MOUSAVI

What are you guys, some of

What are you guys, some of you talking about, when making a mention of small changes? what small changes? and By the "Liberal" part of this system?
Are we talking about a Real liberal branch, or a religious one?

I agree with farhad kashani. the root of the problem is the way these leaders look at the world, trying to apply their ideaology to everything that seems to be an issue.
Some of you suggest that we are still in the beginning of the process, or like a fellow had said in another thread, 30 years are baby years!! Come on. They have not only laid a solid foundation for their agenda, It has begunevolving into a format that has continued to ravage our economy, our social values and the spirit of our people in the most wicked manner.

recommending referendum or revision of the constitution is a band-aid solution to a more fundamental problem.

Majid Agha

bravo! zabanat ra az "door" meeboosam! :o)

Dariush, What do you mean

Dariush,

What do you mean by "Iran's rights"? Which Iran, the country? The civilization? The government? the People? Or all of the above? Or some of the above? Make it clear.

Also, which do you think its more important: Iranian people's right to free speech, free press, social freedoms and representative government, or developing ALLEGED "peaceful" nuclear energy?

Mammad,   I do not

Mammad,

I do not have preconceived notion, I just read between the lines. Two different things. As I’ve said before, there is nothing with holding any political belief, after all, it’s not us but rather you guys who label people immediately with negative terms to assassinate their character. You have called me all kinds of things. Remember?

What exactly are you saying about Mousavi? He has good intentions? He can make a difference? Let’s say he’s a bit less “Fascist” than the rest of them, which I think he is just slightly less Fascist, so what? As closed and as controlled this regime is, sometimes they “slip”, as they did with Khatami, but they gained their ground back. This is a totalitarian regime. This is the nature of the beast. Try to look at the bigger picture.

Even if we accept the argument that Mousavi has good intentions, the regime won’t let him. This is a Mafia style regime. It is irreformable. Even if they were and are some who tried to make a difference (and they were some, no denying in that), the overall structure of the regime won’t allow it. That's why we are asking for the removal of the regime, not spending time, energy, life and resources trying to see if maybe somehow someone can make a change. This regime is unfixable because of its ideology, and this is where we differ sharply. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you tend to downplay the role of ideology in IRIs policies and rhetoric, but I don’t. Sure, some of IRI are not ideological, but again, they can’t make changes. And the ideology I’m talking about its not just Islamic fundamentalism, its how they look at the world. They are the most conservative, less educated, most thuggish elements of Iranian society. Try to look at the world from they’re point of view. You might justify IRIs actions using your own worldview, for example, colonial intervention in Iran by Russia and England and things like that, but they don’t. They might say they do, but even if Russia and U.K “apologize” and say “goh khordam” a million times and compensate Iran, the regime will not change what it pursues. Nothing will change, significantly, in Iran, cause they have other goals in mind. Goals that you’re not willing to understand.

Yes, the VAST MAJORITY OF IRANIANS do want to boycott the “selections” and the reason is that the election legitimizes the regime. It’s not rocket science!!! Since IRIs “selection” process is a big comic sham, why legitimize it by participating in it?

Iran's rigged elections

"In order to exercise their right to political participation and self-‎determination, the Iranian people need “free elections” and “the transfer of power”. ‎Nowadays, when rulers cheat in elections, the opposition and the people pour into the ‎streets and force the state to retreat. But when there are rigged elections in Iran, a ‎powerful man like former President Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani who feels hard done by ‎can do little more than to say, ‘I refer my plaint to God.’ And former Majlis Speaker ‎Mehdi Karrubi merely resigns from the Expediency Council.‎ "

//www.iran-today.org/index.php?/news/more/136...

farrad02

Right on! Have we met before?

The "coup" thing is what I have always suspected but no proof. I'd appreciate a couple of solid references to what was "widely reported". Karoobi's remarks right after Ahmadinejad's "electoral victory" that he went to bed thinking he might be one and he woke up to learn Ahmadinejad had come from way behind and "won", also implied some hanky panky without naming names.

Can you please cite some of the sources that discussed those events? Sorry, but Nourizadeh is not on my list of credible commentators.  

To Ostaad: you agree with what?

This is what Aabarmard said:

"As mentioned before, the issue here is not the gigantic jump towards change but small breathing rooms that will be created by a softer, more liberal part of the system."

And you say Velayat e Faghih has to go?!!!!!!!

You're 180 degrees apart.

The riddle I always wanted to unravel

Abarmad, I agree with you regarding the rigged elections in Iran. I consider Ahmadinejad as the mouth-piece of Iran's nascent military-industrial complex, and the other guy(s) as stand-ins for the "technocrats", who make up the main factions of Iran's current political establishment.

What I really want to know is who "runs the show" if it's not the "Rahbar" of the Velayat? You pointed out in your post but left me hanging and wondering if not him then who.

To Majid and others, who consider the Velayat-e Fagheeh (faseeh) as the bedrock reason of IRI's problems, you're spot on. The Velayat has to go and Iran's constitution needs to be revised through amendments or holding a referendum. 

To: Abarmard - Ahmadinejad's election was a coup!

Even if we accept your assessment that the "system" doesn't need to cheat becase whoever gets to the final round has been vetted and filtered already, but experience shows (as recently as Ahmadinejad's election 4 years ago) that factions within the system cheat! The Basijis and Sepah cheated big time to bring Ahmadinejad and the Basij and Sepah sardars into power.

And you're right about the fact that Khanemeni is not as powerful as people think!

In Iran many insiders refer to the win of Ahmadinejad 4 years ago as a quiet coup. It is well known that Khamenei and many religious leaders in Ghom had settled and agreed on Ghalibaf (former mayour and police chief) as the president after Khatami. But the night before the first round of the election, Khamenei's son (Mojtaba) and several Basiji and Sepahi generals had a surprise visit with Khamenei to give him the new direction and the fact that Ahmadinejad will be the next president! It is widely reported that the night in question some insiders had leaked the news of the surprise meeting to Rafsanjani as being a national security related meeting. So, Rafsanjani didn't want to be left out and rushed over to Khamenei's Beit (house) to attend that meeting, pulling his own surprise. But reportedly, Mojtaba (Rahbar's Son) and others lied to Rafsanjani's assistants and turned them away saying there was no meeting going on!!

The above events have been confirmed by several sources, including Dr. Nourizadeh who discussed these events in detail back then!

So, if you want to attend these elections, by all means! Do it for your own reasons. But don't do it becuase they are even marginally democratic or that they can change anything, because they won't!

Any kind of positive change in that system has to be forced down their throats by a strong man; albeit and posiibly someone from within the system!

My two cents

I don't agree, although this is a thought to consider. The most western critics of the Iranian system agree that the results is not known. Here is why:

You can be certain that those who the system sees as a threat in any way or form won't even stand a chance to be a candidate, therefore after the filtering process, it's the matter of choice of the people. To the system however, they will be a representative of a different branches of power within the system. Khamenei, unlike what you might think, does not run the show.

Ahmadinejad or Mousavi won't weaken the powers within the Islamic Republic and either one would be sufficient. There is no need for the system to actually "cheat" in a voting process that either way comes out a winner. You may argue that many democratic countries apply the same method to bring up a candidate.

As mentioned before, the issue here is not the gigantic jump towards change but small breathing rooms that will be created by a softer, more liberal part of the system. 

Actually as of now, i believe that Ahmadinejad is ahead because he enjoyed a high oil prices that helped him in increasing the welfare for the poor. there are many economically weak in Iran that have benefited from his programs and would perhaps vote for him to continue receiving those aids. Hope not.

Khameneii will select either Mousavi or Mohsen Rezai

I believe mullahs including the head vampire, Khameneii are very much worried about the survival of their Islamist regime, their ill-acquired positions, easily gained astronomical wealth and assets.

They are also smart enough to beome quite pragmatic and mellow down when they find it necessary to protect their so called "accomplishments" in the last 30 years, therefore there is a very good chance that either Mousavi or Mohsen Rezaii (if nobody else enters the game until the June dog and pony show) will be selected by Khameneii & Co. to please America and the world which are quite fed up with Mahmoud.

People's participation or non-participation in my opinion is quite irrelevant. It might add a little zest to the whole show.

Dear Majid

I agree with you in the overall thinking but what we are talking about here are very small steps. Small for us, but for a girl in Iran that won't get as harassed by the so called Moral Police is as good as it gets (at least for now). Similarly we witnessed the same social openness during the Khatami era. As time passes, it's better to have those who at least pretend to respect the idea of Rights and freedom than those who proudly stand in the conservative camp.

It's more like describing a great feast to a hungry man who will be happy with a piece of a dry bread just to survive another day.

Sometimes small steps are better than jumps or standing still.

Dr. Strangelove

You can call all those who know what you stand for “imbecile”, “smart a...”, “idiot”, “from the fringe of the fringe” and whole lot more, but rest assured it will not make a bit of difference.

You might be a legend in your own mind, in the real world you are an Islamist who along with a handful of others are desperately trying to prop up your failed Islamist regime. You do it through attempts at having your Islamist utopia empowered with nuke and as you’ve done with the author of this article by attacking all those who expose your Islamist republic.

Your guru and you were very active during past “election” shows of your Islamist republic. It stands to reason you’ll continue following the standing order in this cycle of Islamist “election show” as well.  Khodeti Haji! 

Fred & Farhad kashani

I have read most of Mammad's postings. He has always been defending Iran's rights and condemning IRI's wrong doings.
On the other hand, you are against Iran's rights. You just throw an IRI in there to avoid suspicion. We know where you come from. If IRI was hundred times worse, but defending your country Israel, you wouldn't have said a word.

FK

Apparently you have a problem reading people's writings, but have no problem reading their mind!

I stated clearly and without any if, but, etc., that there were killing fields in Iran in the 1980s, including in 1988. Now, how you considered that as an "apology" for the IRI is beyond my comprehension. You have a preconceived notion about whatever I say, similar to that of that imbecile idiot F, who in his subatomic world is under the illusion that he is challenging and exposing me!!

All I said was, the PM in the 1980, just like the president now, is not in charge of making those decisions. You can say this is a useless position, and that is fine with me, because I agree with it. One may say, when Mousavi learned about it, what did he do? At that time, the IRI's Constitution was being revised. In the revisions the post of the PM was eliminated. So, the guy was on his way out, and stayed out of politics for 20 years.

Some smart a.. said that Mousavi was so bad that the IRI eliminated the post of PM. That is a contradiction in the man's belief. Because if this is true, that means that the right wing actually cares about bad and good, competent and incompetent. I, "the apologist" for the IRI according to you, do not believe that the right wing cares. They only care about "khodi" and "gheyr-e khodi."

That comment also goes to show how deep is the understanding of the smart a.. of what is going on in Iran. The elimination of the PM Post was the result of the attempt of the right wing of the IRI to concentrate more of the power in the hands of the Faghih, not because Mousavi was so bad. In other words, the question of whether Mousavi was bad or good has nothing to do with the elimination of the PM post.

Where or when did I promte the election or Mousavi? Show me. Give the link to my comment.

Who is "you guys?" I am not with anybody, and express my opinion, and only mine. At least so far, I have not said a word whether people should vote or not, or promoted Mousavi or anybody. I intentionally made no comment on David ET's article on elections in which he urged people to vote because, at this point, I have no position.

There was no comparison between the elections in Iran and the US. The comparison was between the RHETORIC. Hello! Can you read, master-know-everything, or should I send you a reader or tutor?

If Mousavi or anyone else is not willing or able to make any change, then why is there such great sensitivity about voting or not voting? People in Iran will do what they want. I doubt that they care about what we - those who live outside of Iran - believe or say. They will make the decision based on their own assessment of the situation. So, why do you care about such an insignificant voting about such an insignificant position?

And who are "we" that call for boycot? You and who? "The vast majority of Iranians?"

Yes, anyone, including those from the fringe of the fringe (like yourself), who agrees with you is a great intellectual. I know that! Do not bother emphasizing it!

Mammad

I tend to agree with me

I tend to agree with me mehran.
I don't understand the notion of a president or vice president wanting to run again, when they had the chance to fix the problems for four years and couldn't. As hard as it may be; a president should take charge and do not allow some groups or individuals do as they wish. He/She should bring justice.

It is clear that this is more of a selection than election. we do have many who can stand for Iran's rights as Ahmadinejad does and still respect human rights at the same time to every single Iranians regardless of their color, beliefs, gender and social status, like Dr. Mossadegh. This will just make Iran a stronger and better country, but first they must be able to become candidate, otherwise this situation will never change.

Selection might change if people reasonably and carefully choose their own candidates and advertise peacefully.
Not necessarily, but perhaps there is a reason why attorneys make a better president. It is about common sense and rule of law.

Mammad,   Here you go

Mammad,

Here you go again doing your ranting in order to justify and apologize for IRI’s crimes against humanity!!

1-     First off, the difference between this Islamo Leftist Mousavi and Montazeri is that the latter lost his position and almost his life in protest to the killing under Khomeini, and those protests weren’t ONLY over that one phase of mass murder that IRI has committed. Second, and relating to the first, lets say Mousavi didn’t know about those killings, what about the rest? Do you really think we Iranians are stupid or have forgotten?? We will never forget. Do you honestly think that this attempt of re-writing the horrific history of IRI’s reign in our country will succeed? What did Mousavi did about all the other mass murders and imprisonments and ….? Third, if he is powerless, which we all know he is because his position is nothing but a buffer between Khamenei and the rest of the world to make look as Iran is a “republic”!!, then, why do you guys promote for the upcoming “selections”??

2-     Absurd and outrageous comparison! Simply outrageous to compare a democratically free election which is a model for the world, to a big “kheyme shab baazi” which is an insult to the definition of “election”. Furthermore, can Mousavi do anything about Khamenei, the top person in the country? Obama campaigned and said he will change Bush’s policies, (which we now know he adopted many of them cause they were the right policies), would Mousavi be able to change any of Khamenei’s policies?

3-     Every Fascist regime adapts differently to circumstances around it. USSR did it, China did it, Cuba does it with Raul..IRI is not an exception. The nature of the regime remains the same. It depends on the situation. Mousavi is not able/not willing to make changes.

4-     Don’t say “if”, IRI constitution, IRI propaganda machine, IRI government structure, everything, does in fact say that Khamenei is the dictator and has the first and last word. What we’re saying is boycott this sham, this insult to the democratic process, do not legitimize the regime.

Mr noghrekar is a great Iranian intellectual. We need more like him to speak out, for the sake of our country. I always go back to what I said before, if we don’t hear objection from IRI apologists like you, then we suspect what we say is wrong, if we do hear objection, we know we’re right!! So, you criticizing a great thinker like him will only enforce the belief that he is right on the money.

To: Majid jan

زدی تو خال مطلب مجید جون. خانه از پای بست ویران است داداش! همه مون و همه شون میدونند و میدونیم که مشگل در کجا و از چه کسی آب میخوره.بقیه مسایل و بحث ها همه کوس شعره!  تا ولایت وقیه پشتمونه و دو دستی شونه هامون رو گرفته باید چند وقت یه بار ما تحتمون پانسمان بشه و درد بواسیر هم که البته!

ابر مرد...........داستان «میخ طویلهء قُمی» رو شنیدی ؟

رأی بدیم یا نه؟

یکنفر در شهر قم خونه ای رو که مثلاً یک میلیون می ارزید میگذاره برای فروش بقیمت فقط صد هزار تومن!! به یک شرط..................
                                                                   ******************************

..............« خریدار متعهد میشود که الی الابد حق نصب یک میخ در هر مکانی از خانه و حق استفاده از آن را بهر نوع از انحاء برای فروشنده محفوظ داشته و در صورت انصراف از این شرط خانهء فوق الذکربطور رایگان در اختیار مجدد فروشنده قرار خواهد گرفت».......!!

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یک هفته بعد از معامله فروشنده پیداش شد و میخ مورد توافق طبق قرارداد رو درست در مرکز خونه به دیوار کوبید و رفت تا هفتهء بعد.......

هر دو یا سه هفته یکبار فروشنده برگشت با جسد متعفن یک سگ مرده! و «طبق قرارداد» اون رو از میخ مورد نظر آویخت.....«از حق مورد توافق در قرار داد استفاده کرد» ............

بمحض اینکه خریدار اعتراض میکرد فروشنده میگفت.....«هر کس که ناراضی ست بیاد پاسپورتش رو بگیره و از  [خونه ش] بره بیرون»

و یا.............«بجهنم..........برَن به جهنم این مغز های طاغوتی.......ما اصلاً نیاز به این مفسدین نداریم»

تا زمانیکه سایه منحوس این میخ طویله قمی (گاهی ظل الله ...گاهی آیت الله) بر سر ایران باشه هیچ فرقی نمیکنه به کی رأی بدیم!

خانه از پای بست ویران است.......اونوقت ما اینجا بحث میکنیم که کدوم یکی با ملاحظه تر و کم درد تر  ترتیب ما رو میده؟؟

میدونی به کی باید رأی داد؟............به اونی که اونقدر بیضتین داشته باشه که بساط این شوی یکنفره رو بهم بریزه!

تا اونوقت..........کی سگ کی باشه که بتونه خلاف ارادهء سید علی گدا عرض اندام کنه؟

What is the final message?

Not vote for him and let Ahmadinejad win? 

I would have liked to see an ending to this emotional piece. Since there is an election, what would be the view of this author about voting?

I believe that the author believes on non participation as a fight against the system. I unfortunately do not see the highest result and benefit for the Iranians in that route. 

Another criminal

He is another criminal among the whole gang of low life criminals that have taken the country by hostage. He should be tried in fair court (unlike kangouro courts of IRI) and answer for his conducts.

Ph D ??

Obama also has a but nobody talk abut it bacause president has normaly such personality that a PhD dose not add any thing.

لعاب چی باشی‌

آنها خودشان میخواهند برای ولایت اعظم لعاب چی باشی‌ انتخاب کنند مساله به ما مربوط نمی شود از خودش به پرسند.

عنتر و لوطی‌ا

من همیشه فکر می‌کردم چرا لب‌های همه وزرا باید مثل کس خر آویزان باشد حالا فهمیدم. آنها رابطه لوطی و عنتر را به وجود می‌‌آورند.

اینجا یک نقطه

اینجا یک نقطه ظریفی است که باید با ان اشاره شود. نکته این است:

اگر موسوی از قتلهایه دست جمعیی اطلأع نداشت پس بسیار بی‌عرضه بوده و مسولیت‌اش رو نمیدانسته. اگر هم میدانسته چه خبر است و کاری نکرده، آن دیگر عذر بد تر از گناه است. حقیقت این است که او مترسکی بیش نبود. از ان گذشته کسی ادعا نکرد که میر حسین خودش طناب دار به گردن آن شهیدان آزادی انداخت، هیتلر هم با دست خودش هیچ یهودی رو نکشت "اما" این سردمداران "مسئول" شناخته میشوند. موسوی باید این رو میفهمید که نفهمید. برای خاطر آرامش مردم ببریدش و بگذاریدش توی همون فریزری که تا ۲۰ سال پیش توش بوده.

Dr. Strangelove

Like night follows day, the Islamist Doc is to make an appearance whenever his Islamist regime is to be defended.

The Islamists mass killings of 1988 or as the Islamist nuke lover puts it a’ la Cambodia “the killing fields”  had nothing to do with the most senior executive of the Islamist regime at the time. The said executive, the Prime Minister no less, so happens to be the Islamist knight in shining armor for the Islamist nuke lover’s faction.

Then the Islamist Doc does a usual Islamist demagogic analogy and compares Obama with his Islamist knight and then concludes since Obama is not here to save the U.S. the same applies to his knight who is not there to save the Islamist republic. 

 The Islamist nuke lover’s knight is constantly talking about returning to the original precepts of the Islamist revolution. If one were cheeky enough to ask does it entail the return of the “killing fields” that took place literally under his nose and legal responsibility?  The insolent questioner must be satisfied with the recent ruling issued by the Islamist Doc.

The ruling specifically addresses this question absolving the Islamist Knight of all responsibility.  Ergo, in theory and practice the “killing fields” might happen again, but Doc’s knight will remain ignorant of it and therefore his innocence remains intact.

The upshot is that the nuke lover ridicules the impudent writer of the offending article with adjectives that are spot on his own Islamist M.O. 

Incoherent Exaggerations

1. The idea that Mousavi is partly responsible for the killing fields of 1988 or earlier - true crimes against humanity - is ridiculous. First, because such issues have never been decided by the President or the PM. Second, few people knew about the killings until some time after the killings had ended, and there is no evidence that Mousavi was one of them. Even Ayatollah Montazeri did not know about it for quite some time. 

2. The idea that just because the reformist groups have announced their support for Mousavi to save the "nezaam" is absurd, to put it extremely politely. When Obama was running, he repeatedly spoke about saving the US from 8 destructive years of Bush. So, does that mean that Obama was trying to save the US, or that get rid of a war criminal and incompetent president?

3. The idea that just because Mousavi has talked about returning to "pure Mohammadi Islam" means returning to execution, jailing of dissidents, corruption, etc, is truly absurd. I thought that one thing that most people agree on is that Ahmadinejad is already doing these. If so, then what return? If not, then what the heck are you talking about?

4. If the last word on everything is by Ayatollah Khamenei, then why is the author screaming about possible election of Mousavi, or anybody else for that matter, and its implications? By externsion, if the last word was said by Ayatollah Khomeinin when he was living, then why blame Mousavi for something for which there is no evidence that he was even aware of, at least when the planning was being made and the initial phase took place?

This article is pure and sheer slogan, not very constructive, and totally incoherent. I fully understand the emotional connections that some people make between anybody who was somebody in the 1980s and the killings. Those were crimes against humanity, but the people who were responsible for them are either dead (Ayatollah Khomeini and his son Ahmad who played an important role in it), or are in the judiciary (Raeisi and Pourmohammad).

Mammad

Mr. mnoughrehkar, Thank

Mr. mnoughrehkar,

Thank you for another great article. Please keep writing and enlightening us.

These "selections" of Khamenei's clowns (i.e so called "president") to fool the world to think there is a "republic" is an old trick that has lost its effectiveness.

Khamenei is the dictator, but the dfference between him and other dictators is that he has "buffers", like a godfather. He orders everything, but he's always in hiding and in obscurity.   

IRI is foolin no one!

Me Mehran

دقیقاً............دمت گرم!

اگر کارنامه اش در پست نخست وزیری اونقدر درخشان  بود که اون مقام رو بکلی حذف کردند باید ایندفعه بهش رأی داد تا شاید به حول و قوّه الهی همچین ترکمون بزنه که ایندفه مقام «ریاست جمهوری» هم بره تو مبال، با یه سیفون پشت بندش، و .................دورهء بعد انتخابش میکنیم برای ریاست شورای نگهبان.....و بعد............ مقام شامخ رهبری!!

Fair Question?

There are many red lines, the Iranian press cannot cross.

One is to mention the massacre of 1988.

If you are voting for him, would you not like some reporter ask him about that disaster:

 Where he was, if he had a role in it, did he support, or oppose it at the time, and what he thinks of it now.

That answer, I believe,  would shed some light on what Moussavi's character is all about, don't you think?