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Theocracy vs. Democracy
15-Apr-2010
Some months ago, on a bus ride from Edinburgh airport to St. Andrews in Scotland, I was sitting with a British gentleman who was going to the same conference as I was -on the historiography of Iran. I started talking to him about Iran. He is a historian who teaches in one of the U.S. universities. His field of study is the Middle East, in particular Iran. He told me that in a few months he would be organizing an event in honor of the late Ann Lambton, a well-known British scholar of Iran, a woman who traveled Iran by foot and who wrote voluminously about many aspects of the country, ranging from a study on Persian grammar to the history of the Qajar period to land reform under the Pahlavis.
Tall and rugged, Lambton was an intimidating teacher who suffered no fools—as some of her former students told me. She was also a close advisor to the British government and a good friend of Foreign Secretary Anthony Eden. She had told her government not to compromise in any way with the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran, Dr. Mohammad Mosaddeq. Dr. Mosaddeq was a secular politician who had studied Law in France and Switzerland. What he saw in the West, the workings of a democracy, impressed him so much so that he wanted to apply it to his homeland. Mosaddeq had written his Ph.D. thesis on the law of inheritance in the Shi’a religion. He knew the ins and outs of religion and government. Of Qajar descent, he had grown up in nobility only to reject it. Highly influenced by his philanthropic mother, and raised in a liberal family, he came to realize that democracy was the best form of government for Iran. He had been imprisoned by Reza Shah for denouncing the latter’s dictatorial decrees, and at the age of 67, he was one of the oldest members of the Majlis. Soon after, by a majority vote, he became the Prime Minister of Iran.
Mosaddeq of course opposed British influence in Iran and in an act of insubordination, nationalized Iran’s oil to the outrage of the British. The subsequent history is well known. Mosaddeq was toppled; the Shah was brought back, giving years of lip service to those who helped regain his throne. But in 1979, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, like his father before him, was forced to leave the throne. The Iranian Revolution took place and the Imam came back from years of exile in Najaf by way of Neauphle-le-Chateau on an Air France jet. Millions were cheering while waiting for his arrival in the streets of Tehran. On the plane, the late ABC anchor, Peter Jennings, asked Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini how he felt returning to Iran after such a long absence. His reply was, “nothing,” showing a man with no emotions.
Why is looking back at history at this juncture so important not just for Iran but the entire Middle East? Why is it that the past always comes back to haunt us? Why is it that personalities like Ann Lambton and the role they played so vital in shaping the history of nations like Iran? Ann Lambton believed that for the British government to make any deals with Mosaddeq was a kiss of death. Like many of her friends in the British foreign office, she was short-sighted and only saw the immediate gains. She also advised her government to ally with the clergy. The American historian Roger Louis wrote, “While Ann Lambton did not write the blueprint for theocracy in Iran, she did suggest in 1951 that covert means be used to oust Muhammad Musaddiq. Her first choice as the replacement for the then-still-constitutionally-mandated Prime Minister, being Sayyid Zia Tabataba’i [the original owner of the compound which is now home to the notorious Evin prison], a pro-British conservative politician.”
Ann Lambton never returned to Iran after 1970; she did not like the Shah’s White Revolution or the outcome of the land reform. In many ways, the government she helped to bring to power disappointed her. In her obituary, after praising her work as unmatched by anyone of her peers, a scholar who knew the language and the people of Iran, David Morgan writes of his mentor: “The outcome was that Mossadeq was forced out of office by the royalists, with the support of the US and Britain, and imprisoned. Nevertheless, she [Lambton] had little time for the Shah, a disdain that was fully reciprocated; and she was initially sympathetic to the revolutionaries of 1979, led by Ayatollah Khomeini, though soon disillusioned.” In a briefing to the foreign office, Miss Lambton as she was called, had concluded that Americans "lack our experience or the psychological insight" on Iran. Was she right?
Why is Iran going through so much suffering and turmoil? Did foreign politicians and their advisors make mistakes in their judgment or did they know what they were doing? Even though PM Mosaddeq tactically allied with Ayatollah Kashani--the spiritual leader of many of today’s clergymen who later decided to support the Shah--he was a firm believer in the separation of state and religion. He knew the devastating impact religion could have if it is incorporated into daily life and politics. He knew that when given power and authority, the clerical establishment, especially the Shi’a, will be the worst kind of statesmen. When someone proposed Mehdi Bazargan (who later became the provisional Prime Minister after 1979) as his Minister of Culture, he rejected the idea, saying that if Bazargan, because of his religiosity was put in this position, he would put a scarf on every Iranian girl and woman. He respected the late Bazargan who was a man of integrity, but not for that post. His vision was correct. He had read and lived the history of Iran.
Today, there is a serious discourse among Iranian intellectuals, secularists as well as religiously minded ones, about whether Iran should have a secular government or continue on a more moderate path of religious democracy. This discussion is even more relevant after the rise of the Green movement. Should a semi- religious state evolve if and when the concept of Velayat-e- Faqih is gone? I think that advocates of the idea of a religious state, members of Washington think-tanks or scholars, are mistaken to advise their governments that Iran is better off under religious rule. I believe that today, many Iranians, with the exception of the supporters of the hardliners- Ahmadi Nejad, Bassij and the Revolutionary Guards -have lost their love affair with an Islamic state, if they ever had one.
The question we face is what went wrong in Iran? Could the rule of the clerics have been avoided? And how can we arrive at a consensus on the best form of government for Iran? These questions are pressing both from the perspective of leftist and liberal intellectuals as well as of those religious scholars who believed or still believe that a theocracy or even a semi-progressive religious state can be a viable model of governance. But more importantly, the impasse remains with the West, notably America and Britain, who have interfered in Iranian politics in various capacities by ignoring and undermining nationalist/ secular forces. They, more than any other Western power, should take the blame for helping Khomeini come to power and throttle an entire society under his reactionary idea of an “Islamic government.”
That is not a conspiracy theory as many of us Middle Easterners are accustomed to believe in but the stuff of reality: if the West had cooperated with nationalist and secular forces in Iran, this tragedy in Iran could possibly have been avoided. But the West was shortsighted; Reagan called the Mujahedin freedom fighters and allied with them against the atheist Soviet Union; today’s Taliban might have never come to power and the Afghan nation might have been spared much mayhem and misery if the Americans had not supported these reactionary forces. In Iran too, in its greed for profit and in its drive to stop the influence of the “left,” the West turned its back on its real and potential partners. Today, the Iranian saga continues.
Ann Lambton said that she would never go to Iran if she had to wear the hejab. “I have never worn a chador in my life, and I do not intend to start now”, she said. Lambton maybe resting in peace in her grave somewhere in the English countryside, but today, the children of Iran are paying the price; most of the times, their graves are not even marked and their women have had to wear the hejab since 1979.
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Ms. Amini
by Free on Sun Apr 18, 2010 03:13 PM PDTwrites, "He came from royalty and was born into wealth but wealth did not matter to him."
Yeah, the subject of money is not an issue to those who have it in bunches from birth. It helps to have it, though, otherwise you have to always think about getting it.
There have been a lot of patriotic Iranians in the history of Iran, but why do you always try to cover up Mossadegh's disasterous premiership with tales of his honesty and integrity. He was a lousy prime minister -- I don't care that he was an exceedingly honest person. I rather have a capable politician like his cousin for example, Ahmad Qavam, who perhaps wasn't as honest as Mossadegh, but who could handle the job on an international stage.
All of your sweeping of Mossadegh's monumental incompetence under the rug of honor and honesty will not help you re-write history.
Was the man honest beyond compare? YES!
Was he an amateur, incompetent prime minister? Equally YES!
So what? One can almost say the same about Mehdi Bazargan, who was an exceedingly honest and pious Muslim, but an incompetent baffoon as a prime minister in the provisional government. Do we want honesty at the expense of competence? No! We want BOTH!
But you can keep on worshipping your personal Valentino, Ms. Desmond. I think Cecil B. Demille is almost ready for your close up...
attacks vs. dialogue
by Fariba Amini on Sun Apr 18, 2010 09:12 AM PDTI wanted to keep quiet on this post but I guess it's hard to see so many good comments and some terrible personal attacks and sit and stay quiet. I am not known for that !
Ms. Rousta, whoever she or he maybe, has a huge, big, enormous chip on her/his shoulder ; I don't know why she/he is against me or why this person instead of engaging in civil dialogue makes stupid comments such as "well now she knows how to write Mosaddeq." Well first of all FYI, Mosaddeq is written is so many differnt ways even by well known scholars that there is no single best way. Secondly, I am proud that my writing and its content have gotten better and better over the years. We are always learning, remember ze gahvareh ta goor danesh bejouy.
Am I a Mosaddeqi ? Yes you bit you. Am I proud of it ? Yes, indeed.
Let me read to you a rough translation of part of an interview with the oral history project of Harvard done in 1983 with my father (the entire interview/memoir is now under publication)
Q- Mr. Amini, what is it about Mosaddeq. when you think about him, that makes him a person you admire both personally and politically?
A- More than anything else, I remember his humanity, his integrity, the fact that he was ultra careful and paid attention to detail, especially when it came to financial things ; in fact to the extent that it was too much. He was extremely honest when it came to the question of money, his belief in honest government . He came from royalty and was born into wealth but wealth did not matter to him. His motherr was Najmeh Saltanaeh , sister of Farmanfarma and his father was a minister of court and he was born in silk.. But he lived simply. he paid for his travels, never accepted any funds from the govt while he was PM, paid for all his trips even to the Hague. Always paid his taxes, making sure he is never late. But most importantly what I know and admire in him is his total devotion to Iran and his unconditional love for Iran."
What did the Shah and his entourage do??!!! and what did the Kashani sons do? and what did so many clerics have done so far?
Take money out of the pocket of citizens of Iran, filling their own pockets.
You be the judge!!
To Su and many others like her
by Marjan Zahed Kindersley on Sun Apr 18, 2010 09:08 AM PDTThis (yours) sort of comment keeps cropping up:
"This is amazing. You are living in the West and trying to determine what is good for iranians in Iran."
Once and for all - A person has the right to express an informed opinion about the Stone Age without living in it!
To Ms Amini, thank you for the well-written article, the contents of which I am still mulling over, especially because I am heavily inclined towards proportional representation....(it also reminds me of a documentary. Was there something similar on BBC's Radio 4?)
last time Fred "challenged" me and ranted about "islamist liars"
by Q on Sun Apr 18, 2010 03:11 AM PDThe was himself exposed as a liar in a mere 30 seconds. See for yourself.
//iranian.com/main/blog/fred/my-inalienab...
Fred and his games, however, bore me now.
The phrase from the article
Why is looking back at history at this juncture so important not just for Iran but the entire Middle East? Why is it that the past always comes back to haunt us?
finds a whole new meaning!
capt_ayhab Jaan Thanks for proving my point ;0)
by Darius Kadivar on Sun Apr 18, 2010 01:52 AM PDTYou just did what You accuse me of doing !
Refering To Your Own Blogs to sustain your arguments !
Some Twisted Logic You have ... Or is just Jealousy No Doubt ? ...
DK
PS: Oh and No Need to answer back and fro, I am not interested in debating with your likes !
Gentleman of the publisher has a point
by capt_ayhab on Sat Apr 17, 2010 03:56 PM PDTMr. Kadivar points out[capt_ayhab Not Everyone Blogs for Silly Reasons like You].
Let us review few of my topics, 100% relevant to this very same thread:
//iranian.com/main/blog/capt-ayhab/thinking-b...
//iranian.com/main/blog/capt-ayhab/similariti...
//iranian.com/main/blog/capt-ayhab/think-tank...
And many more.
Point of the matter is not what the writer believes in, nor is it what readers believes in, BUT it is in stating the facts regardless of our personal convictions. So as long as we do not believe in one common goal of ending the suffering in the world we always are going to remain as outcast fringes of main society.
Any form, as clearly demonstrated by so many devotees of the Reza Pahlavi, of blind devotion, to anyone and any ideology is doomed form the get go. Repetition and big lies will not make it right.
-YT
Have something to say?
by Jahanshah Javid on Sat Apr 17, 2010 03:30 PM PDTNo more off-topic comments, please.
Kadivar jaan a clip for you!
by marhoum Kharmagas on Sat Apr 17, 2010 03:13 PM PDTFrom Princess bride:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbqv3MwwVd8&feature...
It should calm you down.
Referendum? You bet
by capt_ayhab on Sat Apr 17, 2010 03:13 PM PDTYou bet.......... hold one right now, then Reza Pahlavi will go back to Iran, kick some akhund @ss and take names, get everything cleaned up, restore prosperity and freedom of yet another RASTAKHIEEZ e MELI.
Once he is done in lets say 2 months, we will all go back and worship our savior Reza Pahlavi.
BUT.............
Till such time, What is he waiting for? a Miracle?
Only one glitch, He does not know how
-YT
Nope capt_ayhab Jaan You are not Complicated at all ...
by Darius Kadivar on Sat Apr 17, 2010 03:13 PM PDTAt your level of Education that is :
Samad Madrese:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAw5PepmAp4&feature=related
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooool
Silly is what silly says
by capt_ayhab on Sat Apr 17, 2010 03:07 PM PDTAny more clips? which no one watches but you?
-YT
Hopefully I am not being too complicated for you!
capt_ayhab Not Everyone Blogs for Silly Reasons like You
by Darius Kadivar on Sat Apr 17, 2010 03:04 PM PDTAll the more that You tend to Get Your LINKS Wrong if you see what I mean ...
//iranian.com/main/blog/capt-ayhab/crown-prince-wana-be-reza-pahlavi
The Purpose of Blogging is Precisely to Use them as REFERENCES to counter YOUR Silly Distortions in Such Silly Arguments Triggered by Your likes and to Deaf Ears :
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMG97tPZn1o
Oh And Do Keep Up With Your Silly Blogs:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqhlQfXUk7w
I was Told They are Recruiting lately but not sure about the pay given that You need to draw substantial Hits !
Take Care Mon Cher ...
Referendum
by benross on Sat Apr 17, 2010 03:02 PM PDTI think if we focus on referendum, each Iranian will find its place on either side of the issue. This will create less tension and more dialogue.
Oh and Mammad Do send my Regards to Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich ;0)
by Darius Kadivar on Sat Apr 17, 2010 02:53 PM PDTLOL
IRI APOLOGISTS OUT IN FULL FORCE !
By the Way Mammad Are You Mohamed Sahimi ? ;0)
by Darius Kadivar on Sat Apr 17, 2010 02:49 PM PDTJust wondering ...
//www.opposingviews.com/users/muhammad-sahimi
And Good and Obedient Member Contributor of CASMII:
//www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/5645
and Close advisor to Shirin Ebadi and the Islamic Reformist Think Tanks:
//www.news.cornell.edu/Stories/May05/Ebadi.cover.lm.html
In that Case I am not surprised by Mammad's Views ...
Maybe YOU Mammad Can Confirm or Deny My Guess ? ...
Recommended Reading:
Dream onMonarchists and international terrorism By Mohammad Sahimi
Recommended Watching:
Mehdi Bazargan and the controversial legacy of Iran's Islamic intellectual movement
!
by capt_ayhab on Sat Apr 17, 2010 02:54 PM PDTcliché
something (as a menu item) that has become overly
familiar or commonplace .
Repetitious:
tediously repeating .
Tediously:
Boring to hell.
Examples:
See Mr. Kadivar's posts and comments.
analogy:
Make a big lie, repeat it many number of times and some will begin to believe it.
Support Materials:
50 year old clips of Fereydoun Farokhzad and irrelevant songs by Googoosh.
-YT
The Sheykh and the ....
by Farah Rusta on Sat Apr 17, 2010 03:45 PM PDTشیخی به زنی فاحشه گفتا مستی
هر لحظه به دام دگری پــا بستی
گفتا شیخا هر آن چه گویی هستم
آیا تو چنان که می نمایی هستی
I am no defender of Fred, as I am sure he is capable of defending himself if he so chooses. But reading comments by Mammad, reminded me of the above quatrain by Khayyam.
When one hears such attributes as "patriotic" used for people like Bazargan, one is reminded of the famous words of Samuel Johnson:
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."
In coining the above statement, I am sure Johnson must have had the likes Bazargan in mind who stood by and watched the senseless killings and executions, massacres of Kurds and other ethnic minorities by the likes of Mustafa Chamran and Co, (another role model for Mammad no doubt) and many other atrocities without tendering his resignation in protest and stayed in his post until the destroyer vessel of the regime was firmly anchored down and began to fire its deadly cargo on the defenceless people of Iran. Three decades later and they are not still out of ammunition.
But perhaps by the standards of Bazargan's lovers, Mammad for instance, the number of people who lost their lives under the premiership of Mr Bazargan would not amount to "much bloodshed."
The question the likes of Mammad should answer is how much bloodshed is not much bloodshed to them when they say:"Ask them about how to confront, without much bloodshed, a regime that is armed to the teeth ...".Tens, hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands or more?
FR
Love to see How IRI Apologists Distorting the Article's subject
by Darius Kadivar on Sat Apr 17, 2010 02:37 PM PDTIt's About Theocracy vs. Democracy ...
Does That Ring a Bell ? Hello ? ...
It's Not about Gaza, Israel, AIPAC, NIAC or The Palestinian Cause ...
Don't Think We Haven't Understood Your Strategy All these Years ! ... LOL
Slogans in Iran :
Nah Gazeh Nah Lobnan Faghat Mellateh Iran:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSpG7EH6yrA
Nah Gazeh Nah Lobnan Janam Fedayeh Iran:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr8YrAx21GE
"Corruption on earth,espionage,relations w/Israel":
//iranian.com/main/news/2010/04/11-1
IRAN TO IRANIANS OF ALL FAITH AND ETHINIC MINORITIES !
Zoroastrian discrimination under IRI:
Prominent Zoroastrian and former Chair of Pahlavi University in Iran under Imperial Iran, Dr. Farhang Mehr asks a constitutional question to Khatami, and askes him when will Islamic Republic stop discriminating against religious minorities like Zoroastrians?:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=djArOFSkhD8
Christian Discrimination Under IRI:
HISTORY OF VIOLENCE: Vendetta Against Anglican Bishop in Iran (1980)
Jewish Discrimination Under IRI :
From Babylon To Beverly Hills: Jews Leaving Iran because of Revolution:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0id2Yxcw59Q
Conversations with History: Roya Hakkakian (watch Here):
IRI executes Ali Ashtari and Iranian Jew in Shiraz on Charges of Espionage (JTA)
IRI Arrests Blogfather Hossein Derakhshan on grounds of Visiting Israel and spying (Haaretz)
I don't blame the AIPAC sycophant! (to Mammad)
by marhoum Kharmagas on Sat Apr 17, 2010 02:29 PM PDTMammad, I don't blame the sycophant for hating Shariati, and Bazargan although they are gone. I also don't blame him for hating the guy who is not gone and said:
"The crux of the issue about Iran's nuclear program is, in my opinion, as follows: If Iran has the ability to make the bomb on a short notice,
it becomes unattackable. That is not something that the US and Israel
can tolerate. They want to be the hegemone of the Middle East."
The crux of his problems is with these kind of ideas.
Mein Fraüd, the main cyber liar
by Mardom Mazloom on Sat Apr 17, 2010 02:09 PM PDTMein Fraüd wants a proof of him being or not
- an anti-iranian
Proof: Posting brain-washed blogs EVERY day asking for blind sanctions which at the end impoverish Iranian kids/men/women is an act of hatemongering against Iranians.
- a warmonger
Proof: Blind sanctions which ended in War against Iraq will have also the same result for Iran. People who sit and wait for blind sanctions are in fact warmongers, in some sense they take their pleasure to see skeletons be bombed.
AIPAC Mission Statement
by capt_ayhab on Sat Apr 17, 2010 02:01 PM PDTKeep the world in chaos.
-YT
Winner of the hate throphy = Fred the truth teller[not]
by capt_ayhab on Sat Apr 17, 2010 01:58 PM PDTFor repeating the word [Islamist Liar] total of 8 times in one comment alone.
Join the Army Fred.
-YT
P/S The word Islamist does not exist, and is only side effect of what ever it is that Fred and alike smoke[inject] on a daily basis.
Islamist liar
by Fred on Sat Apr 17, 2010 01:48 PM PDTIslamist nuke lobbyist for the Islamist Rapists in part says:
“He is the worst liar I have known in the cyberspace, and a warmonger.”
Prove it Islamist liar!
The Islamist liar issues another death fatwa by saying:
"He is anti-Iran and Iranians, and anti-Muslims"
Prove it Islmaist liar!
Islamist liar who is earning a living thanks to NIOC grant says:
“this one is utterly shallow, knows nothing, and can be (and has been) bought.”
Prove it Islamist liar!
Islamist nuke lobbyist for the Islamist Rapists says:
“One must be a real coward to be afraid of a man who has been dead for 34 years. One must be a real coward to constantly attack a patriot like Bazargan who has been dead for 15 years!”
In that case not a word should be written about Hitler, your murderous Imam Khomeini and certainly not a word about your charlatan Ali Shariati, what Islamist logic you got Islamist liar!
Islamist nuke lobbyist for the Islamist Rapists says:
“Because he is an utter liar (he often forgets what he has said in one blog when he writes another blog; he even forgot in one blog what the title of his blog was!)”
Prove it Islamist liar!
And I see you don’t go close to what Mossadegh said about your clueless Bazargan.
BTW Islamist liar, you still have not answered the question about the rumor that your buddy, Lady Ebadi’s brother working in charlatan Khatami’s office.
Bazargan and Mossadegh
by Mardom Mazloom on Sat Apr 17, 2010 01:13 PM PDTMossadegh chose Bazargan as his first president of the board of the very sensitive national oil industry. Bazargan was honest, lived simply and was never tempted by money on all of his top economical jobs. In different occasions, Mossadegh had publicly praised this quality and had a high respect for this great man.
Marhoum Kharmagas
by Mammad on Sat Apr 17, 2010 01:03 PM PDT1. Freddo C is a barking dog of AIPAC. He does not even hide it anymore! He now brags brazenly about "AIPAC has done it again!" He is anti-Iran and Iranians, and anti-Muslims. He is the worst liar I have known in the cyberspace, and a warmonger.
You know why I have been calling him Freddo C? Because he reminds me of Freddo Coreleon of Godfather movie. Just like that Freddo, this one is also a member of a Mafia, a Mafia that advocates war and destruction on Iran. Just like that Freddo, this one is utterly shallow, knows nothing, and can be (and has been) bought. And just like that Freddo who did not have loyalty, neither does this one to Iran and Iranians!
Freddo C constantly barks about Shariati and Bazargan. Ask him to write a two page critique of one of Shariati's books and he cannot, because just like Freddo Coreleon he can only do things as his masters tell him; otherwise, he has no ability to think on his own and I am certain that he has never read even a few pages of what Shariati said and wrote about!
One must be a real coward to be afraid of a man who has been dead for 34 years. One must be a real coward to constantly attack a patriot like Bazargan who has been dead for 15 years!
Because he is an utter liar (he often forgets what he has said in one blog when he writes another blog; he even forgot in one blog what the title of his blog was!), he thinks everyone else is like him, just like Freddo Coreleon. He thinks that when I say Bazargan drafted a democratic constitution, I lie. JARAS recently compared some of the articles of Bazargan's draft with the present one, although it did not post the full text. So, they are also liar I suppose!
So, who cares what he barks about!! Let him bark. Aside from a few of his type, he is now known to everyone.
2. We can fantasize at home while commenting on Iranian.com about a regime change, a referendum, about a monarchy, etc., but ask any of these fantasts to propose a practical way of realizing their fantasy, and they could not write coherently a simple paragraph. Ask them about how to confront, without much bloodshed, a regime that is armed to the teeth, has a social, albeit narrow, base, and controls all resources of a vast and rich nation, none of the fantasts could utter a few comprehensible sentences. There is a difference between fantasizing and having a practical solution.
3. Of course, those like Freddo C, who want war on Iran - remember that even sanctions are economic war that kills, as the sanctions on Iraq in the 1990s killed 500,000 children and eventually led to military war - do not give a hoot to what might happen to Iran and Iranians. Why should he? He is paid by someone else, and someone comes along with a higher bid, he will switch!
Mammad
MK: agreed about Mammad.
by vildemose on Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:09 AM PDTMK: agreed about Mammad. AIPAC's real mission is to maintain the reactionary mullahs in place but weakend. That is just my humble opinion.
Benross jan: Thank you for clarifiying. I hear what you're saying. The platform inside should inherently be different than the opposition's platform outside but share the same objectives. However, I don't think we have reached that stage to even have a coherent and unifyuing platform of anykind, outside or inside...
No dear vildemose. You know
by benross on Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:28 AM PDTNo dear vildemose. You know I didn't call you an apologist. I simply asked you to describe the becoming of a civil war, so that we could avoid it. Do we want a regime change or not? This is what should be clarified first. Then we go about it in a way to avoid bloodshed.
What I'm advocating is a referendum. Is this your understanding of bloodshed? and I must add, you aside, for all those apologists and rotten anti-imperialists who want to rescue IRI, I'm just showing exactly the way. How could you possibly advocate a 'reform' within IRI -as a permanent and stable solution, therefore without bloodshed- without getting it approved by a referendum?
People don't want a bloodshed and people want a regime change. We should unite and organize in a way to respond to both.
I'm not advocating to antagonize 'green'. Green is what it is, within the context of inside the country. But we are not inside the country are we? Shouldn't there be any difference in clarity of arguments?
if likes of Mammad join the endangered spices (to Vildee)
by marhoum Kharmagas on Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:14 AM PDT"Mammad wants to avoid a civil war not to repackage the IRI."
That is true. Also if likes of Mammad (progressive patriotic greens) join the endangered spices among the greens, even if the greens come to power, once all the excitement is over, Iran will at best become another Egypt for sometime to come. The AIPAC sycophant is very well aware of that, him and his masters need to make sure if there is a change in Iran likes of Mammad are kept out, that is why he (the sycophant) is so obsessed with Mammad.....
benross jan: Are you calling
by vildemose on Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:07 AM PDTbenross jan: Are you calling me an IRI apologist?? I hear it from my family back home who are vehmently against the IRI and its rule since day one but don't want a bloodshed. According to them if there is a revolution in Iran, it would be brother against brother, families against families and they want to avoid that at all costs.
vildemose
by benross on Sat Apr 17, 2010 09:49 AM PDTIt is high time to describe the making of a civil war, step by step, in order to avoid it. As it sounds now, it is more like scare tactics launched by IRI and its apologists.