ayatoilet1

Take responsibility

I'm not going to say that the British are not the most ignoble kingdom in the history of the world -- they are. But ultimately, nobody can f*ck you if you master your own domain.

It's time to stop talking so much, and start working toward OUR CAUSE. We have the longest history of nationhood in the world. We are the FIRST nation, and the first to have declared human rights principles (which the British violated in several eras, ie slavery). But that is also our problem: we are hung up on arguing over the past. We must stop looking at where we were and what we lost, and start to look to the future. We would see that all these expensive lessons were for us to learn: not how much we have lost, but that we already had it in our spirit of multicultural openness to be co-civilizers of a world that opened itself to our goodness.

As for the British, the best discovery they've ever made was democracy as a way to control leadership of other nations. They sell it to every other nation except their own. They want more than anyting to be the neo-Persians. Just look at the symbology. Even their most prized Empire State Crown is decorated with Derafsh Kaviani at its top.

America have something to do with Iran?

You must be joking, how could anyone even consider putting all the blame with the leading power of the world USA?

Ayatoilet Jan

I just want readers to know that, and understand that you are responding to a blog by AmirParviz and NOT the blog itself.

You are right actually I was responding to posts by Amirparviz. Not to yours. I find your points valid. Nor do they need wait for long term. It has already bit them in the back. Therefore your point is well made and right. They did make a big mistake.

Our biggest mistake will be to buy the arguments of Amirparviz. Put it all on America; be the helpless babies he implies we are. The argument to give up hope; just sit back and wait. That is the worst thing anyone should do. A self fulfilling path to nowhere.

I think there are constructive paths forward

VPK - there is NO bitterness or anger here, just simple set of facts. Facts that no-one can deny. Nothing in the blog talks about monarchists or Mossadegh etc.

I just want readers to know that, and understand that you are responding to a blog by AmirParviz and NOT the blog itself.

My only accusation here is that the West (and specifically Europe) has been very hypocritical with respect to its policies vis-a-vis Iran and the IRI.

In the long-run I think it will come back and bite them. Its a big mistake.

Bitter and angry

I am getting a feeling of bitter anger but no solutions from posters. Whatever you see is past what about now? Give some proposals. Maybe the people on IC are just the wrong people. From all the only thing I get is complaining.

• Monarchists say: Iranians betrayed the Shah. 
• Mossadeghi say: Iranians betrayde Mossadegh
• Mazhabi say:This is not the "real" Islam.

All of you got convenient ways to complain but not one solution. Other than people like Fred who say attack and remove IRI. Or Parsi who says do nothing. At least Fred got some ideas does anyone else have any?

Shustari I agree with your sentiment

The late Shah being betrayed by Iranians was the worst thing they could have done.  Now we want his son to Free those who betrayed his father.  The Late Shah did not deserve being betrayed.  No Love, no Respect, no Appreciation is one thing, to be betrayed is entirely different and unacceptable.

Response

I have a different take from the rest of recent posters. I want to see Iran restored to a decent Iranian run nation. Freed of Islamist BS and influence. Restoration of Monarchy is one way but not the only way to do it. 

I am not going to argue about RP any more. Obviously we are on different wavelengths. Hey I don't oppose RP and would gladly accept him. But am not holding my breath. If he wants the job he must fight for it. If not then move out of the way and abdicate.

Dear Shushtari: Being king is often a thankless job. It is not about glory and respect but risk. The reward is helping your nation. Nobody requires RP to do it. I request he do the job or abdicate. Do not have people waiting for action that will not happen.

Siavash, Shah, Shah, Iran, Shah, Shahhanshahe Iraneh ma.

These are really scary times for Iran.  Instead of supporting the opposition groups, all of which RP II has contact with and encourages, the USA is not supporting either war or regime change.  They are working on separatist movements, like they did in russia, arming and financing etc.  I oppose this totally. 

Javid Shah, Reza Pahlavi II the lawful Shah han Shah of Iran.

AmirP... question

"What common ground do you see between us 3? " Amirp...

The common ground is better future for Iran and the fact that only way to prosperity and success is crown Reza Pahlavi to take a office soon.  Our Goal : restoring monarchy in our country.

Dorood bar Reza Pahlavi the legit king of Iran zamin.

Payandeh Iran

Shustari you reiterated my comment thanks

I believe Iranians deserve the best like you do clearly and that one of our obstacles is that in the last 100 years we have shown that we are not willing to have and keep the best we could produce.  When many of us were busy betraying the late king it was not because we wanted more honesty, but we wanted to see what more we could get individually, since that didn't work out well maybe now is the time to encourage Iranians to be willing to be loyal and principalled in a way that our mulahs have not been and to discard them due too their poor qualities and example they have given Iran, unlike the pahlavi's.

VPK its okay to disagree

I could go on and point out the holes in your statement, but that doesn;t serve either of us or Iran.  Read my post I didn't call you oghdehi, I made an observation that the only reason I could suppose for you and ayatoilet not accepting a legitimate point is having a complex/oghdeh.  I may be wrong.  The intention was not to insult, but to inspire to look within and ask if you are blaming the person, no way of me knowing this. 

What I see is that we agree on somethings, unlike in the case with siavash, our weaknesses are being exploited, that is real issues that we socially are being manipulated with deceit/propaganda and foreign powers are benefitting immensly from our weaknesses.  Correct or No?  What common ground do you see between us 3?

Personally I believe Iran can go furthur on a more independent path like China.  With economic alliiances with just USA, not military ones.  I also think we all agree that what iran needs is love, not the rest, including a most important part of love, self love/self esteem and we oppose Iranians that do not help cultivate that. So we like loyalty, honesty, caring etc. 

why would RP

even WANT to be king???

his father and grandfather spent their lives trying to modernize iran and bring iran some respect in the community of nations, and they are still being disrespected and not appreciated.  

Heck, they shah did all he could, walked the away without massacaring the idiots who were in love with the mullahs(even though he could have easily)....and he's still being called a ruthless dictator

His mother, queen farah, has endured hell on earth for 33 years, and etc. etc

why the heck would he do anything to free the same idiots who betrayed his father?? 

Iran contra hearing

Oliever North in his testimony stated clearly that "we sold arms to Iran for release of hostages in Lebanon". One of those hostage was Terry Anderson who was being captive in Lebanon for some years.  Iran contra affair was a big scandal in 80's. Ali Khamanie as a president made a trip to New York to attend in U.N. Ted Kapple had an interveiw with him on nighline. He clearly said that " we bought parts for our U.S made weapns from second hand or black market for double or triple prices, but we don't want to deal with America". From Mc Farland trip to Tehran and his secret negociation with mullahs agents back in mid 80's all and all shows that U.S was providing supply to Iran to fight against Saddam, NOT Brits, NOT USSR because all our weapons were puchased from U.S during shah's days. Mullahs needed those parts for to take over Iraq. 

Once Barbara Walter had an interview with Saudi millionair in his yacht who was a middle man for selling U.S arms to Iran.

We can go on and on and put dollar signs on those people who made millions on the misery of Iranian people in order to reach our agenda, but truth is something else.

The truth is Shiaism and their views about life and death. It was Khomainie's ambition to take over Iraq in order to expand Islamic empire. Mullahs didn't want to end the war. They wanted to reach Ghodes through Iraq. Very common knowledge in those days. That idea couldn't be replaced with Saudi man and his bank account or Mc farland trip to Tehran. That idea couldn't be replace with the profits that foreign establishments received from the war.

Nasser Macaroom Shirazi in his monthly magazine of "Maktab e Eslam" frequently talked about Islam army who defeated Persian and Roman empires and ruled over Spain for 800 years. Taking over Spain had been mullah's ambition for a long time. They used to call it "Andules", NOT Spain. Khomaini wanted that idea comes to reality. That's why he didn't want to end the war. NOT Brits or Americans. No, it was Khomanie who frequently mentioned our youths are thinking about putting Islamic flag on the top of white house.

Falsafi, one of the most famous shia clergy had frequently preached about muslim taking over Spain and forced Roman to pay Jazeyeh. He was talking about muslims very highly in his speeches in mosques back in 60's.

Al Zarquawi who was killed during Iraq liberation by U.S forces clearly stated in his maniscript that "stratgy is to establish Emarats (states) of Islami and appoint a Khalifeh on each state". He further said Iraq has been historically battlefield of muslims.

These are ongoing issues, not $$ that Saudi millionair,  Saddam, Mc Farland or others made during 8 year. 

Amirparviz

You have not proved anything by repeating your same taking points. Face it man RP may be a nice guy but he is not up to the job. Don't blame it on the Americans. It is his own lack of ambition. 

I absolutely hate the MEK and will oppose them. But MEK knows how to be active. They go and lobby non stop. Building support among all too stupid to know them. If RP has one tenth of their energy he would have built a ton of support by now.

One last thing. I never called you names or insulted you. But you call me and Ayatoilet "Ogdehi". It is because you ran out of arguments. How sad to see the same response from all. No argument means resort to name calling and fohsh.

Results show real versus false hope VPK

I've been trying to explain to you that while RP is one person, he has quite a large team working for him to get results with the USA.  People that have contacts at the highest levels of making policy and implementing it.  This effort on my part explaining RP teams efforts, has been far from successful as I can see, by the comment "expecting RP to do anything other than sit on his bottom." Its been about as successful as RP teams efforts with USA LOL.  Ask yourself this at least and sleep on it a little, with comments like yours and Ayatoilets (regarding pahlavi's in general, based on little understanding), would you even want to serve Iranians? I have to hand it to the man for putting a focus of his life on Iran through the people he works with, assuming you are a part of iranian consensus thought, he's certainly not understood or appreciated, at least not the way I would expect for a leader that is fighting against the odds to give people the opportunity to make a free choice while trying to bring down a hezbollahi regime that they can't stand yet are forced to put up with because it is so tyrannical that it kills without a trial many people each year.  Other than Ogdeh/complex, I can't see any other explanation for this situation.

Sweet Dreams everyone : )

Amirparviz

Who defines "real" vs "false" hope then we don't have a crystal ball. If I were to define it this is what I would say:

• False hope: expecting RP to do anything other than sit on his bottom.
• Real hope: work and dedication will get results.

My two cents for tonight and I am going to sleep :-)

VPK

False hope is different than real hope VPK.

Real hope has to be renewed.  Real hope needs a basis in truth.  Yes Real hope is necessary. RP II and many others are trying, infact they have been since 1979, that they have not made progress is not because they don't have the right people, its because the truth hasn't support it so far, yet I'm sure they will still try.

Real hope would say that change is possible, it may not have been up until now, but the regime with its mistake on the british embassy gives reason for real hope. Right now the USA and its allies have zero hope on containing IRI, covert actions will not stop it completely either.  They won't bomb it because the consequence of that is obvious (though never discussed or known by most) and too stupid.  Yet the UK gets everything it needs through Russia, not so with the USA. So soon this situation is reaching the point where the USA has to decide how the final chapter will end for its part, we haven't got there yet, but all stories have a final chapter and do come to an end. Still may not go our way thats just because Americans are dumb.  

They'd rather run a govt on bribes from the brits than logic, thats fine.  In that case we'll need another real basis for hope.  Provided we can unite and oppose all independence/disintigration movements and win, we will have a basis for hope, since its impossible to bring hezbollahis back after this hezbollahi regime.

Amirparviz

The defeatist attitude bothers us all, but false hope is worse.

I disagree; hope is vital and no hope is false because by definition it is not a guarantee. Hope makes you try and you may succeed. Giving up before you try is a guarantee of failure. 

I agree with trying to mend alliances, no harm in it however

it requires both sides and what I know is that has not been possible due to interference from a 3rd power which pretends it has no good relations with Russia yet is totally in bed with them. This could work in our favor as the USA is starting to see this and it may give us the opportunity we need to have first of all.  Regarding RP, I know people that work with and for him and though I don't speak for him, know that it is not a question of him being up to the job or not, some of these people worked with his father and say he is far stronger and more well rounded, their words not mine.  My opinions are based on people who I trust. Everything they have said to me has over the last decade has proven itself in the actions of governments related to the changes we see.

The defeatist attitude bothers us all, but false hope is worse.

Amirparviz

Whatever you say. I give up :-) I really like you but you have a soft spot for RP. In my humble opinion you refuse to see his inaction. I also find the defeatist attitude frustrating. and a major reason we Iranians do nothing.

Now in my opinion RP is not up to the job and barring a miracle will not be. I also do not think USA and Britain are as tied at the hip as you seem to imply. They are different nations with different priorities.

But you may be right and I may be wrong. I am only human and make mistakes. Neither one of us will convince the other at this time. If you are right then there is no point in wanting an alliance with USA. Nevertheless it still makes sense to organize.

RP has many Big Names and Powerful Supporters on his side

People with big organizations, people working with cia etc. They're not just sitting there. His issue is his teams haven't been able to get the USA to change their policy, not just because they don't agree with him, but there are competing powers that the USA is prioritizing over the interests of the people of Iran.

Amirparviz

I think you did not get my point we need to have organization.

• By myself I am not big and not in a position to influence USA. We need a much broader group. With big names that is why I suggested RP. Without big names and organization I am not going to get anywhere.
• I don't know what you mean by RP trying to influence USA. My view shows that RP is doing nothing. Just sitting there and once in a while issuing a statement. I am not going to call him names but he does not show any ability.

Regardless something will happen and when it does RP will not matter. I will do my bit of calling representatives; Senators and Obama's office. 

We see the situation very differently,

If you are right move in that direction and make it happen.

If I'm right you'll see not only doesn't that happen UK/US will work together at the expense of Iranians. Unless something big causes the relationship to break.  In which case RP II will have been right to continue trying to get the US to change.

For me your idea seems like getting //www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=P9Fyey4D5hg to become the next leader of Iran, nemisheh.

Ayatoilet this is the heart of the problem

The USA won't prioritize Irans Interests or even see them as equal to UK's.  VPK just does't get it.  The Brits are too strong in the USA.  No US President from either Party has had as many votes they could count on in congress/senate as the brits.  Thats why I'm trying to explain to him, it is a not possible.  So far brits power on IRI has diminished and been replaced by Russia, they have less to bring to the table and are very happy to partner with Russia to screw Iran as long as they get to be in a position to retain control over Iran to serve themselves. Their influence over the USA and politics in the USA screws us in this idea of yours and VPK's. I'm saying it won't work.  Even the Israeli lobby is terrified of them and won't go against them for their own survival interests.  If UK/US relations sour one day, I hope soon, then the whole game will change, but the brits are happy to prostitute their wives and children and throw in all their neighbours too to keep it a secure relationship.  Shah got knocked out by them and the USA hasn't been able to fix it due to their immense power in the USA. When you can help a peanut farmer become a governor and then help him become president, you have serrious power and better alliances than Shah.

Ayatoilet Jan

You got it right my friend and I agree with all you said. RP is useful in forming a "Government In Exile". But yes he should not expect to be "king". It would alienate parties like JM which are necessary.

Americans will be it and I would definitely not bring in Arab nations. Or Turkey for that matter. It has to be America and Iranian people. The real danger is separatism. Now to their credit Americans kept Iraq together. A nation far more divided than Iran.

The greatest power wanting to keep Iran together is China. They hate separatism. They were victims of it with Hong Kong and Taiwan. Chinese will sympathize with Iran and may veto any move to break her. It is not the most powerful but still a worthy ally.

Historically

Those who played America's game did well. The one exception was the Carter regime. Iran had several things going against it:

• Shah tried going his way and stopped playing the game. In particular pissed off BP by refusing to renew the favorable oil deal which was up in 1978. 
• The British got mad at Shah and Carter never liked the Shah to begin with. It was very simple to get him to not back the Shah.
• Stupidity of our own people and popularity of Mazhab. This should never be forgotten. Iranian people bear the ultimate responsibility for Khomeini.

Regarding RP I see him doing nothing . I  do not buy the argument that he is "told" not to act. If he were a worthy leader he would have done something by now. I am sorry but from my view he is just not up to the job. We need to find another person.

VPK

VPK & AmirParviz: I agree with the general approach

Someone has to exhibit leadership, form a government in exile and bring forward some decent support (from USA) for a decisive change in Iran. RP can do it as a citizen - but not as a king or king in making.

I would be careful NOT to include the Brits. I just don't know anyone anywhere that has had a positive experience with their meddling. Their hated in Europe - the Irish despise them, the french can't stand them, and the germans secretly harbor anger towards them. In asia the Chinese have long memories and deeply distrust them - and still talk of the time they imported Opium into China and took over Hong Kong etc. The Indians obviously would shit on them if they could - after all the colonial shenanigans they had to put up with. Iranians for sure have a long brutal history with British meddling - the splinter of Afghanistan, theft of oil, alliances with Russia etc. In south america - well the Argenitinans fought them only what 30 years ago. In North America - real americans remember British brutality during the revolutionary war, and understand how they have been manipulated by the Brits - everything from setting up Pearl Harbor's bombing with their agents in Japan, to false intelligence on Iraq or even BP's responsibility for the two worse oil disasters in America. In Africa - their involvement with white supremacists in South Africa and their colonial legacy is really not that great. My fear is that if the Brits get involved in anything to do with Iran - they'll screw it up - and screw it up for hundreds of years - like in Palestine and Israel. Look at their puppet regimes in Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan!!! The Brits would splinter Iran in a heartbeat.

The key is to get the US to go it alone or with limited assistance from specific nations - but NOT the Brits.

VPK I love your search for the ideal win-win.

I want you to be among US decision makers who are behind the politicians, multinational reps, policy makers and see how quickly you come out screaming and realizing how cruel their agendas are and how inflexible they are from a situation where they think they have all the cards.

RP II

I know that he has many people that are trying to do it at all levels, intelligence, political, commercial both in usa & iran. 

Every now and then RP gets a little show going, but can't do it every few years as the deal is he does nothing active in return for his life.  I remember around 1990 we saw 15,000 iranians randomly, as if coincidentally celebrate now rooz at imperial college. 

Celebrating the Shah, against the regime. It was done without informing any power up front and later with opposition of the establishment in the UK.  Shows of power are not intelligent when you have to ask forgiveness later on and they are against it.  The good offer he has.  Lack of organization is because its not wanted. People go missing for that.

Amirparviz

I realize what the Americans are doing right now. That is why Iranian Americans  must organize and influence it. How about RP taking a lead here? I am one person but  do what I am able to. 

USA is not going to change but itself specially when no Iranian leadership is shown. It is our job to get USA to "mend". I am very familiar with American thinking believe me. They want money.

One thing  about them is they are more open to changing their minds. But we first need a credible organization and a good offer. Right now we have neither. I have said many times we need a "Government in Exile". Then go from there is RP up to it.