ASHOORA

"this chicken is the Simorgh" NOT

Unless I understood it wrong, I must disagree!

What is this notion that we must elevate chickens to simorghs? If it walks and talks like chicken it is probably?  a ?: Chicken....and not simorgh

We should accept Black and white just like other colors, instead of colorizing them. Surrealism is just wonderful but it should not be misused as a drug to escape reality.

PLEASE allow our simorgh to freely soar and lets not entrap her among the chickens.   

Re: Rosie

I read few of your postings. I get a better picture of what you say. Thank you for helping me to understand your point.
As yu say philosophy of Ashura is no different than any other tragedy. The critical point is are we the victim or the criminal. Than is the question and it deals with system of VALUE one possess.
As Imam Hossein said:
For sure, The life is A BELIEF and STRIVING for it.

It is because of the tracking system when you're registered....

it updates you when there's a reply on a thread where you've posted.  And I thought this was an important thread so I kept up with it, that's all. It started very contemptuous of the worshipers and I wanted to do something about that. It doesn't take that much time to follow up when you're registered. It's a different ballgame. It becomes intensive, rahter than extensive. But you're right, I do have a lot of free time. And also I'm a writer, don't forget. Some people spend hours gardening. I never do.

Rosie --- honestly the amount of time u spend here amazes me!!!

I cant really believe that every other message here is YOURS!!

Girl you must be singel!!

I am not an ...

God has no religion and neither do I .

Dear Man who Baffled Liberty...

so....you're not going to tell me WHO you're registered as...or....are you?  Will you at least give me a HINT....

yep, that Liberty squealed like a pig in a poke when Ah done shot'er down........

In other words ..

Beshno in Nay chon she'kaayat mikonad ...
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//www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0134/_P1.HTM

Tears and Memory

The main message of Ashura is that of stolen Inheritance of the Elect of God. It is, for those of you who will have camels brought to you by Angels, a Reminder of the stolen inheritance (your inheritance) as a Child of Adam (SAWS).
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The tears will issue from the prompting of your own Soul: For you will remember your loss (of inheritance) and how you yourself helped the one who stole it from you (when you believed it when it said "disbelieve in your LORD" and you did.)
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Ashura Reminds us that when Just Order is malignantly trifled with, pain and loss inevitably follow.
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It will follow if nothing is done about it.
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And it will also follow if a Heroic Soul stands and those who is he fighting for leave him all by himself (take or leave 70 people) to face 5000 bloodthirsty Yazids.
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Only when everyone stands as Hussein (RA) will the injustices disappear. (His Grandfather (SAWS) demonstrated that with his Community (RA).)
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In other words, the authentic tears are tears of recognition of exactly which side of that conflict we actually swung our swords, and the subsequent desire to seek Redemption from the Most Gracious Ar Rahman.
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And the self-flagellation is due to recognizing how 'Masoom' was the subject of the (self-)betrayal, and just who delivered the bloody blows ...
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(Hope that makes it clear.)

If Religion was to be detested, then how come your Shah went

to pilgrimage every year and made sure the press was all around showing him kissing the shrine of this Imam and that Imam? Shah was to be the symbol of progress for many of these anti-religious zealots, but he made sure the mass consider him as a believer! That defines religion at the human level.

At the spiritual level (like me and Johnny Cash and Willie Neslon) we belive that your religion is a personal issue and private, like your 45 Colt, it does not need to be exhibited in public, it has to be within you and at reach but not exposed.

Religion is at best when it stays in your heart. So both insulting it or advertising it are wrong. Evangelism is to be left to Bush and Cheny and other men of cloak....

=================================

Liberty Wallance squeeled like a pig.

I am registered, but since it's late at night and I am in my pajamas, I did not want people see me in this fashion, so I came as a chicken.

Hi, Lost ID, could you please do me a favor,

and read all my posts up the thread before we get into this thing about the secular enlightenment because if you only base your impressions of my opinon about all this on what I said to DavidET about education, you might get the wrong idea about what I think about Ashura. Let me know when you're done, okay?  Or, if you've already done it, let me know that too.

It is your understanding that is meager in measure

Salaam Mazloom-Ast
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Let us note a few things:
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1 - That which you posted quoting the Imams (RA) of Ahl Bayt do not specify a public spectable.
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2 - Late Ruhollah Khomeini was neither an Ayat from God nor a son of Ali (RA).
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3 - (Sum the above 1 + 2 ..)
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(Pull a nose hair, if you must let loose the hot stream in public, as any successful thespian will inform you. Something like, cover nose and mouth with hand while making gestures of sobbing; grab a bunch of nose hair; pull and wail in "truth"!)

Re: Rosie...how do you define "the Secular Enlightenment"?

Please elaborate;
Message of Ashoora is human dignity and value at it's best......History has yet to find a better secular heroe than Ashoora makers;

A society with high costs of pretension and deceit.

Boroujerdi says:

· A society in which many cultural, political, and social institutions are Western and modern in pedigree and configuration, yet native and traditional in iconography and nomenclature.

· A theocracy where religion is an axiom of political life and yet secular agents, aspirations, ideas, institutions, language, and motifs continue to survive and—more importantly—manifest their significance in the realms of private and public space.

Such a duplicitous and paradoxical way of life is deemed unnatural, to the analytical mind, and at the least inefficient, creating a society with high costs of pretension and deceit. If it is the norm to have to pretend, if any level of religious ostentation will be realized to achieve certain objectives, then surely bribes will be paid, relationships exploited, and formal duties will be forgotten for the sake of personal gain. Political corruption, then, is an important consequence of social and cultural behaviours.

//iranian.com/main/2008/hidden-cash

Christians in Iran love Imam Hossein

It was heart trembling to see how Armenians in Iran were having ashoora ceremony in their church. The church was packed for "sine zani". One old Armenian lady said that God answered my need as I asked "hazrate Abbas".

Remember, These Icons show us. A free human mind does not limit itself to get good ideas from one source.

Long live humanity;

HERE IS SOMETHING FOR BALANCE: Go here:

//iranian.com/main/node/16153

and DO something for another underage offender sentenced to execution in violation of UN agreement by the Ahmadinejads in their WORST incarnation, with their WORST crocodile tears..... mizooni? midooni?

In order to have balance...there must be mutual respect.....

for each others political and religious or non religious ideologies. There needs to be unity........too many real tears and blood have been shed by many for centuries through out the world already for varied reasons.

solh va doosti

Nadia

EXACTLY, DAVID! MUTUAL RESPECT!! But you see,

the problem is there's an imbalance.  Because those of us who are atheists, as I believe Mazzie terms himself, or agnostic )if I may hazard a humble guess about you?) or some self-styled spiritual smorgesbord like me, a type now prevalent in the global village...we tend to have more benefits of the best of the education of the secular Enlightenment than those who are dogmatically, especially FANATICALLY attached to a particular religion.  (I said TEND, of course there are always exceptions...)  So it's behooven unto US to work HARDER and be more PATIENT in establishing the dialogue and reassuring that we're not threatening them in order to get them to respect us....it's just the way it is...we're in the teaching position when dealing with fanatically religious people....and teachers MUST be very patient....and MUST constantly subject themselves to self-scrutiny of their motives and behaviors...and we are fortunate enough to be ABLE to hold ourselves up to such standards, but it's unreasonable to expect fanatically religious people to do the same in a short period of time....little by little, slowly....saying YES, I respect your Islam, NO, I don't respect hangings by hydraulic cranes...little by little, slowly, slowly....the onus is upon US to make that dialogue successful...it simply can't be any other way...it's the reality of the situation....I'm not talking about people in power, I'm talking about ORDINARY people...the onus is upon us....with people in power you usually have to play power games...that's another story....

My dearest Mazzie, thank you so much..

for educating us all.  The ardent "non-ideologically motivated" atheist is the MOST sacred of all believers. 

mutual respect

I respect those who believe in any religion, but I also expect them to respect those who may think differently...

Self righteous can justify anything and then label questions or observations as disrespect! S/he promotes acceptance of false pretenses without questioning.

It is OK to question everything we have learned. We ADULTS often must Unlearn first before we start to learn.

If a teaching can not stand the challenges of time and science , it is not worth keeping.

I respect those who believe in any religion, but I also expect them to respect those who may think differently...

small sample of reasons

Here is a small sample of reasons why these people cry, or pretend to cry:

From eosol kaafi page 428- “and when you cry for Hussein in the name of compassion, Allah will forgive all of your sins from major to minor, large or small, whatever size, or whoever it may be.”

From a few grand mohades: Imam Jafar Sadegh said: “in the day of resurrection no one will be judged except the ones that have cried for my ancestor, the rest of them are useless and worthless.”

On the same page: “in the day of judgment, those who have cried for Hussein, without needing to account for their life actions, will sit under the empyrean till the angels bring horses and loaded camels from heaven, and they mount them and enter into their quarters where their hurries, servants, and slaves awaits them.”

Ahmad Ben Mohammad narrates from Osman Ben Esa, who narrates from Ashagh Ben Emar that a question was asked from Emam Sadegh: I like to cry after praying, but I can not cry unless if I remind myself of the dead in my family, is this the right thing to do? Imam said:” Yes, remember them so you can cry, then immediately remember the mighty Allah so to be blessed and exalted.”

Then asked: “Should I force myself to cry even when I have no tears? He said: Yes, even if it is the size of a fly’s head. Even if you can’t do that much, then act as the ones that are crying, then if from your eyes a drop the size of a fly’s head comes out, then well done.” page 427.

Khomeini in Jamaran, 17, khordad, 1360: “the ones that are against bereavement for Imam Hussein want to destroy Shiia. If it was not for these mourning and bereavement, who would know what would have happen to the great Quran and dear Islam.”

“Whatever we have is from these crying and chest beating, is from these bereavement gatherings. Do not hesitate in this requirement. There has to bereavement. There has to be elegy. There has to be crying. Every day has to be ushora. If it wasn’t for these bereavement our country would not be victorious. Always keep moharam alive. “

Dear Man who Resuscitated Liberty...

Yes we all shoot sheriffs and we all have so many excuses for it...thank you so much....sheriff brown always hated me for what I don't know everytime I would plant a seed he'd say kill it before it grows...so I shot, I shot him down....god bless you, science bless you, if we survive the coming challenges, if we use the new technology to remedy the ills of the old....we will soon find out that they are one and the same....

may I please take a moment to ask you to register? Takes five minutes, costs nothing,  you can be completely anonymous, and so many benefits for yourself and for the burgeoning community here--track your posts, sustain deeper conversations, flag offensive comments, contact members privately, build lasting friendships, easy access to submitting articles, blogs, music....if you do decide to do it, please let me know.  You see, you could do it in six months and since I'm registered, if you told me right here, it would immediately come up on my tracking and I'd check it and see there was a message for me from you...right away....please register...or at least think about it...

Thanks Rosie

Interstingly enough you and I agreed on another subjects too, glad you agreed.

In our loneliness and at the time that life turns against us and very unexpected accidents happen, we all need a hand a source to rely on, a place for us to disclose our misery and get counsel.

Religion is there sometimes, to help us not to be so lonely, in the absence of another human that we can open our heart and tell our sadness, there is religion to rely on. At the worst of time, many of us pray in our silence, because deep inside we feel there is god who can listen to us....

Try not take this only source from other human beings...Remember the last time that you were down and there was no one to talk to....

God bless
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I did not shot Liberty Wallance because I hated him, he asked for it and it was an accident anyway. I also admit that I shot the Sherif, but I swear, I did not shoot the deputy down...

Pilot: Thank you

Very impressive use of the comment box.
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But "don't think" that we like it (even a little bit) when someone tells us what to 'think'. We'll do our own thinking, thank you very much.
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As with the comment regarding the late Shah's Hajj, or present President's Ashura, it should be noted that no rational person would assert the intent and the mindset of another.

Dear Man Who Killed Liberty,

thank you for translating into simple language what I have been struggling to say.

Ladies and Gentlemen, this chicken is the Simorgh.

ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls

Islam is there to stay, so is Judaism and Christianity. No matter how much you insult the relgion, you will not be able to abolish it. For 70 years the Soviets tried it, and they only produced more devoted christians.

Find other weaknesses to criticize. I am not a religious person and do not believe in 'organized religion', however, there are millions that they do believe and you need to respect their personal belief.

Attach Ahmadi Nejad or IRI or anyone, but do not just bluntly attack religion.

Thank you

Jesus, you're not replying to ME, are you?

After all, as you have duly noted, I an the biggest nutjob on iranian.com so don't waste your breath on me.  I'm hopeless..

Now that we've got that settled, if you are replying to REFUTE this nutjob's opinions for the general readership, what does that say about your opinion of them?  Obviously, they know I'm a nutjob and pay me no mind, or, let's face it....anyone who took me seriously, they must be nearly as crazy as I am....don't waste your breath on them...they're nutjobs....

I don't GET it...Jesus....why are you bothering to write this reply to me while you know I'm sitting in a padded cell thinking I'm Napoleon...it seems....kind of...well....nuts.....i...

Kisses,
Ayatollah Rosie Tozie

Explanation of Psychoses

PS Forgive me for not replying to the other points in your post.  I didn't read them.  When you said "nutjob" I began to spontaneously hallucinate. That yourr discourse is a model for leadership for a better future. And I'm still...hallucinating....

The biggest nutjob...

Rosie T. Takes the case on this one. The biggest nutjob on Iranian.com. Well done Rosie T.

There is nothing complex or infinite, or the combination of both about hanging human beings in the streets. Yes we all have our evil, and our good, but there is a way to measure that, there is certainly a relative measurement that can be seen by the eyes of the witnesses. Evil is when you kill people to advance your political agenda, and your policies, when you imprison journalists, and students. That is EVIL. Now you have read one too many sufi poetry, or you have been living in Berkeley a little too long. In any case , your absolute belief in moral relativism is decadent at worst, or makes all your arguments inconsequential at best. Sometimes evil is just that evil. Let's call it by what it is.....

What a difference !

Pay attention to pic # 13 , compare the two soldiers, ( statue of a Parsi soldier , armed and satnding attention and just below him an IRI soldier with manghal-e Esfand ) , you've come a long LONG way, SARBAAZ !! 

Mr X, it's so funny...

your description of Iran's president reminds me so much of my own...except that MINE came from a PRIVILEGED rather than dirt poor background, and MINE doesn't even bother to pretend he can quote anything but a Kellogg's Corn Flake box.  Does that make him better or worse?  I'd say let's flip a coin.... either way it's got to land on tails...we can agree to agree can't we that we're NOT talking Einstein here in either case.... 

Rosie

PS I'm so glad you've registered.  Takes five minutes, so many benefits...I hope others do the same....

what do you expect from people like him?

to all of a sudden pretend like they are some how modern, agnostic, sophisticated , liberal, quoting philosophers, and so on. Baba, this guy is a thug, a low life, a though back from 9th century, who will be doing some minor clerical job some where if the country had some law and order. kershvar kar to khareh. Keshvar saheb nadareh. yek mosht guve bar sar mardoom savarand.

the idiot and his ilks are crying for an Arab guy that died in a war with another Arab guy 1400 years a go over  a pussy!