WOMEN

Dear "LalehGillani",

You don´t how I felt when I watched these clips, I don´t have any words to describe it ... I hope this comes to an end one day.

The Measure of a Man

MiNeum71: I have been to Afghanistan and seen the suffering of these women in person. It was as if I was watching a horror movie replayed again and again. And all along, I wondered where the men were… Is there a real man left in Afghanistan?

Muslim men measure their manhood by the amount of “control” they can exert on helpless women.

Little they know that the measure of a man is his chivalry... Nothing more… Nothing less…

Enjoy

Trapped in a Shi'a or Sunni world

araman2: Are Shi'a believers Muslims? Do Sunnis represent the true Islam? Who is an imposter and who is the real thing? These are centuries-old questions that have plagued the world of Islam since the Prophet’s death. No one can claim to know the right answer. No one has successfully convinced the other camp. The chasm remains intact to this day…

Instead, I prefer to disassociate myself from either camp and go to the source, to the holy book and to the Hadith.

Shi'a believers have their own collection of Hadith, the most prominent one being the Hadith of the Cloak. This narrative has given birth to the infallibility of Imams and their representatives on earth. Hence, we are at this state of affairs today: A Supreme Leader who has absolute authority over all Muslims and the fate of non-believers.

On the other hand, the Sunni world isn’t much to be desired either. Sunni believers have built the most powerful Sunni government in the world, Saudi Arabia, trampling over the women who give birth to them and their sons. Public executions and stoning of Saudi women is a normal and natural occurrence in the Kingdom.

Shi'a and Sunni rulers alike drive their powers from Islamic jurisprudence. Muslim scholars interpret the Sunnah (Shari'ah and madh'habs) to sustain these rulers.

The rest of us are trapped in a Shi'a or Sunni world…

Dear Laleh. I appreciate

Dear Laleh.

I appreciate your kindness, and honesty.BUT: ?

"The holy book, Quran, together with the collection of Hadith (narratives) is the driving force behind Shi'a".

This was a mistake os your lack of Knowledge?

The above is called "Sunni", by "Shia", but they themselves called "Muslim".Because it is a "Hadith" from Prophet who says" I leave you two things to follow" Quran and my Sunnah (Manner).

Shia is evolved based on "Emotion". ( being victim, Hate, etc...) these have been rebelloius groups against the establishments ;" it shaped as 4 Imam, 6 Imami, 7 Imami, 12, and 16... and so on, To justify their act,.( remember Ismaillits and Nezam al mulk). they manipulated histirical events. such as Ali was the right person, etc...
Shia do not care much about Quran, does not regard "hadith" (which by the way the most reliable ones written by Persians: Bukhari, and Muslim), only follows "Ayatullhs" who interperets "Ravayats" from "Imams", collected, manufactured and expanded at the time of Safavids era.(think about How many Immamzadeh we have in Iran that Never mentioned in any pre Safavids book).

talk to any Shia believer: they know little about Quran, but tones and tons of "Ravayats" ( read Kherafat). Go to any Mosque outside Iran, you find from any nation, but not one Shia. Because they do not believe in Islam.
The relation of Shia and Islam is similar to Mafia and Catholic.
Dealing with one book "Quran"(islam) is much easier than dealing with tons of "Bahar al anvar of Majlesi, or Touziholamasaels"(Shia)

But unfortunately we are in this mess anyhow. By changing us to Shia probably we fell in "Chah from Chaleh".

I know that I love our pre safavids writes and thinkers such as Saadi, Hafez, Rumi, Nezami,attar, .. ferdowsi, all more or less were Muslims" . and belives in Human rights very dearly.

best wishes
araman

As We Part Yet Again…

The time is here to wrap up another thread. I would like to thank everyone for their contributions and comments. Although we might not see eye to eye on all matters concerned, I continue to learn from you and come out of each discussion not feeling self-righteous but enriched. There is always that one person who jolts my conscious by raising an unanswered question. Here I go again… in search of the unknown…

Keep rattling the cage. We are here. We are alive, and we refuse to be silenced!

گنه کرد در بلخ آهنگری به شوشتر زدند گردن مسگری ...

araman2: Interesting analogy! However, it falls short of describing what distinguishes Islam and Shi'a.

The holy book, Quran, together with the collection of Hadith (narratives) is the driving force behind Shi'a. Of course, interpretations and personal opinions of the Ulama dictate the political course of the Shi'a movement. Nevertheless, the core teachings of Islam remain solid.

This fact becomes more evident when one confronts a Shi'a intellectual, a well-read man who is actively and willingly participating in the crimes of IRI. While the uneducated masses may be excused for falling victims to propaganda and may be manipulated by superstition, the Shi'a learned class is driven by Islam’s teachings. For example, when non-believers are marked as najis, how can a Muslim possibly associate himself with them and stay pure?

In the case of Shi'a intellectuals, ignorance is no longer applicable… The teachings of Islam have bred modern monsters…

Hi every body. In the

Hi every body.

In the discussion of reformation, it is very essential to know Islam and Shia first, then discuss how to reform it. Unfortuantely many Persian mistaken Shia with Islam, and all they see in Iran blame on Arabs and Islam.

"Gonah kard dar Balkh Ahengari...Be shushtar zadand gardan e mesgari".
If you don't see the problem, you don't have the solution.

The Burden of Breaking the Silence

Abarmard: First and foremost, my objective is to fracture the forced silence on our nation, to rattle the cages imprisoning us, to let the warden and his guards know that we are still alive, still breathing, still challenging the status quo.

Yet, I must also bear naked the sin of compliance, to bring to the forefront the crimes of accomplices who equally either through their silence or contributions prolong this darkness…

There is no anger, hamvatan. There is only a duty…

The Fall from Grace

Dear Massoud: You have captured masterfully the rise of Islam and its fall from grace in those few lines.

Your cry touches a nerve in my soul and opens an old wound: I have heard that cry before in the wails of mothers, in the silent weeping of fathers, in the helpless upwardly glares of prisoners… I have heard it before…

Dear Laleh

Ultimately it comes down to you. I would like to urge you to investigate this further from the historical to social perspective and I will leave it at that. Please note that you need to clarify your objective. If you wish to promote people or Iranians in this case to change their religion or become atheist, then you must rethink your strategy, which I think based on the historical data it will fail. If you like to just empty some of your anger in the form of writing, then I understand.

Have a great weekend. 

Laleh jan: Scathing

Laleh jan: Scathing rebuttles of our intellectually-challenged resident Islamists. These Islamists are blind believers because if they renounce their archaic belief system, they wouldn't be able to live with themselves.

Everytime you leave ethics to religion, you get the Inquistion and the Inquisitors like smhb and Abarmard. It is a fact of life.

You are simply the best writer on this site without being on anyone's pocket directly or indirect. Thanks for your honesty.

لاله جان

من این قطعه کوتاه را چند هفته پیش در مورد اصلاحات و تجدد دینی و فرهنگی در اسلام نوشتم، که امیدارم خوشت بیاد:

اصلاحات و تجـدد دینی و فرهنگی در اسـلام

Modernizing Islam

Abarmard: Thank you for your reply. I fully understand your analysis but fall short of agreeing with it. Please allow me to explain:

The task of modernizing Islam entails accepting it first. For those of us who have denounced Islam either as a religion or a culture, that undertaking is neither appealing nor logical. Muslim religious leaders themselves must embark down that road. However, for centuries, the Muslim clergy has failed to do so because there are benefits to keeping the masses fooled through superstitious and religious fervor. Islam thrives on such foundation.

The Western societies have not modernized Christianity either. They have simply built a sanctuary for it (the Vatican) and have passed laws to prohibit it from creeping into power again. The religious right in the West is very much alive and active, biding its time to resurface here and there. The Western societies still live with the memories of the Dark Ages, the Inquisition, and the Witch Hunts.

Unfortunately, this is our dark ages… courtesy of Islam…

Quotations from the Holy Quran

smhb: Thank you for taking the time to quote from the holy book. I have been fortunate enough to study it in its original language in order to make up my own mind. Briefly speaking, I was neither impressed with its content nor its message. (In another one of my blogs, I addressed this issue once. So please forgive me for the repetition.)

The holy book is full of contradictions and imagery. It is simultaneously kind and merciless; it soothes and threatening. It promises rewards and frightening punishments. It advocates war and peace. It talks of equality but prescribes inequality. The collection of these contradictions together with its metaphors opens the door for human mischief and interpretations that have brought us here to this juncture where evil has thrived because of its teachings.

-------------------------

Please compare the following quotations to your posting to understand the contradictions mentioned above.

Husbands may hit their wives: Sura 4:34 Husbands should take full care of their wives, with [the bounties] God has given to some more than others and with what they spend out of their own money. Righteous wives are devout and guard what God would have them guard in the husbands’ absence. If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great.

Stature of a Man vs. a Woman: Sura 2:228 Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status.

Inheritance: Sura 4:11 The share of the male shall be twice that of a female.

The Value of a Woman’s Testimony: Sura 2:282 And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her.

Marriage and Subsequent Divorcing of Girls before Reaching Puberty: Sura 65:1 O Prophet, when you [and the believers] divorce women, divorce them for their prescribed waiting—period and count the waiting—period accurately . . . 4 And if you are in doubt about those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, (you should know that) their waiting period is three months, and the same applies to those who have not menstruated as yet. As for pregnant women, their period ends when they have delivered their burden.

Dear Laleh

It's really not the matter of right or wrong. You have realized that there is a problem, and have linked that problem to the religion factor, which makes sense. In a way religion is tradition since it aligns itself to the host culture. In many cases it overpowers the culture by force and in other cases it harmoniously joins. Although rare, the cases can be made.

Ultimately the question is the definition of traditions vs. religion, in another words the culture in regard to religion. I would suggest looking at it from this angle and investigate. 

If tomorrow you lift Islam from Afghanistan, would the society benefit? Would their culture become stronger, modern? Why or why not?

The most important issue that I have come to realize is that most people will not change their beliefs and its better to work with that logic and try to modernize the concepts of religion rather than deny it categorically. West was able to successfully do so, although the societies in the West are religious, they have been able to modernize it.

Happy Thursday

LalehGillani

I will only suffice to provide some quotations from the Holy Quran.

The equality between men and women in the eye of God is reiterated over and over as follows:

3:195 "Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER........."

4:124 "As for those who lead a righteous life, MALE OR FEMALE. while believing, t hey enter Paradise; without the slightest injustice"

9:71 "The believing men and women are allies of one another. They advocate righteousness and forbid evil, they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and they obey GOD and His messenger. These will be showered by GOD's mercy. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise."

9:72 "GOD promises the believing men and the believing women gardens with flowing streams, wherein they abide forever, and magnificent mansions in the gardens of Eden. And GOD's blessings and approval are even greater. This is the greatest triumph."

16:97 " Anyone who works righteousness, MALE OR FEMALE, while believing, we will surely grant them a happy life in this world, and we will surely pay them their full recompense for their righteous works."

33:35 "The submitting men, the submitting women, the believing men, the believing women, the obedient men, the obedient women, the truthful men, the truthful women, the steadfast men, the steadfast women, the reverent men, the reverent women, the charitable men, the charitable women, the fasting men, the fasting women, the chaste men, the chaste women, and the men who commemorate GOD frequently, and the commemorating women; GOD has prepared for them forgiveness and a great recompense."

40:40 "Whoever commits a sin is requited for just that, and whoever works righteousness - MALE OR FEMALE - while believing, these will enter Paradise wherein they receive provisions without any limits".

And of marriage:

30:21 " Among His proofs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other, and He placed in your hearts love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are sufficient proofs for people who think."

5:5 " Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the scripture is lawful for you. Also, you .may marry the chaste women among the believers, as well as the chaste women among the followers of previous scripture, provided you pay them their due dowries. You shall maintain chastity, not committing adultery, nor .taking secret lovers. Anyone who rejects faith, all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter he will be .with the losers."

4:4 "You shall give the women their due dowries, equitably. If they willingly forfeit anything, then you may accept it; it is rightfully yours."

On polygymy:

4:3 "If you deem it best for the orphans, you may marry their mothers you may marry two, three, or four. If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have. Additionally, you are thus more likely to avoid financial hardship. "

4:129 "You can never be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try. Therefore, do not be so biased as to leave one of them hanging (neither enjoying marriage, nor left to marry someone else). If you correct this situation and maintain righteousness, GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful."

Mutual attraction and dowrey:

4:24 "Also prohibited are the women who are already married, unless they flee their disbelieving husbands who are at war with you.* These are GOD's commandments to you. All other categories are permitted for you in marriage, so long as you pay them their due dowries. You shall maintain your morality, by not committing adultery. Thus, whoever you like among them, you shall pay them the dowry decreed for them. You commit no error by mutually agreeing to any adjustments to the dowry. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise."

Divorce:

4:35 "If a couple fears separation, you shall appoint an arbitrator from his family and an arbitrator from her family; if they decide to reconcile, GOD will help them get together. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant".

Alimony For Widows and Divorcees:

2:240 "Those who die and leave wives, a will shall provide their wives with support for a year, provided they stay within the same household. If they leave, you commit no sin by letting them do whatever they wish, so long as righteousness is maintained. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise."

2:241 "The divorcees also shall be provided for, equitably. This is a duty upon the righteous."

Do Not Throw the Divorcees Out Onto the Streets:

2:231 "If you divorce the women, once they fulfill their interim (three menstruations), you shall allow them to live in the same home amicably, or let them leave amicably. Do not force them to stay against their will, as a revenge. Anyone who does this wrongs his own soul. Do not take GOD's revelations in vain. Remember GOD's blessings upon you, and that He sent down to you the scripture and wisdom to enlighten you. You shall observe GOD, and know that GOD is aware of all things."

65:6 "You shall allow them to live in the same home in which they lived with you, and do not make life so miserable for them that they leave on their own. If they are pregnant, you shall spend on them until they give birth. If they nurse the infant, you shall pay them for this service. You shall maintain the amicable relations among you. If you disagree, you may hire another woman to nurse the child."

DRESS CODE:

7:26 "O children of Adam, we have provided you with garments to cover your bodies, as well as for luxury. But the best garment is the garment of righteousness. These are some of GOD's signs, that they may take heed."

24:60 "The elderly women who do not expect to get married commit nothing wrong by relaxing their dress code, provided they do not reveal too much of their bodies. To maintain modesty is better for them. GOD is Hearer, Knower."

33:55 "The women may relax (their dress code) around their fathers, their sons, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, the other women, and their (female) servants. They shall reverence GOD. GOD witnesses all things."

33:59 "O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful."

24:30 "Tell the believing men that they shall subdue their eyes (and not stare at the women), and to maintain their chastity. This is purer for them. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything they do."

24:31 "And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests, and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands,.....They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to GOD, O you believers, that you may succeed."

What Is My Objective?

Abarmard: Thank you for your cool and collected analysis. Although I don’t fully understand it, I do appreciate it. Instead of calling me names, you chose to give me an advice. I do welcome it…

So let’s talk a bit, shall we? My objective for writing an article like this is twofold: First, I intend to expose what is going on behind the scene. The Afghani law that the Shi'a clergy backed and successfully passed was cooked in Iran. IRI had a direct hand in it.

Second, I set out to jolt the conscious of those religious people who have not fully surrendered their judgment to what the authority tells them. I don't target them because I want to distance them from their god or faith. On the contrary, their spirituality equips them to see evil once confronted with facts.

If these individuals’ version of Islam teaches them love and peace, what is the reason for this darkness engulfing our homeland for thirty years? Who is responsible for it? What empowers a Muslim to kill a kafir without a moment of hesitation? These evil acts are committed not by a bogyman somewhere in space but by ordinary Muslims who are driven by their religion.

Please talk to me… Please tell me where I have gone wrong…

I don't agree with Abarmard

It is not up to the reader to tell the writer what and how to write. The reader is free to come to his or her own conclusions.

This article is quite useful the way it is.

A word of advise

Dear Laleh, 

If your objective is to attract those who think similar than you, well that's not difficult and there is no real need to preach to those individuals.

If you are thinking of starting a debate among the supportive and the anti groups, then you must present both sides carefully and fairly, which requires much more research. 

If your objective is to educate those who are religious to become milder, or modern in a sense, then you need to think much harder and construct your arguments carefully not to destroy any possible communications because of the sensitivity of this matter.

Thanks for the article.

Why Do I Single out Islam?

This question has been raised before and begs an answer from me sooner or later. So here it goes:

Since the invasion of Arab armies, every facet of our lives has been affected by Islam. Although there have been positive contributions from Muslims to our history and culture, in comparison, the amount of damage, destruction, and pure darkness Islam has inflected upon us dwarf those benefits.

We can argue over what happened or didn’t happened centuries ago, quote historians to support one side of the dispute or the other, and call each other names `till the cows come home. At the end, nothing is accomplished.

What is constructive is to look at our homeland and its contemporary history. In the last thirty years, what has occurred in Iran is done by Muslims in the name of Islam, a religion that has empowered scores of individuals to do evil on earth.

Of course, we don’t have to stop there. Take a look at Afghanistan and witness what the Shi'a clergy is doing there. They are practically competing with Taliban over which one can do more harm to the weakest, sweetest, and the most vulnerable members of that society, namely women and children.

If this is not pure evil, then what is?

I agree with you Laleh Khanom

Violence against women seems to be lodged in the very basis of Islamic rule -- I'm not going to say Islamic society because if the might behind the rule is not there society always proves itself pliable.

It's not Islam Stupid

As the phrase goes in the US, it's not religion stupid. You may find backwardness regardless of your religion. In Israel women are pushed in the back of the bus, that's not Jewish backwardness alone, it's the social backwardness.
How do you explain the Hindus in India and their treatment of women?
So if you like to make an statement, do a bit of freaking research, and if you like to bash a religion, do so for all of them as a whole. Otherwise, don't be a racist pig

منطق جایی در اسلام ندارد...

قصد طراحان این قوانین کسب کنترل و قدرت بود و است. بعلاوه، در جامعه اسلامی که تعدد زوجات مشروع است نیازی به این قانون نیست مگر اینکه هدف نظارت بر زندگی روز بروز شيعيان باشد. ظلم بر زنان بنیاد هر جامعه اسلامی است.

لاله خانم

امریکا، در حال حاظر، سرش گرم چیزهایی خیلی مهم تر از حقوق زنان در افغانستان می باشد. دیروز، در اخبار گفته شد، که طالبان در صد مایلی اسلام اباد، پایتخت پاکستان، می باشند. در ضمن، گفته شد که ارتش پاکستان، اماده یک کودتای نظامی است! ازادی زنان؟؟؟؟؟ خدا عمرتان بده!! برای امریکا، ازادی زنان، در اخر لیست است ...!

خوب همون دادگاه

خوب همون دادگاه شیعه و قاضی شیعه بالاخره باید یک چیزی جریمیی چیزی تعیین تکلیف کنه؟ جریمش چیه؟ میفرستنت زندان؟ خوب اینکه برای شوهر فایده نداره. از ماهی‌ یک بار هم دیگه خبری نیست.

بخدا من فکر می‌کنم زنهای افغانی باید از زنهای ایرانی‌ یاد بگیرند. همین ادا اطور‌ها را خواستن تو ایران پیاده کنند زنهای ایرانی‌ نزاشتن.

جریمۀ زنان

تکلیف زنانی که به قانون "احوال شخصیه اهل تشیع افغانستان" تمکین نمیکنند بدست دادگاه و قاضیان شیعه سپرده شده است. ماده ای در این قانون دست قاضیان شیعه را به حدی باز میگذارد که حتی تفسیر و توشیح قوانین مبهم در اختیار آنان است.

ابهام در اکثریت قوانین هدف علمای اهل تشیع افغانستان بود.

دوستانم در افغانستان می گویند که بعضی از جرایمی که قاضیان شیعه در گذشته تعیین کرده اند حکایت از ظلم روحی و جسمی بر زنان دارد:

مجازات جسمی (زدن و تجاوز)
زندانی زن در خانه و تنهایی او
رنج‌ ومحنت‌ از گرسنگى
انکار حق دیدن فرزندان‌
طلاق

در ماده 132 قانون

در ماده 132 قانون "احوال شخصیه اهل تشیع افغانستان" بدین گونه آمده است: "بر زن واجب است تا در صورت تمایل مرد به استمتاعات جنسی، از او تمکین کند."

لاله خانم والله وقتی‌ من این خبر تمکین را تو اخبار دیدم یک سوال برام پیش آمد و خوب حالا که شما هم این مساله رو مطرح کردید از شما میپرسم.

تو این قانون گفته شده که زن باید تمکین کنه. خوب حالا اگر تمکین نکرد تکلیف چیه؟ بعضی‌ مردها خوب دنبال بهانه هستند و کتک کاری راه میندازن. ولی‌ همهٔ مردها که اینجوری نیستن. شاید یک مردی خواست از زنش به همین خاطر شکایت کنه. خوب مثلا میره مچد و به آقا شکایت میکنه که بله خانوم تمکین نمی‌کنه و من هر شب باید برم سن فرانسیسکو و این جوری نمیشه.

خانوم هم خوب خیلی‌ جدی به آقا میگه حاج آقا یعنی‌ چه مگه اینجا لاس وگاسه؟ ماهی‌ یک بار هم از سرش زیاده.

حالا این وست تکلیف چیه؟ جریمهٔ خانوم چیه؟ تو این قانون مشخص نکردن اگر زن تمکین نکرد جریمش چیه. شما راجع به جریمش اطلاع دارین؟