Towards Freedom

My favorite lawyer joke

A man who has just settled his lost divorce case by paying a hefty check to his lawyer, steps out his lawyer's office, goes to the nearest bar, orders a double whisky, gulps it down and bangs his fist on the bar shouting: Lawyers! They are all assholes! A drunkard sitting nearby says: Excuse me Sir, I took a big offense to what you said and I think an apology is in order. The divorced mans says: Oh, yeah, are you a lawyer? The drunk says: No I am an asshole! 

FR

lawyers!

Ah, Farah.  You have really opened up a can of worms.  I mean no personal disrespect to anyone who is in the legal profession, but... BUT... I have very little respect for most lawyers.  No, that doesn't really express my feelings.  I can't stand most lawyers...:-).    Talk about cash guzzlers.  They make out WHILE you're getting screwed. 

And I know I'm sounding a wee bit holier-than-though about doctors but I know how hard my brother worked... and still does.  And how more humanitarian he is than many other doctors.  He's an invasive cardiologist which means he's a preventive cardiologist.  I just can't express how much he DOES care about his patients... both physically and financially.  Is he the norm?  Maybe not.  I just remember the hard times... he was married and living in a shit hole while in med school... living off $400 a month.  A MONTH!  I remember a funny story which we repeat to this day.  He was too proud to come to a party or whatever empty handed... but he would bring the cheapest beer... I mean, shit no one ever heard of... and of course drink the good stuff...LOL.  Oh well, maybe you had to be there.  :-)

Kuroush... I actually think I've got a little socialist in me.  I wouldn't go the whole 9 yards but I'm of the opinion that a little socialism is a good thing. 

I agree that EE or CE are more critical thinkers.  But I don't think I'd agree that their studies are any more difficult.  My dad was a CE and I know quite a few EE.  The bottom line, as you said, is that there is no real comparison between the two.  Except to say that for the most part, a EE or a CE is never going to be in a position to save a life.

Engineers are a weird breed!  I'm working for naval architects/engineers so that observation is pretty direct.  And my nephew is going into nano-eng. so I can safely say my observations of him are pretty direct.  These people have no sense of humor!!!!!

But then again, neither do lawyers. And I worked with one of them for 8 years as well.  Not my cup of tea.

Thanks KouroshS

Now I am back on track. With respect to Anonymous fish I tend to agree with Kourosh's opinion about the Medics being cash sucking machines (may be not as much lawyers). But engineers, as far as i can say based on experiences from members of my own family are not money making machines unless they are high up in the executive chain.

Obama's health care plans, if they work, should be popular with the masses - one of the few things I can say to Obama's credit!

FR

Good Conversation

Farah

This whole thing began when Kaveh and I started talking about Obama's Health care plan and His general Tax policies...Socialism vs Capitalism kinda thing. he complained that he is already paying too much in taxes and that obama's plan for health care makes no sense, and i countered that one thing that it does, it curbs, or at least tries to curb doctors' potential for being cash-sucking machines.

Ananymous fish.

I have had another example of what PC said in my own family. He was not a software eng. he was an EE but i am not sure what branch of it or maybe it was a mixture of CE and EE. But i do know that he worked for some well-reputed companies and in the same situation that he described. The only thing that he did not do was to work and sleep in a Trailer:)

Anyhow. I am not at all disputing the amount of work and more specifically the time that goes into the completion of one's medical education. Keep in mind that getting a fellowship is optional, althought many doc's choose to take advantage of that option nowadays, but nevertheless it not a requirement to start a practice.

My theory is that, although engineers do not spend that much time getting their degrees, But the subjects that they cover are much more rigorous and requires more thinking and creating than Med students. With Medical guys it is more a matter of experiencing and seeing and observing procedures and basically following the instruction and reading and at times memorizing certain medical facts. You do not see them creating and having to work with complex methematical formulas.

 It is really hard and not even right to even begin to make such comparisons, But as one example we see the rate of Graduation in med schools in far higher than engineering colleges. It is only when it gets to the garduate and specialty level that med students begin to feel the heat a lot more than before. I think that it is rather the case that medical specialists follow more routine and proven-to-be-successful protocols for the treatment of their patients, and therefore get quicker results than engineers that have to go through much longer and technically-challenging steps to show that their Thesis or projects actually work. That is my impression.

And , There are not many 9-5 or even 9-6 buisnessess in any given field anymore. Nowadays anyone at any job may be asked to stay long after his shift would have been over, and work. Wether it is a huge company or a small buisness.

  Also, The God-complex is a shared quality between Both doctors and engineers and most anyone with a super sophisticated degree. Trust me, I have experienced it. 

LOL

first of all, Farah... you're just seeing a prime example of "derailing".  Virtually every blog ends up this way, ya know?  One word or sentence in a comment leads to another word or sentence and before you know it... voila... a new direction all together.  I think I was in on it from the beginning myself and couldn't really tell you when or where it got started branching off.  But it's always fun to see where it ends up!

PC.  mea culpa.  I don't think I even had software engineers in mind when I spoke. I can see where they might get emergency calls.  So I bow to your midnight servicing as well.  And add to it... screw all that!  I am working 9-5 for the first time in a long long LONG time and I am thoroughly enjoying it.  I simply can't imagine working a long night or weekend anymore.  I've done my bit for slave labor, thank you very much.  :-)

Hi guys, may I join in?

Excuse me but just wondered what's all this engineers vs doctors talk got to do with McCain vs Obama's approach to the current crisis in Iran? I am sure I can find out by reading all your previous comments but would you please give me a clue? In any case my take on medics vs engineers is that both of these two are highly trained technicians - in other words they do what they are trained to do and do not step into the unknown - that is where the researchers come in. These researchers are generally dedicated people to push the boundaries of science for the benefit of the doctors and engineers. Unjustly an average researcher is less paid, much less paid, than the average doctor and engineer in all countries of the world. I say unjustly because the latter two reap the fruits of the former group.

My two cents.   

FR

Heya fish...

And you tell me when an engineer was called out in the middle of the
night on call?  I don't know any who are on call nights or weekends...

You don't know many (any?) software engineers, I take it! Who do you think gets called when a "mission critical" application goes haywire in the middle of the night or on a holiday? Whover wrote the code that is most likely responsible does, most likely. And if they aren't available, then the next person on the list who might know what went wrong and be able to fix it. And while it is normally just money on the line (sometimes a LOT of money) that isn't always the case. Virtually every safety-critical piece of machinery in the modern world is controlled by softare and when that software malfunctions it can sometimes cost lives. Also, I don't know of any other industry where people are routinely expected to work such long hours. I worked at two companies where programmers were expected to work 80+ hours a week for extended periods, as a matter of routine. On one of those jobs, I was not only working 16 hours a day every day for months, I was doing it while living in a hotel room in a foreign country, and my "office" was in an unairconditioned trailer on a construction site, during the summer.

I won't argue with you about the educational requirements or about the amount of commitment required to get an MD, though. You are absolutely right about that. In my field, a degree (of any kind) is not even a strict requirement. Bill Gates is a good example of that :)

Kourosh

I'm back in the game after a few days so I'm probably a little out of date.  But I wanted to go back and refer to some comments regarding doctors versus engineers and/or PHD's.  I personally think there is a world of difference between doctors and engineers.  I know many in both fields.  My nephew just got accepted at MIT but when compared to an all expenses paid scholarship to Georgia Tech and the $$ for MIT, my bro decided GT was good enough for him...:-).  His field is nano-engineering.  Until recently, I never even heard of this!  I also work for an engineering firm in HB... naval architect and egineering.  And I can assure you... while these guys are all top of the line and brilliant... they have NOT worked or studied as hard as my brother.  Not only the years in school... but afterwards.  Captain referred to undergraduate studies, medical school, residency and of course there is the fellowship studies.  My brother was almost 30 years old before he was done with his fellowship in cardiology and able to start practicing in private practice.  So the years alone are more intensive.  And you tell me when an engineer was called out in the middle of the night on call?  I don't know any who are on call nights or weekends... or have to trade holidays with partners to be able to spend time with family.  No... I can agree with you that the medical field in general can be greedy but believe me... it isn't a picnic either.  They don't lock the door at 6:00 and go to work at 9:00 am.  I'm not taking a thing away from any other profession but I do know first hand the life of a doctor.

But I agree about nurses.  My sister was an RN before she went into an executive position in a pharmacudical company.  Doctors for the most part treat nurses like shit.  That "god-complex"...lol.

Farhad... you mean calling someone a republican isn't an insult anymore?  Damn... it was my "go-to" retort to Kaveh.  :-) 

Temper temper, Captain!

Clam down my dear Yahya. So much anger is no good for your heart!

FR

Kashani

Sorry for delay in p!ss!ng on your Wheaties. Mibakhshi..... 

You do not have to be a republican to believe in stupid trash like Sean Hanity.

It takes an ignorant and illiterate little man like yourself to think that he and likes of his racist bunch are telling the truth, and have love of Iranians in mind.

Besides my little good for nothing ignorant Iranian hating friend, I am as much an IR supporter as you are AIPAC malijak. Get my drift little boy?  ;-)

-YT 

Some useful definitions ...

including Republic (my definition) and more ...

//iranian.com/main/blog/ari-siletz/excerp...

FR

Capt ayab,   I guess

Capt ayab,

I guess you’re one of those people who were banged in the head by our people’s uprising against your beloved IRI regime (yeah we all remember how you defended them), that’s why you’re spitting out gibberish.

First off, I’m not a Republican, but you are undoubtedly a misguided brainwashed lefty loony. Second, I don’t watch Hannity or Bill O, but let me tell you this, when Hannity says Islamists are dangerous and you on the other hand defend them , Hannity is right and you are wrong. When he says we need to confront Iran because the regime is a murderous one and you defend the regime on the other hand, Hannity is right and you are wrong. So, he gets it way more than you do. So, it is not them who did a “fine job making themselves look bad”, it is you and your like-minded anti American leftist loonies who supported a Fascist regime for so long and now are lost for words and “did a fine job” showing how out of touch and disconnected you are with the people of Iran and with reality.

Lastly, the days that you would demonize someone by calling him a “Republican” are gone. Left’s manipulation of media and public opinion is fading away. Republican Party just like the Democratic Party is made up of people with wide range of ideologies streaming from extremists to moderate to …..That’s a healthy thing, and also most Americans are moderates. The same thing is true with political parties in all democratic countries. The problem is that a few right wing Republicans tried to make themselves the spokesmen of the party, but they were never able to succeed. However, extremist left wings like antiwar.com and Jon Stewart and Noam Chomskys and moveon.org and Nancy Pelosi and others, have actually hijacked the Democratic Party, but that is changing also. So if anyone made itself look bad is the Democratic Party, not Republican Party.

Yes

Are you sure this is what you mean? I think you mean to say [without] instead of [with].

That's what I meant! Thanks! It came out the exact opposite of what I intended.

mc cain posturing

all this solidarity talk by mc cain and republicans is political posturing. in marketing terms, it's called product differentiation. as republican leaders are falling by the wayside one by one, the gop party is trying to set itself apart from the democrats in anyway that they can. come election time, all these republicans will be touting these empty words as credential to their bogus resume.

it's ironic that john mc cain who so many times threatened iran with military action, joked about bomb bomb iran, is talking about solidarity with the iranian people. we, as iranians know, that the iri government has used foreign interventions--whether the iran-iraq war, and supposed foreign spies and plots--many times to rally its people with nationalist slogans. any type of foreign threat puts on hold people's effort to effectively organize against the iri government. the whole nuclear issue and fomenting hostility with israel is all about this stale strategy that iri has used many times over. throughout the post-election riots, this totalitarian regime again has accused the western media and governments of organizing or 'misleading' the people to revolt.  now, one can see how mc cain's old strategy would have played right into the iri government's bloody hands.

not that mc cain was in cahoots with the iri government before. everything he said before and now was and is to win political points. the last election just showed how inept this man is. unbelievably after so many years in the government, he made some of the biggest gaffes one can make (palin and the economic fiasco for examples). i'm niether a democrat nor a republican and can be critical (or complimenting) of politicians in any party. however, this man, my friends, is a phony.

Kourosh

You're right, we're in this together. We just happen to view the problem and the solution differently (in some areas). And we could probably find three other people who see this three different ways than the two of us.

At least there's never a dull moment!

Kashani

Republican do not need character assassination to discredit them. They are doing a fine job themselves.

Just look who your leaders are: Rush the Druggie, Sean Hannity, Bill O, Michael Steele, Ann Colter, and Nutcase numero Uno Glen Beck.

Not to mention soon to be added, the quitter Grande, The one and the only Sara[The lipstick bulldog] Palin, who is yet to finish one contracted job.

-YT 

Ex Programmer

You noted[Nobody should ever be in that position in the US. There needs to be
some kind of "default" insurance, in my opinion. But I think we can do
that with nationalizing the whole industry.]

Are you sure this is what you mean? I think you mean to say [without] instead of [with].

In either case, nationalizing the industry, in my humble opinion is a bad move because it will practically eliminate the fierce competition which is necessary for this specific industry. Prime example is UK.

After decades of nationalized health system, ever since mid 90's they have been doing away with it. One of the reason was that applications for medical schools were dropping below dangerous level. That would have meant fewer and fewer doctors per population. Currently they do maintain a national basic health care system which is struggling through the hard economic times.

Nationalization of medical field is not the answer. The reform must take place in insurance industry, by reforming the cost structure, hand in hand with affordable, as you said [default] system to cover so many of the population who are without any coverage. Even employer sponsored health coverage is becoming out of reach for many employed people.

I do recall my first job during my grad school. For family of 2 my total monthly payroll deduction was a mere $45.00. And I am not talking about 19 century either. I am talking about early 80's. You tell me how much does it cost today !!!

To give you an idea, just to open the door to any ER and just to say hello will cost a patient close to $1,000. That is without getting any service. ;-)

Regards

-YT 

Republicans have taken much

Republicans have taken much tougher stances on dictatorial regimes such as Iran, Cuba and others. However, since today’s conflicts consist of few components and public opinion and relations being one of the most important of those components, Republicans didn’t get any help from global media in their agenda of confronting dictatorial regimes since global media has been hijacked by the Left, and the Left in order to character assassinate Republicans, and America in general, portrayed them as “extremists” and “Neo Cons” and “imperialists” and “Zionist” and things like that. Left’s manipulation on public opinion has resulted in disastrous consequences. The Jon Stewarts and moveon.org and Cindy Sheehan and Nancy Pelosi and Dennis Kucinich and antiwar.com and Noam Chomsky’s of the world, unfortunately, shape up public opinion.  So Republican’s hands were tied kind a sort a.

On the other hand, Democrats like to take tough stance on regimes such as Iran also, but our party has been hijacked by the Left wing as well. The self loathing “blame America” crowd now is the most vocal and active in our Democratic party. So Obama feels he can’t really be tough on Iran because that would mean a backlash against his administration by the nut jobs on the Left. Especially with so much other domestic issues going on that he can’t afford polarizing the Democratic Party or the political atmosphere in general.

So, bottom line is, Left need to marginalized and Left’s grip on power in the Democratic Party and global media need to fade away if we want to see democracy and human rights flourish around the world. Internet is our most effective tool to fight off Left’s manipulation of public opinion. We need to be active like them, and even more.

capt_ayhab

A plan must be put in place so everyone  can have affordable access to
at least basic medical services without having to go through
bankruptcy.

I agree with you about that. When I got out of the Marines I was working crappy jobs (with no insurance) and going to school, for a couple of years before I got decent enough job that I had an employer-provided insurance plan.It wasn't a nice feeling. Especially when I got in a traffic accient that was minor but the paramedics insisted I go to the hospital in an ambulance anyway.I got a buill for about $8000 a few days later and my bank account contained about $140 :o

Nobody should ever be in that position in the US. There needs to be some kind of "default" insurance, in my opinion. But I think we can do that with nationalizing the whole industry.

KouroshS Jan

Bare in mind that I am not arguing with you on the principles, which is GREED , being source of many financial voes in the world particularly the Wall Street.

With that said, the amount of work that a PhD candidate puts in is only fraction of what a MD , particularly during residency puts in. There is one major, BIG HUGE difference between a PhD candidate and a MD Resident. 

A MD deal with matters of life and death, where PhD student does not. As for the time frame, a PhD candidate spends 3-5 years after the undergrad schooling, compare that with 8-10 years for a MD. A PhD candidate concentrates in one subject as opposed to several for an MD.

The workload is no way the same, I should know this being a teacher by trade myself. Keep in mind sir that I am not playing down the huge amount of work and dedication PhD candidates put forth, but they by no mean spend more and work harder than doctors.

About the cost of malpractice insurance, I am only aware of what my son pays as premium. He is in a high risk category being an ER surgeon, along with OB-GYN's and neurosurgeons. Depending on the state's experience they fluctuate, but his premium is close to staggering $220,000/year. Keep in mind that he has not experienced any lawsuit as of yet[Ghooshe sheytoon kar], which increase the premium, just as it is for the auto insurance after an accident.

Regards

-YT 

McCain, does he give a crap?

Have MacCan hold any ralks like this for Uighurs in eastern China? I would guess that Iran is a way for getting American support these days. I wish American politicians did not play with Iranians and their lives as a way to win peoples votes.

Capitan jan

I am with you and i understand that there is so much hard work and so many "burning the midnight oil" hours involved. What i have always said and i am not saying this in a demeaning way, is that becoming a  physicianis something that one chooses to do for life and of course it should be an accepted fact that there will be sacrifices made along the way, in terms of lifestyles and so many other things. Withalll due respect for all the docs our there, engineers and Phd students put up the same amount of hours working on their various projects, if not more. I have seen many of my eng, buddies going through hell with their projects and the amount of time they spent on them . Point is that you want to become a professional you gonna have to do the time, no matter what profession you choose.

What percentage of their income goes to malpractice insurance, yet they are still able to support a rather above average lifestyle, 8 out of 10 times?:)

We are all in this thing together.

There is no such thing as being right or wrong in these lines of discussion kaveh. these are opinions and ideas that are being exchanged and their accuracy and how valuable are to the society will be determined over time. I did not mean to take this personally. I just said that to me it would not matter how you define my position, and you are free to label it as you wish. I just don't see how that qualifies as being taken personally! anyways.

I am not arguing against success in general. Of course you are free to meet all your potentials and reach the highest level of success that you possibly could. there is no question about that.

we have to think practically, You keep saying that bridging such a gap and making it fair for everyone is not going to take place by what seems to you as "pulling people down" so others can benefit.  Your problem, weakness is that you only observe the financial aspect of the issues. I don't see helping you improve financially, Had i been more successful than you as being penalized. I see that as sharing my good fortune with others and help them come up to the same level as i am. Or at least give them a chance. I think i have said this before to you, that although it may not seem that way, but the percentage of those who really would want for someone else to take care of their slack is not that hight, and most people really want to earn their own way to success and all they need is a start.  So i don't think a little sharing would hurt you or should create a disincetive for you to improve yourself. I see that as an excuse. Just when i noticed That employers threw a fit the moment The talk about paying the Universal Living wage of $10 per hour came up. It was all based on greed, and these were the employers who would not even provide their employees with minimum health coverage. Do you mean to tell me that many buisnesses in such a dire shape that they need to keep every single penny they make in profits, just so they would stay alive?

I just don't think your analogy of weak vs smart student makes any sense. Kaveh. A sharp student is always going to be sharp and will have his or her place reserved at one of the ivy league colleges in the country anytime in his life, if he is meant to be going to school at such an institution, or at any other reputable Univs. in the country.n what possible way would his talents be diminshed and his prospects will be threatened by other weaker pupils, no matter how hard the system tries to give the weak ones an advantage? Being successful in one's educational life is mainly a personal endeavor, regardless of how much help is available along the way, and if a student has true academic weaknesses no amount of masking that in preliminary years is going to stop such inabilities to show through in later years.

Look. I agree with you. Pour all the money you can into Job training programs. By all means. But noticethat you said "some" of these people tend to stay in these plans forever, Which means even you deeply agree with the fact that many others use that  to jumpstart their lives and become somebody. So that means the success rate is higher than you think it is.

I am sorry bro. But i don't see this as having turned into anything remotely close to a racial issue. You are just mixing a whole bunch of  things together and try to make sense out of this creation of your scared and afraid mind. I am not afraid., never was and never will be. I feel bad for those who are.  If anything, at least with this administration, all the race-oriented that could possibly stir a conflict and make them more obstinate!!!!(you think minorities are obstinate?) have been relieved, at least for the time being.

KouroshS

You noted[It is time to put these arrogant and greedy physicians in their place
and let them have it.  You know, I hate greedy people and those who make more than they deserver, going without supervision thinking that based on a million reasons they deserve it.]

Fundamentally I agree with you in regards to GREED. However allow me give you my own experience regarding Medical Doctors.

Up to 10 years or so ago I used to think exactly as you do in regards the hefty fees physicians charge. This changed dramatically when my own son got into the medical school. 

Granted that he got accepted to one of the best in the nation, which happens to be the most expensive[Tuition alone close to $100,000. annually - NO grants or scholarship available]. But what sets this profession apart from any other is the intensity and grueling regiment these doctors go through just in first 4 years[General Practice]. Of course in USA, one must have minimum of a BS degree to even apply to a medical school and sit for MCAT, which happens to be one of THE most difficult entrance exams ever.

In first 4 years these people spent a minimum of 14 - 18 hours in class and study, and trust me I am not exaggerating. Then comes the residency, which depending on your field is somewhere from 4 years to 10 years. It is only after 24 to 30 years of continuous schooling[From elementary to final residency] is that they start the actual practice. Of course I should say that during residency they are paid some measly salary which is just enough to sustain and start paying back the student loans they have accumulated. First year salary for residents starts with $45K per year which is standard all around the nation. However the amount of time they put during residency is so great that they end up making close to MINIMUM WAGE. As one of the commentators put it, it comes the malpractice insurance as soon as they start the practice. 

I have learned to hold great deal of respect for these youngsters, not only because my own son is a MD, but because I have witnessed how much resilience and hard work these people endure before starting to make a decent salary.

In my opinion, our problem with health care system is not the physicians, but the entire system. From red tape form paper work required for insurance companies, to administrative, and profit margin of the hospitals, to various tests[some totally unnecessary just to CYA].

There is also chronic shortage of registered nurses, as a result they are forced to have hours and hours of overtime which greatly increases the cost[Starting hourly rate for a RN is $24/hour.]

Then there are pharmaceutical companies and the way they are protected by limiting the import of cheaper medicine from Mexico and Canada.

As a nation, USA has THE best medical doctors, hospitals, apparatus, facilities and state of the art technology and methods. A plan must be put in place so everyone  can have affordable access to at least basic medical services without having to go through bankruptcy.

Regards

-YT 

No Kourosh, you're wrong again

And you also seem to be taking it personally. You seem comfortable with your ideology, so if that ideology happens to be socialist, then I don't understand why you would become agitated about the name. At least that's how it appears. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

The efforts you prefer to see taken to close the disparity gap involves pulling down those who are more successful in order to close the gap. This is where we fundamentally disagree.

If you are successful, and I'm less so, and that success is measured by income, you should not be penalized for your success in order to make up for my lack of success. Where would be my incentive for self-improvement?

Why would I bother to try and improve my own situation when I have someone like you to take care of my slack?

We see this every day in our society, In public schools, for example, students are now graded on a "curve" in order to close the disparity gap between the successful students and the ones who are just getting by. It diminishes the success of the pupil who studies and has mastered the curriculum while it masks the struggling or failing pupil's academic weaknesses. Self-improvement and success has taken a back seat to self-esteem.

We see this in the public assistance programs designed to lend temporary assistance during rough times, with some people staying in for years. Why? Again, there is no incentive for them to do anything else when it's easier to pick up a check. You, as a successful person, are funding my ability to stay home and do nothing. Instead of pouring money into a program that has been proven year after year after year to be a complete failure, divert some of that money into educational and job training programs so that they can go out and earn a living, rather than continuing to rely on you earning yours in order to for them to subsist.

But the Democrats don't want that. They say that it unfairly targets minorities. And that's bullshit. It's turned into a racial issue in order to stir up the emotions of the recipients of these benefits, making them even more obstinate than they are already. This mentality will only serve to maintain the disparity gap that you would like to see closed. I'd like to see it closed too, but not in a way that penalizes people.

I'm not trying to scare you, but if you are scared by the prospect that I mentioned, you're not alone. Many people are, knowing that if government were to get one foot in the door, they will continue to force their way in until the door is completely torn off its hinges.

If what I'm saying still leads you to conclude that I see only black or white and I am going to extremes, then I guess that's how it will remain.

MCCAIN HATES IRANIANS

Interesting how McCain tries to butter up his politics by taking a popular POV during a time of drama.
Lest we forget the REAL MCCAIN, just remember (or UTUBE it):

In 2008, less than 9 months ago, McCain laughed as he sang "BOMB, BOM, BOM,...BOM, BOM IRAN..." to the tune of an old American song

AND...EVEN WORSE...

He said he was "happy that Iranians like to smoke American cigarettes in Iran because that would be a faster way to kill them".

MCCAIN IS TOTAL EVIL TRASH.

Ananymous fish and Kaveh

Ananymous Fish

Yes. I agree. Point is well taken. But the arricle i was reaidng had its focus on Doctors and Their specific way of practice and how it is all gonna change and be based on a more restricted and conservative approach, which basicallyprevents them from charging unnecessarily. Obviously they are not happy at all and will give you all the reasons in the world as to why. But what is fair is fair.

Kaveh

Like i said before, I really don't care what name you pick to describe my ideology. Whatever makes you happy. Government Becomes a problem when it sticks its nose where it does not belong, not when it aptly and justifiably intervenes when such intervention is so desparately needed. the difference is so obvious. there is absolutely no reason to "resent" high income earners, and i for sure do not, but that does not mean that all efforts should not be made to close the disparity gap. I support all those efforts One can not Just learn how and what more income earning do so they can repeat that same process, They need to have the means and the tools in order to be able to put those learnings to use.

Are you try to scare me here kaveh? Let them take care of these ceo's and all these heavy hitters first. But i promise you that won't happen anytime soon given the make-up of our congress. That will be a long process. But if after they have done all that,  they want to come after me or those like me and cap our income, I think by that time i will be in the retirement age and could'nt really care less for what happens. I amgoing through the main and key productive and working years and neither republicans or democrats can easily achieve the goal of regulating their salaries and compensation. it will be a major, bumpy road.

It is not that you speak too soon, it is just that you speak based on fear and paranoia, thinking that the end of the world is upon us, Like when you talk about what excuses will there be. You have always had a black and white way of viewing  of issues in your mind and in this case and this case you have gone to the extremes.

Sorry Kourosh

Your ideology is pure socialism, and I am vehemently against it.

Government has always been the problem, it has never been the solution. That will never change. Of all people, we Iranians should know that better than anyone. Government was the problem in 1979, and it sure as hell is the problem today.

Wear a turban, wear a necktie, what's the difference?

And I have never resented anyone who earns a greater income. The energy that so many people expend today in their hatred and resentment of the higher income earners I find is better spent in learning what they do, how they do it, and how I can reach the level where they are. There used to be a time when success bred success.

Currently, success seems to breed only contempt.

If it is acceptable to you for the government to determine what is considered "just compensation" in the private sector, I hope you won't change your thoughts when after they get through with all of the CEOs and so-callled heavy hitters, they decide you are being overpaid. Because I guarantee you that if the government were to ever have this power, it will be a cold day in hell before they ever relinquish it.

If you think I am speaking too soon, then fine, we can defer this debate until a time you feel is reasonable in allowing what you consider to be a fairer assessment. 

Then we will see what the excuses will be.

just a little comment

It is time to put these arrogant and greedy physicians in their place and let them have it.

I think it bears noting at this point (and I hate to interrupt you cause you're really on a role and I for one am diggin' it) that this is a wee bit unfair.  I'm not denying that doctors make a lot of money because they do.  But I CAN assure you it's far less than you think.  Have you ANY idea of the malpractice insurance they have to pay?  There are less and less doctors in private practice because they simply cannot afford the insurance and equipment.  More and more are becoming affiliated with local hospitals.  And believe me... they do NOT want that.  Now I would never deny that there are doctors who do abuse the system but they are in the minority.  I say instead... look to that private sector that kaveh was talking about.  Assisted living homes... private hospitals... the frigging insurance companies and yes, the pharamacutical companies as well.  I spoke out against that subject awhile back but it's true that many are abusive.  Those guys are the culprits... not the individual doctors.  It is my opinion that nursing homes alone constitute the biggest ripoffs in the medical field. 

anyhoo... just wanted to make a comment on that.  :-)

Kaveh

As a matter of fact I did read a very interesting piece on TIME today and it was really down to the point and beautifully analyzed some of the most important aspects of  this plan and you know what? I loved it. It is time to put these arrogant and greedy physicians in their place and let them have it.  You know, I hate greedy people and those who make more than they deserver, going without supervision thinking that based on a million reasons they deserve it.

Tax everyone at  the same rate? LOL that is downright facsism and cruel. What makes sense is that if you want to make more money and be successful, then you will pay the price and pay back to the government and the society who make it possible for you to be in a position that you are. Plain and simple and no whining and moaning about it. I am supporting the fact that the individual who makes less should be entitled to keep more and have same level of access to the goods and services that as the more well-off person. If in your neck of the woods they call this socialism and you do not subscribe to it, well that is just too tough.

Kaveh. I am impressed by all that you know about the toxic presence of the Unions and how the money they were given were spent on so many things it should not have been, I even remember seeing it on the news on the first few weeks when this stimulus package was given to them. I don't even own a care at the time and  I don't plan on owning one anytime soon,  But Compare that to 100's and 1000's similar types of behavior and misspending committed by the CEO"S and CFO"S and other big shots in all those companies, all throughout their leading the company. all in the stupid and pathatic disguise of ensuring the profitability and viability of the compant. Profitability my ass. Do you think that they will give you the whole truth about every single decision that they make running their companies in their annual shareholders's report?  So they make their mistakes and they make their poo poo's and thenconveniently sweep them under the rug, Bernie madoff style. and then when it hits the fan, they ride their golden parachute out of the whole thing and leave the bad and evil government and the people who worked their asses off for them so they can realize their profitibility to carry the bags.

 "am hardly separated from my community. I hope you are right.

 And you cannot have contributions from all levels of society if some members are doing more than their fair share. What ever happend to the concepts of "fairness" and "equality? "

Which is exactly why i want to see more government involvement so as to make sure that all members are doing their fair share by having fair and nuanced access to all available oppurtunities in their community, Better education, better training and less time to spend worrying about earning peanuts for a misrable day to day existence.

The American Dreams Does belong to everyone and everyone MUST have the means to pursue it, be it provided by the government or for those luckier ones through the private sector.

Like it has been said before, obama can not be blamed for not being able carrying out the promises he made over the short span of time that he has been in power. That is just downright a very immature expectation, given that it took a few years to create the mess that now he is being put in charge of removing.

This is not Bush trashing, this is just the reality, it would have been trashing if all these charged were indeed in vain, whereas all of us know that they are not, including you.  No leader and president in the world can show you positive results in a matter of few months. So stop using that as an excuse.