to estimate.
What is curious is that the assassination occurred during a high-level private delegation led by Zbigniew Brzezinski (a foreign policy advisor to Sen. Barack Obama) and included Hassan Nemazee (a financial chairman for Sen. Hillary Clinton).[10] Brzezinski met with President Assad and issued the following statement to the Syrian press and said the talks with President Assad “dealt with recent regional developments, affirming that both sides have a common desire to achieve stability in the region, which would benefit both its people and the United States.”[11]
In addition, the assassination just days before the third anniversary of the assassination of Rafik Hariri, which has become a massive rallying event for pro-democracy and nationalist forces in Lebanon raises suspicion. By creating a counter-weight to the memory of Hariri, which in fact the Hezbollah did in deciding to hold memorial rally for Mughniyah on that very day, Syria and Hezbollah have benefited politically.
If tensions in Lebanon lead to a war between the Hezbollah and the Lebanese Army, there is a high likelihood of the disintegration of the Lebanese Army because about 15% of the Army is comprised of Shiites who are more loyal to their communal group and Hezbollah than to Lebanon and the Lebanese Army. A new civil war and disintegration of Lebanese Army would pave the way for the re-introduction of Syrian occupation and domination of Lebanon.
(3) The U.S. Government Killed Mughniyah
Various American officials from the FBI, the State Department, and the Pentagon have welcomed the assassination of Mughniyah with much delight.[12] American government has been actively pursuing Mughniyah for the killing of many of its citizens. It should not come as a surprise if the U.S. was successful in getting one of its most deadly and successful enemies.
(4) Fundamentalist Regime Ruling Iran Killed Mughniyah
The fundamentalist regime’s death squads have killed more Iranian dissidents abroad than any government has ever done against its opponents in history. In addition, the fundamentalist regime has a brutal history of killing non-violent pro-democracy activists, feminists, students, literary figures, religious converts inside Iran. Among the latter are the killings of Dariush Forouhar, Parvaneh Eskandari Forouhar, Pirooz Davani, Majid Sharif, Mohammad Mokhtari, Mohammad Jafar Pouyandeh, and Masoumeh Mossadegh (Dr. Mossadegh’s granddaughter). The torture, rape and murder of Zahra Kazemi, the death in prison of Akbar Mohammadi, the torture to death of Dr. Zahra Bani-Yaaghob, and the torture to death of Feizollah Mahdavi (a fourth year university student in law) are but the well-known examples. Regime’s death squads have even murdered non-political individuals who merely converted to another religion such as the murder of Mehdi Dibaj, who converted from Shia to Christianity. Regime death squads even killed several dozen innocent worshippers at Imam Reza shrine in order to blame it on one of the opposition groups. But the above-mentioned are Iranians who were not fundamentalist. Why would the fundamentalist regime kill one of its own?
There is actually a history of the regime killing its own if doing so served the interests of the leadership. For example, after more than 15,000 brave Iranians risked their lives and marched in the funeral of the slain democrat (Dariush Forouhar) and feminist (Parvaneh Eskandari-Forouhar) leaders, who had been murdered by the regime’s death squad, while the regime death squads were to murder literary figures (Davani, Sharif, Mokhtari, and Pouyandeh), the regime arrested Deputy Minister of Intelligence Saeed Imami. Soon afterwards, Imami died in prison. Imami’s death was announced as suicide by vajebi (a chemical uses to get rid of body hair). However, it is not likely that consumption of the small amount of vajebi given to prisoners would cause death. The widely held belief is that the regime killed its own assassin in order to protect higher-ups who had ordered the chain murders such as Minister of Intelligence Dorri Najaf-Abadi, former Minister of Intelligence Ali Fallahian, Ali Akbar Rafsanjani, and the Supreme Leader Khamanehi. Many also believe the same death squad had been used by Rafsanjani and Khamanehi to kill Ahmad Khomeini, the Ayatollah’s influential son (whose ambition to become Supreme Leader was thwarted by Rafsanjani and Khamanehi). The regime’s death squads operating abroad are formed of the most trusted members of the Qods Force of the Islamic Republic Guards Corps (IRGC).[13] Members of death squads selected for assassinations inside Iran are composed of the trusted members of the Ministry of Intelligence or the IRGC.
What benefit would accrue to the fundamentalist regime by killing Mughniyah, its best terrorist asset? In the past year, the Lebanese Hezbollah, Syrian regime and the fundamentalist regime had failed to overthrow the pro-democracy government in Lebanon despite repeated attempts. The more bellicose and warmongers in the regime such as Ahmadinejad may wish to provoke another war in Lebanon either against other Lebanese groups or between Israel and Hezbollah. These elements in the ruling oligarchy in Iran may think it would be a repeat of the summer 2006, with the expectation that it would change the balance of forces within Lebanon, or undermine the talks in Baghdad between American officials and fundamentalist officials. By assassinating Mughniyah and blaming it on Israel, these elements within the fundamentalist regime may wish to bring violence in Lebanon and/or between Israel and Hezbollah, which they think would benefit their faction in Iran.
It is clear that although such a war may be in the interest of the extremist faction in Iran, it is against the interest of the Iranian people and the national interests of Iran. The regime has a history of consistently choosing what is in the interests of the fundamentalist clique and undermining the interests of the Iranian people and the national interests of Iran. For example, taking American diplomats hostage and keeping them hostage were clearly against the interest of the Iranian people and the national interests of Iran, but Khomeini and his supporters took those actions because it helped them get rid of the non-fundamentalist elements and impose the highly unpopular and incredibly anti-democratic fundamentalist constitution on a reluctant public.
(5) Professional Assassin Killed Mughniyah
There is a possibility that Mughniyah’s assassination was carried out by a professional assassin or assassins for purely financial reasons. Some such groups such as former KGB elements have deep roots and close connections in Syria. The U.S. government had placed $25 million bounty on Mughniyah’s head and such a sum could have attracted professionals.
(6) Hezbollah Rivals Killed Mughniyah
The Lebanese Hezbollah was created by the fundamentalist regime and composed of Lebanese Shia who worshiped Khomeini and had no nationalist feelings toward their own homeland of Lebanon. Over the years, however, it has been reported that some grew a bit skeptical of the benefits of being a simple tool in the hands of the regime ruling Iran. Whether this change occurred after observing the ideological, political and moral bankruptcy of the fundamentalist regime in Iran or a realization that their future lies in living as Lebanese along other Lebanese is not germane to the subject of this article. It has been speculated that some Hezbollah leaders have had some changes in their mentalities. It is possible that due to some internal dispute, other members of Hezbollah decided to kill Mughniyah. For example, it is possible that Mughniyah wanted to start another war with Israel, but other members of the Hezbollah disagreed, and decided to kill Mughniyah. Or conversely, it is possible that the fundamentalist regime gave an order to Lebanese Hezbollah such as attacking Israel, an order with which Mughniyah opposed. In order to prevent an open split, the fundamentalist regime and elements within Hezbollah simply decided to eliminate Mughniyah.
(7) Mughniyah Faked His Own Death
There is a possibility that Mughniyah faked his death in order to disappear. This possibility has been suggested by CNN’s senior correspondent Jim Clancy who was stationed in Beirut in the 1980s and covered many terrorist attacks attributed to Mughniyah.[14]
Conclusion
From what is currently known, the main beneficiaries of the elimination of Mughniyah are Syrian regime, the Israeli government, and the U.S. government. Unless insiders reveal secret information, we may never know who killed Mughniyah. If the Syrian regime, or the fundamentalist regime ruling Iran, or the Hezbollah are involved, we would not know until one of the two regimes is overthrown and its secret archives opened to scholars and journalists. Time will tell, perhaps.
Gabriel Emile Eid is a senior at Sam Houston State University, double majoring in Political Science and Criminal Justice, with a minor in Arabic. He is specializing on the Middle East.
Fabia Bristow is a senior at Sam Houston State University, majoring in Political Science and Criminal Justice, minoring in Accounting and Arabic. She hopes to work for the UN or INTERPOL. She is currently the President of Alpha Phi Sigma, the national Criminal Justice honor society.
Masoud Kazemzadeh, Ph.D. is Associate Professor of Political Science at Sam Houston State University.
Endnotes
1. For a list of killings and operations attributed to Mughniyah see CNN Report: Reputed terrorist long sought by CIA killed in explosion. It is also alleged that he was close to and trained members of Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Muqtada al-Sadr’s Jeish al-Mahdi. Some reports that in 1975, Mughniyah was a personal body guard and trained assassin for Yasser Arafat seem highly unlikely. If Mughniyah was born in 1962, he was only 13 years old in 1975.
2. BBC: Syria 'to name Mughniyeh killer'.
3. Sheikh Afif al-Nablisy told Hezbollah’s al-Manar television “Any attack against the resistence (Lebanese Hezbollah) will be met with the resistence’s response. Eye for an eye, individual for an individual, leader for a leader.” Radio Farda, February 13, 2008, واکنش ایران و آمریکا به ترور فرمانده ارشد حزب الله.
4. See Hezbollah’s organizational chart at Wikipedia.
5. See Hezbollah. The work is by Magnus Ranstorp (1996).
Hizb'Allah in Lebanon: The Politics of the Western Hostage Crisis. St. Martin's Press. P. 45.
6. Michael Young, “The dilemmas of being an Iranian bullet,” The Daily Star, August 24, 2006.
7. To counter the notion of being subservient to a non-Arab country and leader, Lebanese Shiite supporters of the fundamentalist regime (with the help of the fundamentalist regime ruling Iran) argue that Khomeini was of Arab origins, his ancestors being from Mecca. In the following “documentary” produced by al-Manar in Lebanon and the regime in Iran and put on YouTube by www.aimislam.com which is a Shiite fundamentalist group supporter of the regime in Iran in Britain. See their documentary on youtube. At 3:55 minute, the video mentions that Khomeini “is of Arab origins, from the holy city of Mecca.” The propaganda video continues to repeatedly mention the Arab, Mecca, and Arabian peninsula origins of Khomeini more times (more than a dozen if one includes the pictorial images), to emphasize Khomeini’s Arab ethnicity. The unmistakable subtext being that Khomeini is not Persian, but rather Arab whose family was Arab and direct descent of the Prophet Mohammad and who happened to have moved to Iran to spread Islam. Thus, they are obeying and supporting an Arab descendent of the Prophet Mohammad who was ruling Iran. In other words, they are not supporting and obeying a non-Arab Iranian.
8. Deutsche Welle: لبنان: قدرت نمایی دولت و حزبالله.
9. Hassan Hashemian, “Terror Marmooztarin Shakhsiyat Kadr Rahbari Hezbollah Lobnan,” February 13, 2008, IranEmrooz: ترور مرموزترین شخصیت کادر رهبری حزبالله لبنان.
10. Eli Lake, “Obama Advisor Leads Delegation to Damascus,” The New York Sun, February 12, 2008, Obama Adviser Leads Delegation to Damascus; and Eli Lake, “Advisor to Clinton Meets With President of Syria,” The New York Sun, February 15, 2008, Adviser to Clinton Meets With President of Syria.
11. Lake, “Advisor to Clinton,” ibid.
12. CNN, “Report: Reputed terrorist long sought by CIA killed in explosion,” February 14, 2008.
13. Masoud Kazemzadeh, “God’s Assassins: The Lebanese Hezbollah and the Fundamentalist Regime Ruling Iran,” iranian.com (July 16, 2006)
14. See CNN: Clancy: Terror mastermind's deception cause for skepticism.
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Zion, thanks
by Abarmard on Wed Feb 20, 2008 05:40 PM PSTThanks for explanation. I will talk to them and see why they told me and tell them about your comment. I am certain that Israelis are living in a democracy as I have mentioned and can express their views freely. So what you say does make sense. I would like to know what they say and will let you know.
THE SYRIANS DID IT...WHY?
by JOHN CARPENTER III (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 05:10 PM PSTTHE LEBANESE GUY WAS TOO OLD AND USELESS. HE HASN'T DONE A "JOB" IN SEVERAL YEARS. HE BECAME A LIABILITY. HE WAS A RELIGIOUS GUY. THE SYRIANS ARE MARXIST BAATHISTS. WHEN YOU CAN'T USE HIM ANYMORE AND HE'S A DETRIMENT TO FOREIGN POLICY DISPOSE OF HIM LIKE A DISPOSIBLE RAZOR. THAT'S WHAT BASHAR ASSAD DID.
Abarmard
by Zion on Wed Feb 20, 2008 03:01 PM PSTWhat you say is very hard to believe for anyone who knows the situation in Israel. There are mainly two groups who leave Israel, it is either for financial reasons or it is because they can`t take the hectic and competative life there and the constant possibility of danger, of being blown up in buses or in coffe shops. In Israel there is news at ever hour and everyone listens to it on the hour every hour. It`s just a national habit.
There are of course Israelis who have problems with the policies of the government, there are even Israelis who have a problem with the existence of the state of Israel (I mean even among the Jews), either from far left or religious far right. However almost all of them share the a habit of taking full advantage of their Israeli citizenship and its security. They have no reason to leave Israel on that basis because Israel has probably the freest media in the world and the most open socity for political activism. There are even Israeli activists have made a career of volunteering to be the lawyers of the families of suicide bombers free of charge and all of this is legal. So although we can`t know for certain about any individual case, as I said before, what you claimed here is highly unlikely to say the least. Combined with the rest of your points, it becoems even less trustworthy, but as I say it is impossible to say something like this with certitude, and since you insist I`ll give you the benefit of a doubt. It might also be the case that youhave misudesrtood what they were saying. Israeli inner situation could be very confusing for outsiders at times. In any case it definitely can never be representative of the general Israeli and Jewish public.
Re: Lebanese
by Iranian- on Wed Feb 20, 2008 02:17 PM PSTI think you should re-read my previous comment and make sure you understand what I was refering to. I was not refering to this latest destruction of Lebanon by the Zionist entity (Israel). I was refering to the destruction Israel brought to the middle east and Lebanon almost 25 years ago.
Israel could have Lebanese Shia (even Hizballah) on their side, but their hate for everything Muslim and Arab is what they are paying for now.
Actually maybe it is better this way. Now the bigoted Zionist are confronting the Muslim world instead of the just the Arabs that they hated most.
To conclude
by Abarmard on Wed Feb 20, 2008 02:10 PM PSTAre you questioning my comment that my Iranian Jewish friends have left Israel because they were dissatisfied with the government?
Yes they were and that was the biggest reason that they left. They have no economical problems. Unlike what you think, they are many Israelis that share my friends’ sentiments. Is that really hard for you to believe? Interesting.
I am not playing anything with you or as you call it good cup bad cup. I actually have respect even for those who I disagree with but don't push your luck.
Iranian- I hate to break it
by Lebanese (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 01:31 PM PSTIranian-
I hate to break it to you that both Shia Lebanese , (except those hardcore Hizballahi) and Sunni Lebanese, Christians, Druze, Maronites, Awnist et al and, March 14th faction et al, are starting to see that Iran is being counter-productive and exploiting anti-Israli feeling in Lebanon for his own political and financial gains. Many fault Hassan Nassrallah for last year's war with Israel. His true colors are becoming more revealing day by day. He is both a stooge of Saudi Arabia and Iran.
I missed that one
by Zion on Wed Feb 20, 2008 01:21 PM PSTAnonymousIroont thanks for responding to it, I must have missed that ridiculous claim in Abarmard`s comment. It is amusing to see them trying naively to play good cop bad cop here together. :)
It is also interesting to see how every one of them seems to have no hesitation of making untrue claims continuously.
Mashty, thanks. Israel is a cool place, and as far as I am concerned there is no reason not to get along. I agree with what you say, but as you can see some here live under some funny delusions of grandeur that is being fed from the power sources in the Iranian regime. No harm in bringing their heads back to earth every once in a while. It is good for their mental health too.
Lebanon
by Iranian- on Wed Feb 20, 2008 01:13 PM PSTI don't know much about this guy Imad Mughniyah and according to this article I guess nobody really liked him.
I do know that Lebanon would have been still as it was before if Israel had not invaded and destroy it in 1970s and 1980s. So the answer to the Arabist people who hate Persians is that they should look at the arrogant state of Israel for its demise of Lebanon first, then start blaming the Iranians.
After the 1980s Israeli invasion of Lebanon, even the Lebanese Shia were supporting Israel because they were discriminated against by the Arabist Druze and other Arab Nationalist hate mongers. Unfortunately for Israel, the Israeli army mistreated the Shia like any other 'Muslim Arab' and made them into an enemy too. The Shia Lebanese are one enemy Israel would much rather be without.
Let's cool it all
by Mashty (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:53 PM PSTAll I hear now from every side is an empty slogans and Internet fist fighting. I bet all of us would be good friends if we were sitting in a coffee shop or a bar talking. So remember that we all are human and we don't have all the informations. Here is what we need to know:
-Whatever has happened to Israel, it is a country now that has citizens who are willing to respect the laws of the nations.
-IRI is not as strong as some perceive them to be. They feel threatened with any movements in or out.
-The less threat to IRI, the better of the possibilities of a change within the system or revolution.
-The terrorist groups such as Hezbollah are not going to stand for the IRI cause. Improbable.
-Israel should not fear Iran.
-US should not fear Iran
-Iran should fear both of them
-US and Israel are better possible allies to the Iranians than any Lebanese or Palestinian or Syrian.
-If IRI was not there, would any Iranian give a damn about Palestine?
-Israel has many internal issues and problems with the Palestinians, and that's for them to resolve
-Iran has many internal issues and that's for Iranians to resolve.
Zion and PC and Jamaleto and the rest, come on people, can we just get a long?
We are not the reason that all these issues are there, and we are probably not the solution either. So let's act like who we are, which is no one and talk normal with respect. We all are educated people , let's act like it.
Long live Peace and prosperity for all.
PS. Israel is a really cool country, I wish that one day we Iranians would be able to see it regardless of our religion.
Whoever or whatever was behind this "JUST" assassination
by Synonymous Anonymous (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:03 AM PSTshall continue with the others:
1)Ali Khamenei,
2)Rafsanjani,
3)Khatami,
4)Ahmadinejad,
5)Ebrahim Yazdi,
.
.
5,736,521) The last supporter of the Islamic republic of Mullahs.
Only then Iran can be Iran!?!?
God Bless America and Israel!
There are 10 million basiji
by wow (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:34 AM PSTThere are 10 million basiji who are waiting to enter Israel with whatever means
Very revealing admission by a Basiji.
I hope the guys at Dept. of Homeland Security are taking note of this.
The Iranian president/regime
by Lebanese (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:27 AM PSTThe Iranian president/regime is a friend that the Palestinian and Lebanese people don't need or deserve.
Posted by As'ad at 6:29 AM
Islamic Republic is hell bent on destroying Lebanon in his proxy war with the US. Enough of your hate-mongering and hypocrisy. The Lebanese and Palestinian people are sick of Safavids.
You Safavid Cowards will fight Israel to the last Arab. May God never forgive you.
//angryarab.blogspot.com/2008/02/iranian-pres...
Abarmard
by programmer craig on Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:16 AM PSTAre you even serious? You want me to see things from the point of view of the cretins in this thread? Jamaleto? Annoyingmouse? The others? I'd rather be dead, than be like them. Their opinions have absolutely no redeeming value whatsoever.
AnonymousIroont
by Jamaleto (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 09:57 AM PSTAnonymousIroont, Jamaleto eshgheh naa luti. So I guess you are pissed that someone has said something bad about your country Israel. Don't take it hard, Israeli government are bunch of cowards and they would've attack Iran if they could. They are shit scared because they know well that Iran will respond. I don't give a damn how my country will answer yours, but I know they do it in such a way that you will not be able to come back for more damage. You should not be so proud of Israeli military since they are American. Iranian military on the other hand my friend, is made in Iran and with borders closed or not, there is no scape for Israel. poof. All it takes is a little Shaikh Nasrola fart. lol
AnonymousIroont
by Annoyingmouse (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 09:41 AM PSTWhat I am hearing is blah blah blah blah blah...any thing else?
You are dismissed!
No Credibility...
by tinoush on Wed Feb 20, 2008 09:34 AM PSTStop deleting my comments!!!! I have copied it to a file and I will recheck/repost periodically.
No Credibility...
by tinoush on Wed Feb 20, 2008 09:16 AM PST1) Your sources are biased. CNN, BBC, Wikipedia (whose contents were shown to be edited by government/corporations), Eli Lake, these all have a track record of bias in favour of US foreign policy. Hich baghali nemigeh maste man torsheh...how about looking at some of the voices from the other side!? Iranians who act as drummer boys for non-Iranians, be they Occidental or Oriental, are the real problem of our country.
2) By the definition of "terrorism" as defined by US State Department, Bush and Co. are the world's foremost terrorists. Mughniyah was an unsavory character; however, he is far in the back of the line when it comes to carrying the torch of murder and destruction.
3) It will suit your argument to base it on philosophy rather than propaganda. Occam's Razor: All things being equal the simplest explanation is the most likely one. So what is the simplest explanation? That Iran/Syria/Lebanese killed one of their own risking reprisals and ultimately providing the excuse that Bush has been looking for to start another war. All the while doing the operation without a trace. Or that US/Israel carried out another assassination in long chain of assassinations?
Stop banging the drums. We're getting tired of it!
Dear Abarmard (and not so dear Jamaleto annoyinmouse)
by AnonymousIroont (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 09:08 AM PSTI have ready many of your comments and have stayed silent. Now, However, I must reply to one particular comment:
You State:
"I am in touch with a few Iranians who have left Israel because they disapproved of the regime and have told me that many Israelis are not happy with the government; but the policies are reflection of the extremists who hold the real power"
I am not aware of a single Iranian jew who left the "regime" because they disapproved it. The only thing they "disapproved" is the economic conditions and that is the main reason many left. Notwithstanding, There are over 300,000 Jews of Iranian descent living in Israel today.
as to "extrimists holding to power". What the hell are you talking about. These same "extremist, pulled out of Gaza, and the same "extremist, are negotiating with the PA for an establishment of a Palestinian state in the near Future. You Haji loving IRI supporters (and the IRI) does not like the idea of peace because it puts more pressure on the IRI if the Arabs and Israelis will reach peace.
Are we living in the same world or do you believe in the BS made up reality that the IRI is attempting to create in the region.
And as to Jamaleto and AnnoyingKososher mouse,
It is apparent that you have been brainwashed by the IRI propeganda machine. Israel will easily kick Iran's ass in a conventional battlefield scenario. Iran knows this. That is why they have to resort to unconventional tactics like basiji suicide bombers.
It remindes me a little of the Kamakazi style fighting. We all know what the US did to the Japanese. It seems that IRI is really pushing the buttons with its Israel cards these days out of desperation. You can be assured of massive IRI distruction if this goes to far. Israel, the US and the west will all kick Iran's ass in such a scenario. Iranians might play shatrang (chess)but all the top players in history have been from the west. You will be Kish o Maat in no time. If IRI starts something with Israel, you can rest assured that the west will get involved. That is why, the rational people in the world do not want some basiji idiots with nukes in their hands.
Zion
by Annoyingmouse (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 08:51 AM PSTI didn’t think so. I’ve seen your type a lot. A wannabe type. A man with an ego much greater than his willpower. A lazy ass that has nothing to do just live off of the society’s shoulder. A computerized philosopher an internet intellect, a cyber warrior, and the list goes on. Get out kid take a fresh air it might change you attitude.
Zion
by Annoyingmouse (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 08:39 AM PSTIn case you've never lived in the US what you said is a death threat. That's the message you wanted to convey to me?
Zion
by Annoyingmouse (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 08:29 AM PSTYou got rational now? After threatening us to shut our voices by your “highly skilled assassins”. Come on! How long you think you can hang on to this new posture? WOOOO...you are scary...
Basij
by Zion on Wed Feb 20, 2008 08:32 AM PSTThe kind of illusions you are living under are precisely the type that could potentially endanger the lives of Iranians, Israelis and everyone else in the region. You have simply no chance against Israel. The only reason Hizballah still exists is because Israel is a rational entity that calculates the pros and cons of every move beforehand. The cost of annihilating Hizballah is more than its benefits...yet. But things can change, if Israel ever feels its very existence is seriously at stake, then there cost/benefit balance will be completely different and if Israel ever, God forbid, unleashes her full power your side will cease to exist as a whole. All the efforts are done for this never to happen, but lunatic illusions like the ones you have could stir us all to the unthinkable. Grow up and talk and act as a rational entity. Israel will survive under any scenario, though at a tragically high price in the worst case, you won`t. I recommend you read this, it might help you come in touch with reality:
//www.upi.com/International_Security/Emerging...
My LittleAnnoyingMouse, I am as cool as ever. Just thought you needed some reminding, for your own sake. You were nice and funny last time, try not to mess it up. I am not trying to be scary, I am merely stating facts that you are dangerously ignorant of. It is always a good idea to help everyone know where they stand. Safer that way for all of us. Don`t you think so?
Zion
by Annoyingmouse (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 08:08 AM PSTYou said, "It goes way beyond kicking your ass, nothing will be left of you to be kicked at anywhere. So behave, OK?"
I see you lost your cool. I'd like to know if you dare to say that in my face in person! You are as I said a hallow corps. But sadly havn't learned your lessons that you can't talk to an Iranian from a forceful point of view. You are mentaly bankrupt. I told you come with your masters didn't I? Why didn't you listen. Now you want to send your masters to me? Man! What a fucking hallow bluff! How typical!
Abarmard
by Zion on Wed Feb 20, 2008 08:05 AM PSTThere is no basis in your argument that to be taken seriously I have to come midway and bash Israel. There is no logical link between the need to find something wrong with Israel and having a meaningful debate in an Iranian website. Israel, like any other society has faults of its own, but it is no ways even comparable with the Islamic regime in Iran and any hint of moral equivalency or comparison is a petty attempt to deny reality.
I have mentioned some of the valid criticism of Israel in another comment thread back in early january. I don`t criticize aspects of Israel here because it has no relevance to the kinds of discussions and attacks I see here. Attacks on Israel that are directed towards her very existence, either directly or by demanding apology for justified and necessary acts of self preservation and defense. I also have to disagree with you about American news and media. The American news and reporting is based on American cultural background. I have come to notice that many Iranians come with a different set of misunderstandings and misinformation and bias that are rarely addressed in Western media reporting or analysis of Israel. Therefore there is a need, in my opinion, to respond to and address these specific package of unresolved issues in a website like this.
Zion
by Basiji (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 07:37 AM PSTActually I disagree with you. Israel couldn't do anything to Hezbollah while distroying the entire southern and partially rest of the country. Israel has a few problem fighting against Iran:
1-The Iranian military is not the same as Israeli's neighboring countries' military. They know how to play chess!
2-The Attack plan of the Iranian military is developed based on years and years studying the war with Iraq and Israeli's style.
3-Israel unlike Iraq, can't hit and run. Once hit, the war begins and Iran has the means to answer
4-If Israel uses the Nuke, Iran will have an excuse to finish Israel off for good.
5-The size and population density is what is going against Israel in a possible attack to Iran
6-There are 10 million basiji who are waiting to enter Israel with whatever means
And Finally:
7-If Israel could, Israel would. That's as simple as it gets.
P Crage- Zion- Jamaleto and others- A Summary
by Abarmard on Wed Feb 20, 2008 07:25 AM PSTI don't bash Zion because what he perceives to be his God given right to have Israel as his land. That's an argument that does not fit this comment space. I also disagree with Jamaleto who from his anger torpedoed Zion and P Craig. I do however disapprove of those who are willing to openly criticize a regime that is not theirs but won’t try to see another view. That is sad. Let's say that these two are not Iranians, they don't seem to have come here to see another version of their thought process but to give their version as a fact to the rest of us. They should be aware that most of us do hear all that they say on the regular basis on the US news.
I am in touch with a few Iranians who have left Israel because they disapproved of the regime and have told me that many Israelis are not happy with the government; but the policies are reflection of the extremists who hold the real power. Although Israel is a Democratic State, but there are many similarities that one can find with Iran. Main possible reason could be that both countries are based on religion. Someone had commented that they agree IRI is not a good regime, but can Zion agree that Israeli government is not good (at least at times)? Or can he find any problems with the regime? He hasn’t answer and to me it seems that he totally agrees with the current system and behavior or Israeli government. That would make Zion’s arguments against IRI suspicious.
P Craig also is one sided that can’t imagine his government do anything wrong. He fails to see the groups that he has problems with as a reactionary but just there to get him! Kind of silly. Yet we do see all these being preached on the daily basis on the news channels. One would expect an intelligent person to go a bit beyond what he hears on the news channels from his own country.
America according to P Craig has every right to diddle her way around the globe and play around with the systems and lives of the citizens. Many reactionary groups have risen in the recent years because of these policies. Right or wrong, that’s not my argument here. Those being reactionary are my argument. P Craig must realize that in order to be taken more seriously.
Finally, Iranians culturally are for those who are underdog and it’s natural to see many Iranians to stand for the Palestinian cause while it really has no effect on their own lives. The US based Iraq war with Iran has changed the attitude of Iranians in general towards using force to make a point. Yet Iranians are most pro western society that one could find in the Middle East. The wrong policies implemented by the US administration have caused the IRI to become stronger and therefore once again Iranians are feeling the wrong doing of American government against their liberties. IRI certainly has benefited from that. To forget all the facts and just look at a image that is presented with echo over echo on the news channels about the political scene in the Middle East leaves no room for a intelligent discussion and ends up with cursing and “yelling” words over one another.
I have noticed that Zion has good points, but since he is not willing to travel half way to meet his “opponent”, his arguments are ineffective. P Craig is not too different either.
Long live Iran.
Don`t assume too much
by Zion on Wed Feb 20, 2008 07:26 AM PSTA little advice for you Marjan. Confusing an act of respect and of mutual understanding with fear is a big mistake. If you can`t separate the two, it only means you are confessing to the fact that you are capable only of understanding the language of force, as do cattle, and that you deserve nothing else. Is that what you are trying to prove here?
Jamaleto, MyLittleAnnoyedMouse and Marjan, Let me also correct a misunderstanding here. When I talk about Iran, I mean a free Iran in the future. There is no reason for you to assume you`ll be part of that, so what I say here has hardly anything to do with you.
I wouldn`t get carried away and brag about ass kicking and stuff like that either if I were you. There is surely no need to remind you what Israel can do to the likes of you. It goes way beyond kicking your ass, nothing will be left of you to be kicked at anywhere. So behave, OK?
Correction
by Annoyingmouse (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 06:12 AM PSTI don't think the author of this article, not his students, is any better than these guys. I scanned through his CV and he's practically never been in Iran and he’s been cited left and right by bunch of neocons as an Iranian expert. An Iranian expert that neither looks like an Iranian nor ever been in Iran before. How odd is that. But the funny part is they still call themsleves academics while they have no clue about the subject they are trting to analyze. How pathetic is that?
Jamaleto,
by Annoyingmouse (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 06:08 AM PSTI don't think the autor of this article, not his students, is any better than these guys. I scanned through his CV and he's pratcially never been in Iran and his been cited left and right by bunch of neocons as an Iranian expert. An Iranian expert that neither looks like an Iranian nor ever been in Iran before.
Jamaleto, Marjan
by Annoyingmouse (not verified) on Wed Feb 20, 2008 05:48 AM PSTmamnoon az babate poshteebanitoon.