Anonym

The evolution of...... us

First off, back to the "we" thing. I do not think there are that many Iranian muslims who truly care, i.e., most are muslims by decent and "beleive" just in case. It is important to note the Iranian part becasue I believe that most Iranians are muslim because they have not been given a choice otherwise - or do not take the time to think for themselves...I hope you know what I mean. 'nuff said.

Now, why I "attack" Islam? It is not just me as there are others on this site and elsewhere on the net (Iranian I mean), but I guess you took it personal because I replied on your blog - understandable and I realize I should have excercised restraint - my bad!

Moreover, I truly believe the things I said about Islam (don't get mad) as the underlying cause for misery in my motherland - I also believe that about other religions, but they did not destroy my ancient culture (doing it now again) and did not do all the things I said that made you mad - but it did. That's a fact. So, every time I see someone trying to defend Islam, my Persian blood comes to boil and I feel a need to lash out - I relaize it is futile for I can only make myself more angry (and apparently in this case, you). Like I said, I need to exercise more restraint. Believe me you when I say that this happens in gatherings as well and I have gotten in some arguments about this subject with folks - some I knew, some strangers. Interestingly, I  get into this same argument (about religion) with some of my American friends who are devout Christians about Christianity.

Look I am not naive, I know that Islam has a powerful grip on the Iranian society and populous, but if we care about Iran and its ultimate fate, if we are truly nationalistic, we MUST put our Nation/Vatan before religion - we must.

I believe that your beliefs are sincere and do not doubt your convictions - I simply do not understand the basis as I see things black and white when it comes to faith. I actually think that faith is something like a NEED that one has - much like a thirst or hunger - that must be satisfied, or that one either dies or is reduced to something less. I respect and appreciate that, but rarely show it.

Perhaps someday, that would be me although I seriously doubt it. The way the world has turned, that prospect has a less and less of a chance of happening now more than ever. I feel the universe is much more complex to be satisfied with a simple explanation that "god created it" - but that's me. 

OK, I bet if someone reads this thread they will be amazed at the evolution of thoughts and the comments here. But just think if we could all work out our differences in a constructive manner - the world would be a better place.

Good Luck and best wishes.

Good!

Just to get the word 'we' out of the way. There are other Moslems who read your attacks on their religion and they don't say anything, so that means them too and me. So that is what 'we' stands for.

Now, why couldn't you approach me nicely the first time and say what you believe. It seems that you are an atheist or agnostic? That is fine. I actually know many fellow Iranians and Americans who don't believe in God. You are not the first one I ran into.

The only difference is that those non-believers that I know, never attacked God or Islam. I know they don't particularly like religions but out of respect for their fellow Iranian citizens, they don't say anything. This is most important during these times that we Iranians need to unite, especially we who live outside Iran.

Finally, there was once in my life that I believed nearly as you did. Surprised? 

I used to talk to true believers from many religions and we talked about belief in God. I never understood how they became believers! Let's just say that their strong belief amazed me and I could not explain how they could be like that?

Now I tell you that I know for sure that God exists! No, I didn't go to a Mosque nor did I join a religious organization. I can not tell you how and why I became a believer, because I am not sure at this stage it's quite understandable. You have to experience it yourself or you could never understand and for most people they never allow themselves that chance.

Let me just say that I first found God then I looked into religion as some sort of reference to see if I can find more information. So far I have been reading Qur'an but I will be reading about other religions as the time passes.

I hope that you and the ones like you get the opportunity to experience the miracles that I have experienced. If you have any interest in knowing how I got to where I am, let me know and I'll give you some ideas.

If not interested, then peace be with you and I still wish you well.

Who's is this "we"

You keep saying "we" this, and "we" that - Like there's this front that is against me and you're their spokes person - ...but......it is just you and me.

Now then.

I am in fact a very decent human being, not that I need to prove it to you. You don't like me (or my stance) because I said things about your religion you do not like - not surprizing. However, if your faith is strong,  it should not matter what I or anyone would say about it. You see, that is the problem with religious people.  I should be more careful with that, I suppose. But, enough of that.  I believe what I believe.

Here's a simplified (and brief) version of life:

- Earth is a small planet orbiting an ordinary star 30,000 light years from the center of Milky Way (a relatively massive galaxy) in a local cluster of galaxies

- Closest major galaxy to ours is the Andromeda which is some 2 million light years away

- Closest star system to our system is Alpha-Centauri (a system of 3 stars gravitationally-bound) about 4 light years away

- Based on it's Hydrogenn fuel, the sun will turn into a red giant, extinguish all life (if there's any left by then) and die in about 5 billion years from now (what would happen to all the god-loving souls?)

- Humans are life forms evolved on this planet during the course of its natural history - There's nothing special about humans other than the fact that we can talk and use our fingers - also have bigger brains than other animals of which we only use about 3-9%.

 ....and, and, and

That's a quick look at how immense our universe is so the concept of a single creator (or even multiple creators) is none but silly. However to a lot of folks, the concept of god/religion gives meaning and purpose to all this,  but it is a man-made phenomenon. Most people need to beleive there's a god, and hence the need for religion. I am perfectly OK with the fact that we do not yet know why the universe is here, why we are here and WHY SHOULD THERE BE A PURPOSE TO BE HERE".

Most people I know are not OK with the above thoughts, and I am willing to bet neither are you.

To me, if there was this creator, then everyone would have the same religion, the world would be a paradise and no child would die of cancer, all amputees would grow limbs, etc., etc.

OK - Think about this and be nice with your come back - I promise I won't trash your religion anymore. I have caused you an ulcer by now, I think.

If you want to have a serious discussion ...

... then stop behaving like a child and stop attacking people and their beliefs!

I agree, one can not mix religion and politics.

According to what you said:

"I woke up soon (when I was 15, actually) and realized that in order to be a decent human being, I do not need to belong to an organized religion"

I hope you don't get upset either but you don't seem like a decent human being! But maybe people could be misreading you and if you let us know what your religious belief is, it will put everyone on the right perspective. The enlightement that you received at the age of 15 is very important to all. So please, do let us know.

That may open up more conversation.

My Dear Pal....

98% muslim does not mean the government should be muslim nor a theocracy. US is a Christian nation, but (not yet) ruled by the christian right (although once in a while, they get a prez like the one before this one who catered to them). Religion in politics spells TROUBLE. So, I mean S E C U L A R - NOT Mullah - Not bearded illiterate morons,....OK? 

I don't believe anyone cares what my religion is, but I was born in Iran and a member of the 98% majority you noted. I woke up soon (when I was 15, actually) and realized that in order to be a decent human being, I do not need to belong to an organized religion - The books I read have primarily been written, like your book(s), by human beings (you may disagree with me on the subject of the author of your book, but go easy on me). Does that answer your question........pal?

As for my religion being better than Islam, I never said its better....I said......oh you know what? Forget it, you'll get all pissed off at me again for excercising free speech....even though you have so much tolerance as a good muslim.

Tell me....... what's your background? How did you come to be such scholar in Islamic "studies"? Your interpretation of the Koranic words are just out of this world....and how long have you been opposing the bad muslim that make up the IRI's?

Oh, I almost forgot, if we have a good muslim government, how would that government be better than the bad muslim government we have now?

I am proud of you to have made such progress in treating me a little better - perhaps, in time, I can recover from your wrath...and the scars you've caused me may heal - I dunno.

Do come back, won't ya?

Yeah yeah whatever

Just remember the one who started doing the 'damning and cursing' on a personal level was you, not me.

One clarification my future 'pal', when you say that "Do you think people would still want muslims running their country" you expect the future leader of Iran to be not from the 98% Moslem majority or you mean not be a clerics (mulla) when you say 'muslim'?

Finally now that you know my position and we are becoming 'pals', enlighten myself and fellow iranians with your own religion. Tell us what it is and why your religion is better than Islam?

Hey, at least you did not curse me anymore

You know, I think we're making progress. You seem to have calmed down. Perhaps if you take a deep breathe, you'd feel even better. Try it.

To clarify, when I signed up to "attack good muslims on the internet", the manual did not say anything about what to do or say when the good muslim I was attacking actually attacked me like you did. That's what I meant. Hope its clear now.

You don't believe that you hurt me with your unkind words? But you did....... why would I lie about that...?

Please do come back, this is better than bad mouthing your religion. I figured I am damned by this benevolent god, so I am trying to behave now.

Do you think it's working?

Oh, and one more thing, should I tell them that the good muslims are coming to kick the bad muslims out? Do you think people would still want muslims running their country after all the mess for 30 years?

What - I say what - should I tell them?

Just think, we could be pals soon.......... wink... wink

Don't feel bad ...

I don't think that any Moslem in their right mind ever wants to 'convert' you. You can do Moslems a favour and remain as whatever you are now.

You say " This was not in the “How to Attack a Good Muslim Manual" ". That I guess means, I am attacking a 'good Muslim' like you. Hmmm, let me guess, another lie?????

You say "... could have used the Islamic kindness to lure me, to convert me". Convert you from what? So you are not a Moslem as you made one to believe? Let me guess, yet another lie??????

You say "...  I am hurt beyond repairs, scarred for life".  One more lie!!!!

Say goodbye to your Khamenei goons and tell them Iranians will be dealing with them soon.

This is getting better and better.

You hurt my feelings, you know

If your faith is so strong why do you have to insult me – why…why….? Doesn't Islam teach tolerance and love? (You don't have to answer that, I already know the answer). You hurt my feeling man. I am confused how a peaceful Muslim like you would insult someone like that. I am hurt beyond repairs, scarred for life, how could you? I have to go ask my IRI contact what I have to say to you now. This was not in the “How to Attack a Good Muslim Manual”, so, understandably, I am confused.Can you face yourself in the mirror now, how would you pray, how can you step into the local mosque knowing that you have insulated a fellow person? You could have used the Islamic kindness to lure me, to convert me…alas…you blew it. 

To the lier

It seems that you have a personal vandetta against me, right? I mean everybody can see it. You have been sticking to me like a leech and trying to put your lies through my blogs. People are not stupid!

Everyone can track back my previous comments and blogs to see that I have condemned the actions of Iranian regime over and over again.

Are you blind as well as stupid? That makes you a lier again and again and again.

If there is going to be any killing and rape of innocent people, the liers like you are the one who would be doing it.

You go around and talk about Iranian freedom. You are nothing but a stupid facsist. If anything, you could even be planted here by IRI to attack the good Moslems who oppose the IRI. Everyone on this site knows that by now and that is a good possibility. But then again, you are just too stupid to even be that, but one never knows.

Now if we keep going at this, that might make my blog as one the "Most Discussed" on this site. Go ahead loser, I am ready for the next reply for you. 

If you're faith is so strong and just

Then why do you flag comments, you wuss? 

This blog changed the mind of ....no one!  But you can keep dreaming. Islam is a blood thirsty cult and hated by a lot of folks including many on this website even though only a few would articulate it. 14 ceturies of lies and brain washing has made sure that we Iranainas still fear this cult - justifiably, I must add.

So, STOP posting crap no body cares about.

I have never seen you condemn the actions of the Islamic goons in Iran. So, in essence, you're no better than the guys in the streets with face masks and machetes killing innocent people. All you seem to care about is how glorious your cult is.

There are good people in this world ...

... who have regards for Islam. That's what counts. That's what matters. And if this blog has changed the mind of neutral people to think more positively about Islam, then I wish them a good future and blessings of God.

People of all religions, people who love God. You have withnessed what has transpired in this blog. Those who understand what I am talking about know that this blog has now accomplished it's purpose.

You can flag my posts

so they get deleted. It won't change the facts. So keep dreaming....about your peaceful cult.

One more time, since you didn't get it the last time:

Qur'an 2, 7: (regarding those who are damned by God)

(In this life) God hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).

Qur'an 6, 70: 

Leave alone those who take their religion to be mere play and amusement, and are deceived by the life of this world. But proclaim (to them) this (truth): that every soul delivers itself to ruin by its own acts: it will find for itself no protector or intercessor except God. if it offered every ransom, (or reparation), none will be accepted: such is (the end of) those who deliver themselves to ruin by their own acts: they will have for drink (only) boiling water, and for punishment, one most grievous: for they persisted in rejecting God.

------------------------------------------------------------

Sir, you are not starting a pissing match with me, you are just pissing straight up into the air .

More encouraging words for the wise

(Quran-67: 5-7)- And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire. For those who reject their Lord (and Cherisher) is the Penalty of Hell: and evil is (such), Destination. When they are cast therein, they will hear the (terrible) drawing in of its breath even as it blazes forth.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I don't want to start a pissing match with you - again, but I cannot help challenging the "faithful" -

This god sure uses a lot of punitive measures to keep his children in line. In fact all these gods promise the same.

Tell me, if god, any god, is so great and loving and forgiving, why is he so fierce in his unleashing the fires of hell upon "his" people?

What's the point of "creating" something if you're gonna stick a fierey arrow up their butt unless they obey you, love you, pray to you 5 times a day, etc....etc....?

Why are ll these gods so thirsty for "respect" and acceptance? Whowever wrote all these so called holy books had good intentions, but was bound by his/her limited knowledge of the world at the time...... what better way than scaring the pants off the simple man to have him be good instead of ...bad?

Curse and damnation from the wrong doers ...

... means nothing and scares no one!

It's the damnation from God that one needs to worry about!

Hell awaits those who do not succumb

(Quran-4: 13-14):  Those are limits set by Allah; those who obey Allah and His Messenger will be admitted to Gardens with rivers flowing beneath, to abide therein (for ever) and that will be the supreme achievement.  But those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment. 

Such peaceful thoughts.......hope I got the sureh # correct...

Damn those "losers" who translate the arabic words of allah.......truthfully!

re: Afterlife rewards

1) First of all it's not 37:37, it's 56:16. 

2) Second, the translation and interpretation of "Virgins" is incorrect, it should be "youths never aging (immortals)". Unfortunately some of those who spread these lies are Islamic extremists and some of them are anti-Islamic losers.

Finally some just words for the individuals who attack God and Islam:

2, 7: (In this life) God hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).

6, 70: Leave alone those who take their religion (Islam) to be mere play and amusement, and are deceived by the life of this world. But proclaim (to them) this (truth): that every soul delivers itself to ruin by its own acts: it will find for itself no protector or intercessor except God. if it offered every ransom, (or reparation), none will be accepted: such is (the end of) those who deliver themselves to ruin by their own acts: they will have for drink (only) boiling water, and for punishment, one most grievous: for they persisted in rejecting God.

Afterlife Rewards

The following sureh applies to all the horny folks awaiting a piece of arse in the afterlife:

  “But the true servants of god shall be well provided for, feasting on fruit, and honoured in the gardens of delight.  Reclining face to face upon soft couches, they shall be served with a goblet filled at a gushing fountain, white, and delicious to those who drink it.  It will neither dull their senses nor befuddle them.  They shall sit with bashful, dark-eyed virgins, as chaste as the sheltered eggs of ostriches.” [sura 37:37]