VOTE

KouroshS

The reformist "camp" is not some kind of extra-terrestrial entity that has landed in Iran and now needs to "prove" anything to you. What you call the reformist "camp" is in fact the reformist MOVEMENT; meaning the collective will of the people to change the status quo and improve their lives in a gradual and nonviolent manner. So, the reformist movement is what you and I and millions of other Iranians will make of it.

Mousavi and Khatami are just symbolic figures of that movement. By no means, they can achieve alone what an entire nation achieve through hard work and dedication. They are men of integrity that the majority of the nation trusts to represent their movement.

KouroshS

You're a defeatist. That's why it's so hard to argue with you. For you, nothing good can occur in Iran as long as we don't change the Constitution. For me, I've already seen tremendous changes take place even with the presence of Vali Faghih.

Your assessment of Iran's political system is basic. You think that all candidates that are approved by the Guardian Council are necessarily those "chosen" by the "regime". That's just a superficial analysis of the process. This only shows how ignorant you are of the dynamic of politics in Iran. You see things at face-value.

The fact is that the Guardian Council WISHES for nothing more than vetoing Mousavi and the likes of him, but it simply can't. The Guardian Council could just disqualify him because there is a great political cost associated to it. If they did it, they would also have to brace for a huge social impact. So, the fact that Mousavi made it through the filter, doesn't necessarily mean that he was "approved" or "endorsed" by the Guardian Council, or that they approve his ideas. It simply means that political dynamics didn't allow the Guardian Council to do as it wishes. The same thing is true for Khatami. He is so popular that he is untouchable by the dark tyrannic forces within Iran. He is so loved by people that the undemocratic elements in Iran can't simply disqualify him, jail him or kill him without having to face HUGE consequences.

As for your claims about Valih Faghih, you're wrong again. You're caught again in your absolutist vision and your 0 or 1 version of events. You people get so carried away by your own exaggerated accounts of facts that you compromise your own logic. Despite your claim the Valih Faghih DOESN'T CONTROL everything in Iran. A President can very well act with a great degree of autonomy. The President has enough power to change many things. It is simply not true that Khamenei is the one calling every shot at the end. At least, his powers are not to the extend that it would make elections irrelevant. He too functions within a system. He too has to compromise, balance his positions, concede ground and interact with other forces. You make it seem as if Iran is an absolute authoritarian regime and this is simply not true.

Another argument that I can't stand from you people, is your predictions that anyone with good intentions in Iran (under the IR) is doomed to fail. That's another sad story about our country. Basically, what you're saying is that you won't choose anyone unless you're 100% sure he will succeed. Well, I've got news for you. That's not how politics work anywhere in the world. Candidates propose plans, and people vote for them to try to make those plans come true. Sometimes they fail, sometimes they PARTIALLY succeed, sometimes they completely succeed, and sometimes their policies fail in short-term but obtain results in the long run. Mousavi is no exception. I will vote for him to try and I will do my best to help him succeed.

You people need to understand that in politics everything is relative.

Parham

I hear you.

Not to sound nitpicky or anything, But nobody had to pay to secure a bed at a hospital to have a surgery, nowadays it seems, that is THE condition that must be met before anything takes place. it may seem like a minor issuse, But it is only one item among many other things and issues that need to be fixed.

The big thing is that like i said those in the reformists camp. need to prove to the people that they can put the conservatives in their place, a tough task but once they do that they would make a believer out of so many.

Arash78

"Dokoon" jaddo abadet va kardeh.

KouroshS

Again, thank you for your message. I agree with the gist of what you've said. There's just one point I'd like to bring your attention to, and that is medical care is actually not expensive in Iran and not that out-of-reach. Except for more modern therapies that are usually only imported that cost a lot, Iran has one of the lowest costing medical systems in the world.

ananymous 7

It only takes a warmonger to know another warmonger.

I suggest that you control your emotions and don't wish evil for those you hate. It may just backfire. Just a thought javoon.

This election is an absolute sham

What the Iranian people need is not an election like this. This is an election where you can not have a real choice. Where you have to choose between bad and worse.

We need an election that allows me or you to vote for or against the Islamic Republic. Where we have real choices and diversity. Not just confined to the Islamic Republic.

change from within (well said Anonymous1234)

Well said a1234, many of these Tahrimies are war mongers and supporters of sanctions .... I would be glad if they just settle with being Tahrimi!
I hope for a good election ..... and more disappointment for war mongers.

Parham,

Yes i totally relate to what you just said.

They really don't have a case to present. Our friend ananymous even reiterated on the fact that the fact that The nezam and its founder 's ideals, more or less are the cornerstone of all these candidate's agenda, does not even matter to them and would not concern them. That to me speaks volumes on how much of a bigot one can be.  It is being intentionally overlooked that not matter what the level of freedom is that is being given back to the people, It comes with provisions and instructions and it really does not mean anything and solve problems.

So, people can write more books and there will be more blogs that can be written, of course under such harsh scrutiny and control of the intelligent service, and talk about their pains etc...and of course there will be more jobs so at least people won't get kicked out of their homes.... Some meager changes. Until another for years has gone by and it is decided that enough is enough and it is time to turn the table.

Would they be able to stop massive brain drains? Would they be able to Make medical care affordable for everyone and not just a priviledge for the rich ones who can book a bed in a hospital? Would they be able to create and maintain a modern and free of the control of the government standard of living, who wants to impose its islamic elements at every turn ?

Yea people. Write all the books you want and blog your pains away and say what you want to say, But watch your back , because a basseji brother is standing within an arm's lenght observing your every move.

You know, here is the thing for me. Here is the bottom line . If they can really cut the hands of consevative establishment from people's lives and take the power out of the hands of organizations such as the rev, guards and Inc. that is when  I believe they are actually putting their word where they mouth is. Otherwise, I see them a a two-headed, brainwashed dragon, with fire coming outta their mouth.

I am sorry but they can have their reformist and deceive themselves in every possible way, and cite amirkabir and mosadegh's situation to lend credence to their pathetic cry of legitimacy. They can take that reform and  Shove It.

Parham

"I think those who are opposed to the boycott in favor of the so-called "reformist" camp can be divided in two groups.....However, for the second group who KNOWS there won't be real change, it could be useful to let them know that withdrawing their decision to vote will be supported by many"

Are you trying to "divide and conquer" the Iranian people? No my friend! You plan is not going to work. I know that any genuine reform movement "dareh dokooneh shoma ro mibandeh", but that's the way it is. You can either join the people or sit on the sideline and rant, but don't expect people to give up their hopes and join your camp of desperate pessimists.

Well thank you for that

Well thank you for that long answer which was repeating what you had said before anyways.  

You said: "Why is it so tough for you to understand that it is the system that needs to be changed from within".

It's not hard for me to understand this. In fact, this is exactly what I'm suggesting. But it seems you're the one who's not understanding this simple concept.

Not only I understand that the system must change from within, but I also have a plan for it. The plan is this: Choose someone (among these candidates) who will open up the political and social environment and allow civil organizations (such as NGOs, movement rights movements, students, authors, etc.) push for further democratization. I want an environment in which I can write a weblog and talk about my issues. I want an environment in which my sister can talk about her problems or make a documentary about it. I want an environment where my friends can more easily register an NGO and try to find solutions for their problems. I want an environment in which students can sit and talk about our foreign policy and make suggestions. I want an environment where I can find a job and not have to worry 24/7 about my landlord kicking me out, so that I can focus a little more on political and social issues.

 Let's be a little more realistic about all these dreams and fantasies that you have developed in your mind. You like to talk the good talk and line up these ideals and ust elaborate the hell out of them, but you know very well that non of these can happen in a REAL sense when There is a dictatorship of the islamic Kind in power.

But tell me, what is YOUR plan? Let Ahmadinejad get reelected again because you don't like the whole context in which the elections take place? Let him ruin what's left of our NGOs? Let him ruin what's left of the economy? Let him purge universities of every good professors and student? Kick out every accomplished manager to replace him with am inexperienced Basiji? Let him bar every good book from being published?(Did you know that under Khatami we had an average of 50,000 new publications a year in Iran - which was 5 times more than the average under Rafsanjani. Did you know that publications decreased to a triple-digit number under Ahmadinejad?!)

YOu are Right, I do not like anything about the circumstances where the elections are being held and Non of your Preaching and supposedly making it all look logical and Legitimate is not going to change my mind. These people are all cut from the same cloth and you know it and everyone else knows it and i mentioned that in my other post. WHy do i think that is the case? because at the end they obey the same leader, and that is where their loyalty lies and that is whom they are faithful to. I do nott want to see mere making gesturs towards establishing a democratic system, you still have thugs on the streets to tell people how to dress and how to act. Mousavi's vision is narrow and limited and has been approved by the Guardian council. His supporters are absolutely blind to the facts, his ties to the IRI and constantly repeat and regurgitate what they see and read on his website. Which everyone knows is nothing but a huge marketing tool and there is sense of accountability in executing anyone of those promises.

Is this your idea of democratization?

Democratization? Hold your horses. Let's deal with the principles the nezamis based onfirt, and then you and I willhave our little chat about what democracy is and how we can acheive it? Ghabool?

You said "You call Giving what rightfully belongs to our writers, and was forcefully taken away from them, namely their right to express themselve in a more open way, A solution?"

YES. Of course I call it a SOLUTION. Because that's what they want, don't they? Writers want to be able to write, and if there is a President who can give them that right, or at least facilitate their activity a little bit, I think it's a very good step. What's YOUR plan? Let them drive cabs instead of writing books until the day democracy suddenly falls off the sky?

 What do they want? You give the rights that should not have been taken away from them in the first place and all of sudden you have found a solution? This is a plan? They don't want a president that can give them that "right" and a person who is so far and above him in terms of his powers, to go back and snatch those rights, Before they know it.

You said "Does mosavi really give you the image that he is a reformer, when in his recently released videos, he mentioned how he sought Mr. khomeini's help and guidance in pretty much every single plan that he proposed to improve the economy of our country, during the time he was the prime minister"

YES. He did convince me that he is a reformist. And please don't distort what he said. He didn't say he sought Khomeini's help in EVERY SINGLE PLAN when he was Prime minister. This is a lie. He just referred to Khomeini to make a point about the disastrous consequences of inflation. He said Khomeini was so sensitive to it, that he didn't even allow the Parliament to tax more on cigarettes to balance its budget. 

he did not "just" made that reference to make a point of khomeini's sensitivity to the subject. IN reality he was stating the facts about his loyalty and how even on the most minute issues such as taxing cigarrettes he must first consult khomeini and get his opinion on it. The Key word here as you said, Khomeini not "allow" this to happen. Go figure, if you can, who has the authority to call the shots.

"Besides, SO WHAT he referred to Khomeini? He is someone who want to work under this constitution. He is not an opposition leader. He want to make changes from WITHIN (as you said). I don't care if he believes in Velayat Faghih or not, or if he fakes it. All I care about is that he is my best option for a better future. He is an accomplished leader who managed to run Iran during 8 years of war with an average of only 3 billion dollars a year. He managed maintain a 6% inflation when the country was at its lowest point and when at least 3 provinces were directly implicated in a savage war. He has come back with new ideas, new slogans, a vision and a great support from elites, authors, artists, etc. He has managed to start a new movement in only 8 weeks of campaigning. People love him, whether you like it or not. "

 Your not caring about this fact, shows your absolute adamancy and respect for the opinions of those who do not support neither ahmadi nejad nor mousavi. In fact neither one of the four candidates. You want people to be desperate enough to just go and do this and then go on and preach about how all those rights and freedomos are going to be given back to them. Velayete fagih IS the main reason why most people are boycotting this election , because they do not a system based on that concept and candidates who run their campaign onthat platform.  Of course that Is ALL YOU CARE ABOUT. because you are a selfish person and want people to live in desparation forever.

I am sure he has a lotta of new ideas. I have no doubt. all new plans that have been approved by the guardian council. It is funny and makes you wonder why so many other candidates were deemed disqualified In such a short time that is,  There were only some who were picked to make an appearance on the TV who had no plans whatsoever,  and why these 3 new candidates made it out unharmed.

Were all those other candidates who did not happen to agree with the system of velayete faghih, who were not allowed to be on TV , given the chance to have their ideas and plans, to move towards democracy, and a more conducive political and social environment presented , with as much focus  and attention that mr. mousavi was given, or was it the case that They simply knew what his plans were all about, It was preapproved, and all they had to do was to stick a "reformer" lable on it and sell it to the people.

I think you people need to think outside the "we the good people" versus "the evil Islamic regime". You need to deconstruct a little more the political system in Iran, and see that, even within that system with all its flaws, there are people who can bring about real changes.

 Wrong, There can not be possibly any REAL changes, as long as our constitution is based on ultra conservative religious principles and no one with having the chance to say one word against it, There will be no real changes.

"Didn't Amir Kabir leave a wonderful legacy while working for a rotten, despotic Qajar monarchy? Didn't Amir Kabir kiss the despotic King's hand and marry his sister? Didn't Ghaem Magham Farahani work for a murderer king? Didn't Mossadegh work for and under a tyrannic system? If you were a contemporary to Amir Kabir, Would you have dismissed him as someone who works for the Qajars? Would have turned your back to him because you didn't believe in the SYSTEM he worked under?

 Those were people who emerged from within the system and brought whatever change they could. Some of them failed, some of them succeeded partially, all of them were ultimately killed, cast aside or exiled, but they did their best and left a legacy. All of them contributed to the progress of Iran. Khatami was one of them. And Mousavi will be one of them.

And I will support them with all my heart and soul.

Yeah. I wonder about that. IF a system is so serious and sincere about giving his own ilk and loyals a chance to bring about as much change as they could, why would it end up killing them and sending them into exiles . Good point. I hope that we can one day come to you for an answer when your beloved mousavi, who has your heart and soul behind him, has been cast aside, and maybe had those other bad things happened to him.

and for those who read Farsi

I think this one sums it up well (although it still doesn't cover a few factors) for the case of the boycott:

//news.gooya.com/politics/archives/2009/05/08...

KouroshS

Thanks for your message to me.

I think those who are opposed to the boycott in favor of the so-called "reformist" camp can be divided in two groups:

- Those who really believe the "reformist" candidate(s) can bring substantial change.

- Those who know the candidate won't bring any real change, but yet are voting for various purposes (like for changing Ahmadinejad only, being able to do whatever they want to do socially with less interference, showing stamps, etc.)

Among the second group, those who are voting only to change Ahmadinejad have a huge proportion in the total amount of voters in my opinion. In fact, I think that's the biggest crowd among these two distributions.

Please note there are also those who really want to change Ahmadinejad but who think that the softliner (that's what I call them!) candidates CAN change things, but I believe those are actually not many, meaning most of those who only vote to change Ahmadinejad are actually in the second group.

Again, this is my opinion.

So you see, it's to no real use to even debate the first group. Already, as hard-headed that we Iranians are in most matters, and considering that the first group is mostly in denial only, that will be a waste of time and energy.

However, for the second group who KNOWS there won't be real change, it could be useful to let them know that withdrawing their decision to vote will be supported by many, and so it could reach big numbers, so at least it would be useful.

That's what I think. I hope I could get my point through though! It gets complicated, like with many other things pertaining to Iran! :)

No candidate in this

No candidate in this elections has promised to get rid of Valiheh faghih nor to remove the ideological element of the Islamic Republic.

There are several reasons why people are voting:

1-To assure a better management of the country. Electing someone who is more qualified to deal with the current issues such as inflation, housing crisis, unemployment, foreign pressures, and everything that affects people's every day life.

2-To assure relatively more social and political freedom so that the civil society can become more active and thus gradually grow more democratic and prosperous.

That's the plan for those of us who will vote.

And don't tell me that there is no difference between Ahmadinejad and the reformists in the management of the country. As someone said earlier; all those prominent artists, authors, entrepreneurs, journalists and activists who are LIVING IN IRAN and who are supporting Mousavi, have obviously FELT that difference.

Read what the article above says; THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS IS NOT A REFERENDUM TO APPROVE OR DISAPPROVE THE IDEOLOGY OF THE STATE. IT IS A MECHANISM TO ELECT THE NEXT ADMINISTRATION!!!!

KouroshS and all the Tahrimis...

You said: "Why is it so tough for you to understand that it is the system that needs to be changed from within".

It's not hard for me to understand this. In fact, this is exactly what I'm suggesting. But it seems you're the one who's not understanding this simple concept.

Not only I understand that the system must change from within, but I also have a plan for it. The plan is this: Choose someone (among these candidates) who will open up the political and social environment and allow civil organizations (such as NGOs, movement rights movements, students, authors, etc.) push for further democratization. I want an environment in which I can write a weblog and talk about my issues. I want an environment in which my sister can talk about her problems or make a documentary about it. I want an environment where my friends can more easily register an NGO and try to find solutions for their problems. I want an environment in which students can sit and talk about our foreign policy and make suggestions. I want an environment where I can find a job and not have to worry 24/7 about my landlord kicking me out, so that I can focus a little more on political and social issues.

But tell me, what is YOUR plan? Let Ahmadinejad get reelected again because you don't like the whole context in which the elections take place? Let him ruin what's left of our NGOs? Let him ruin what's left of the economy? Let him purge universities of every good professors and student? Kick out every accomplished manager to replace him with am inexperienced Basiji? Let him bar every good book from being published?(Did you know that under Khatami we had an average of 50,000 new publications a year in Iran - which was 5 times more than the average under Rafsanjani. Did you know that publications decreased to a triple-digit number under Ahmadinejad?!)

Is this your idea of democratization?

You said "You call Giving what rightfully belongs to our writers, and was forcefully taken away from them, namely their right to express themselve in a more open way, A solution?"

YES. Of course I call it a SOLUTION. Because that's what they want, don't they? Writers want to be able to write, and if there is a President who can give them that right, or at least facilitate their activity a little bit, I think it's a very good step. What's YOUR plan? Let them drive cabs instead of writing books until the day democracy suddenly falls off the sky?

You said "Does mosavi really give you the image that he is a reformer, when in his recently released videos, he mentioned how he sought Mr. khomeini's help and guidance in pretty much every single plan that he proposed to improve the economy of our country, during the time he was the prime minister"

YES. He did convince me that he is a reformist. And please don't distort what he said. He didn't say he sought Khomeini's help in EVERY SINGLE PLAN when he was Prime minister. This is a lie. He just referred to Khomeini to make a point about the disastrous consequences of inflation. He said Khomeini was so sensitive to it, that he didn't even allow the Parliament to tax more on cigarettes to balance its budget.

Besides, SO WHAT he referred to Khomeini? He is someone who want to work under this constitution. He is not an opposition leader. He want to make changes from WITHIN (as you said). I don't care if he believes in Velayat Faghih or not, or if he fakes it. All I care about is that he is my best option for a better future. He is an accomplished leader who managed to run Iran during 8 years of war with an average of only 3 billion dollars a year. He managed maintain a 6% inflation when the country was at its lowest point and when at least 3 provinces were directly implicated in a savage war. He has come back with new ideas, new slogans, a vision and a great support from elites, authors, artists, etc. He has managed to start a new movement in only 8 weeks of campaigning. People love him, whether you like it or not.

I think you people need to think outside the "we the good people" versus "the evil Islamic regime". You need to deconstruct a little more the political system in Iran, and see that, even within that system with all its flaws, there are people who can bring about real changes. Didn't Amir Kabir leave a wonderful legacy while working for a rotten, despotic Qajar monarchy? Didn't Amir Kabir kiss the despotic King's hand and marry his sister? Didn't Ghaem Magham Farahani work for a murderer king? Didn't Mossadegh work for and under a tyrannic system? If you were a contemporary to Amir Kabir, Would you have dismissed him as someone who works for the Qajars? Would have turned your back to him because you didn't believe in the SYSTEM he worked under?

Those were people who emerged from within the system and brought whatever change they could. Some of them failed, some of them succeeded partially, all of them were ultimately killed, cast aside or exiled, but they did their best and left a legacy. All of them contributed to the progress of Iran. Khatami was one of them. And Mousavi will be one of them.

And I will support them with all my heart and soul.

sohrab

I am talking about the fact that despite having free elections since the time the revolution happened, and no this is not the first time we are having the elections.nothing has fundamentally change. We are still living under the same system and the velayate faghih still rules over the country. Can you or any one of your reform-minded friends deny that?

You tell me how the opposition can possibly get on board when they most likely have to seek the Guardian council's approval! are you for real? You are setting the bar so high, knowing that it is unreachable, given the dominance of this council on all political affairs, and yet place the responsibilty on these opposition groups abroad to participate? as if they have a choice!

People can use their right to vote. There is no denying that, Pointis that Voting is not going to get them anywhere, because of the fundamental beliefs of all these four candidates and that it overlaps tremendously  with that of the leader ,albeit  with possible minute differences, which when it comes down to making big decisions with utmost impacts on the affairs of the iranians, they amount to absolutely nothing and the leader has the final word. and because of the fact that every move they would make must be approved by The conservatives.

I am sorry, but if you deny this very obvious and clear and proven concept, A fact, Then you really do not know what the hell you are talking about my brother.

KouroshS

What are you talking about? When did Iranians, in their entire history, had free elections? Whether you like it or not, this is the first time in history that we can vote and change the entire management of the country. And again, whether the bitter opposition abroad wants to get on board with the rest of the people or not, people WILL use their right to vote.

Parham

If you did have a strong position in this debate, you wouldn't make such a fuss about me calling your argument "BS".

You come here trying to make a case for boycott and portraying millions of people who will vote as "fools" who allow themselves to be played by the I.R. Yet don't offer any alternative solutions to voting other than the cliche "fight". So, I am really wondering why you are trying deter people who are actually trying to something.

Parham

Buddy

Don't even worry about this and expect any appologies. Just let them be. They can not see very clearly and it just aint gonna happen with them. they are purposelly twisting the concept of fighting and are capitalizing on its worse possible virtues. What more can you say to and how can you actually use logic withthose who think giving back the rights!! that already belonged to the people and was taken away from them by force and various threats and insults, is part of a reform agenda. It is like stealing someone's car and then giving it back to him and saying, Here. now that you have your car back, can i tell you how to live yourlife ?

Go figure.

Ananymous 1234

Why do you expect rationality, while what you put forth as logical and a rational plan, is a far cry from it? What you are doing is to basically encouraging people in iran to be minimalists and to settle for what they have, ignoring the fact that they know extremely well that no matter how they slic this thing, they are still GETTING A RAW DEAL.

Why is it so tough for you to understand that it is the system that needs to be changed from within, and so long as that has not happened, no voting for a reformer and their agenda, does not make a damn bit of difference on the future of our country and international acceptance. Does mosavi really give you the image that he is a reformer, when in his recently released videos, he mentioned how he sought Mr. khomeini's help and guidance in pretty much every single plan that he proposed to improve the economy of our country, during the time he was the prime minister? how could you ignore such obvious and in-your-face, strong link and connection to the main leadership cadre and how NOTHING can happen without their Approving nod?

You call Giving what rightfully belongs to our writers, and was forcefully taken away from them, namely their right to express themselve in a more open way, A solution? And how could possibly our international image be improved while no matter who comes to power, would still want to continue with enrichment and going on full swing with the nuclear development plan?

Your "Deep social reforms" is such a vague manner of stating your purpose. Why don't you name those changes, so as to inform us as to what those changes were precisely, and so that you would not be considered to use "abstract notions" in your own arguments as well.

And while you are at it, please do indulge us on some of those international dignitaries who respect Khatami for all these Deep reforms?? you know... those Experts and academic

Sohrab

I hope that for your own sake, your beloved candidate would not decide to make a last minute U-Turn and surprise the heck out of you and his other followers. Seems like he's got you brainwashed and hookedonly, based on what he has said in his website. Wow. talk about credibility there.

Sohrab

I don't need to give you a plan. Neither do I need to convince you! Just who the @%&ç do you think you are to barge in and start an inquisition here?

Like I said, there is no practical solution. If you think there is one, I have hardly seen or debated with anyone as mentally challenged in my life. Go back and read what I wrote instead of barking like a stray dog that a fundamentalist has tried to put to death unsuccessfully! That's IF you're actually interested in a debate and are not here to troll or start a verbal fight, which I doubt.

I will not reply to anything more by you unless you:

1- Apologize publicly for calling what I said "b.s."
2- Write what you want to say like a human being (and not like that stray dog I just described above!)

See ya.

Hypocrisy and double-standard at its best...

Commenter said:

It's so sad to see how you racist, out-of-touch, delusional people still think in the 21 century. It's so sad to see the words "Ariyan" and "Arabs" and "Kourosh" appear so many times in each discussion, without any relevance.

How come anything iranian is irreverent and out of 21st century, BUT what a pedophile prophet preached 1400 years ago to a bunch of nomad arabs is still relevant in same 21st century?

That is very telling that when iranain identity is praised or when arab atrocities are flagged people rush to object but same people can tolerate 1400 years of islamic savagery is never complained about and still belongs to 21st century.

On the contrary, the iranian identity is a major issue for iranians within iran than ever before. People are going to their roots and find the source of all problems in the imposed backward arab ideology. A simple search of YouTube reveals how nervous mullas are as they oppose anything iranian, from gathering at historical sites to celebrating iranian holidays, all have been fought against for 30 years while the death of any arab thug from 1400 years ago mourned.

If you dislike the mild pro-iranian (anti-arab domination) tone here, maybe you should make a visit to iran and talk to ordinary people to see how turned away they are from anything non-iranian.

I guess some people just do not like iranian culture and do not feel iranian but they have no guts to come out and openly say so and keep digressing and dancing around the subject.

to Parham

"The answer is to fight"

I asked for a PRACTICAL solution not an emotional BS slogan.

Let's say it is June 13th and you haven't voted. Now what is your practical plan to "fight"?

-Who are fighting against? The millions of Iranians who have voted? The hundreds of thousands who participate in the Namaz jomeh all over the country every week? Sepaheh pasdaran?

-Who are your allies? The monarchists? the MKO? The Israeli army?

-And once you overthrow the government (LOL!) who are you going to replace it with? The monarchists? The MKO? The Israeli army?

Come on, give me an alternative plan, a strategy, a time table...something that will convince me that your plan is better than Mousavi's! I know exactly what he is going to do or at least try to do, it's all there on his website.

Best Comment so far

The best comment so far, comes from Anonymous12345. It comes from the heart and it is a (rare) altruistic argument. Much of the conversation is getting into irrelevant silliness and "gheirati" grandstanding.

So, I'll just repost his comment for those who might have missed it. Good day to all.

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Nicely said!
by Anonymous12345 (not verified) on Thu May 28, 2009 05:19 PM PDT

Mammad, you're so right. I would add that every single artist, writer, film director, musician in Iran has called on people to vote. Respected pioneers like Entezzami, Davood Rashidi, Dolat Abadi and the younger generation of artists like Bahareh Rahnama, Forrokhnejaad, Baran Kosari, have all felt the need to replace Ahmadinejad with someone like Mousavi....You know why? Because they want to work, they want to produce, they want to write, they want to compose, they want to publish...

Thousands of university professors have written letters and signed petitions in support of the reformist candidates. None has called for a boycott of the elections. None of them is crazy enough to ruin his own life and the life of his countrymen with 4 more years of Ahmadinejad.

But of course, people who oppose voting on this forum (those who have been outside of Iran for decades) somehow, and for some weird reason, consider themselves more IRANIANS than them. They think they are more entitled than people who have stayed and worked in Iran to determine what's good for the country. All I have to say to them is, stay where you are, and let people improve their lives.

Stay away, or wake up. Wake to the fact that the "Ariyan race" is neither an electoral issue, nor a concern for Iranians living in Iran. None of them cares if their race is superior to others. None of them cares to call himself "Persian" instead of "Irani". All they want is to improve their lives, improve their economy and progressively move towards a better political system. They have concrete needs and concrete expectations for TODAY. They don't give a damn about who invaded Iran some 14 centuries ago.

It's so sad to see how you racist, out-of-touch, delusional people still think in the 21 century. It's so sad to see the words "Ariyan" and "Arabs" and "Kourosh" appear so many times in each discussion, without any relevance. It seems some of you have no logic or analytical skills at all. You either respond and dismiss every logical argument by invoking unrelated poems and idioms, or you go on and blame everything on "Carter" or "Arabs who invaded our Aryan land 1400 ago".

Get real.

Parham

You haven't answered to ONE SINGLE argument. I haven't heard one rational answer from you. All you do is mock other people's arguments with cheesy one-liners.

And your stance is superficial because all you care about is changing the regime or "fight"! What the hell does "fight" mean? Isn't voting to get someone like Mousavi elected, despite all the resistance from the hardliner "fight" enough?

Come on! At least we have a solution: We will choose someone who would improve our economy, improve our image internationally, and open the field for our writers, artists, thinkers...we see democratization as a rational process. What about you? The only solution you could come up with was an abstract notion, "fight"!

Well, fight how? Fight with what? Guns? Terror?

See. That's why I say your view is superficial.

You asked for examples of reform, and I cited the deep social changes instituted by 8 years of Khatami. Most academics and experts around the world, along with activists inside Iran, all recognize Khatami's role in making these social changes.

The only people who don't want to admit it are people like you you will never be satisfied with any progress in Iran.

I asked you why do you think that the overwhelming majority of Iranian activists, democratic movements, women rights movements, students, etc. love and support Khatami and now Mousavi? You didn't answer as expected.

Because you don't have any answer.

To Anonymous1234: Pleasant dreams my dear

"I can't wait for Mousavi to win and resume Khatami's policies again."

Don't make me laugh!

Needless to remind you (who are either genuinly naive and gullible or think others are that naive and gullible) that if the fuhrehr and Co. had any intention of reviving Khatami's era and/or his eight years of so called "policies", Khatami himself would not have been forced to take back his candidacy while tears rolling down his face.

Khatami himself could have continued with his "own" policies better than anyone else. couldn't he? what does your common sense tell you?

any way aziz, good luck with your dreams

Wise enough...Nashenase 1234

Thank you Arshia for hitting the nail right on the head.If anyone is wise enough to recognize what really is best for iran and its future, these are the points that should be kept in mind and paid attention to,

What good are Tremendous social freedoms, when they are not fundamental and rooted within the fabric of the society, and when after the eight years is all done and over with, can be taken away on a whim by another hardliners=. Is this the basis for the progress of our "democratic forces" inside the country?

Of course people want to go back to the khatami's era, but that is becuase they do not have any other choices! It is like what has been said here time and again, the choice between bad and the worse.Do you people not see that it is the system itself that determines who qualifies as a reformer and who does not, when their consevative clerics examine the candidates and put out the list of the final candidates? How much more superficial can one get when such an obvious and clear and direct involvemnet of the ultra-conservative wing of the system is purposely ignored?

How interesting that even the Most radicals nowadays are talking about human rights. But they just leave it at that, Has anything been done to restore human rights in iran? have they taken a step instead of just talking?

Educating people on their rights? reviving their hopes and aspirations? Like iranians were a bunch of "poshte koohi" people prior to that and did not know what had hit themin the first few years of the revolution and were not aware that they had rights that should have been respected??! This is basically to declare iranians as a bunch of fools and ignorants and believe that they were not good on their own until The system decided to send them an angel and make things all better. Get real friends.

 Care to venture a guess why this newly instituted mentality did not amount toanything and did not materialize? Why did it not find solid grounds to stay and remain in our society and foster real and meanigful changes and not short term changes? It is really funny that despite such ideaological resistance steming from khatami's accomplishements, We still see that the radical conservatives push through their agenda rather easily without any hint of opposition.

Sohrab

Perhaps you would like us to spoon-feed you too? There is no practical solution! The answer is to fight!

So what good is it if they failed in the case you are talking about? I don't get it! You're citing failure as a model??

And how would you know ANYTHING about me (for example) to say I'm "armchair theorizing"? Do you even take yourself seriously?

Didn't you know Arash and Shirin that ...

کافر همه را به کیش خود پندارد

It is not my fault that others see me as themselves.

 Shrin joon

You don't need to wish to have Mullahs instead of me - YOU ALREADY HAVE THEM  sweetie - LOL

Anonymous1234

So what makes my analysis "superficial"? The fact that you said so??

Anyway, just remember, it wasn't Khatami who gave, it was the people who took. And they will take again. Better watch your pants when they take again though!

And so who called anyone "traitor" or "ignorant"?? Are you guys for real?? And how would you know where I've lived and where I haven't?

Anyway, this one for you. See if you understand it. If you don't, it's just fine.

They tell this guy who still pees in bed at night at the age of 30-something that maybe it's better to see a psychotherapist for his problem. He gladly accepts and after a while they ask him if he still pees in bed at night. He answers, "yes, but now I'm proud of it!"

Good luck for the future!

Arash78

I agree with you. The person Rusta is very fanatic. I rather have the Mullahs than many of these fanatics

Down with IRI