ayatoilet1

Dear Amir

I think we are both on the same page and agree we need to move on. It is tiring to read yet another praise or attack on Shah; Mossadegh ... But come on now we are Iranian still talking about Cyrus and will for centuries:-)

Yes agreed we should be working on what is next. If you read my posts they are very future oriented. I get tired of some (not you) who seem to take joy in attacking Iranian people. But you are right got to focus on just what you say.

Meanwhile I guarantee you this regime will go or be radically changed post Khamenei. No I am not saying it will reform just be different. No *** way the others will let Khamenei put his son as the new king..

VPK/AMIR: I AM WILLING TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY

I think we have to start with each and every person - as an individual. You have to lead by example. I am willing to take responsibility and do whatever is neccesary to make the situation better. Stand up to anyone. Do what must be done. 

And by the way, I think there are many Brave Iranians that have taken responsibility. Look at our prisons. Look at who how many hundreds of thousands, maybe millions demostrated back in 2009. Look at the one Million or so Iranians who died in the Western imposed Iraqi Attack on Iran.

You know, if there is an attack on Iran - even though I despise the regime in Iran - I think every single Iranian everywhere - would join in the fight against any aggressor. By the way, I do think Iranians should stand up to Aliev (Azerbaijan) and Berminduhamedow (Turkmenistan) - and related Western Oil companies for drilling in Iranian waters.  We should ALL fight for Iranian sovereignty.

We must all take responsibility. I agree with that. But it starts with me and you ...and VPK ...and .... Lets lead by example. We can each make a difference.  

One more thing

DM Jan: I realize no one should permanently cut relations. But if I had my way I would give as much *** to Britain as I would get away with. 

I would put the American oil companies in front of the line; BP all the way at the back. That would make Americans happy and piss off the British: good! Kind of thing that will not have a real cost to Iran but show them there is a price to their past behavior. 

VPK

I agree with much of what you state in your post. And yes, all people, including Iranians, should learn from history. But it seems to me that some Iranians have become prisoners of history (or at least their own interpretation of history). Just to give one example, the unity that I think should otherwise exist between monarchists and supporters of a secular republic is broken because of the never-ending disagreement about the ouster of Mosaddeq in 1953.

Baba, Mosaddeq and the Shah are gone and out of power. I think we can agree that both Mosaddeq and the Shah were a million times better than the animals currently running Iran. The reality of Iran here and now is the filthy IRI. Regime change here and now should be our focus, and in my opinion, by any means necessary short of a ground invasion (which is quite unlikely any way). In any event, that's my 2 cents.

Dear DM

I am a realist and the only power that matters is USA. Britain has always been a pain in the ***. The way they behave is unproductive and I see no benefit in dealing with them until they grow up and learn they are not God.

Regarding personal responsibility I have said all I have to say. Repeating it si pointless. There is enough to go around. Anyone who wants to may go some research and find out for themselves. It is all there from 1953 to hostages to Iraq.

The one thing I will absolutely not put up with it guilt put on innocents. People who had not even been born are not responsible for 1979. It boggles the mind how would this even be an issue to debate. Anyway have a good weekend. 

VPK

But....

You were always for making a deal with Both of Them The USA ANd the UK... I am kinda surprised that you have changed position On UK!! In fact, I seem to recall, Too bad that i don;t have the time to go back and dig it all up that You were specially and specifically and Particularly against making any deals and giving any concessions to the Americans!!!

 Not that it really matters... I was just wondering. I think that in this day and age it is not too practical to cut ties of any kind with any country, It is a global Society we are living in and All the atrocities and bad blood and whatever one did to the other aside, We all need each other to survive. 

The issue regarding Accepting responsibility has gotten way out of hand on this site and much to my chagrin i see clearly the so many wise and intelligent commenters are making a big issue out of it...  

Dear Amir1973

Is never taking responsibility a problem among some Iranians?

I am only going to respond for myself: no it is not a problem for me. My whole life I took responsibility for my actions. I was not one of the millions who marched for Khomeini. Those people do bear responsibility. But that is not the whole story:

• Median age of Iranians is 26.4 meaning most Iranians were not around in 1979. Now add to that the fact that no one under say 12 even know what is going on. The vast majority of Iranians have zero responsibility bringing Khomeini. They did not march for him. This is a matter of math not opinion. If you don't agree fine prove or show me how did someone who was born in 1990 march for Khomeini.
• There is a lot of blame to go round including people who supported Khomeini. But not limited to them.
• You should know people are easy to manipulate. Don't tell me otherwise because it is a fact. The brilliant Germans got manipulated by Hitler. Right now Americans are being manipulated to vote against their own economic interest. 

Iranians got manipulated the same way other people are. From promises of free electricity to Cinema Rex there was a well run effort. One to promote Khomeini and other to demonize the Shah.

In addition whether you like it or not there were grievances against the West. Britain in particular has treated Iran like garbage. America was better; much better but still got the blame for 1953. The roots of the Islamic Republic go to 1953 and beyond.

The Americans have a name for it "blow back". It is a recognized phenomena. The British have no one but themselves to blame. 

You know what? If Iran were to get a secular democracy my vote will be to have no relation with Britain. I would politely ask them to leave and take their diplomats. No acting like thugs just very politely drive them to the airport and send them back.

America is very different and not an enemy of Iran. I would gladly make a deal with them and be their ally. But the British may stuff it and go to ***.

Is never taking responsibility a problem among some Iranians?

Is it a problem among some (NOT all) of our fellow compatriots that they never assign any responsibility to the actions of Iranians in getting Iran into its current situation? Is "Dai Jan Napoleon" Syndrome still alive and well among some of our fellow compatriots? How is the anti-Western/anti-US anti-attitude of some of those compatriots any different from that of the flag burners and "Death to (Fill in the Blank)" chanters?

Okay, the millions of Iranians who foolishly and mistakenly marched for Emam don't have any responsibility.

Dear Ayatoilet

Thank you for being honest and bringing a bit of reality here. I am sick of this pretend that "poor British" did nothing. The ba*** first stir up trouble; pour gasoline on it; then scream: watch the savages.

The worst part is Iranians who buy the garbage line; hook and sinker. Thank you for setting it straight. The biggest damage is to the psyche of our people. They want to break us and got their allies knowing or unknowingly assisting them.

Any blog  or post which fails to remind us of British involvement hurts Iranian people. We have to get our act together but never forget who pushes ignorance on people. Those who do not know history will repeat it this time with MEK.

AMIR 1973: Who Brought Khomeini to Power?

Amir - just sit back, analyze how the revolution was manipulated? What did the BBC do? Who bankrolled Khomeini for decades before he came on the scene? What did General Huyzer ask of Iran's military? Who paid for Khomeini's Air France Charter to Tehran? Who landed in Iran with Khomeini? Are any his entourage now established unquestioned foreign agents? Did Carter/Democrats have a beef with the Shah? Did the Brits have a beef with the Shah? Who sold Arms to Iran from 1982 to 1988? What was Iran-Contra all about? When did McFarlane visit Iran and give a Reagan signed bible to Rafsanjani? How long were the contra fighters in Central America finances from proceeds of arms sales to Iran? Who and when were components for chemical agents sold to Iraq? Why were they sold to Iraq?

If you do your homework...you'll anwer your own question. I don't have to answer it.  Little Satan wags the Great Satan's tail. Just open your mouth with a British accent in the U.S. and the idiot americans will lap it up. If an American Oil company had the number of disasters that BP had in the US over the past 20 years - they would have been shut down by now - but the Brits seduce the Americans. I'm not just talking about Deep Horizon in the Gulf of Mexico. I am talking about refinery explosions where people died (several of them), Alaskan Pipeline spills (yes BP owned and operated that line), not to mention the actual Exxon Valdeez spill - which was actually the "fault" or "responsibility" of BP (who according to the safety protocol of the Alaskan consortium, which they owned a majority share of) should have been immediately dealt with by BP rescue crews who did not show up for more than 12 hours after the Valdeez had grounded. Little Satan is like a cancer inside Big Satan.  Who gave the U.S. false intelligence on Iraq? Who talked about Uranium tubes from Niger? Who undermined Ambassador Wilson's report and analysis? Who now owns and operates Iraq's two largest oil fields? Poor big satan - they have been f*cked even worse than Iranians by little satan. They have gone bankrupt listening to Little Satan's seductive advice.

Did Emam Khomeini extend the war from 1982 to 1988?

Or was it the fault of the Great Satan (US) and Little Satan (UK)?

Siavash300: On the Iran-Iraq war

Just so you know, I have every single published book on the Iran-Iraq war in my library. And I am writing a new book called the Murder of a Million Iranians. It should get published next year. So you're not talking to someone that has zero knowledge of the subject, and likely (without being arrogant) a lot more than you.

Okay, just to quickly skim through facts. The Iran-Iraq was that I am refering to, is the invasion on 9/22/80 which lasted for 8 years. Now according to detailed records, there were meetings with senior Iraqi military officers as early as 8/79 in Jordan and senior intelligence officers from the West. There was detailed planning and financing by the West and major Arab (puppet states) like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and UAE for Saddam Hussein. There are detailed minutes of meetings between Saddam Hussein and Faisal in Riyadh during his state trip in 8/80 just before the war started. And there are detailed reports by General Haig - when he took over as foreign secretary in the Reagan administration (1981) and was briefed on the war both in the US, Europe and also in Saude Arabia. Although many parties tried to destroy records and not write anything down, there is sufficient evidence still about who gave Saddam the green light and who supported him. 

Arms were sold to both sides. Iraqis did have Russian armaments, but Russia had stopped selling arms to Iraq several years before the start of the war. Russia re-entered arm sales two years after the war started when Iranian alienated Russia and rounded up their agents in Tehran and started imprisoning and killing known communists.

The prinicipal vendors were actually France and U.S. During the Reagan administration a 400 Million dollar credit facility was arranged for Saddam Hussein. Also, there are declassified NSA documents detailing sales of components for production of chemical warfare agents.

Now what does this have to do with the Brits. The Brits actually sold arms to both sides, and provided banking support for almost all the transactions. I mean letters of credit, etc. The brits actually had their hand in virtually every aspect of the war from the early planning stages, to transactional support, to persuading Rafsanjani to directly confront Khomeini to sue for peace.

Iraq borrowed 80 Billion dollars to fight the war. And had $130 Billion in outstanding debt when the U.S. invaded in 2001 without interest.  Over $40 Billion came from the West (Paris Club). If you look at the list of nations that Iraq owed money to, and the Americans asked for "forgiveness" from during several post 2001 invasion conferences. Britain is listed as a party.  The Brits also sold arms and tactical support accessories to Iran in billion dollar volumes and there were $57 billion in unpaid contracts at the time of the invasion. Details on these contracts are scant (but they we do know they owed Korea's Hyundai corporation 1.1 Billion, and some Chinese contractors too..) Granted the Russians were worse hit ($12 Billion), so were the French. Which is why they opposed the invasion. I could give you more precise numbers. Iraqis processed their loan payments and transactions etc. through British bank accounts.

The Brits (especially) played both sides. Made profits. And underreported the extent of the carnage on the battle field in the international media systems they control. Not least, the very regimes that was being "toppled" by the war effort were both brought to power by British intelligence. And also not inconsequentially, the very map of modern Iraq was a British cartographers straight line design custom created to maximize british exploitation of Iraqi Oil. In almost every way, the Brits are directly responsible for the war itself.

The person that doesnot know the history or the details is you. No one is fabricating anything. Go off and read some books, and then make accusations.

Great Facts, Ayatoilets

I also agree with comment.

agree!

british only 4 themself

Ayatoilet 1 wrong information.

"You pushed Saddam hussein to invade Iran. Sell arms to both sides. Extend the Iran-Iraq war for 8 years" Ayatoilet

The war was between Iraq and Iran initiated late 60's over Shat-Al-Arab river. Iraqis claim the ownership of that river and Iran Shahanshahi army put them in place. In 1980, right after shah's death, Saddam found the army vulnerable and shah is gone and it is the best time to reach Iraqis long wish of taking over Shat_Al- Arab. He miscalculated and soon he realized our shahanshahi army were still alive and much stronger than what he was thinking. Soon he realized that he will be defeated. Therefore, he proposed the peace, but mullahs were ambitious and they wanted to take over Iraq. They were saying the way to reach Al-Ghodes is through Iraq. Iran's state control T.V every night at the begining of the news showing the army heading foward Al-Ghodes through Iraq. Saudi Arabia government agreed to pay all costs to Iran. They wanted to pay for the war damage to Iran, but mullahs didn't want to end the war and wanted to take over Iraq and exported their Islamic revolution. Plus Saddam was bombing Iran by Mig 13 which was exclusively made by Russians, NOT Brits or Americans. The writer of this blog is giving wrong informations to the readers. No one like Brits, but that doesn't warrant to fabricate Iran's history. Please don't fabricate Iran's history.

Thanks,

Payandeh Iran.

dear ayatoilet....

i don't know how to put this....but GOD BLESS YOU......you have verbalized what I have been feelling for the past 30 years!!!!

what you have said are ALL FACTS AND THE TRUE REALITY of what has plagued our beautiful vatan for the past 300 years....

payback is a bee-aa-ch as they say, and I'm very hopeful that the this is the end for the filthy akhoonds and their masters, the brits....

the souls of dr bakhtiar, gen rahimi, reza shah are all watching iran and waiting for long overdue justice....

here's to a free iran....33 years in the waiting 

This blog has got at least one thing right about them...

"You f*cking hypocrites"

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Bahmani why do we let them?

The issue is they can continue to use their cocktail with different variations on us 1000 times, because our intellectuals haven't learnt at a fundamental level, the way the west uses manipulation, deceit and coercion in its recipe for us.  You can't out smart something you can't clearly see and define.  If people could see it they would all realize exactly why Irans democrats need to pony on up and rally around the monarchy and organize and defend it with absolute devotion.  What they use on us works so well because it has first been tested on their own intellectuals.  First they fool their own, then they deal with us.  They used to divide the world into black and white people, when that stopped working they moved on and started dividing the world into democracys and dictatorships, this is what is at the heart of the manipulation.  I can tell you don't grasp it because I read your work and it misses the details of the why, the how and the when.

...

سلام به شما ،حضرتِ عالی‌ بدین گونه میخواهید رفتار کنید ؟ این تصمیمِ شما است و قابلِ احترام،دشنام دادن و انتقاد کردن به شخصی‌ که مملکت را بدین روز انداخته است شاید چندان مهم نباشد (هر چند ضعفِ شخصیتِ طرف را عیان کند) ،مهم اینجاست که خاندان آن شخص بی‌ گناه هستند و اینجا و یا بلاگِ هر شخص دیگر باید منزه ز این گناه باشد.حریم را باید حفظ کرد.خطِ قرمز خانواده است،به خصوص افرادی که در گذشته اند.ما ایرانی هستیم و تمام از یک ریشه پاک و اصل و نسبی بی‌ همتا در دنیا،به ما یاد داده اند که به خانواده اول باید احترام گذاشت.وگرنه آن نظر،عقیده و بحث که همراهِ با فحش و دشنام باشد،به درد هیچ نخورد و همانا که هیچ گفته نشود.اندکی‌ اندیشه در این راه لازم است،چاقو کشی‌ و تهدید خلایق در خورِ ما پارسیان نیست.می‌ نشینیم و به راحتی‌ به دورِ همدگر بحث می‌کنیم و تمام .

در رابطه با اسلامیونِ کثیف و انگلیسیهایِ نابکار با شما موافقیم.

خداوند ایران زمین را از شرِ جاسوسان،نابکاران،نوکران،اجنبیانِ مال اندوز،شیوخِ بی‌ ناموس پاک سازد.

با سپاس .

Baraye Javab be Red Wine

In vagheyate mahze. 

If we know they do this, why do we let them?

This excellent listing of the hypocrisy of the UK towards Iran beautifully illustrates the dichotomy of the ongoing rhetoric.

On the one hand the UK stands for this grand ideal.

On the other, they certainly don't live up to it historically, now do they!

This is all the more disheartening because you'd think that as Iranians who have full and well known this for hundreds of years now, we would learn from it, and self govern and dictate the terms to our benefit and position ourselves carefully to above all, not lose in the bargain.

But no, instead we abandon our destiny and right to decide, and relinquish our children's futures to an unproven god, and get ridden like pack animals gnawed at the neck by beasts.

At some point, I have to believe that all of the collective smarts and cumulative wisdom of free Iranians is going to finally add up, swell up, and burst through and wash away all of this incessant bullshit.

Then we can go to Chatanoga, sit on the patio, order vodka limes and pineapple parfaits, and watch young beautiful Iranian girls walk by, hair blowing in a soft Tehran summer evening's breeze.

To read more bahmani posts visit: //brucebahmani.blogspot.com/

Ayatoilet you should have posted this video

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=17eSUnQ-_ek

...

Harpi-Eagle

هم میهنِ گرامی‌ ...

ما آن پاسخِ شما را حملِ بر دشنام و توهین نکردیم و تنها اشاره‌ای کوتاه بداشتیم در رابطه افرادی که هیچ بویی از انسانیت نبردند و بی‌ اطلاع از شرایطِ زمانه،بی‌ احترامی میکنند و حرمت شکنی ! این افراد تروریست‌هایِ اخلاقی‌ هستند و باید در برابرِ ایشان ایستاد و اجازه نداد که سر بلند کنند،اینجا یک محدوده خانوادگی است که مردم به دورِ هم مینشینند و در رابطه با جریاناتِ خاصی به صحبت مینشینند،به هیچ وجهی نمیتوان تحمل کرد توهین و دشنام به حرمت و حدِ خانواده.دیگر دورانِ استبدادی و استعماری به پایان رسیده است و مردم کم کم چشم و گوش باز میشوند و طرفداری‌هایِ بی‌ جا و بی‌ خاصیت نمیکنند.در جنگل که زندگی‌ نمی‌کنیم آخر !

همانطور که گفتیم،هر کس،از هر کسی‌ و چیزی میتواند انتقاد کند ،بحث و جدال کرده و ناا رضایتی‌ نشان دهد و حتی از شخصِ اولِ سیاستِ قاجار که شاه آن دوران (قانونی نه مثلِ دیگران تقلبی و اجنبی در خانه نشین !) باشد انتقاد کند و ایراد گیرد.اگر حرفِ شما منطقی‌ باشد،ما و هیچ کسِ دیگر بحثی‌ در آن مورد ندارد،اما وای اسفا که بسیاری از مردمان به خاطرِ بی‌ اطلاعی از تاریخِ معاصرِ کشورمان نظراتی می‌‌دهند که در هیچ قوطیِ عطاری یافت نشود،اما به ما چه ! آنقدر نظراتِ بی‌ پایه دهند تا نظر دانشان پاره گردد،فحش و توهین به حریمِ خانوادگی ممنوع است و سخت با آن مبارزه می‌‌شود.

با سپاس از توجه شما .

Guys Of the Panel, What to do?

If the Nato Groupies Want to create an Iranian National Council, like the Syrian National Council or the Lybian National Council, do we swallow it to remove the Mullahs or do we Denounce it and create an opposition to foreign meddling in our quest for Freedom?

What say the panel?  Politically if Nato does all the real fighting via surgical bombing and iranians follow up to capture the remnants its going to kill legitimacy and the country will be indebted/beholden to masters with names like William and Bob.  No real legitimacy, though having the mullahs removed is appealing.

Excellent Post Ayatoilet1 - except

When you say Europe - you need to make sure to distinguish between Northern Europe Royals (England, Holland, Norway, Denmark,.....) and Countries like Germany, France,.....  It is very important we recognize where we are getting hit from.   Check GDP's of countries like UK, Norway, Holland....you will see they have all skyrocketed since the Iranian Revolution of 1978!!  

All of this while the mullahs insist on yelling death to America...Death to Isreal....

Also

Know that Northern Europe Royals consider USA their fort!! right now with their boy Obama in the White House, they consider USA a wild dog whose leashe is in their hands....a dog that when it comes to international affairs will act as they please - even against USA interests!!

That Brits are scum is given but....

         We always have had the privilege(!) of domestic crooks and despots as well!

Red Wine

Please let me clarify that the comment I wrote was in response to your 1st comment on this blog.  I too am against personal or personality attacks and sincerely hope that you did not consider the previous comment as such.

Regards,

Harpi-Eagle

Payandeh Iran, our Ahuraie Fatherland

What is it with people who Jeesh darand & need the ayaToilet?

I am sure UK and Britain return the compliment. Clam down dear ...

Harpi-Eagle

هم میهنِ گرامی‌ ...

شما میتوانید از سیاستِ شاهانِ قاجار انتقاد کرده و نظرِ خود را به اثبات برسانید اما هیچ کس اجازه ندارد پرده دری کند و به اقوام،فامیل،خاندان،خانواده و باز ماندگانِ قاجار توهین و بی‌ احترامی کند،انتقاد هیچ اشکالی ندارد،چیزی که ما به هیچ وجهی اجازه نمیدهیم،بی‌ احترامی به باز ماندگان است.

موفق باشید.