Iranian of the Day

Petition for a Legal action against Murders.

//www.gopetition.com/petitions/to-support-the-demand-of-reza-pahlavi-ot-prosecute-kham.html

Re "khodeti'

Look RG, I don't give a damn who you support or oppose, for that's your prorogative! However, not only you, but not even Shaban Bimokh himself can brow-beat or intimidate me into refraining from expressing my critical views on RP or anyone else! While it's amusing to me that you are using your Stalinesque, overbearing, bully attitude to "defend the honour" of RP (as if he does not have enough lackies on his own), I have no more interest in having these childish exchanges with you!

Have a nice life!!!

Oh, Deari arj is resorting to name calling now :)

 Here how this particular deari, signing under the name Arj,  attacks me for commending RP for his stance on Human rights abuse in Iran by the Fascist islamist Regime: 

"RG,  Get a grip, every other word you utter is a slogan! With that mob mentality of yours, you are trying so hard to fit into the expat pop-culture that the more you shout slogans the less sense they make! "

Now this deari, sneaky arj knows darn well that the issue is a Human Rights issue and has nothing to do with RP let alone his dead father! RP is obviously making himself very unpopular in certain quarters, first asking for Khamenei to be tried for human rights abuses, now talking about the subject of Human rights itself in Iran!

Deari Arj, unlike you, I dont blame your father for the sneaky character you are, all I say to you is: Khodeti! 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Arj: Just Khorma

Dear Arj, I am also beginning to sound like a broken record. Yes to claim the legacy of his father he needs to take the package. But there are two major issues:

• Is this the right time to bring these up? Right now we need to work together. Reconciliation may wait.
• RP no matter what is no responsible for things he did not do. 

Broken Record indeed ...

BROKEN RECORD: Woman on IRI TV “We're Only good at shouting slogans since Shah Left”

RP As The Heir!

The issue here is not RP being the heir to the throne or not, anymore. The issue seems to be a whole section of the Iranian society which supports RP. Regime's propagandists and those individuals who either don't know what democracy means or those who even fear the establishment of a democracy, that is establishing law and order in Iran, are either consciously or unconsciously helping the current regime In its efforts to prolong its murderous rule. This argument that RP has to account for everything that went on during the reign of his father, Mohammad Reza Shah, is only an excuse to stop any future formation of a coalition inclusive of all Iranian opposition forces. Such approach is a recipe for inaction. Arguments can be made against the participation of every single opposition group that is out there. But do we want to go there?

Khoda and Khorma

Dear VPK, I'm starting to sound like a broken record, so I try to make this as brief as possible! As 'you can not have your cake and eat it,' RP can not claim to be the heir to the throne, and at the same time ignore the rsponsibilities that come with such claim! Unless he's planning to run for president, in which case I might even consider voting for him -- depending on his platform and who he runs against!

P.S. When I said an undemocratic regime, however secular it may be, does not last, I meant in Iran and according to the current and frseeable future's circumstances. I'm sure there are nations in our vecinity that not only tolerate an undemocratic secular regime, but even a religious one! SO you don't have to go as far as Japan and China -- who have/had totally diffirent social dynamics!

Is it possible to force a system

Disclaimer: I am not endorsing dictatorship or HR violations. Just trying to debate the point Arj made below.

Arj mentioned: I can not overlook! Even if a secular government (or regime) imposes itself on Iranians without unconditional commitment to democracy and HR, I promise you that it will not last!

I have several examples of this not being true:

• China: has a dictatorship which has lasted for decades. It almost got overthrown. But government violently repressed the opposition and survived. Then is worked on improving the economy. That placated the masses stabilizing the regime.
• Japan and Germany: USA imposed a pacifist democracy on them. The Japanese constitution was pretty much dictated by the USA. It not only lasted but did really well.
• Imposition of Shia on Iran by force by the Safavid regime: Another one where force managed to over time change people. Shia was forced on Sunni; Jews and Zoroastrians. It was so successful that Ali and Hossain became household names. People still say "Ya Ali"!

These are examples from three distinct periods where a system was imposed by force. I am not saying it is a good thing or it is moral. But I am saying it is possible; and very contrary to what Arj said it may be successful and remain. 

Dear Arj

I read your post and will just speak for myself: yes it is very much personal. When someone I respect or love is harmed it is personal. Maybe you are a bigger man than me and it is not personal to you.

Now to the other points that you have made. I see no reason we cannot have democracy without opening old wounds. Democracy means elections and holding our present government accountable. Not a government 60 years ago. 

I know we did not have democracy with Reza Shah so what? I want Democracy now; and holding  dead Shahs does is not required. Violations of the past are gone we cannot change them. Violators before IRI are dead!  I want HR today not yesterday.

As Vildermose said we cannot dig up Shah and try him. Fine say we find him guilty; then what? Put it in a history book and be done with it. This is both divisive and the wrong time to do it. 

Better to make democracy now and hold today's representatives accountable. After we have a stable democracy people may do research on the past violations and publish them Please show me how and why is it necessary to get democracy. 

Regarding my statement about Pinochet. It is a different topic and I will make a separate post on it in a minute. This post is about why a real democracy is possible without reckoning  old issues. Specially from a regime 30+ years ago.

What revenge?!

Dear VPK, why are you trying to paint this as a personal, emotional issue, hence trivialize the issue of human rights altogehter?! You obviously haven't read my last post, for if you did, you'd see that I'm not talking about revenge, but rather accountability and commitment to the issue of human rights by whoever that is going to enter the political scene as a potential leadership candidate! That is not just about RP, but any individual!

That is the only way that our nation is going to snap out of this vicious cycle of violence it's stuck in! Lowering expectations just to replace IRI with a secular entity (as you have previously stated that you would even live with an Iranian version of Pinochet!) may work for you, but it doesn't for me! Do you understand that?! Secularity is defenitely a criterion to me, but commitment to democracy and especially HR is one that I can not overlook! Even if a secular government (or regime) imposes itself on Iranians without unconditional commitment to democracy and HR, I promise you that it will not last! There's no easy way for this! I understand that some of us are anxious to know; "are we ther yet?" But unfortunately we're not!

P.S. Again, if you had read my last post, you'd see that the individuals whom I listed -- and whose murder, torture and imprisonment are mere examples of the Pahlavi regimes' crimes and violations of HR -- could not possibly all be related to me! 

Arj

I want to hammer this a bit more to be clear. I am guessing you lost some good friends to the Shah: did you? I lost friends to the IRI and Mujaheddin. I lost a whole career to the revolution. Were you a part of that revolution? 

If so should I demand reckoning? I don't want reckoning or revenge; I want a future.  Regarding  people you mentioned. Golesorkhi may have been a hero to some. To me he was a nut job. I don't approve of execution but would have been worried about him.

There is enough blame to go around many times over. Remember you are not the only one with a grievance. I could blame the Marxists for loss of my family business. Should I sue all the Tudehi for damages: how very silly. Don't go there.

Dear Friends

Thanks you Amirparviz; G.R  and Vildermose.  Dear Arj I am with Vildemose. I think we have gone beyond "reckoning" and need reconstruction. Iranian nations must be renewed. Going back to pre-1979 is not going to help any.

I would not even bother with Khomeini at the point. What do you want with digging up the past. We got a present and future to worry about.  I have no interest in revenge but want to go ahead not back. Those who want revenge are going to be stuck in the past.

I know some of you had friends who were lost because of past things. My family and I lost 33 years of because of the revolution. Should we put the revolutionaries on trial also? That would be millions. Give it up and move on to the present.

Re reckoning

Dear vildemose, please, get a hold of your runaway emotions before making wild speculations, so you wouldn't then have to jump to crazy conclusions! I m not going to address your surreal scenarios, but about reckoning, I just tell you that when and if RP makes a claim to the defunct throne of kingdom, he automaically puts forth the issue of crimes and violations of HR as well as other issues that are associated with the previous Pahlavi regimes as 'national issues!' That is the moment of reckoning for him and all supporters of the Pahlavi regime, so they either condemn them and make a pledge not to repeat them (that is even if they want to be taken seriously as one of the contenders in Iranian political scene), or deny -- or even try to conceal the magnitude of --  what happened in that period of time! 

As for Khamenei, I believe he and some other IRI leaders whose crimes have afflicted people beyond our border, should be tried by ICJ, and the rest tried by national tribunals that carefully examine their crimes and rule accordingly (mind you that I'm against capital punishment)! I realize that that would cost the nation in terms of monetary and emotional values, but if we want closure, that's the bitter pill to swallow!

P.S. About reckoning at 1979, no! We did not get a chance to revisit all the crimes committed by the Pahlavi regimes -- notably against political prisoners! Hastily shooting a group of army generals (who may or may not have anything to do with those crimes) and overexposing the role of the religious political prisoners and their "plight" in Shah's prisons did not serve justice, but rather made a mockery of it! Indeed, there were many great secular thinkers and brave Iranians who perished in Shah's and Reza Shah's prisons that were never even once revisited and deliberately ignored by the Islamic revolutionary officials! Brave individuals like Dr. Arani, Mirzadeh Eshghghi and Farrokhi Yazdi (writers and Iran-lovers some of whose lips were sowed together by Reza Shah before execution), Golesorkhi and Daneshian who were poet and film maker -- who did not even know how to shoot a gun -- yet were executed for "plotting to assassinate the royal family," Jazani and many others who were shot in the back as "fugitives" while in the Savak Custody and many thousands others who were either murdered in cold blood or whose lives were ruined by lengthy imprisonments and systematic torture!

  in Iran between

  in Iran between 1925-1979 which would have to be revisited and closely examined when the moment of reckonning arrives

what kind of reckonning are you looking for?? Wasn't 1979 revolution the day of reckonning?? You want to exhume the late Shah's body (or his dead generals) and put him on trial??

What kind of reckonning do you envision for Khameni et al and his million man basij and zobshodeh?

Arj, it seems like you are looking for revenge not justice?.

A state of war only serves
as an excuse for domestic tyranny.

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Born December 11, 1918

It's a start

Alluding to and expressing regret over "the existence of torture during his father's reign," albeit a very small step, is nonetheless a good start by RP to set the records straight with regards to the crimes committed by the Pahlavi regimes! For torture is merely a small part of the systematic violation of human rights that took place in Iran between 1925-1979 which would have to be revisited and closely examined when the moment of reckonning arrives! This apologetic two liner -- in some obscure book -- could serve as a basic platform for RP to come clean and condemn the HR related crimes committed in that era out in the open!

VPK:

By that I meanall opposition forces that are, regardless of their differences, willing to join a coalition to free Iran and establish a secular democracy in Iran. Since I don't sympathize with any particular group my criteria for the creation of a coalition are as simple as you can get. As for the regime's cyber army, they are out there to sow the seeds of division among the opposition forces using all sorts of schemes.

VPk that was a great post

I mistrust the "intellectuals".  Democracy begins with equal voice for all.

Prominent Diaspora

I want to hammer this point over because it is very important. It is wonderful to be inclusive and I wish RP would be so. But I mistrust the "intellectuals". Specially in light of the damage they did in 1960s and 1970s.

What makes a person "intellectual". Do I need a graduate degree? Well many of us have them! I see no reason why they should get a "special" place. I grant you that many suffered at the hands of IRI. But that does not necessarily makes their ideas "good".

I specially mistrust the Islamic ones  who might try to give us a milder IRI. In short I am all for inclusiveness. However do not want the council hijacked by "activists". I want it to reflect the ideas of mainstream; sane and non radical Iranians.

Responses

• I don't realy mind what you name it but there needs to be an authority. Government in exile or transitional council whatever is fine with me!
• RP brings the benefit of "leader" or "mediator". Basically a person to bring together the group.
• G. R.: I don't know who and where you mean. I think RP needs to get as many people behind him as possible. He will not get all the people; it isn't possible. Regarding IRI propaganda I think they are pretty discredited.
• Amirparviz: the way that I see it diaspora are frustrated. Many would support anyone with a realistic possibility of ditching IRI.Therefore peoples loyalties are weak until firm results are seen.
• RP by his Ryal status has the benefit of recognition. If he writes an op-ed it gets published. If I write one it does not. He is able to put his status to good use.
• I am all for inclusiveness but I mistrust the "intellectuals". Yes include all but do not give them overly loud voices. Why should a "prominent" person get more voice than anyone else? Democracy begins with equal voice for all.

DK, Just A Thought!

Could it be that RP is going to the wrong places and the wrong people for support for his ideas? I ask that because I believe you're in the know about such things. I don't follow a lot of stuff. And let's not forget the power of IR's propaganda apparatus! Isn't a national reconciliation in order, if the objective of the opposition forces in diaspora is freeing Iran?

DK Agree with your post 100%

But knowing how Iranians are so divisive each time someone tries to
do something constructive and their lack of commitment and loyalty to
one another I am not too optimistic when it comes to Diaspora Iranians
in defining their priorities.  The first thing many who were attending RP 2's conference did barely
two months later was to support a totally unknown "Rich" and
"Megalomaniac" Iranian Presidential wannabe Amir Jahanchahi: "So True and so Sad"

government in exile too early How about a Transitional Council

Given that no one has agreed yet on the form of the future democratic government.

But a Transitional Council is apparently what RP 2 hopes to achieve like what the Syrians are doing right now ( they themselves inspired by the Libyans).

Except that RP 2 tried to do this as early as 2009 :

RESPONDING TO REZA's CALL: An Iranian Solidarnosc in the Making ...

But knowing how Iranians are so divisive each time someone tries to do something constructive and their lack of commitment and loyalty to one another I am not too optimistic when it comes to Diaspora Iranians in defining their priorities.

The first thing many who were attending RP 2's conference did barely two months later was to support a totally unknown "Rich" and "Megalomaniac" Iranian Presidential wannabe Amir Jahanchahi: 

BHL Gathers Secular Opposition in Paris (June 11th, 2010 )  

Amir Jahanchahi: Iranian Idiot of the Day | Iranian.com

I tell you our problem is not the lack of Leadership it's rather the fact that EVERYONE wants to lead.

That to me say's more about the lack of discipline when it comes to our Collective Mindsets and general behavior than our otherwise commendable Individual potentials and qualities within our community. 

If people would stop hailing every fellow ( male or female) they admire personally as their PREEEEZIIIIIIIDEEEEEENTEH Mahboub  and Focus instead that energy in asking them to work with RP 2 on a more constructive level :

ROYAL FORUM: Fareed Zakaria asks «Does America Need a Prime Minister ?» 

without questioning RP 2's Royal Status or at least his royal pedigree and title which after all is what makes him recognizable not only nationally but internationally.

Then maybe we will make some progress in the right direction. 

FED UP WITH POLITICAL CORRECTNESS: Ahmadinejad is NOT my Prime Minister !

That way we can be INCLUSIVE instead of EXCLUSIVE and everyone ranging from prominent diaspora members ranging from  Shirin Ebadi to intellectuals like Ramin Jahanbegloo, Shadi Sadre, Mehrangiz Kar or even Abbas Milani or anyother intellectual or activist could participate to such a coalition or even their Think Tanks.  

But if everyone wants to pull the cover on themselves we won't get anywhere. 

We may not get any further but at least we would stop displaying the individual Megalomaniac behavior each time we want to do something constructive.

For ultimately it's about knowing one's place:

I know my place Sketch: John Cleese, Ronnie barker & Ronnie Corbett.

;0)

Recommended Blogs on Premierships: 

37 DAYS: Documentary on Shapour Bakhtiar's Premiership (MANOTO TV)

PREMIERSHIP: Belgium's King appoints socialist & openly gay PM

PREMIERSHIP: Moroccan king appoints ‘moderate’ Islamist party chief as PM 

PREMIERSHIP: Historian Simon Schama's Tour of 10 Downing Street

Hopefully RP doesn't leave any IRI Goon leaders out

He has documentation and detailed evidence on Khatami, Mousavi, Rafsanjani, Khamenei, Ahmadinejad.

He must be clear again and again he does not support Western military attack on Iran, saying it 10 times is not enough. He needs to start insisting a coalitition of opposition groups need to be given a chance remove the regime, to avoid a historical injustice by the the west towards Iran from taking place. 

At some point Iranians may be given a chance with this approach, provided Obama gets re-elected.  If the Republicans win, they openly say they want to attack Iran and I worry that they will use all the criminal courts findings as a pretext to do military harm to all Iranians, not just IRI.  Since we all should know that Iranians are capable & able to handle the IRI regime if given the chance, we should support RP in garnering support for us to unite against the regime and bring it to an end.

As crown prince

RP should have the standing to:

• Request the ICC to investigate IRI crimes against humanity.
• Form a "government in exile" for Iran.

ICC's Prosecutor Moreno-Ocampo’s On Crown Prince Reza Comments

Luis Moreno-Ocampo’s On Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi’s Comments

International Criminal Court Prosecutor's comment on Reza Pahlavi's complaint to UNSC against Khamenei for crimes against humanity - Luis Moreno's Press Conference on 15 December 2011

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaXBZq0IetU

FYI/French TV on Pahlavi's Call To Prosecute IRI leaders

French TV on Pahlavi's Call To Prosecute IRI leaders for crimes against humanity

VPK Jan Couldn't have said it better ...

Indeed ...

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

;0) 

Your Welcome Divaneh Jan

We may be in favor of two diametrically different systems of government but I appreciate your intellectual honesty and open mindedness.

Wish more Iranian Jomhurykhahs were like you.

So here is in tribute to you and your likeminds:

Orson's Hour: Orson WELLES - "Battle Hymn of the Republic" 

Even if I will nevertheless continue to challenge you folks intellectually ;0)

ROYAL FORUM: Explaining the Concept of a Constitutional Monarchy to a Staunch Republican  

Best,

DK 

Recommended Blog:

ORSON's HOUR: Orson WELLES on "Power and Corruption"

My point DK

Thanks for proving my point that is makes no difference. Pahlavi opponents are never going to be happy with RP. No matter what he does. Otherwise they would already know this and be moving on.

But as I said the goal is to absolve themselves from responsibility. I sympathize to some degree with them bot not too much. So I say move on and write off anyone who wants to live per 1979. Thanks you once again DK and good job.

Thanks DK

For setting the records straight. So, he has condemned the HR abuses in his father's time.