ayatoilet1

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VPK America would be a good ally to have,

But that has not been possible so far, thats why RPII seems to be sitting around in the USA.

I'm just trying to make you aware that what you are suggesting while a good idea, has not been possible and has been tried alot. I agree we will need to work with our situation yes with allies, but more the way China worked with their situation. 

Either way, Israel has been a historic ally and helped us so there won't be an problem with their security once we get rid of mullahs.

VPK read my last post.

USA is the one backing the Seperatist Movements.  You think you can get USA on Irans side, do it.  Otherwise observe reality.  The arrangement the Shah created will be difficult to reconstitute due to what the USA has being doing for the last 20 years in particular keeping mullahs in power with all her power. 

If the USA has any desire to mend their alliances they will do it, not due to your wishes.  As for now the observation is clear. Their thinking is different.

They see their own interests differently than you and I do, so it may not be possiblle.

amirparviz Jan

You do have to choose. It is not about Iranian ability it is about allies. Iran needs friends and the best one is America.The "do it all by ourselves" mentality is what got Mossadegh in trouble. It is also what got Shah in trouble.

You say America wants Iran weak I don't agree. America just wants one thing: money. If we go your way America will not make money hence it will oppose us. If we go my way America makes money hence it will support us. It is all about money and really that simple.

That and to provide safety for Israel. My proposal addresses both. That is why it got a good chance of being  acceptable to Americans. Going the path you suggest will not work. Because too many powers will oppose Iran making sure we fail.

Dear MassoudA

Thank you and of course I agree with you including USA being the 2nd loser. With Iran on their side America would not have to deal with Taliban or Iraq: Iran would have. We should aim to restore the relation.

Iran will keep the region safe; in return we get peace and prosperity. I make a big distinction between UK and America. UK seems to have it in for Iran. Americans just want to make money. That is why it is possible to deal with Americans and not UK.

Britain was able to use Carter as a tool. I guarantee it will try to steer any IRI replacement to be horrible. Most likely they will push for MEK and separatism. As Iranian Americans we must be ready to stop that.

We need allies potential ones being  oil  and AIPAC. Yes to some people both are "dirty" words. But they are  realists and winnable. If we get their support we are sure to get our wish. The price is very reasonable. Oil companies get  first  access to oil and gas.

Israel gets a guaranteed real ally. Iran goes from their number one worry to an active supporter. A trade partner and supplier of cheap energy. In return they use their considerable lobby power in USA  to help Iranian interests. 

Regarding Reza Pahlavi. I am happy to have him as a leader but he must get up and lead! If he wants the job he must take more risks. I have said before: nothing is free. One of these days someone will appear and I doubt it will be RP.

MasoudA the truth is you don't have to choose.

Iran can create its own oil industry and has the capability to produce all the technology and hardware to create a natural gas industry and a copper industry each producing over $1 Trillion Dollars in Profit and an oil/plastics industry worth another Trillion dollars. Minimum $3 Trillion Dollars. The Reality is Shah created all the capabilities and people Iran would ever need to be Independent and to enjoy Freedom. The Irony behind 79, Azadi, esteglal, we already had those!  As far as selling the products, fortunately we don't need either US/UK/Russia/Japan/Germany/France/Canada/Australia/China/India/Brazil/Turkey also, that is partly why the USA is not interested in Regime Change, because the regime is doing their work of keeping iranians weak and backwards for them.  This is why they are backing seperatists in each Iranian region and arming them, because they do not want a free or United Iran, if they can't contain this IRI Regime which they can't, their next serious option is to disintigrate Iran, and that is what we will all need to unite against no matter how disagreeable the views of the people we unite with, so long as they don't support the disintigration of Iran we will need to give them our whole hearted support for the purpose of opposing so called independence movements, even supporting communists or fundamentalists.

Good Conversation APSM & VPK

America is in many ways the victim here too....they were the 2nd biggest loser of the 1978 Revolt. 

As for Revenge - I agree with what VPK is saying we must forgive but won't forget, especially in our future deals.....what is crucial is for UK to STOP all their "colonial" related efforts in Iran - starting with transfering ALL their payrolled akhoonds and non-akhoonds out of Iran to England or one of ther OFFICIAL commonwealth colonies!!  UK must also put an immediate stop to spearheading and desolving the UK chapter of Freemasons in Iran - The whole thing is nothing but a political ponsy scam - a pyramid style tool for power control - a closed society which has consumed many Iranian intellectuals and professionals in Iran and outside. 

Mind you that we have no-one to blame for having been so socialy and economicaly manipulated......but again - if in the future I have to chose between BP and Texaco......I will choose the Americans....

If the West wants the Regime Gone

They know exactly who has the support and can get the job done.  If his supporters make any moves they will be asked to stop as they have been consistently even up until today. If they don't listen, they will get obliterated, so we are where we are.  If the west attacks iran with out giving the opposition a chance to remove the regime, it is only because their agenda is keeping Iranians weak and backwards for as long as they can.  The goal should be to change the policies of the west, by taking on their surrogates at all the universities and foundations in the USA.  That is the only way change can happen for the better.

You are completely wrong

This was the policy of both Parties and has continued since.  In the Early 80's during Reagans time a group of Iranian officers organized training of thousands of Iranians in France and the young shah went to the israeli's they said to him to distance himself from it, the US, France and Britain all opposed it and have supported the regime up until now.  Each and every administration, your info is  based on the picture the media portrays in books, this is a manipulation, they present it as they removed shah over raising oil prices, this is a bigger lie and not the real reason.  Its really not my job to educate you how to think, all I can do is to encourage you to think for yourself and point out when I see it is fundamentally wrong.

Amirparviz

You are right about Carter and the British. However this was a very specific time. Jimmy Caster is not a normal US persident. He was a useful idiot for the British. No other normal US persident would have done what he did.

Once people figure out what he is they voted him out. No one like him will be voted in anytime soon. Not if people realize what he or she is about. Without America British won't do anything.

Define Revenge, stupid acts of extremism are out

But if you realze the goal of the USA and UK is to send Iran backwards and you wish to change this and restore evolution and development and ownership and control of Irans resources as it was during shahs time, this is in a sense total revenge.  The number one goal of the USA and UK is to say that they did not betray Iranians or the late Shah who treated them like a true friend and had a pact with the USA, so if you do anything that helps the Pahlavi's come back for having served Iran, whether you do it directly or indirectly, this is total revenge.  Even implying that Carter by giving hundreds of millions of dollars to khomeini & PLO, while refusing the shah sales of tear gas, plastic bullets or riot equiptment, was an act of betrayal is revengeful. 

masoudA

The key for all of us is NOT to seek revenge on any nation including UK - let us teach the world YET ANOTHER lesson in humanity. 

Right no revenge is a good idea and I am all for it. No harm to anyone but we may as well be realists. I would put American oil companies in front and BP in the back. Is this revenge or just playing the game? 

In fact I put Israel way ahead of British or French. There has to be a response for actions. Israel helped Iran in the war so they get favorable treatment in my book. I want us to repay friends. Not revenge but payback and building alliances.

The Key is....

First of all - to TL: You made a great point about lack of action on our part.....and I am assuming and hoping "us" includes you too.....but at the same time you seem to have no clues on what needs to be done....mostly because you don't know what has actualy transpired inside Iran within the population.   Those who shall free Iran are inside Iran - the best we  can do is to let them know who their friends and enemies are outside Iran - and to generate as much outside support as we can in all shapes and forms.   Let me give you some good news - The new generation of Iraniians are simply magnificent by all standards, despite the IR.  

The key for all of us is NOT to seek revenge on any nation including UK - let us teach the world YET ANOTHER lesson in humanity. 

Dear Tiger

Many Iranian children are badly damaged by their parents guilt feelings. I made a point of NOT doing that to my kids. My children learn about Iran with no guilt or regrets I never break a promise to them. Children are able to read our minds. If we love them unconditionally they will return it in the same way. 

You want to know how is it that I know? I remember it. Don't give them any shit and you won't get any. Very simple almost too simple for the people wanting to find more complex responses. 

The sins of the father and mother does not plague their children: never!. I reject that possible reality out of the infinite possibi8lies.

Dear TL

I am beautiful. So much that a mortal's eyes will be blinded by my sight. That is why I need to be veiled. (sarcasm off). Anyway I am not that ugly really! I am would say on a scale of 1-10 I get a 6. 

Thanks, VPK

.

At least, there is some hope of people who can actually stomach anything but their own crap around here. 

Horrible people.

An acute show of what I've experienced with Iranians myself. Simply horrible people. And very ugly too.

.

.

Regarding TL

I rather it was not flagged. Allow her to have her say. I oppose BBC and its nonsense but if she say her bit let her. Better let people offer ideas than ban them

Well then join

I guess we are not doing a good job publicizing ourselves. Join and help. I am an admin there and you bet you are most welcome AmirParviz jan.

Good Post, first time I've seen it.

That organization needs organizers, goals and events.

amirparviz Jan

The first thing we need to be able to do is organization

We already do:

//iranian.com/main/blog/ramintork/please-...

The first thing we need to be able to do is organization

We need to get volunteers that are experts in this field, we have them, we need to find them and contact them and get them on board to do their magic.  Next we need to use the organization for a purpose, to create unity/solidarity Since Nowrooz has survived in our hearts despite islam and it purpose is to celebrates the shah and renewal we need to be able to create a massive unifying celebration under political guidance to show we have a large organized ready unity opposition, from there we show our preparedness for change and start working on how to make it happen in Iran.  An Iranian Unity Council inviting all civilian opposition groups to participate.  Once you have civilians together, then you move on and gets tough guys as necessary not the other way around.

Mullahs came from somewhere and were financed!!!

Iranians MUST take responsibility - but I must say the people were manipulated (carefully) and the Mullahs came from somewhere.

There comes a point when we have to take our own destiny in our own hands. I agree. But looking back - it was blatant manipulation and the majority of Iranians just lapped it up.

I do blame the west (and britain especially BBC) for the manipulation. There were /are more sophisticated than Iranians. I guess it shows how relatively decent Iranians are. Decency is a virtue - and we trusted the wrong guys.

But we won't do it again. We've learnt our lesson. With 5 Million expat Iranians - maybe there is some more sophistication among us and how the west "works" that did not exist some 35 years ago. \

Lets do something now.

Siavash In order to make Judgements you need information.

Not Guesses, but real data.  From there you can only start to make informed thoughts.  The Short of it is he's right, your wrong.  I don't know how much I want to get into writing a reply.  I think you are missing very important data, that you can only get by speaking with either extremely wealthy people or people who had access to power.

The Brits knew who khomeini was, what his ideas were and that he was of no importance to the shia community, so they helped him set up the killers who later went on to kill most of the senior shia community and come to power, his entire organization was assisted.

By Information, I mean you have to know what their plans were, what their motives were and the extent of help they provided to reach each goal.  For example one piece of secret info, is from all the shredded documents seized and pieced together from the US embassy in Iran.  These have been made into big folders.  They list all the increase in staff and operations of the US/UK and French embassies in finding out who all the prodemocracy, promonarchy groups leads and organizers were and handing the info to khomeini's team of killers to get them all, thousands and thousands of teachers, police officers, shop owners etc, that thought they could get help to a) protect their constitution, b) set up a democratic transition and went to the former allies of the late shah to get help and were all killed.  You have to know why they did this, what their goal was in bringing khomeini and building him up in the world media.

Re: This line of thinking look at our people like a millions useless statues
and stooges standing around and waiting foreigners to make decisions
for them. 

Wrong Again.  No it doesn't.  It acknowledges our difficultes and mistakes and what we are up against, why we haven't been able to do a thing for over 30 years.  It helps people understand why RP II can't speak or act or organize and stay alive, how we can help him, so if the time comes we all have a chance to liberate Iran.  Our people have been enslaved by powers greater than them, by using antisocial elements within Iranian society who foment extremism.  Darling Siavash ths is classic neocolonialism, it worked on India for over 100 years and left them with a corrupt indian society which can't pick it self up from the corruption even after it ended 60 years ago.

Masouda - Libyan Style is fine, boots on the ground ...NO

We don't want US, British etc. boots on the ground inside Iran. Let the people of Iran do the work. We'll cut mullah throats ourselves.

10 years ago (and you can check my blogs) I was an adamant fighter for an invasion. But the times are different today, and I think Iran would splinter if there are foreign boots on the ground. We have to do it ourselves. Only ourselves.

Let them give us arms and ammunition and air cover. But we'll do the job. They at least owe us air cover ...after all their abuse over the past century or so.

Historical manipulation

"The prinicipal vendors were actually France and U.S. During the Reagan administration a 400 Million dollar credit facility was arranged for Saddam Hussein. Also, there are declassified NSA documents detailing sales of components for production of chemical warfare agents.

Now what does this have to do with the Brits."

PLease everybody read the above statement and judge it for yourself. In the above statement nothing has been said about mullah's ambition of conquoring the Iraq land and reaching the Ghodes through Karbala. The writer is only speaking of some jack.. siting on their butts in Washington, London and thinking about fullfiling their pockedt with Iranian oil money. In the eye of the writer, those a**holes are important. Mullah's and their plan for Islamization of the whole world is not important. Their view of martyrdom and taking over the whole world is not important. The writer completely ignored the role that mullahs played in the war with Iraq in the above statement. The role that Khomainie played in those days had been ignored. The religion passion of our youths who ran over mine field in order to go to heaven after death had been ignored. The concept of "Martyrdom" from shia idealogy which mobilized million under age youth to voluntery to walked over mines had been ignored. All those shia idealogy and  concept that was promoted by mullahs in general and Khomainie specifically has been ignored. That was Khomainie ideas, NOT Brits, NOT Ragan idea.  Very obvious fact that Iran state control T.V showing every night armed bassij and their slogans of "we take our lives to go to Al-Ghodes through Karbala" at the begining of the news had been ignored. The khomaini's ideas that was given encourage to Iranian youths for martydom had been ignored.

 Did writers mention anything about our people and Khomainie idea about war? NO,  not at all. All credit had been given to some jack... in Washington and London. That is the problem with this line of thinking for the event 1953 and 1979 as well. This line of thinking look at our people like a millions useless statues and stooges standing around and waiting foreigners to make decisions for them. Another form of Dai Jan Napolean syndrom. That is the pure fabrication of Iran history. No doubt the foreign establishments had spent their money to get what they want from Iran-Iraq war. No one need to be Einstain to realize that. We can go and do research thousands meetings around the world in those days about that war deal. All they wanted to fill out their pockets on the expenses of our people's blood. No doubt about it. We don't argure about greety people around the world. We are talking about our people and our history here. Those foreign establishments were making business out of our war and Iranian's misery. But that is not the the issue. Our focus is Iran and it's history,not washington or London history or their greets or their meetings and their profits from Iran-Iraq war. Our people and Iran is important not other jack... Our history and our people's believe system is important. Not washington or London or Moscow profits and wishes.

Sincerely,

Siavash

Long live our Great people and payandeh our country IRAN.

Wrong Ayatoilet!!

As much as I liked your original post - I must disagree with your following statement: 

".......You know, if there is an attack on Iran - even though I despise the regime in Iran - I think every single Iranian everywhere - would join in the fight against any aggressor....."

Iran is a country under invasion - people need help from the outside world....the same way people in France and Italy did during WW2....or the Lybians did this year and the Syrians do now.    Note that agressions against Iran and IR are two different things - and it is very destructive to make vague statements such as the one you made.  

VPK - why can't we just do it ...

Why can't we just set up a government in exile ...people like you and me and amir and dr. mohandes ...? If other groups want to join - fine - but I really think its a matter of just getting some people together and doing it. Announcing that its done ...and ask people to join in.

I mean what would it take? What could be done - viably - feasibly? Free concerts and movies showings to rally people - and raise cash? Centered in DC? Set up a communication network - get time on satelite TV, website??? And to try to create larger and larger events ...to Rally Iranians everywhere against both the regime - but also those governments behind the regime?

I really am not being idealistic - its all about creating a critical/core mass of really dedicated people; and then building momentum from there. Is it possible for Iranians to work in a team together?

I'm in - if others want to be in.

NOw this is what i am talking about.

These last 4 comments pretty much put everything in a nutshell. That should be a stepping stone to find permanent and workable solutions. 

VPK jan.

I understand where you stand completely and i admire that. I guess when it comes down to it, Really the americans are the more "useful" partner that the Brits... Time will tell ... 

BTW, I don't have any weekend , so to speak  of here where i live... IN tehroon but right back at ya:)

Ayatoilet Jan

Right you are I am with both you Amir plus whoever wants to move on. Instead of all this fighting; insults and stuff we should provide options. What do you propose people do. I don't know.

In the past I propose a "government in exile" including all sane parties. Which will be anyone other than MEK. Here are a few suggestions:

• A government in-exile with all sane parties.
• No MEK sorry!
• No fighting over who gets what title; who gets a big office.
• No one gets a title or an office.
• Work out of your house;  everyone's title is "member".
• Be realistic; work with Americans they are good allies.