www.facebook.com/iransecularii

گازاشک آور

توی خبرهای ورزشی در مورد پرسپولیس این خبر را خواندم:«3 هزار هوادار در تمرين امروز حضور داشتند كه در ابتداي بازي به دليل شلوغي در هنگام بليت فروشي با گاز اشكآور از محل تمرين پراكنده شدند و سپس بعد از مدت كوتاهي مجددا به ورزشگاه آمدند. » می بینید ظاهرا گازاشک آوری تبدیل به وسیله ای عادی شده شاید چندوقت دیگه در زمینه راهنمایی و رانندگی هم استفاده بشه

Kahrizak camp

Kahrizak camp was originally built to detain Iraqi PoWs. It was then used as a training centre for the Lebanese/Iraqi militia. A lot of the protesters taken there were tortured savagely by these Arabs. But the reason it is closed down appears because of a menangitus outbreak which has also killed at least one of the Arab militias there. Because of the outbreak even the guards were scared to return there.

Thank you for the new article / dead protester

about Khamenei and the Guards..Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice...well I promised David I wouldn't go there again here, but I will definitely read it over again carefully.

_____________-

When did this protester die? Why hasn't there been anything about him here?

PS Okay. The protester died on June 15, he was one of the earliest ones. It seems the pictures are just going around now and have not been picked up by Huffington Post or any of the regular press.

It saddens me to put up more

It saddens me to put up more and more pictures of our fallen heroes, but they must not be forgotten. The criminals who took their lives must not be forgotten either, nor the collaborators and those who remained silent.

Martyr Hossein Akhtar Zand (32 Years Old)

What kind of beasts did this to you Hossein? What coward can see what they have done to you and remain silent Hossein?
//azarmehr.blogspot.com/2009/07/faces-of-our-fallen-heroes.html

  Showdown between

Showdown between Khamenei and IRGC?

//tehranbureau.com/looming-confrontation-khamenei-irgc/

You guys are all wrong

Ahmadinejad will not leave:
1- how is the regime going to say that a person with 65% of the votes is taken out?
2-How would this at all benefit the system? They just look desperate and confused.
3-What can you do next? zilch. there is no next step available. so we got Ahmadinejad for another four years.

Here's an idea for a Horrorwood film script for you, David

When I fisaw the photo of Ahmadinejad when they announced he'd won with this landslide, it was a couple of weeks after the elections, he looked like he felt himself raditiating the divine light again, and I wondered for a minute if he even knew there had been a coup.

Just an idea for a Horrorwood film script.

ABC News

Hardline group sends Ahmadinejad letter saying Mashaei's new post is 'contrary to the will of the people...& the call of religious leaders'

also

official state media counts from Monday the 140 detainees released yesterday still leaves 160 in jail amid reports of abuse 

Again

dictator governments do not do a U-turn unless there is something in it for them.

Rosie

I am going to borrow a phrase from OB1 from Star wars  

When it comes to Mullahs  

"...do not underestimate the power of the dark side." 

By the way the poll result on Daily Kos are interesting so far:

Poll

Will Ahmadinejad remain as president of Iran for four more years?

No

Total votes: 66 

David / Ostaad

 Well, David, you are on a roll here. I need to clarify.

By constitution and in action Khamenei remains as the heart of the regime's organs such as presidency, revolutionary Guards and basij. 

Absolutely. And by Constitution he should be the HEAD of. But in action, as we know, and as you and I have discussed, dog is wagging tail is wagging dog, etc.

In my view it is also best that the movement remain simple , to the point and free from complicated theories and side shows ! 

Well, it depends on which aspect of the movement you are referring to. I think your purpose in this blog and thread is to give direct and focus to the movement, in terms of specific goals and actions that are attainable, along with clear delineations, even you might say slogans to encapulate these goals.In this sense what you say is true. Yes, keep it simple.

____________________-

At the same time in the more nuanced discussions necessary elsewhere, t is hardly a theory that the Guards now function as a corporation owning huge chunks of the country, have infiltrated the Majlis with their own, and have a lot of power over what Khamenei does. When I said that Khamenei should not be mentioned without mentioning the Guards, I meant those types of discussions.

For the goals of this blog, yes, okay, keep it simple. As I said the other day on the 'Left' thread, you are excellent at synthesizing things in simple words that capture the essence and inspire people

But as far as more nuanced discussions go, But I'll just say once more that Ostaad is right, that this military-industrial complex being built up by the Guards is quintessential. Also this fully justifies the use of the 'f' word-Fascism in sensu strictu. When the government, military and the corporate sector begin to function as one, that is a huge part of the core definition of Fascism.

A Fascistic government is not necessarily more repressive than any other totalitarian one. But it's an ugly word and NO ONE wants to be associated with it. Now they can't worm their way out of it. It is what it is, and I have seen them (made them) squirm. Velayate Sepaah = Fascism. Much harder to prettify that term than 'theocracy'.

Okay, enough said for now. Let's keep things simple here.

____________________

Ostaad, book! hahaha I am aaaalmost juuust about ready to venture an article! But if YOU write the book I will gladly edit it for you. (If I do write an article, YOU will have to edit it anyway..lol

Please do use whatever terminology I put out there. That's why I do it.  I have more: Fascist in petticoats, hard apologist vs. soft apologist, Netocrite, etc.  Feel free.

lol

Rosie

By constitution and in action Khamenei remains as the heart of the regime's organs such as presidency, revolutionary Guards and basij. 

It is best to point at the heart which is pumping blood through the organs of the regime! 

In my view it is also best that the movement remain simple , to the point and free from complicated theories and side shows ! 

Imam 12

Mahmood wants to change his name to Mehdi. Felfel nabin che rizeh...

BEWARE: Coming soon -Khamenei THE IRI BLOB ... ;0)

New Version of Islamic Democracy in Your Theaters This Summer ...

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=sixDADVVnxA&feature=related

Good one girlfriend,

Velayate Sepaah! Can I use it? I'm sure one day a lot of people will be talking about just that.

Hey, I'm not a social scientist, but I see a book there. Wanna get started??? Wanna, wanna?

Battle for the soul of Iran

Abarmard

I don't think I can agree with your absolutism.  :-)  But I do see your point.  I just think you're making it a black or white issue.   And let me clarify something... I assume you're talking about comments referring to the mullahs?  And you sorta kinda danced around my question.  Do you trust the mullahs?  :-)

As for the rest, this is just nit picking.  I think anyone would agree that "something" is better than "nothing".  But this movement really has gone far past the fraud issue.  Our hamvatans are not "asking" for more, they are "demanding" more.  AN was responsible for a mere portion of the dissatisfaction. The more crucial issues are controlled by the cleric.  So getting rid of AN is really just giving the people a little sugar. 

I think that we should be wary of every single bit of news that comes out of Iran.  I think we should be wary of every single word from the mullahs mouth.  I think we should be wary of every single edict issued.  I think now is the time to be wary of EVERYTHING. 

Hopeful yes, but absolutely awareness of EVERYTHING.

Poll

You can also participate in this poll if you wish:

Will Ahmadinejad remain as president of Iran for four more years? (Yes/No)

//www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/28/151123/494?new=true 

We win

Iranians will win.

I voted for Ahmadinejad just because I didnot believe Mousavi. I believe that he is trying to bring Khomaini style system back, while Ahmadinejad is much more forward.

The problem is not one person or one group. In every level, there is so much dis organization that no one knows what's going on. So some people here who don't have a clue, just talk none sense about Iran and the current situation. I tell you this, idiots who killed and hurt the people will pay dearly. This is not to say that the entire system, reformists or conservatives are at fault here. 

I don't want a revolution. What I want is to have security, money and peace of mind. This is what's going to happen:

The Islamic Republic would have two official parties and begins the path to true democracy. We are earning that and will only add to it.

David ET, thanks, you are very nice. I still think that many of Iranians should visit Iran to get out of their non-Iranian thinking process. Amen.

more news coming out

Fundamentalist MP says parliament is considering a vote of incompetence for Ahmadinejad: //salaamnews.ir/ShowNews.php?8119

Abarmard: there is no doubt that this will be a retreat by the regime SOLELY because of people's movement but the question is at least will those responsible for the coup and bloodshed be held responsible ? This regime is good at sacrificing its goats through the past 30 years (e.g.: Banisadr, Ghotbzadeh, Yazdi, all the way to the current reformists) in order to maintain itself. 

We can not just jump at any piece of meat they throw at us and live happily ever after. This is not about absolutism nor revolution but it is about violations of people's basic human and civil rights and murders and injuries.

Khamenei is directly responsible for the death of Neda's and Sohrab's and ...and..... with his fatwas approving repression and not even once saying a word about those who were beating and killing people in the streets in plain clothes and who released their leash (himself).

This closure of one prison is just an attempt to distract from real issue and TO SAVE FACE as if the problem was in Kahrizak and not other prisons or imprisonments in general.  Secondly most of the released are freed on very large bails and can be taken anytime. (eg: Mostafaei: 100,000 USD, Shadi Sadr 50,000 USD )

Indeed this will be and is a retreat but the answer to watch for is: What will come out of it. Ahmadinejad is only the product and implementer. Sacrificing (Khamenei and regime's) puppet presidents has not achieved anything in the past 30 years.

Khamenei is the head of all forces and therefore DIRECTLY responsible for all the bloodshed and he must be brought to justice and that should be the minimum demand .

I repeat:

Khamenei is the head of all forces and therefore DIRECTLY responsible for all the bloodshed and he must be brought to justice and that should be the minimum demand ..

Khamenei is the head of all forces and therefore DIRECTLY responsible for all the bloodshed and he must be brought to justice and that should be the minimum demand .

If bunch of Grand Ayatollahs are considering moving to Najaf is not necessarily because they opposed all this but that they are afraid of the day that they will have to answer in courts to Iranian people.

To put it in politically correct words: Az tarse &^%neshoone! 

fozolie

?

Read carefully before your emotions take the best of you.

Ostaad is right,

It isn't a good idea to talk about Khamenei anymore without talking about Jaffary and the gang. They have plenty of power over him.

Two more articles, one I posted, one from Kadivar in the comment section:

//iranian.com/main/news/2009/07/23/irans-guards-keep-marching

I called it Velayate Sepaah (the Guardianship of the Guards).

Not to say it is a surprise to anyone here, but I am talking about a question of language.

what's bad about it?

Are you serious? I tell you what is bad about it, the blood spilt. Furthermore It's bad because they will never allow proper recourse to the law.  If you want to fool yourself feel free but please don't insult our intelligence.

Mr. Fozolie

che khabar e

This kind of thinking, black and white, has been our biggest hill to overcome. What you say is exactly similar to what an American would say in regard to your nationality as :Iranians are all terrorist.

Think about it.

Here is what I am referring to:

"Iranians should be wary of the behind the scene "save the face" manuevers that are in the works. "

Why?

Why be wary? If behind the "scenes", the system does what people have been asking for, then what's bad about it? This is a victory for the people.

As I mentioned, if you are thinking beware because we need to continue our revolution and don't stop here, then I said, people are not stupid. Nothing to worry here. I believe that would be a great victory for the people and more positive would come out of it. Nothing to be wary about.

well then,

aren't we saying the same thing then?  Dumping AN is nothing more than a band aid, that immediate satisfaction you mention, without any real or meaningful indication of a solution to the more important issues. Nothing is absolute... of course you are right.  But we're not talking absolutes here.  And DK is merely expressing the same frustration and lack of trust that we all feel.  Surely you're not suggesting that the mullahs can be trusted, are you? :-)

che khabar e

Well I don't agree with absolutes. DK saying that he doesn't believe anything that Mullahs do, I don't follow that thought process.

Within any camp one must see what they say and do, period. That's a civil way of dealing with any matters.

Ahmadinejad changing would only result to about 80% satisfaction, which is immediate but not long term. What follows matters.

It's important to recognize the moves based on people's pressure as one stage victory rather than a warning sign. People are not stupid.

Abarmard

I think David put it pretty clearly.  Dumping AN is merely saving face for Khamenei who really has the real power.  It might "seem" like it is a victory for the people but in reality it's just a change in the facade.  What would really change in the regime?  Not much.  I agree with DK... I don't trust ANYTHING the mullahs are doing right now.  Ostaad also said it very well.  Something very interesting to watch in the coming months.  I'm trying to remain optimistic.  :-)

Reposting Greenlife's

Reposting Greenlife's comment from another thread:

Khamenei orders the notorious Kahzirak camp detention centre closed. This is a victory for the Green Movement but closing a detention centre and moving the torturers to another location is just cosmetics. The crimes against humanity committed in Kahzirak is beyond description.

This camp was under the direct supervision of "Beite Rahbari" (Office of Leader) and Mojtaba Khamenei, Zolnour and Hossein Taeb orchestrated the torture and killing of the protesters in this camp. Khamenei is directly responsible!

The order comes after the torturers in the camp killed the son of a prominent official close to the establishment who was a supporter of one of the candidates(Rezaei).

There are many more detention centres in addition to the ones that are well known. Some are operated by the IRGC "Protection", some by Judiciary "Protection", some by Basij and "Beite Rahbari" and yet others by IRI intelligence and police which are all engaged in the mistreatment of dissidents."

//www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/27/iran-uprising-blogging-mo_n_245229.html

Why wouldn't you translate

Dumping Ahmadinejad, if it happens, as a victory for people?

Regardless if you think it's saving Khamenei, the fact remains that if Khamenei and his gang realize that they must be responsive to people's demands, then it is the people who have gained.

In case of a revolution, once people have the necessary tools, similar to this uprising, they will rise up (or continue). Regardless, any backing off from this system translates to win for people.

sudden positive shifts

Several state-owned media outlets, mainly Ansar News, IRIB, PressTV and Keyhan have recently started to criticize Ahmadinejad rather harshly. 

Sacked Intelligence Minister Ejaie has sent a letter to Khamenei criticizing Ahmadinejad rather harshly. 

MP Hamid Reza Katouzian has stated that Mohsen Rohulamini’s only fault was to Ahmadinejad and called the killing of dissidents by the government ugly and shameful. This is while another MP Ali Motaher – who has sided with reformists in the past weeks – asked Iran’s judiciary to give up the name of Mohsen’s killer

Resignation letter of the Minister of Culture has been rejected by Ahmadinejad. 

Besides Intelligence Minister Ejaie, as many as 20 high-ranking officials from that ministry have been sacked 

Mohsen Rezaie thanked judiciary chief Ayatollah Hashemi-Shahroudi for ordering a quick review of the cases of the detainees of the post-vote unrest in Iran 

Several prominent Shi’ite clerics are going to make a decision about leaving Iran and settling in Najaf, Iraq. It is expected that the final decision will be made within days.

Shahroudi's 1-week deadline to make a decision on the prisoners.

Head of the investigation organization ordered to report on the detainees & detention centres to head of judiciary.  

Khamenei ordered Kahrizak detention center to be closed

140 prisoners released today. Shadi Sadr is released.

Hashemi Rafsanjani stated in a meeting with faculty members of a university in Tehran denied there was a power struggle in the nation

Ayatollah Montazeri has released a statement that expresses concern over the current state of affairs. He also applauded the efforts made by various people to resolve the current state of turmoil. It has been also confirmed that Ayatollah Montazeri has met with Ayatollah Mousavi Ardabeli and Ayatollah Shabiri Zanjani 

Karoubi: We must try to keep the Islamic Republic.