VIEW

Hook Line and Sinker

It seems most posters here have accepted the "facts" presented by Mr. Ginsberg.

It is extremely unlikely that Iran would send over billions of dollars........why?

Because the regime here is very broke. Thousands of projects sit idle. Thousands of government run companies have not paid wages for months.

Then again if Assad falls the regime here will be greatly weakened. And not just geopolitically but it will provide great encouragement for Iranians to also rise up and once again attempt to bring about democracy and the rule of law.

Who needs the CIA, Mossad,

Who needs the CIA, Mossad, or MI6, when you can just ask the all knowing gods on Iranian.com?

"Iran has reportedly provided an emergency financial lifeline to the
regime in the amount of $5.6 billion as billions pour out of Syrian
banks by nervous depositors seeking safe haven in Beirut or
Istanbul-based banks."

 Who reported this? Where is the credible source? Six billion is a lot of money people, you don't just throw it in a plane and ship it over.. 

Divaneh jan:

 There are a number of IRI cronies who constantly shower us with comments and articles about the Palestinian human rights. I have not seen them defending the Syrians human rights. It was just to see if they had any shame, but I know the answer to that question already.

 Amen...

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

Amir Agha: Being allied with US is a great thing ...

And to be desired, such as England, Japan, Germany are, but being subservient to US not as so great. I believe by accepting US/West moral & political support but doing the leg work ourselves we will have far greater chance to become an ally. Having US do the fighting for us and kick IRI out of Iran (their money & their blood) will be the surest way to have them also choose the next regime for Iranians and that regime will undoubtedly be to serve the interest of US first (i.e. a subservient regime as there are many of them in the ME)

Divaneh jaan: great post and comment as always.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

VPK jaan,

Dear Divaneh

I agree with your posts as I mostly do. Thank you for clarifying your position. In general I find you to be one of the most intelligent posters on IC. 

As for "Pan Iranist": I mean I want Iran to have influence in the region. I want to recover lost territories. Not by IRI but by a real Iranian government. I want to see Iranian people reunited. From Ctesiphon to Tajikistan. We are like a body that was chopped into parts. We need sow the parts back together. Form a union or at least a federation. That will give us more power to bargain; a common market and benefits of sharing our natural and human resources. 

Hope that clarifies what I mean by Pan Iranist. 

Dear Amir

I agree that being aligned with USA is generally beneficial to a nation. But I mistrust the NeoCon groups. They are relatively new to US policies. They are enemies of Iran. Just read the posts by Simorgh where he was arguing for separation of Khuzistan. Then he stopped probably realizing he was going too far.

Having said that I would gladly ally with USA if they were to give us a good deal. My point is that we should bargain for the best terms.

Dear VPK

I think you have interpreted my comment wrongly. It was not directed at those who care for Iran or the wellbeing of the ME people. I made two clear points.

1. The real enemy of the ME people are their kings (Whatever titles they want to assume) who seem to be far more brutal than Israelis when their interests are threatened. I condemn both.

2. There are a number of IRI cronies who constantly shower us with comments and articles about the Palestinian human rights. I have not seen them defending the Syrians human rights. It was just to see if they had any shame, but I know the answer to that question already.

I don't know what can a Pan Iranist mean but I am against any negative influence by any Iranian government in its neighbours. That will be a failed policy in the long term. The way forward is to have cooperation and positive cultural and economical exchanges and ties (without assuming that we are better or superior in any way). For that to happen we first need to have a secular and positive government in Iran.

Dear VPK

Yes, everyone individual and every state in this world looks after its own interests, and the U.S. is no different. I agree with you on that. But let us look at the countries in the past few decades that were most closely in the "U.S. camp" and see how those states turned out compared to other states: compare West Germany to East Germany. Compare South Korea to North Korea. Compare Taiwan to Communist China (where tens of millions died under Mao Tse-Tung). Even in the Mideast-North Africa region, which is full of rotten dictatorships, those states in the "U.S. camp" (e.g. Iran under the Shah, Turkey, Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Qatar, etc) are far less bloody and brutal than those states not in the "U.S. camp" (e.g. the IRI, Baathist Syria and Iraq, Qaddafi's Libya, Sudan). People say, "What about Saudi Arabia?" As bad as the Saudis are, the viable alternatives within Saudi society, a very "backward" and reactionary society even by Mideast standards, are Jihadist religious fanatics that are even worse than the lousy current Saudi rulers. Name me one country in the world today not in the "U.S. camp" which is a democracy with civil rights and a decent standard of living for most of its people. One should always be sceptical of other states' motives, but one should also acknowledge these realities too. Regards.

Dear Divaneh

Many people criticize Asad. I do not see too many people here worrying about Palestinians. I do not. Therefore I am not sure what you getting at. Who is supporting Asad expect for IRI? 

I do support Iranian influence in the region because I am a pan Iranist. However I oppose IRI. They are not the same thing. IRI is an enemy of Iranian people and I agree. However I do not see any problem with Iran; not IRI calling the shots.

Does Asad kill more than Israel?

Can anyone tell me how the number of Syrians killed by Asad compares to the number of Palestinians killed by Israel? I can't see many of those who criticize Israel for killing Palestinians to show much objections to Bashar slaying the Syrians.

And I am saying سلامِ گرگ بی‌‌ طمعه نیست

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Amir Jan

I normally agree with you but let us be fair. Nations have their own interests. The USA; China or Russia are not philanthropists. They are not good or bad guys. They are just after what their own interests are. That is all.

Both Russia and China suffered a great deal at the hand of the West. Britain practically had the whole Chinese population addicted to opium. Russia was promised NATO would not expand. Then when they let go of East Europe NATO went right ahead and expanded. In other words the West lied to Russian. Then conspired to "democratically" elect a drunk idiot for their president. Do you wonder why they totally mistrust USA? I would if I were them. China is very consistent in its policies. It does not like outside interference in any national situation. The reasons are because they have a lot to fear. They have separatists; and minorities whom they repress. The last thing they want it to set a precedent for UN justice. 

Russia has similar issues with their own population. They voluntarily gave up an empire. What did they get in return: humiliation and ridicule. No wonder they do not support the West. 

Iranians should recognize there are no good guys here. We are our only hope and better listen to Mehrdad. It is only working together that we will prevail. I am not saying do not take help from outside. Just know what you are getting and be ready to outsmart them. 

No other nation is out to help us. Neither USA and specially not the EU with their MEK love affair. Take help but know the price and negotiate the best terms possible.

 Syrian regime TV is an

 Syrian regime TV is an insult to anyone's intelligence.  You watch the news and think that Syrian regime is fighting Israel, and not its own civilian population.  They list casualties among the "regime/order preserving forces", but not the civilians unless they talk about "the criminal gang" (arazel obash)  that roams the country and shoots at people and Syrian regime forces alike.  

 They claim that there is a conspiracy by roving armed terrorist groups all over Syria.  

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

Bavafa,

What I'm saying is that opposing outside assistance or a "hands off" approach to the IRI on the basis of "anti-imperialism" (which, in reality, often means anti-Americanism) is a gift to the regime and leaves its opponents with little to no chance of success in getting rid of it.

Amir Agha: Are we agreeing or disagreeing?

It is really hard to draw a conclusion from your comment to see if we are in agreement or disagreement, not that it matters much.

The resistance has vastly been by Syrians and the help, albeit tangible it should be welcomed if it is for the Syrian people. Sadly, Iranians got far less of moral or otherwise support during the 2009.

One wonders why? Could it be that it was a grass root effort? I don't know but I wonder...

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

what a great thread

This is such an important issue. How corrupt is IRI that it is leading the killing of protesters in Syria. Not that I am pro any type of military action against Iran; I am not opposed blindly either.  However, to those who naively oppose any military action against Iran, I would say, can you blame other countries if they attack Iran when Iran is interferring to this degree in affairs of another country?

Response To Bavafa

They surely have not got any tangible help from outside and that may well serve them better in the long run.

This is a a matter of dispute. Of course, most of the work is being done by Syrians inside Syria, but there have been a number of opposition meetings outside Syria (especially in Turkey) laying out political platforms; there have been sanctions imposed by the EU and US (with filthy Russia and China so far opposing UN sanctions, though that might change); Turkey has allowed many thousands of Syrian refugees to cross into the country and has expressed its support for the protests; the U.S. and French embassies have declared their support for the protests, and the U.S. ambassador has traveled to the city of Hama to show his support. Moreover, there have been claims that weapons and other assistance has also come from Lebanese Sunnis, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia (true or not, this has been alleged). There is no major modern revolution or regime change that has been accomplished without some outside assistance. Of course, the Syrians revolted in 1982, and Assad's father crushed that uprising by using tanks and artillery to inflict tens of thousands of casualties -- but the good news is that there was no outside assistance from "imperialists" (translation: The Great Satan), and so that rebellion remained "pure" and free of "imperialism".

If the current wave is truly

that of people, then more power to them.

Actaully, if true, that would say something about Iran and why our ancestral land is in the shape she is today. 

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________

Two may play

at this game. The "West" or whoever is behind Islamic Brotherhood may have plans. But they do not have to be our plans. Iranian or Syrian people may have their own plans. Fight the oppression.

But do not give into whatever the "outside" wants. Iranians overthrew the Shah; fine. But they did not have to listen to BBC pushing Khomeini. They may have opted for Bakhtiyar. We must stop being stupid and leave our fate in hands of other people.

VPK jaan, I agree completely. As they say...

سلامِ گرگ بی‌‌ طمعه نیست

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

COP jan: I am trying to understand your point...

As you may well be speaking above the 12th grade for my level, but on a quick review… I would say Syrians so far have been banking on the bravery of their own people.

They surely have not got any tangible help from outside and that may well serve them better in the long run. Its been many months now that they have raised against their regime and arguably the Syrian regime has been far more brutal then IRI in dealing with the dissident, yet not only they did not go back to hiding, the opposition has just grown city by the city and ever more stronger.

As for the Islamist Brotherhood in Egypt, that is why I wished them victory with a caution that they should safeguard their new freedom. It is however noteworthy that it is not just the Islamist that may steal the victory.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Yes, good point, but

who is supporting and cheerleading the Syrians that the Iranians did not have in 2009? Iranians put their fate in the hands of a couple of akhoond and akhoond-zade (mousavi and karoubi) and at the end the two figured that by supporting the people, they would end their own religious reign as well. So they crawfished.

Yes, the Iranians can learn from the Syrians, they should learn who's behind this wave in the Arab world?

For Egypt, it appears that the moslem brotherhood "has gained" momentum....Surprize...surprize..

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________

Good points Mehrdad

My point is also that we should not assume those opposing IRI are "good". By that I mean the NeoCon and West. There are a lot of bad players in this game. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend.

The only good types are the people. Both Iranian and Syrian people. The problems is that they are easily misled and many forced are working on it. People must beware of this or we have IRI all over again.

One thing to keep in mind....

As IRI is teaching Syrian security forces, Iranians can learn from Syrian people.

Their steadfastness and bravery in opposing this dictatorial regime is truly admirable. The hope is for a quick victory with fewer casualty and the bigger hope is that they can safeguard their victory so it will not be hijacked by Islamist or the imperialist.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Pendar

To answer your question, maybe it's because are an anti-Israeli IR supporter who dislikes any talk of the horrendous acts of the Islamic Republic.

And the writer is not criticising your "homeland", but the tyrannical regime that rules over it. While on the subject of your "homeland", if you care about it so much how come you don't live there and instead chosen to live in the nasty 'ol US of A, which you despise so much?

It must feel sad and lonely for these birds of a feather

Dont blame these two criminals for backing each other. They know darn well that even Moscow and Bejing would not be a safe heaven for them when angry people start knocking on the gates of their palaces  

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

The whole thing

is a joke. IRI is executing people with kangaroo trials. USA is executing people by war. Israel is executing people by starvation and disease. Taliban just do it the good old way. Saudi murder Bahraini. West does it by putting on sanctions. There are no good guys here. The idealists should pull their heads out of their ***. All the forces there are selfish and out for themselves. I say the best we had was Reza Shah! At least he was a "mihan parast". Which is better than all the above.

Both Hilarious and Hass-terical

IRI is the Number One executioner in the region (Number Two worldwide after China, which has almost 20 times IRI's population). The IRI has killed exponentially more of its own citizens since coming to power than the repressive Saudi regime has killed during the same period. Finally, there is no comparison between Bahrain, where about 32 people were killed over several months of protests and Syria, where several times that number have been killed on many days. Talk about crocodile tears! Is there anything more hilarious, hypocritical, and hass-terical than a Groupie of an anti-Western terrorist regime residing in the West, using Western political freedoms and Western technologies to vomit up cyber-drivel on behalf of said anti-Western regime? Cheers  :-)

LOL!!!! You're a funny guy

All this crying about Iran's support for "savage repression" is SOOOOO funny in light of the US's support for the most repressive dictatorships in the region, including Saudi Arabia, and Saudi repression of Bahrain's democracy movement.