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Green, semi-Green, no-Green and Anti-Green
14-Jun-2010
Khordad (June) should be called Month of the Green because no matter your political thoughts everyone is haggling about a movement in Iran that started last year.
The fact of the matter is that the Green movement started by supporters of Mousavi who campaigned for him in order to de-throne Ahmadi and establish Mousavi’s government. What followed was the political maturity of the Green movement - Mousavi’s supporters - and their desire to continue a non violent movement and the violent response of the regime.
I have no doubt that the elections were rigged because no 62% winner would be so afraid of a recount or have a shortage of visible public backing. When Obama got elected with 62% of the vote was there a shortage of his vocal and visible supporters in public?
Some say that while the Green movement started as just supporters of Mousavi it evolved into something more. It evolved into a movement to overthrow the Islamic Republic. The political mindset of young Iranians who are the founding fathers of the Green movement is different from the political mindset of their previous generation who overthrew the Shah.
When people were campaigning for Mousavi and called themselves the Green Movement, the previous generation (with the old political mindset) was yawning in Iran and abroad. However, when they came to the streets the previous generation suddenly woke up! So why didn’t the previous generation see the Green Campaign prior to the election as worthy? Because they don’t understand what makes the young Iranian move. They don’t understand the mathematics of young Iranians political debates and culture. In short because it is easier to lump everything together and wrap it up!
Mousavi himself didn’t believe the position he was put in 2009 or in 2010. It’s not like he was unknown or his support for Khomeini hidden. People put him in this position and to his credit he accepted the position and is risking his life because that is what people wanted. This is how their political mindset works.
There is no way of knowing for sure the actual number of various political views that constitute the overall Green movement. For example, I don’t know where to put Rudi Bakhtiar who shows up with Green tank top and supports the Green movement and which Green movement she is talking about. I don’t think it matters as long as she supports what people support in Iran and if it means people in Iran support Mousavi so be it. She may not support Mousavi but as long as people can support Mousavi and don’t be killed for it she’ll be happy. I don’t speak for her but that is how I can see various people with various political affiliations come under an umbrella and support the fight for justice and equality in Iran.
I think there is a hesitancy and fear among many Iranians who were never revolutionaries or became revolutionaries to go under any more umbrellas again! One umbrella bought in 1979 may be enough for them but umbrellas break under the wind and you need to buy new ones or spend good money and buy one that is wind resistant!
In the end I think dismissing Mousavi and Karoubi and defining Green movement as something that we’d like it to be or calling it dead does not solve anything, is not a true reflection and will certainly not win any points with the young Iranians who started this movement and are one way or another in the majority. Separation of church and state is an ultimate goal and one of the many goals that Iranians are fighting for as they pick their own methods and leaders.
There is no perfect country and government in the world. There is no system that has solved all the problems and there will never be a government in Iran that solves all of its problems. Many of us have these childhood memories that are so pasteurized. We need idealists who want a better and just life in Iran but everyone knows we’ll never be able to satisfy everyone.
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NO
by Doctor X on Thu Jun 17, 2010 07:11 PM PDTI don't mock. I am not a mocking bird. Eh.
It is fashionable/easier for some outside Iran to be Anti-Green
by Anonymouse on Thu Jun 17, 2010 06:14 AM PDTEverything is sacred
and Anti-Green is right
by Escape on Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:49 PM PDTDoctor why are you mocking the people of Iran who are behind the Green movement? Is that how you would treat the wound on Iran? By Mocking it?
I'd like to add Tajbakhsh's link here
by Anonymouse on Wed Jun 16, 2010 04:20 PM PDTIt's a good part of discussion and the Green Movement and who are their leaders. I also like the picture in that article which captures quite a historic event in and of itself.
//www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2010/06/tajzadeh-reformists-should-ask-the-nation-for-forgiveness.html
Everything is sacred
.....
by yolanda on Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:47 AM PDTLets see if UK still calls up Robert Green as their goalie for the next game....I have a feeling he is scarred for life...his confidence shaken..everyone makes mistakes, but not in front of the whole world.....I hope he can be redeemed!
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrés_Escobar
That's not a mechanical cat! It's a real one!
by Anonymouse on Wed Jun 16, 2010 08:57 AM PDTI remember the Colombian soccer player and it was sad. Baggio on the other hand was heralded as World's Best Soccer Player like when Ronaldo, Maradona or Ziddane were named as such.
Ronaldo and Maradona both delivered (Zidanne almost delivered ;-) not just in winning the world cup but for playing masterful plays throughout the world cup. I remember Ronaldo and Zidanne and they were truly masterful.
Baggio on the hand did NOTHING! In the end he missed the penalty kick to top if off!
Everything is sacred
......
by yolanda on Wed Jun 16, 2010 08:39 AM PDTlol! The mechanical cat!
Theoretically I am on US side, but I feel sorry for the British goalie...I can't never forget the anguish on his face.......the tabloids blame the break-up for his WC blunder...WOW! I think it is far-fetched!
//www.nydailynews.com/sports/worldcup2010/201...
I know soccer fans can be very emotional....I hope when he returns to UK, no eggs on his face...
I recall many years ago.....Italian soccer star, Baggio, missed penalty kick for WC final...he had eggs on his face when he returned to Italy........
A Columbian soccer player, Escobar, made a big blunder at WC by scoring a goal for US......he was shot to death when he returned to Columbia....OMG!
It's going to be another Germany vs Brazil final = Germany win
by Anonymouse on Wed Jun 16, 2010 05:17 AM PDTPS did you watch the cat's shock in the clip I provided?!
Everything is sacred
......
by yolanda on Tue Jun 15, 2010 06:20 PM PDTHi! Mouse,
Of course, I watched it......these are the games I watched so far:
1)Mexico vs. S. Africa....I watched at work....the big boss let everyone watch it.
2) Argentina vs Nigeria game......Maradona is the focus
3) US vs. UK......the goal by Dempsey is unreal....Dempsey scored in 2006 WC for US also...
4) I watched part of the S. Korea vs Greece game last Saturday...and then I looked for a protest to join.....there was none here...
5) Today I had a choice of watching WC, watching a movie or visiting IC at work.....I visited IC........uh, oh..I got into trouble here....I had to flag my post....LOL!....if I was busy at work.....it would not have happened...
I wish Team Melli made it to WC, but they did not.......so I am rooting for Mexico 1st....US team second......
so far too many tied games.....OMG! So many of them...
Yolanda you didn't watch his World Cup's gaffe?!
by Anonymouse on Tue Jun 15, 2010 05:23 PM PDTIt was all over the news and he may be benched for the next game.
Here is a clip from his last week's gaffe with a twist! You can search and find a better clip but you have to subscribe to FIFA I think to see it.
Everything is sacred
......
by yolanda on Tue Jun 15, 2010 04:30 PM PDTOMG! I feel sorry for the dude! Thank God the clip is not from world cup.....He is shouldering the pressue of 50 million people ......
I hope when he returns to UK, fans can forgive him!
Thank you for sharing!
Speaking of Green; here's UK's goalkeeper's OTHER goal gaffe!
by Anonymouse on Tue Jun 15, 2010 03:21 PM PDTYou know about his mistake with US in the world cup. Here is his other mistake, which is worse?!
Everything is sacred
Nekbat IRI Embassy employees !
by Rea on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:40 PM PDTPestering me for writing what I think and believe. Ha ! ;o))
Bravo!
by Anonymouse on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:21 PM PDTEverything is sacred
Neck-bat
by Doctor X on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:13 PM PDTWatch your Blood Pressure. Don't be angry.
Yolanda
by Doctor X on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:10 PM PDTHow would you react when someone tells you Shoo! now Shoo! do you bow before him and ask him to please bestow more honor on you? do you appreciate when someone talks to you like they are talking to you like you are a dog or something?
This is not the time to start chidish tit-for-tat games so please stop this charade.
......
by yolanda on Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:59 AM PDTI don't mess around and play around with people's names..........it is gross & creepy.......I got great teachers all the time!
I flagged my post and it was taken down instantly! I hope you are satisfied!
Neck-bat!
by Anonymouse on Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:47 AM PDTEverything is sacred
Yolanda
by Doctor X on Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:46 AM PDTWhat??
where is your proof? No. even if someone was , it is not as nasty as calling one Nekbat. Your "teacher" messed up big time when he/she was teaching you how to use this word. I am not surprised though.
.....
by yolanda on Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:38 AM PDTI flagged my own post.....hopefully it can get removed ASAP.
so playing around with people's ID's is not nasty?!
"ANN" anymous
by Doctor X on Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:35 AM PDTShoo right back at your face. You are so paranoid and abnoxious, you don't know what to do with yourself.
watch your language.
Doctor I know who you are under another user name. So shoo!
by Anonymouse on Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:10 AM PDTEverything is sacred
Really? Anonymouse
by Doctor X on Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:09 AM PDTYou are not? Then why the hell did you read the whole thing and answered? Was that to prove a point or was it something else?
I see . So anything that goes against your position on this subject is a waste of time and translates as "hot air" that does not make any sense. Ok . Basheh. Why do you have to start an argument and jump on people?relax. I guess one needs permission before speaking on this forum. You expressed your opinion and i am doing the same. What is so strange about that to you?
They are busy? I know they are. I am talking about a more systematic and persistent move. And i am not suggesting following my schedule.
Setting a time table and having a plan is much better than Crowding the streets once or twice a year and gettting INNOCENT PEOPLE CLUBBERED. Obviously you are enjoying this.
Yes. Really, What has really taken place???
You're welcome Rea! It depends on your defintion of "paradox"
by Anonymouse on Tue Jun 15, 2010 09:03 AM PDTIt depends on what your defintion of the word is, is! There is no "Iranian paradox" for Iranians, only for non-Iranians!
Everything is sacred
Doctor your doctorate was obtained from where?!
by Anonymouse on Tue Jun 15, 2010 08:49 AM PDTI'm not going to waste my time with you with comments that make little sense yet are full of hot air.
why don't we see them on the streets every week or at least every mounth? They're busy and can't accomodate your schedule.
short and long run? Like one month for short term and 6 whole months for long run!
we REALLY don't see anything actually taking place on a consistent basis. REALLY?!
Everything is sacred
Ananymous
by Doctor X on Tue Jun 15, 2010 08:05 AM PDTIf you look at it, they do actually tone things down a bit in between the anniversaries, so its what is happenning already!
No insults and no disrespect to the participants and believers who pour they heart and soul out for this movement, but if this is taken very seriously, then why don't we see them on the streets every week or at least every mounth? ??? Don't you agree that persistence pays off in both short and long run?
Despite the insistence that it is not dead and is on the move and it is going on, we REALLY don't see anything actually taking place on a consistent basis. Now you or anyone else can go ahead and slap a juicy anti-iranian or pro-arab on me, But that is indeed what is taking place. I can believe and i do belive that as a philosophy this has been embraced by so many, but it has turned to a rather seasonal phenomenon and everytime it turns into a more ugly hell for those who don't even deserve to be nowhere near it.
Mousy mouse ;o)
by Rea on Tue Jun 15, 2010 06:01 AM PDTIt may seem strange but no. Both you and oktaby are right. My definition of "the Iranian paradox".
PS. nothing is free on the net these days. So, thx for a free language lesson. Loved it. ;o)
What a good idea to have millions of protesters "tone it down"!
by Anonymouse on Tue Jun 15, 2010 04:41 AM PDTEverything is sacred
eeroonman
by Doctor X on Mon Jun 14, 2010 08:11 PM PDTat the expense of being called all kinds of names, i agree with the essence of your message. It is like that last-resort / best available alternative concept that has had people clung to it out of sheer desparation.
As far as the grass-root approach and "organic" ness! of this idea, That won't happen until the majority is convinced of its absolute pragmatic impacts, beyond all doubts.
I really wish that the rhetoric of some passionate supporters had found a way of toning itself down, and get back down to earth.
eroonam I was there and I know and you can't tell me otherwise!
by Anonymouse on Mon Jun 14, 2010 04:18 PM PDTObviously you haven't listened to what Karoubi and Mousavi have said and acknowleding more than just their "supporters". You are probably too bored to look behind the shah's picture that they post behind them.
The green campaign during the election was never at a loss or shortage. The fact that 45 million or so voted says that they had an organized campaign and people wanted change.
I know people are trying hard to define this movement as what they'd like it to be but it doesn't work that way! He asked them to stay at home because coming to the streets would have meant absolute death and that is not fair.
There are other ways to voice your objections and views and what people want which is what they did in their 1.5 hours of press conference.
I am from Iran and not someone from a Scandinavian country with blue eyes and blonde hair! When I say the Green movement in Iran, I know WTF they're talking about and who they're rallying behind.
Everything is sacred