STOCKHOLM

"...if they want to fill the leadership post."

Why would any self respecting Iranian inside Iran, for even one minute even think about giving a leadership position to Iraninas abroad?

Is there really a lack of leaders in Iran? Don't students', women, workers',...movement have their own organic, battle-tested, home-grown leadership? YES.

Let us recall the leadership inside Iran is the one that's being jailed on a daily basis.

This conference with its asinine start is yet another reminder why the opposition abroad is so disfunctional.

If for whatever reason the people who "organized" this gathering were not able to go public about the content and the participants of the meeting, they should not have gone public with anything at all, untill they had sort out their basic steps. Once they had reached an agreement about the basics, then they could go public and put an open call.

Unless they really think Iranians would put up with a secretive, non-transparant, non-accountable "leadership" body. In which case, you might ask: what were they smoking?

Formed by Western Intelligent Services?

Mohammad Amini in his interview with Hussein Mohri stated that he had some evidence that this conference was the work of Western Intelligent Services who are trying to form their own version of the opposition leadership, just the same as what they did in Libya and now Syria. I am not sure how credible his view and evidences are but given the secrecy of the conference, it is difficult to argue against him. I still wish to give them the credit of the doubt but they must talk to Iranians if they want to fill the leadership post.

Do we need Unity to save Iran and overthrow IRI??

 How about a conference without any political agenda. First and foremost we need to gather as Iranians (not our ideology, hezb, etc) for Unity to save Iran". In this conference we could discuss only why we need Unity among all oppositions and how to implement it rather than issuing mandates for future of Iran. We could also discuss the merits of non-unity. 

A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny.--Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.

Mr. Bagherzadeh:

You write about Iranians' political culture and seem to imply what is happening among Iranian opposition forces is something specific to our culture.

Just look at the political scene in the US which is already an established democracy and you'll see all kinds of similar or even worse slanderous allegations aimed at "character assassination."

As examples: The so-called "Birthers," who claim President Obama was not born in the US and those who say he is a Muslim.

Iranian opposition is not functioning in a vacuum. Aside from the partisan and personal interests and concerns, which you have touched upon, we must also understand machinations by the regime which is spending millions of dollars towards its propaganda efforts to influence the opposition forces.

Let's not forget the roles other states or interest groups play in affecting the policies of the Iranian opposition in diaspora.

Farmarz Jaan!

The most sobering analysis, so far! Why else would those guys in Stockholm want to close the doors AND the windows, anyway?

Here's my quote of the day: Sweden is not Hawaii!

Not a Good Idea

Anybody who arranges a conference in Sweden in the middle of winter does not obviously have a good grasp on things.

Having said that, I can see why the meeting was held behind the closed doors and windows. I mean, you wanted these folks to leave the doors and windows open in the middle of winter in Sweden?

Too early to condemn or condone this gathering!

It's too early to condemn or condone this gathering. Not much can be decided in a single meeting of this kind. And there's very little information about it. I'd rather wait and see!

"Deterioration" of the Green Movement!

"Deterioration/disintegration" of the Green Movement, as Mr. Bagherzadeh puts it, came about due to two major reasons:

1. Lack of a coherent leadership.

2. One group, the so-called "Reformists," tried to "hijack" and monopolize the entire uprisings.

Practising Dictatorship? Definitely Yes!

Clandestine meetings need to remain clandestine until its members have something useful to declare to the other oppositional groups and individuals. They also need to explain if their motivation for organizing a covert meeting has been their rejection of criticism by others as a destructive obstacle, as Souri is suggesting. Because in my opinion, considering criticism an obstacle to positive actions (and belittling it as “meaningless” or “petty”) is the core of elitism and despotism. If Iranians (called "This Mellat") are so bad, so are those 50 individuals.

Don't forget that so many Ghor Ghoroos (with “petty” criticisms towards the intolerant mullahs) are doing time in the IRI's prisons!

Azadeh

Dear Mash Gasem

You say

“ultimate fate of Iran will be decided in the streets and factories and campuses of Iran”

And I could not agree with you more.

But those people still need a united leadership with a clear mandate.

Many of our opposition groups are still at war with each other. Before confronting IRI they need to overcome their own demons and learn to respect the other group with a different point of view. Most importantly they need to learn to obey by the people will which comes in the form their vote. They should learn to respect and respect the will of Iranian people even and especially when it does not reflect their own point of view.

To be honest we have never had experience of any democracy in our entire history and all these group are little dictators on their own right.

First they need to learn to respect each other, learn to find their common goals and learn to live with their differences and accept that no one is perfect as all opposition groups and leaders have some sort of history behind them.

This would not be an easy task. As I mentioned each and every one of these people have a history behind them which is less than perfect.

They first need to learn to come to terms with their own each others past conduct.  They can do all their fights and haggling in their own privacy in order to avoid the humiliation of being accused of different things.

What is important to me will be the outcome and the mandate that they will come up with which in the end could unite them as equal partners (just like a few points mentioned by yourself).

Then I would like to think of myself a mature enough to be able to have a look at their mandate and accept it or to give my reasons for rejecting it.

Of course eventually all these meetings need to become transparent and free for all to attend. But in the mean time when they are putting the foundation of trusting each other again and learning to respect each other I am willing to give them the room and space to do so.

ab, we've been organizing conferences for three decades now

and the first lesson in any successful organizing is TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY. If a gathering lacks both these two essential elements, it really doesn't leave much to desire.

Besides the fact that the ultimate fate of Iran will be decided in the streets and factories and campuses of Iran, not in conferences organized in Europe, US or Canada.

EA; why do we have to agree on one flag? Why can't we each bring our own colors and flags? What do they call that Unity in Diversity?

All we need to have is a political agreement on:

- freedom of speech

-overthrowing of IR

- a ban on capital punishment  and executions

In my humble opinion a simple three points agreement could go a much longer way than an endless discussion on what kind of flag people want to carry.

بهترین کارو کردند

من نمیدونم اینها کی‌ هستند و سر چی‌ میخوان بحث و مذاکره کنند.

اما از نظر علنی نبودن این نشست، به نظرم این بهترین تصمیمی بود که گرفتند.

چونکعح اگر این جلسه و اعضای اون علنی میشد، قبل از اینکه نشستی انجام بشه، منحل و متلاشی میشد.

چرا؟ برای اینکه این ملت همیشه در صحنه مجازی، فورا قلم به دست
می‌گرفتند و از این و اون ایراد‌های بنی اسراییلی می‌گرفتند و شروع به
انتقاد میکردن که مثلا چرا آقای یزدی باید بره با آقای پهلوی الان صحبت
کنه؟ چرا فلانی کراوت نزده بود؟ چرا این آقا ۱۵ سال پیش در فلان روزنامه
فلان حرفو زده بود؟ چطور و چنان......و خلاصه آنچنان آشی برای این ملت
استکهلم نشین میپختند که یک وجب روغن روش می‌نشست!

اوون بیچاره‌ها هم آش نخورده و دهان سوخته، از هر جور نشست و پیمانی
منصرف می‌شدند و هنوز سرو نشده، ختم جلسه با دعوا و بحث ، اعلام میشد.

بجای اینهمه انتقاد از این و اون، بریم بشینیم فکر کنیم که ایراد کار خودمون کجاست؟ بهتر نیست؟

جنبش خارج از کشور اول باید سر پرچم به تفاوق برسه، باقیش پیش کش!

نمی‌دانستیم اسم جنبش خارج از کشور به "نشست استوکهلم" تبدیل شده!  به حق چیزهای ندیده و نشنفته!

Everything is sacred

Mellat- e Ghor Ghoroo

This is really typical of our attitude towards those who are trying to do their share.

Well! Listen mate, no one in here is claiming to have a simple solution to the current mess that this country is in.

At least these guys are trying , which is more that what I can say firstly for myself and then for you, you and yes madam you as well.

No one forced or appointed these people to attend this conference and try to find a solution out of the current mess. They are simply attending to their duty and to attend one’s duty one should not need anybody’s permission approval or blessing. Any person with half a brain, integrity or fairness agrees to this.

Alternatively they could all have sat in their offices and comfortable accommodations surrounded and admired by their dedicated followers while believing they are the one who knows the best and the rest of opposition groups and their followers are all either stupid or even worse traitors. And as a result we would remain in the same s**t that is called IRI for another 33 years.

However at the moment they are trying and that is the first step. At the first step they need to overcome their own prejudice and narrow state of mind. They need to build relationship and trust they need to come up with a common mandate and language to communicate. They need to draw some rules and when ready they can introduce their solution to the rest of us.

Then accepting or rejection it is up to you and I.

And if you wonder why they have to have their first meeting in privacy, just have another look at this site and see how people with different view accuse, blindly dismiss and insult each other.

Have you yet seen a republican on this site who could bring him/ her self to accept that we could also have democracy under a constitutional monarchy and what’s important here is the principals that a system is run with and the integrity of the people who run it and not the name. On the other hand have you yet seen a monarchist who can accept that one could love Iran love its history and its heritage. One could admire Cyrus the Great and do any thing to keep his memory alive, but still be a republican and want another system of government other than monarchy.

So guys just grow up and have a long hard look into the mirror, and then ask yourselves:  how much respect do you have for the freedom fighter from the other organization who might not be in total agreement with you and how many times you accused people of being a traitor or a paid agent of one sort or another or an incompetent moron just because you did not like their point of view or because they did not totally agree with you.

Then you will find your answer to why this conference needed to start in secret

هر دم از این باغ بری می‌رسد

یارو را تو داه راه نمیدادن سراغ کد خدا را می‌گرفت. چه گروه ناز و خوشگلی‌ دور هم جمع شدن و میخواهند برای مملکت تصمیم بگیرند.همه این خوشگلا خودشون زیر علامت سوال هستند.ببینید تو اون جلسه خیلی‌ خیلی‌ سرّ مخفی‌ چه‌ها که نگفتن.

س

سوال فرمودید "نشست استکهلم را چگونه می‌توان ارزیابی کرد؟" عرض کنم این نشست از نظر آن دسته ایرانیانی که در جستجوی ایران آزاد هستند پشیزی ارزش ندارد و نتیجه آن چنین خواهد بود

• بزرگ شدن غده بواسیر بخاطر نشست بیش از حد
• اضافه شدن وزن بخاطر مفت خوری و افراط
• بزرگ شدن عقده خود بزرگ بینی،  مثل اون دوست ما نوری زاده که ایرانیان را " فرزندان من" خطاب میکنه، پس گردنی نخورده تا بفهمه علی آباد کجاست
• و غیره

any political group

deciding for future of iran better have good number of women or it will not be taken seriously by women.

Ye maan rooghan

Feb 4th & 5th Are among the coldest day of season in stockholm as usual...

May be it was a pre planned "AASH-PAZI" for members only!

Maziar

کنفرانس گوادلوپ شماره ۲؟

محل نهایی تصمیم گرفتن برای سرنوشت مردم ایران نه پشت درهای بسته، بلکه در خیابانها، مدارس، کارخانه‌ها و دانشگاه‌های ایران هست.

Practising Dictatorship :-))

Thanks Mash Ghasem for publishing Saeed Saremi's assessment of this little practice of dictatorship by 50 Iranian autocrats who are obviously afraid of democracy. I bet they are all in their 70's and 80's!!

Don't trust anyone over 30 :-),

Azadeh

آلترناتيو سازي؟

آلترناتيو سازي؟
سعيد صارمی

با خبر شديم که قرار است در تاريخ ۴ فوريه ، و ۵ فوريه ۲۰۱۲ ، کنفرانسی در شهر استکهلم و تحت عنوان " اتحاد برای دموکراسی" بر پا شود. اين کنفرانس توسط "بنياد الاف پالمه" که نهادی غير دولتی است برگزار مي‌‌شود. از نکات قابل توجه يکي‌ اين است که ورود برای همگان آزاد نيست. ( مخصوصا برای ايرانيان)!
دوم اينکه اسامی شرکت کنندگان تا به امروز که ۲ فوريه است از انظار مخفي‌ است.( مخصوصا برای ايرانيان)!
موضوع کنفرانس هم مخفي‌ است،( باز هم مخصوصا برای ايرانيان)!
محل کنفرانس هم مخفي‌ است، ( و باز هم مخصوصا برای ايرانيان)!
از همين الان نتيجه مي‌‌گيريم که :
۱- اين کنفرانس را از ما بهتران برگزار مي‌‌کنند!
۲- از ما بهتران در آن شرکت مي‌‌کنند!
۳- برای اينکه کسي‌ پرسشی از حضار محترم نکند، هيچ ايراني‌ حق شرکت و دخالت در آن را ندارد!
۴- کنفرانس را نبايد جدی گرفت، اين جماعتی که جرات روبرو شدن با مردم را ندارند، همان بهتر که در خلوت خويش تو سر و کلّه همديگر بزنند!

۲ فوريه ۲۰۱۲ استکهلم

یک اقدام مثبت

قرار گرفتن فعالان سیاسی ایران در کنار یکدیگر بدون شک اقدامی مفید است. من نیز با جهانشاه موافقم که این گونه مخفی کاری می تواند باعث شکست چنین حرکتی شود و بدون آگاهی از مفاد این نشست هیچ دلیلی برای حمایت از آن وجود ندارد. فکر می کنم که اکثریت جامعه ما به آن حد از بلوغ سیاسی رسیده است که چنین اتحادی و شرکت کنندگان در آن از هر دسته و گروهی را ارج بنهد و این پوشیدگی بی مورد است.

از چه میترسم؟

گردهم ایی افراد وابسته به جناح های مختلف مخالف حکومت جمهوری اسلامی به تنهایی امری مثبت است. ولی خودمان را که میشناسیم... مخفی کاری جز دامن زدن به شایعات نتیجه دیگری ندارد و به شک و بدبینی میانجامد. شرکت کنندگان افرادی هستند که در خارج از کشور فعالند و بدون نگرانی از جمهوری اسلامی هر روز اعلام موضع میکنند. پس علنی کردن آنها در این گردهم ایی چه اشکالی دارد؟ مطلع کردن مردمی که سرنوشتشان را تعیین میکنند چه ضرری دارد؟