www.facebook.com/iransecularii

For continuation of this discussion visit:

//iranian.com/main/blog/david-et-18

To Zanboor's et al coming out of the woodwork

You are the one who need to get your facts straight !

I never attributed to the "build-up" nor promoted unrealistic expectations and this document is a proof to that!

I started working on it 1.5 years ago and that is much before the stolen election and before there existed a "green" or mass protests. In fact this document has been an effort to educate and to show that we must first know what we want and then unite and organize around it and work toward the goal rather than unrealistic expectations that things somehow happen by themselves.

Before I even start preparing the constitution starting Nov 13, 2008 in "Solutions for Iran" series where I started to form the current preamble as the "principles of unity of all Iranians" I started it with these sentences:

1. BELIEVE in ourselves
2. UNITE based on the common principals that brings us together instead of distractions and exclusions that divide us
3. ORGANIZE

We still are missing #2 and #3 and I have repeatedly said that without having common and defined terms and without grassroots planning expecting Rafsanjani, Khatami and alike to somehow lead us anywhere is unrealistic.

Post election 8 months ago on June 2009 (and after the regime took guns against people in an article titled "Iran at a crossroad" I warned "any more encouragement of unarmed Iranians to face the armed forces of Islamic regime will only result in unnecessary bloodshed without any specific gains. At this stage anymore such calls without strategic planning are nothing but adventurism that result in unnecessary crackdown, arrests, injuries and deaths. "

In fact if you read even the two first paragraphs of this document it starts with "... as the consequence of lack of such organization and leadership, one more time allow our nation to face future set-backs. ....Without such visions, discussions, joint interactions and group formations it is nearly impossible to anticipate any effective path that can lead to a lasting, democratic and secular alternative."

So you need to get your facts straight before including me in the "you guys"!

As for people of Iran, onec again yesterday they won . It was proven to everyone that the Regime with all its Might and pre-planning had to go through so much to even make a bused , well fed gathering and still those who had nothing took the headlines!

I also salute those who went oustide tehran and "shomal" as a sign that they do not wish to participate in the regime  "show" . I personally would have prefered that there was a call for everyone to leave major cities and have a pic-nic instead and let the thugs have "their day".

zanboor_ghavi_mannyslawyer

Yeah, I tried to talk some reason into these poor deluded folks, but my efforts were not appreciated.

Anyway, in and for itself, maybe they found the exercise intellectually and emotionally stimulating. 

But I sure hope they didn't spend any serious money on this pipe dream- like they were saying they would. That would be most unfortunate. 

dAVID ET- give it up dude

after the buildup that you folks did for yourself here on ir.com, i think many people feel a hugh letdown by what transpired today- no sign of opposition

i heard it 20 years ago when bush was president.  a serious cia study suggested iranian regime would last 50 years- and i believe that

anyhow, for all the anonymous folks out there, they can still travel to Iran , i guess.  People like DAVID ET-

others who have come out in public- they are in deep deep depression tonight

i never thought that regime change should be the goal rather a replacemnt for khamenie.  but you guys pushed yourslefs too far and now you have to deal with the meltdown

wish you the best... take some anti-histamines they are good sleeping pills

dAVID ET- give it up dude

after the buildup that you folks did for yourself here on ir.com, i think many people feel a hugh letdown by what transpired today- no sign of opposition

i heard it 20 years ago when bush was president.  a serious cia study suggested iranian regime would last 50 years- and i believe that

anyhow, for all the anonymous folks out there, they can still travel to Iran , i guess.  People like DAVID ET-

others who have come out in public- they are in deep deep depression tonight

i never thought that regime change should be the goal rather a replacemnt for khamenie.  but you guys pushed yourslefs too far and now you have to deal with the meltdown

wish you the best... take some anti-histamines they are good sleeping pills

Your internet posts and emails can be as simple as:

 لطفآ پخش کنید Please Distribute 

    فارسی             English      

Is this Kosher ?

I will have one to go with extra hot sauce.

Plea for unity

Dear friends,

I am an Iranian. My father is from one minority and my mother is from another one. They are both Iranian. I know this because I have known them all my life! I also know in  my heart I am Iranian. We need to emphasize what unites us over division. If we don't we are ripe for picking by foreign powers. 

This is specially important in these dangerous days. When the IRR goes all h**l is going to break loose. To deal with it we must be united. Please let us put aside our differences. The constitution guarantees rights of every Iranian: ethnic minorities; women; religions . How many times does it have to repeat itself? If we believe it then saying it once is good enough. If we don't believe it then repeating it 100 times does no good. David has pointed out the exact wording what more do we need.

I know that IRR has abused many minorities. But that is to be changed soon. The important thing is that the constitution is implemented not how many times it repeats itself. 

tabar - I know where you are coming from - I am a minority too

As a minority myself, I understand your concerns.  However, inherent to the implementation of the human rights declaration, which is partly in the summary we sent out, is the fact that everyone, no matter what race, religion and gender will be respected as a full-fledged Iranian.

 *برابری کامل در مقابل قانون برابر و در چهار چوب قانون اساسی‌. بیگناه شمرده شدن تا اثبات جرم. غیر قانونی‌ بودن زندانی کردن به جرمهای عقیدتی، سیاسی، و وجدانی
 *برابری امکانات و حقوق اجتماعی و قانونی‌
 *برابری کامل جنسیتی در مقابل قانون و بدون استثنا
 *تضمین حقوق قانونی‌ و مدنی تمام شهروندان از نظر انسانی‌، سیاسی، اقتصادی، مذهبی‌، اجتماعی و فرهنگی‌، در چهار چوب  قانون اساسی‌ 

You are welcome to refer to the full preamble which clearly states the implementation of the human rights and David's answers which have the minority equality elements that he highlighted.  I do not even think that David would mind if you included the word "hammey-e aghallyat-haa" within the equality phrases above that you send out.

deleted

Need suggestions and help in distributions

Here are some of the things I have done (or doing) on my part so far. Your distribution and also suggestions to others are greatly appreciated.

Emailing to a powerful email list within and outside Iran that has been used by Stop Child Executions etc...

Posted on facebook , twitter, blog and website of iransecular.org

posted on iranian.com, iic and suggested it to persian2english.com

[If you have a large network on facebook, twitter and alike please join iransecular to expand the networking capacity)  

[If you know of major Iranian websites especially those in Persian please email to them]

{make suggestion]

Tabar

Let's discuss this in near future when I post the whole Persian Constitution here in Iranian.com. (Last piece was sent to me today which is on iransecular.org). Let's stay focused on the present task on hand and I look forward to diccussing this in more detail later. Thanks for all your valuable contributions :-)

Dear David

Edit: I just saw your post that it's in the viral statement. I don't know, I still think it should be a seperate point as it's pretty important but it's not a big deal. Not sure how to delete posts but never mind :D

Tabar

It is in the Viral Distribution above.

12. Full guarantee and legal protection of all human, political, economic, social, religious and cultural rights within the scopes of the constitution.

Dear Tabar

I have listed the references to multi-culturalism and local decision making within Iran in various areas as follows, not to mention that all articles of the constitution applies to all Iranians and it makes no distinction among us. Let's also not forget that everyone in Iran has been the victim of IR regardless of where they live. Otherwise considering that this is intended to be an interim constitution immediately after the fall of IR and vacuum of power and until a final one is constructed with all other necessary considerations; I believe the references will suffice. .BTW: I am 1/2 Azari myself.

Please also note that environment was not in the initial drafts and it was later suggested by readers and in fact without caring for our environment -which actually we Iranians have 1000's of years of history and culture of respecting the nature and environment- noone will exist and what is most important for everyone is to have a healthy and clean environment and especially for our children and future generations and having this in the Preamble sets a precedence in the world for the care of us Iranians for nature which is even clear in our calender and celebrations such as Norooz, Mehregan etc... and makes our constitution progressive. 

However if you have other suggestions please specifically  state: Where, what wording etc , otherwise considering the intent of the interim constitution the issue is covered.

Cheers

Introduction:

Here are some areas that the resulting constitution may lack or need improvement: Although the following secular constitution provides means for election of provincial councils and governors, however it does come short of determination of internal affairs of each province. The secular constitution same as prior two constitutions does not address potential Federalism which will need to be discussed in future and if necessary put in to provincial referendums.

Preamble- Territorial Integrity

Territorial Integrity. We are one nation comprised of different regions, religions, cultures and languages. We proudly believe in and defend the territorial integrity of our ancient country Iran. Our government of the people shall not compromise the territorial integrity of our country.

Chapter I - General Principles - Article 2.

12. Full guarantee and legal protection of all human, political, economic, social, religious and cultural rights within the scopes of the constitution.

Article 8.The participation of the entire people in determining their political, economic, social, and cultural destiny

Article 9. Equal social and legal rights and opportunity for all Iranians

Article 5. The Provincial Councils, the City, Region, District, and Village Councils and the likes of them - are the decision-making and administrative organs of the country. The nature of each of these councils, together with the manner of their formation, their jurisdiction, and scope of their duties and functions, is determined by the Constitution and laws derived from it.

Chapter II - Languages etc

Article 11. The official language and script of Iran is Persian. Official documents, correspondence, and texts, as well as text-books, must be in this language and script with the goal of minimizing the use of foreign words including Arabic. In addition to Persian, the right to use regional and tribal languages in the press and mass media, as well as teaching of their literature in schools shall be allowed and protected

Chapter III- Rights of People

Article 14. All the people of Iran, whatever ethnic group,  culture or tribe to which they belong, enjoy equal rights. Color, race, language, religion, culture, gender, sexual preference and the alike, do not bestow any privilege or lack of. (I just added culture in two areas)

Article 15. All citizens of the country, both men and women, equally enjoy the protection of the law and equally enjoy all human, political, economic, social, religious and cultural rights within the scopes of the constitution.

MM

I am not saying ethnic rights are not in the constitution - in fact those are the same as the constitution we have now in power in Iran.

What I am saying is if you want our attention you should put that in the Preamble and viral distribution, otherwise we won't look at it. Imagine how ridiculous this would be without womens rights mentioned. Now you know how we feel when we're ignored.

Tabar - this message is for viral distribution

The above short message is meant for viral distribution (Tweets, Facebook, emails) in the coming weeks.

I copied the following exerpts from the full 4th draft which is on my desktop now.

Territorial Integrity

We are one nation comprised of different regions, religions, cultures and languages. We proudly believe in and defend the territorial integrity of our ancient country Iran. Our government of the people shall not compromise the territorial integrity of our country.

Chapter III

The Rights of the People

Article 14

Article 15

On the website

//iransecular.org/English.aspx

again there is no mention of the fact that we are composed of different cultures and nations, except under "Territorial Integrity" and Number 12. While I appreciate that you put in #12 I really again do not see how Environment deserves its own paragraph in Preamble and yet the huge fact that we're not a nation-state is ignored. I hate to be rude and repetitive but again you're really not going to gain much support from 50% of Iran's population. This isn't something minor you can just brush off, this is a big deal for non-Persians and if you want a revolution - heck, if you want your territorial integrity to remain intact, you're going to have to include this as one of the biggest factors in the constitution. Is 50% of Iran not enough to include? For some reason gender is, yet our nations aren't...

You may think it's not a big thing and I'm making a huge deal out of nothing but give this to Kurds, Arabs, Turks and see their reaction. They won't take a second look at it.

Ask your friend, cousin, activist In Iran to form a team

and actively distribute this across the country through their network. This is not task of one night or 22 Bahman or Charshanbesouri only. This regime will go. Maybe next week maybe next year. But it will go. 

We need to prepare the groundwork, education & information that helps the collective Iranian society from  falling for foreign or domestic enemies and conspiracies. Getting this information out puts everyone on the same page in terms of unified understanding and demands from the next government. Whatever that may be.