MONTAZERI

Shaayad Keh

Dear Shaayad Keh, I agree.  My reference to this website was in so far as the comments we compared belonged to this site and this site represents some views of the Iranian diaspora in the West in Particular.  

We don't know what the outcome of this struggle would be and don't know how much control we (diaspora), people in Iran, or indeed politicians and policy makers might have on the outcome which has a course and logic of its own!!  

I personally believe people in Iran who take the brunt of the happenings and are engaged in the actual struggle in flesh and blood, who must be the decision makers of THEIR fate.  What I witness as the difference in comments point to the fact that people in Iran are much more serious, sober careful and respectful in their comments and tend to view things as less black and white.  They live and breathe with people of the 'opposite site' as family members, neighbours and workmates, and they know about the complexities involved.  

Setareh,

Thank you, I wish more people become aware of the differences of being inside or outside the fence.

But I do not believe the fault is with this site or even people commenting in it. What is clear for me is that people inside the fence are living a totally different life as people outside of it.

The outcome of this struggle, I believe would be a vector of both worlds though.  I only think it would be less painful for people inside the fence if their say has more power.

Maybe you and I (and I know there are others) could help.....

Peace, 

Shaayad Keh

Shayad keh, thank you for the comparison!

What is striking in the comparison you showed between the comments left by Iranians in Balatareen websie and the comments on this website, is the ability of the former for critical thinking, serious reflection, their living involvement with the issues, and the absence of venomous Islamophobia and offensive hateful drivel which is the hallmark of this website.  Thank you indeed.  

Montazeri

Abdy Moghbel

When Montazeri says he feels responsible for what has happened, he is not sincere and he does not mean that he is sorry for the existence of the Islamic Republic which is the core of the problem.  I. R. is a misnomer and a contradiction in term.  For a democratic society to function, religion and politics must be completely dissociated into separate hermetic compartments.  Montazeri is posturing when he feels sorry as he would in a “roze-khani”.  He and his co-believers are the true culprits for imposing their ill-gotten misguided concepts on the Iranian people after their remarkable revolution in 1979.  These thugs have rubbed the dreams of the Iranian nation and in its place have erected this shameful sham of a system called I. R.  They are responsible for perpetrating all the crimes that have been committed under the banner of I. R. during the past 3 decades.  The greatest of which is the suffocation of hope for liberty amongst this otherwise great nation and its youth.  The clergy cannot be trusted because they are all tainted by their folly, their fables and their beliefs.  They are peddlers and sellers of fables, not men of character, value, thought or of vision.  Remember Khatami?  He was elected by the people and ended up betraying them and serving one man, Khamenei, and his thugs.  Fortunately we can always recognise them by their ridiculous attire.  They should all go in peace before they shall be departed in pieces.

Ayatollah Gibberish ...

Noone bothered to read Khomeini's utterly absurd and otherworldly gibberish when he was constructing his web of brazen lies to drag ignorant Iranians into the hell that the IRI has been since its inception.

Does anyone now bother to read the true "scholarship" of Mantazeri?! Please do. His "writings" are posted on his website.

Let your fingers do the walking and browse a few pages of the "Touzeeh-ol-Massael" to see his genius in "Problem-Solving" for yourself! You won't know if you should laugh or cry!

It is entirely possible that Mantazeri's beef with Khomeini over mass executions of captive prisoners may have been over a technicality and the proper "procedure" rather than principle. 

With "scholarly" leaders like this, "Iran" appears not to be a nation or country but a sick joke ...!

Tuesday, September 15,

Iran has agreed to meet with the six world powers in early October. While they want to discuss Iran's nuclear research program, Iran is insisting that its activities are legal under the Non-Proliferation Treaty and is signalling that it will be reluctant to do anything differently.

Eux.tv has video:

See Farideh Farhi's new essay, "Ahmadinejad's Nuclear Fallacy" for a canny explanation of what is going on in Iran on this issue.

Meanwhile, inside Iran, eminent cleric and thorn in the side of the Khomeini government, Husayn Ali Montazeri, on Monday branded Iran a "military-controlled" regime and called on the leading clerics to condemn repression. He argued that if all the major clerics (called maraji` or exemplars, i.e. people to be imitated in their views on the religious law) took on the regime, it would be forced to change.

Three of Montazeri's grandsons are said to have been taken into custody, in response.

And, Mehdi Karroubi (one of the presidential candidates) is refusing to back down on his allegations of prisoner abuse, even though they have been rejected by judicial authorities.

Both inside and outside the country, things are coming to a head.

//www.juancole.com/2009/09/internal-external-crises-sharpen-in.html#comments

interesting...

interesting...

Islamic Republic, in name only

It's good that he feels some remorse, but as someone else said here, he and other Islamists knew full well what would happen when they mixed religion with politics. I remember when I was a child in Iran we had respect for the lowliest clergy and now people are saying the harshest things about the Ulama. So he is a culprit the same way that Soroush and other Islamists are. They started all this and turned a mass movement to the brutal regime that we witness today.

Having said that we cannot ignore the essence of Islam in the Iranian character. That was what the shah tried to do which led to his downfall.

The only way out seems to be to keep the Islamic Republic but in name only. The same way that Iraq and Afghanistan are supposedly Islamic Republics.  There could still be some laws that are based on Islam, the same way that laws in Western countries are based on Christianity. But there should be a divide between what's happening in Qom and what's happening in Tehran.

The clergy might not like this idea since it means they will lose a lot of power, but if they want some respect within the society, they should "drink from this poisonous chalice".

comparison

 The exact same post is posted on the Iranian site of Balatarin. I have copied the exact and complete set of comments on that site just to compare the differences in views out side and inside Iran.

Peace,

 Shaayad Keh

mohebi_j حدود ۱۹ ساعت قبل گفت:

آیت الله منتظری باید مردم را به حضور در روز قدس دعوت کند و هرگونه سرکوب مردم را حرام اعلام کند.

++ + - رأی  -۱ isama251 حدود ۱۷ ساعت قبل گفت:

‏آنچه مشاهده مى‎شود در واقع حكومت ولايت نظامى است نه‏ ‏ولايت فقيه .

متاسفانه آقای منتظری هنوز حقیقت را نمیپذیرد که این حکومت ولایت فقیه است. "براى انسان اقرار به اشتباه ننگ نيست ، زير‏ ‏بار حق نرفتن ننگ است." + - رأی  ۳ mehretaban حدود ۱۶ ساعت قبل گفت:

آیت الله منتظری باید مردم را به حضور در روز قدس دعوت کند و هرگونه سرکوب مردم را حرام اعلام کند.

اینو لینکش کنید + - رأی  ۷ mehretaban حدود ۱۶ ساعت قبل گفت: ‏حجة الاسلام والمسلمين حاج شيخ مهدى كروبى و جناب آقاى مهندس‏ ‏ميرحسين موسوى - دام توفيقهما و حفظهما الله تعالى - + - رأی  ۶ mo_sa حدود ۱۵ ساعت قبل گفت: به نظرم طرفداران جنبش سبز باید اعلام میکردند که نماز عید فطر رو در دفتر آقای منتظری میخونن. من که نمازخون نیستم ولی نماز عید فطر میرم دفتر منتظری عزیز. + - رأی  ۳ torino حدود ۱۴ ساعت قبل گفت: به خودم افتخار میکنم که تو کشورم امثال آیت الله العظمی منتظری و صانعی وجود دارند که درد مردم رو میفهمند
وبا مردم همراهند نه با حکومت
اجرکم عندالله + - رأی  ۶ yazdi حدود ۱۴ ساعت قبل گفت: فکر نمیکنید نامه های منتظری را مثل اعلامیه های خمینی در زمان شاه باید در نقاط مذهبی شهر پخش کنیم؟ + - رأی  ۱ ayeneh حدود ۹ ساعت قبل گفت: فکر خیلی خوبیه . + - رأی  ۱ poyandeh حدود ۷ ساعت قبل گفت: سئوالاتی که برای من مطرح است.
1.چند در صد از مردم ایران هنوز دنباله رو یک"مرجع تقلید" هستند؟
2. آیا کسانی که دنباله رو این "مراجع" هستند و در ایران زندگی می کنند تا حالا متوجه نشدند که داستان چیست و منتظرندببینند نظر مراجع چیست که آنوقت به جنبش بپیوندند؟
3. چند در صد از کاربران "بالاترین" به این مراجع معتقدند؟ از نظرات و اطلاعات هر چه دقیق تر ممنون می شوم. + - رأی  ۱ maraamdaar حدود ۴ ساعت قبل گفت: منتظر فتوای تاریخی‌تر منتظری باشید: «بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم . اليوم سکوت در برابر جهل و جور و فساد حکومت خامنه‌ای بای نحوِ كان، در حكم محاربه با پیامبر اسلام و امام زمان است. حسینعلی منتظری» + - رأی  ۱ SadeqRahimi حدود ۳ ساعت قبل گفت:

روز قدس مراجع با غیرت باید نشان دهند که با ملت هستند به هر طریقی که می تونن

good luck ، به قول اینطرفیها + - رأی  ۱ mr.sina حدود ۳ ساعت قبل گفت: +++++++++++ بخش نظرات غیرفعال شده است.

to "Islam goes to Hell"

Please refrain from commenting on subjects you have absolutely no clue about. Ayatollah Montazeri was the only person who confronted Khomeini to protest the mass executions of the 1980s, at the time when opposing Khomeni was a political suicide. Ayatollah Montazeri was the successor of Khomeini to become the next Supreme leader but he gave that up to defend the rights of political prisons including the members of the MKO (despite the fact that the MKO had assassinated his own son).

Iranians' Cry for Freedom

Mr. Montazeri, it is great to hear you are publicly defending the Iranians' cry for freedom, which in fact began 30 years ago. This is what happens when you mix religion with politics. History has proven this many times.

The answer is DEMOCRACY and not THEOCRACY.

It is Just a wolf's cry !

Montazeri

To those friends who expect a radio to receive images and output like a television: don't expect a religious scholar to promote a secular regime. Montazeri will not tell people "to hell with Islam, revolt to set up a secular society". Yes he was part of the Khomeini bundle and that is not to his credit, but he was always opposed to excesses and that was why he refused to continue as Khomeini's deputy, and now, despite his calls for change to "true Islamic society" - whatever  that may be- his objections are helpful and productive, specially where masses of religious people in Iran are concerned.

So, let's not shout him down. At the same time he and other clerics should know that the rule of religion in Iran is over: even now, there is military rule by the Revolutionary Guards who recently claimed their prize- finally. A military dictatorship is a lot easier to see go away than a junta that proclaims to millions of simple-hearted people that it is elected by God !  Does this make sense ?

A simple question for dear Montazeri and alike.......

mg

I have a simple question for A. Montazeri and all other alike Mullahs who nowadays are feeling some tingles in some unknown places in their biddies for their oppressed nation:

Did not you and your cronies know that a  tough religious system plus a group of hypocrites who had been burning in thirst for power for a long time in our history,would be just good enough to destroy the future of a nation?

To Dear Montazeri and all my compatriots who have traditional and religious trends towards our general lives in that God-forgotten country, I should say that we do not have any right to destroy the hopes of our children who belong to this modern time, and inevitably obliged to take on new and flexible attitudes towards their world.Tradition, religion, culture and national values will be saved and get improved in an atmosphere of freedom, rationality and consistent beliefs and thoughts.

If we ask an engineer to tell us about the best ruling system, he or she, surely would not be able to give us a comprehensive description of his or her choice; but a clergy, a Mullah would be able to give us the most comprehensive explanations on this matter, as the Mullahs are in fact the masters of human sciences.They are the absolute masters of philosophy which is the basis of all branches of sociology and other human sciences. My point is that the figures like A.Montazeri in 1979 knew, with no doubt, what they were going to do. They knew that a tough and inflexible religious system would never ,ever be able to create any kind of satisfaction in a country like Iran.

And nowadays Montazeri and his cronies are saying that the Islam and religious system of their own  models was something else and was not to be so cruel and destructive!! Poor things! they did not know that in the entire of the history of humankind in this planet a religious system of ruling  has not been able to  yield to anything other than the bloodshed and skewing the human values and creating hatred and ressentiment.

One of our friends has said here WE NEED THE SUPPORT OF ULAMA(Mullahs), but with all respect that I have for this dear friend  and  other compatriots who have such beliefs, I should say yes, WE NEED THE ULAMA(Mullahs) BUT NOT THEIR SUPPORT. We need them indeed, we need them to teach us how to avoid the fake God, the fake religion and the fake leaders; we need them to teach us how getting infatuated with any kind of leaders who are hidden behind the GOD, can be seriously poisoning.

would have been nice

If he said these things 20, 25 years a go. it might have saved life's back then.

ulama ??

ms. olfati  these crowd are inventor of

 GHULAMA (as male huri) in BEHESHT,and velayat,deen, nammaz,ruzeh,sofreh,sedegheh,.........that is why they call or liked to be called bahr al ooloom !!  and you're still following them and wants their co operation ? 

GOUL khoordi ONCE shame on them, want to goul bekhoorid again shame on.... 

Maziar

We need the support of ulama

Yet again we have seen how the progressive elements of the clergy and religious class have been able to change the course of our history. Iran of today is different from 1979 and is very different from 1902 but as a society still in turmoil between modernity and tradition, new versus old, we have to respect any one who is standing against the tyranny of the Velayat Faghih. Veteran Motazeri is brave to voice is dislike of the current regime, we must support him in his quest for freedom in Iran.

shayyadiun........

these crowd are all shayyad,pedar sokhteh,hogheh baz &............many other countless name to tag along them all these croonies ashk temsah,vaa eslama, is just to find an acceptable vie of survival for the Islamic regime to countinue its brutal existance;If they were honest they have to get rid of their own AAMMAMEH first. As in Persian goes: BORO EEN DAM DAR JAYE DEGAR NEH.............Maziar

Xerxes

Thanks but no thanks. This time we will do it right and make a secular nation. The last thing we need is Islam lite. Go tell your stories elsewhere.

Iran is in good hands

With great people and Islamic Regime, Iranian system has to deal with the growing discontent of the highest clergy that now have joined the people. This is very promising. This is a slap to the faces of those who just bad mouth Islam and the Islamic leaders without realizing our assets. damer garm Montazeri.
This is yet another awakening for the politically naive iranians. passing through the fences of religious upbringing and thoughts, we will reach freedom. Without these clergies what hope did people truly have? same hope that N. Koreans have!