IDEAS

To choose from

Exhibitioner Muslim family or the gay couple ?

It's o.k with me .; as long as neither one of them  wants to invvite my family  to their places.  Maziar

Mg

:0)Love you man! Did I just say that? ;0)Good night bro!

Midwesty jan

rates, Numbers. have it your way. Point is, gays with AIDS do not pose as huge a risk/burden to our Healthcare Industry as  Heterosexuals with the same disease do.

Khyalet rahat shod hala?:))

MG

You are confusing rate with numbers20% of hetros with aids makes about 1.2 billion people.So you didn't mean rate, did you?

Shooting myself in the foot

That is what happens when you get old

I meant the rate washigher among HETEROSEXUALS not the othe way around. :)))

Midwesty is just having fun right?:) He is doing Mezah with us.

Midwesty

Both MG and I responded to your loaded questions. Happy now? The issue of Aids is a red herring.. The Aids rate among lesbians is nearly 0 so I guess being a lesbian is fine. Just gay men are a problem by your logic huh. Desperate to justify your hate.

Midwesty

The AIDS rate is much higher amongst Homosexuals. That myth had been debunked eons ago, Where have you beenbuddy?

20% of gays have aids

Couldn't be possible the cost of health care for the gays would save thausands of kids lives?

Rejecting Homosexuality

Since I was a kid, I always heard about 'Starving kids in Africa', every time there was some food left on my plate I didn't like.

A real crisis, I always thought.

Those of us who are charitable, have donated to help saving those kids.

Sadly, millions die every year.

Ironically, the ones who survive, keep making babies, many of whom die from hunger.

It never stops!

The more you save, the more starve.

I am not sure if it ever stops.

The huge part of the African population, has taken Midwesty's advice to the heart, and have said NO, to homosexuality.

Mobaarakeh!

Should't we PROMOTE homosexuality in these societies, as a way of avoiding human suffering and starvation ?

Just a thought ;-)

Midwesty

Authoritative voice? LOL. And you complain about me twisting your words and convoluting them? I never mentioned a word about Having to respect them as a legal doctrine or else. or because i said so,I did say we have to But perhaps i should have been more careful  and said Ought to. Please don't grab my F and run to farah abad or Formosa Beach ??:))

I ANSWERED your questions. Let's not play this "You have not replied to my question" game again. Ok? Not nice. Been seen around this website for too long. Just know that i answered your questions. If you don't accept them then that is a whole another ballgame.

What trick? Why should they be restricted in promoting their agenda? because YOU say so? Now you see who is getting biased and opinionated and going the "i say so" route? has it occured to you that people or at least some of them may just like whatthey preach or adopt as their mandate? Like Ali p said. What is wrong with letting a small % of our population feel free to be what they want to be in terms of their Sexual orientation?

Conservative refuse a lotta thing because they are stupid. that is why. This is not the place for you to Justify this behavior. Your tactics are so weak. Besides. what "pressure" are you talking about. for allwe know gays and lesbians are still practically ostracize by the society in specific ways and places, and a lot of times their "evil" leaders have their hands tied. So what are you talking about??!!

Midwesty

You directed the question to MG not me. But since you asked here is the best I know:

1- Is homosexuality a choice?

No the orientation is not a  matter of choice; it is in people's nature. However it gets more complicated. In addition to straight and gay people there are bisexuals who may have more of a choice in which way they go. In reality there is a continuum of orientation. People may be straight; gay or somewhere in between. Therefore while the make up is not by choice some have more options as how to act. 

Plus everyone has the option of being celibate and thus cover up their orientation. This option does not work real well as you see with the Catholic Church scandals.

2- Is it promotable?

What do you mean by promotable? If you mean gay rights it can be"promoted" as a cause sure people promote gay rights. If you mean get other people to join then they can obviously get other gay people to come out.In addition there are the bisexuals. Having an open gay society may cause some bisexuals to go for the gay relation if it is available and gives them happiness. In a more restrictive society the same people may pick the heterosexual relationship. Thus not bother with the gay option.

MG jan,

Talking with an authoritative voice won't fix any problem. "Just respect because I said so", won't do it either. Government by commanding us to respect the gays' "right" won't make us to respect them bro! If you want that to happen it should be through discussions like this.

So, again if you don't want to answer my two simple questions, it's fine but I can't go on reiterate what I've clearly stated before.

However, you are smart for not answering  my questions, because if you really think a bit deeper about those two questions you'll realize that the both answers can't exist at the same time.

The gay politicians are clearly tricking people by pushing their agendas through foul cry of answer to the question 1 to get more of the positive answer to question 2.

That's why conservatives are very hesitant to give in to the pressure coming from the gays' "right" leaders! 

H'mmmmmmmm Don't know what to make of this article BUT

I feel lik ethis fellow muslim has mixed up priorities. I parallel his stance to a hypothetical situation where few million people are at risk of getting swept away with a tsunami and being ignored while I feel like I need to help few people who prefer to live on a mountain top for a better view at the risk of loosing their lives for natural radon gas emission.

I mean have we lost our senses? 

I do not mean homos do not deserve to live. I think in the eye of God, they are also his creation and deserve to be considered at equal rights as long as they do not promote and raise corruption which then should be treated just like regular citizens. Unfortunately, I think "special interest groups" including gays are treated in "special" way and often they have more favorable rights tha regular people. I think this is not fair.

Peace and justice for all on Earth;

Agha jan

This is what you said in a comment right before the one you quoted:

Rejecting homosexuality is fundamental and existential and tolerating homosexuals is in accordance to our fundamental identity. (As a contradiction , think how animals would reject one of their own if that specie was different? We can't act like animals because we.

You see the word "species" in there so clearly?  I mean, why would you even think of putting this issue in the context of How animals live their lives? I know they have homosexual tendencies as well, but we are talkinghere about Us the humans.

Regarding the answers that i gave you: you did not really grasp it. as you noticed, i really did not give you a direct and definite answer Why? because what you asked was really not a decent question. the point i was making was that it does not matter how we answer this question that is why i put them all in a combinatorial manner. No matter which way you go, bottom line is that you have to accept and respect homosexuals. Period.

I know Gays say they have no choice. What else did you think i had meant by my statement??!!!

VPK,

Why are you dancing around the subject. Just answer a yes or no to my previous questions.

Not choice

With all the discrimination people face why would someone chose to be gay in Iran? Or in a large number of societies? Do they want to be: ridiculed; ostracized; raped; stoned; whipped and subject to all kinds of harrasment and why. The logical reasoning is that it is not by choice

Let's answer your last concern first...

*****You said: "You are making such outrageous comparisons, by claiming that we should
not be like animals who reject members of different species???!!"

-------Are you intentionally convoluting my statement or you honestly didn't get it? This is what I said: We shouldn't be like animals who reject one of their owns because they are different. (Although my statement is more likely to be offending to animals than humans since some animals are more social than some of humans and some humans are more vicious than animals). 

******"A choice... Promotable... yes no maybe so, all of the above and non of
the above all at the same time".

--------That's not what homosexuals claim. They say they have no choice.

Gharbe Mianeh jan

A choice... Promotable... yes no maybe so, all of the above and non of the above all at the same time. 

Regardless of how i answer any of these questions, you need to keep in mind that those who are gay deserve the right to be respected. You are making such outrageous comparisons, by claiming that we should not be like animals who reject members of different species???!! what do you mean by that? or other claims of that nature. Your entire premise for your argument is invalid and Illogical. Homosexuality can not exist without Homosexuals expressing it. That does not even make any sense! So we can not accept the former based on the logic that comes from our core being while rejecting the latter!

MG jan,

Please answer these questions for me as yes or no:

1- Is homosexuality a choice?

2- Is it promotable?

Tolerance

To suggest that we should reject homosexuality without having to

 to do so with the homosexual is a misstatement. It can not even exist.

VPK

Unmanageable?? as in how? Population always manages itself thorugh the Life and death cycle. So there is always a balance.

Homosexuaslity as a feedback loop

Midwesty points out something we may have missed. Homosexuality is a natural way for population to maintain itself. Nature dictates that when the population becomes unmanageable more people practice homosexuality thus preventing over population. 

Disclaimer: for the humor challenged this is a bit tongue in cheek !

VPK

The Logic?

the Logic that is being described here, resemble more of somthing of Dogma than any logic! 

Our entire notion of what is fundamental to our existence and what is more close to the core of our being, more precisely what is right and normal and what is wrong or abnormal, Is absolutely arbitrary, No one has ever been able to Succinctly and meaninfully define such rules and concepts. That is why there are debate over all these issues such as homosexuality.

If our society had learned to accept gays for who they are, and not out of coertion that "we tolerate you" these poor teenagers would not have to end their lives the way they did so devestatingly. It is not Up to Us to define what is normal and abnormal for other people and If we are really above animals on this and when it comes to being Logical, we respect others for whothey are or they want to be. We would be applying our logic when we respect their choice and the privacy for them to exercise that choice. I don't see anything so complicated about that there to understand!

That is the ultimate respect and nothing else would even matter.

Ali P jan,

I am sitting in the library and on the floor that I am studying I am the only male. That's why I haven't accomplished zilch since I've checked in!

Have a good one!

Chakereem!

Midwestey jaan

It is Sat. nite.

Shouldn't you be out there, trying to procreate?

Are you abnormal for being here on line, instead, on this not-happening site?

;-)

Have a good one,

Ali P.

Ali P jan, Homosextuality...

is logically abnormal because it's different, it goes against the fundamental rule of life and it is counted as an exception scientifically.

In science we have a general population on one side and exceptions on the other. We call those exception abnormal, no matter how inconvenient this title would sound.

The moment we fake an abnormality to a normalcy we have cheated the logic and our last survival tool whether there is one gay on earth or millions.

that quote..

vpk     I think there is a soft plan on reducing the entitlements that Americans been recieving all along thanks to 14 ammendments.

And by gathering supporters on either issues (personal choices,personal believes...) once voted by majority the RIGHTS are gone .

Personally I believe being gay or believing any... should remain a PERSONAL issue and there is no need for public votes.          Maziar

Midwesty jaan

You say:

"If there were 6.5 billion gays on earth, after a few decades or
centuries, there wouldn't be any human beings left to call each other
normal or otherwise."

Who says humans should adopt a lifestyle, collectively?

If I choose not to have any kids, would I be "abnormal", because if EVERYONE WAS TO FOLLOW MY MODEL, there wouldn't be any human beings left to call each other
normal or otherwise ?

No. There is no shortage of people, having babies. Everyone to his own.

There are enough heterosexuals, to keep human species alive on earth (as glorious of a premise as it may be).

We can afford to have a few percentage of the population go babyless, or gay, without calling them "abnormal".

Yours,

Ali P.

Normal and natural...

is defined by logic. If 6.5 billion people were lame and the rest could run like a Cheetah then to that 6.5 billion people those 500,00 people were abnormal.

However logic has taken us to the top of the food chain despite of our physical weaknesses. If there were 6.5 billion gays on earth, after a few decades or centuries, there wouldn't be any human beings left to call each other normal or otherwise (logic as a tool for survival).

We have no choice to accept homosexuality as abnormal because it goes against our core existence. However this logic is necessary but not sufficient in order to identify ourselves as humans and distinct ourselves from other animals (because as you saw logic is rather a tool than the truth), therefore we must be tolerant towards gays! (since we don't know the whole truth)

Rejecting homosexuality is fundamental and existential and tolerating homosexuals is in accordance to our fundamental identity. (As a contradiction , think how animals would reject one of their own if that specie was different? We can't act like animals because we have logic). 

So rejecting homosexuality shouldn't mean rejecting the homosexuals.

Dear Kholafa

I find wearing a hejab and praying 5 times a day to some remote location abnormal. I find chanting in Arabic both incomprehensible and abnormal. I also find thinking that God lives in some cube in Mecca very abnormal. I don't advocate violence against people doing this stuff though. But they advocate violence against me. 

What do you say to this.

Definition of being normal

Some die-hard vegetarians consider my normal(?) diet as unnatural. One can not cut corners in order to fit a social issue into the realm of normalcy.

Do I feel abnormal when I'm in the company my gay friends? No.

Do I consider their lifestyle as abnormal? Yes.

Remember that I strongly advocate tolerance and understanding. I am against hatred and violence against gays.