Musings of a former chicken

Fred,

"If only Saddam and his sons Uday and Qusay were still ruling Iraq,
imagine how good things would be".

You imagine thing is enough for everyone. I thought we got in there because of the WMDs and 9/11 connection.

Lie doesn't know shame!

دور شو از برم ای واعظ و بیهوده مگوی

من نه آنم که دگر گوش به تزویر کنم

Javadagha

I will tell you very logically. The best thing for Iran is to give up Islam. It is to leave it and go to either nothing or if people need something then Zoroastrianism. Something that is not so backwards and does not promote stoning or view women as 1/2.

I do not give a damn about Israel unlike you. I am an Iranian and do not need your permission to be on this site. You sir are an Arab at heart both by name and by deed. So why don't you take your own advise. You Tazi still think you own the world. You are wrong. The only thing you own is all the losers. Why: because you and your backwards religion turn winners to losers. Iranians when free of Islam as in the Western diaspora or Parsis of India do very well. But under Islam that they suffer until it is overthrown.

VPK

Always talking about Airtight this, Airtight that,

hmmmm and likes to include the word rape into every description............

something is making me think.......hmmmm 

let's just say, I will censor myself

but a little question if I may, did you notice people around you saying things like "you not a man" after your roller coast ride......

Fact checking

Check Amir! Ask the Iraqis, if their voice counts. Better yet, read the latest polls from Iraq taken by the US government. The Iraq Center for Research and Strategic Studies and the Gulf Research Center conducted a poll recently. 90% of Iraqis think life was better under Saddam.

Provide the link to these polls. I'm interested to see them. I will provide links to another poll. The question (#8) reads: From today’s perspective and all things considered, was it absolutely right, somewhat right, somewhat wrong or absolutely wrong that U.S.-led coalition forces invaded Iraq in spring 2003? 

You can follow the link. The responses are nowhere near 90% saying "life was better under Saddam". As of Feb 2008, 65% of Shia and 87% of Kurds say that it was right for the U.S. to invade Iraq in Spring 2003. Remember that the Shia are about 60 of Iraq's population, and the Kurds are 15-20%. Also remember that the security situation in Iraq was quite a bit worse in 2008, so that would make Iraqis more negative towards the invasion. 

//abcnews.go.com/images/PollingUnit/1060a1IraqWhereThingsStand.pdf 

Do you wonder who sold

Do you wonder who sold Saddam the poison gas?

Companies in China, Europe, US, USSR, etc sold Iraq components for its chemical and biological weapons programs. Most of Iraq's conventional weapons were from the USSR and France--not much was from the US.

Or better yet, do you wonder who helped Saddam come to power in 1971?

You're getting your dates mixed up, but bottom line: Iraq was much closer to the USSR than to the US. It signed a friendship treaty with the USSR in 1972. It didn't normalize relations with the US until the 1980s, when they had a common enemy, i.e. Khomeini's IRI. 

"ggorg": Enough recycled gibberish

You are full of canned leftish claptrap like, "What Malcom X called "house negros" and Tariq Ali calls "house slaves" or "house Arabs" in case of the Arab world. I suppose, we have "house Persians" like you." Do you realize that Tariq Ali is a follower of Trotsky, a bloodthirsty goon responsible for horrendous massacres in the early USSR days?

"Leftish" anti-American fools and terrorists collaborating with Islamist anti-American terrorists got Iran into this miserable disastrous mess that it has been for 31 years. "Leftish" thugs killed tens of millions of people in the USSR and China. Of course, I'm aware that the U.S. has dirty hands. Who doesn't? The world of politics is a dirty one. I'm all for greater transparency and accountability in U.S. politics. The U.S. has committed crimes, and they need to be examined honestly and fairly. Where the U.S. has committed wrongs it needs to work to correct them. However, the alternatives to the U.S. are 10 times worse. Who are the members of the "anti-American" camp in the world today: North Korea, Syria, IRI, Zimbabwe, and Cuba--these are the heroic "independent" states you look to for inspiration? But of course, all this is just empty "leftish" claptrap on your part and the other fools who leave Islamist hellholes like the IRI to migrate to the U.S. (or elsewhere in the West), enjoy the freedoms and higher standards of living there and use Western inventions galore (cars, airplanes, computers, Internet, etc) to piss and moan endlessly about the perfidy and evils of the West--as if the "East" isn't 10 times worse. You think things are better in IRI, Syria, North Korea, and Cuba--those heroic "independent" countries? Fine, then go there and be a proud free man rather than a "house slave" in this country. You are recycling "leftish" claptrap that Iranian intellectuals in the 1960s and 1970s vomited up--at least the honest ones now have the decency to say "ghalat kardam". Can you say the same? I doubt it. You're too busy getting fat in the West to know how great you have it compared with Iranians who have to live under the yoke of medieval "akhoonds". They are 100 times more oppressed there than we are living in the U.S., you fool.

Equally, you and your pro-Western junta, have no interest in bringing democracy to Iran. 

Huh, what junta? Is the voice of Frantz Fanon ricocheting around in your head? 

If Iranians are to ever rise and take back their country, they ought to first rid themselves of house slaves.  

If and when that day comes, they ought to first make sure that the blind, anti-Western tripe vomited by the likes of Shariati and Al-e Ahmad--the same tripe you are regurgitating here--is disposed of for the mindless rubbish that it is. 

Cheers  :-)  Chakeretam, mokhlesetam, nokaretam. 

VPK why do you get emotional?

VPK why do you get emotional?  Why are you taking things personally?

If a country such as USA or Israel has down less crimes to her own people BUT more crimes to other contries, do you consider these countries better? Is this your logic?  Cannot you consider a bigger picture?  Bani adam poem comes to my mind.

Be honest and do the right things for our vatan.  If you consider yourself, an American, then leave this site and let those of us who care for Iran figure things out.  Thanks.

'You would sell Iran even cheaper than the mullahs'

Ggorgg jan that isn't the only thing they would sell.

Ggorgg

I am well aware of the responsibility of the West in all of this. I agree that Blair; Kissinger and so on are criminals. Blair in particular makes me really sick the lying bastard. At least Kissinger is honest about being evil.

No matter my question is simple. I do not believe the 90 % figure since no Kurd would say so. There are over 20% Kurds in Iraq. Assuming 100% of the rest of the population you still don't get 90%. So the poll is false. That is all I was saying.

I don't like these BS and biased polls. Just like the ones saying how popular IRI is. I also don't like these Western know-it-all assholes like Leverett and Mann. One day a warmonger next day an IRI shill but never honest.

The world is better off without all the propaganda BS. Don't you think.

Iraqis are better off

You may not believe this but under Saddam, the country would have collapsed to chaos sooner or later. At least the Iraqis have a chance to build a better country.

Veilled Prophet...

Do you wonder who sold Saddam the poison gas? Or who gave him and let him keep the helicopters used to massacre the Kurds? Or better yet, do you wonder who helped Saddam come to power in 1971?

After the first couple Baathist coups in Iraq, the CIA provided them with a list of some 400 Iraqis that they labelled as communists. In reality, they were Iraqi nationalists, teachers, professors, doctors...the creme of the crop of Iraqi society. They were executed in one night and the US government called it a cheaply won victory. At the time, Iraq's population was less than 10 million, but lets say 10 million for the sake of argument. Today, US population is 300 million. Now, if we take 12000 (400 x 30 = 12000) American intellectuals today and execute them, where do you think US will be forty years from now?

What these debates lack are the principle of universal equality and accountability. That's why Milosevich and Charles Taylor are tried for human rights violations, rightfully. But, Kissinger, Bush, Blair, etc. are being awarded this and that accolade for murdering far more!

Ggorgg

I wonder if the 90% include the Kurds? Somehow I don't think they like breathing poison gas.

In any event Saddam was a secular Nationalist. IRI is religious fanatical anti Iranian.

The last time I checked...

Check Amir! Ask the Iraqis, if their voice counts. Better yet, read the latest polls from Iraq taken by the US government. The Iraq Center for Research and Strategic Studies and the Gulf Research Center conducted a poll recently. 90% of Iraqis think life was better under Saddam.

AMIR1973

US terrorism!? You can check the reports of US government and compare it to the State Department's definition of terrorism. Of course, you would have to use your own brain measure up American activities against American definition of terrorism. US is an Athenian democracy, if that. Therefore, it's not terrorism if the US military bombs another country for any reason.

My standards are higher though. I believe in international standards. So, how about IOJ's 1984 case of Nicaragua vs. United States. Here is the docket and final ruling:

//www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?p1=3&p2=3&...

The court found US guilty and asked the US government to stop its activities. The State department was very proud of its cheap way of hitting "soft targets" in Nicaragua through the paramilitary that it was funding. "Soft targets" meant non-military, civilian targets by the State Departments definition: schools, farms, etc. And in defiance, the Reagan administration ordered and increase to funding of the paramilitary groups in Nicaragua, Honduras, and El Salvador. And as wrote below, how about 9/11/1973. Remember these are just two very obvious cases in recent history. You should search the web for pictures of American GIs water boarding Filipinos and posing for the camera on a mound of Filipino bodies. Maybe that'll convince you.

Somehow, I'm pretty sure that this is not proof for your ilk, AMIR. You represent the colonized, defeated mentality. What Malcom X called "house negros" and Tariq Ali calls "house slaves" or "house Arabs" in case of the Arab world. I suppose, we have "house Persians" like you. Very fitting definition for you. During slavery (another episode of terrorism), the slaves that lived in the mansion with the master would justify his cruelty louder than the master himself. They had a vested interest in picking the crumbs off the master's table and no interest in improving the lives of their compatriots in the fields.

Equally, you and your pro-Western junta, have no interest in bringing democracy to Iran. You probably watch CNN, BBC, VOA and the likes. Democracy and human rights are convenient excuses for you to attack IRI, otherwise you would be as upset and vocal when US violates the same principles on a daily basis around the globe. Fortunately for you and your masters, the IRI rulers are so ignorant and self-serving that they provide you with plenty of ammo also on a daily basis. If Iranians are to ever rise and take back their country, they ought to first rid themselves of house slaves. Because the house slaves are always ready to sell themselves and the rest of us to the highest bidder. You are the disease that has plagued my beautiful land for centuries! 

The last time I checked it

The last time I checked it and before they stop counting the number of Iraqis that would otherwise had lived under Saddam, was about 700,000 and still rising!   If only Saddam and his sons Uday and Qusay were still ruling Iraq, imagine how good things would be. Arabs kill other Arabs, and you want to put all the blame on the U.S.? They blow each other up in market places and mosques everyday; they cut off each other's heads and videotape it; they use power drills to torture each other to death and then dump the bodies in the Tigris River--who is to blame? Sheytan-e Bozorg, of course. Are they little children who can't take responsibility for their own actions? How pathetic the mind of a West-residing Islamist is. How pathetic.

By the way...

The last time I checked it and before they stop counting the number of Iraqis that would otherwise had lived under Saddam, was about 700,000 and still rising!

Fred,

I replied to your last comment to keep it as a reference for later.

You talk with such arrogance about the history which is so close to the hearts of the people of the region that it's like Israelis were running a pest control program.

So Ariel Sharon was just there to carry the DDT buckets! The only people you are fooling with your story is you and your goons! Keep your heads in the sand and expose your rear end that the kick is coming inshallah soon!

Midwesty,

We already know the crime of the whore, now who is going to cast the first stone? The owner of Abughraib and Guantanamo or the owner of Sabra and Shatila massacres? Which one?!

Sabra and Shatila massacres were carried out by the Lebanese Forces, Israel's Arab allies. Israel bore some responsibility, but most of the responsibility was with the Lebanese Forces, who were Arabs. In fact, there were far bloodier incidents during the Lebanese Civil War, e.g. the massacre at Tel al-Zaatar. Thousands of Palestinians were killed during the Lebanese Civil War during the so-called War of the Camps, when the Syrian army and its Lebanese Shia allies Amal pounded the camps with artillery for months. The Alawite Asad regime in Syria also killed an estimated 20,000 people in the city of Hama in 1982 when the Sunni fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood revolted against the Baathist government.

What was the number of Iraqis and others executed by the US at Abugharaib and Guantanamo? Now, please compare that to the number of Iranians killed by their own regime in the 1980s (it was between 15,000-20,000--to use a relatively conservative estimate).

Now, what were you saying? Cheers  :-)

Midwesty

If you have any honor do the right thing: Move!

Amir/Fred,

You finally figured it out. You are making a brand out of the name Fred. Sweet dreams!

We already know the crime of the whore, now who is going to cast the first stone? The owner of Abughraib and Guantanamo or the owner of Sabra and Shatila massacres? Which one?!

Midwesty

I do want to bet that the USA does not view us all the same way. They do not veiw a sane peaceful Iranian American the same as an Islamic radical. You and the other IRI supporters love to have us in the same boat as you. Maybe that is why your kind took hostages. So as to tarnish the name of all Iranians and force us into an alliance. Well not so lucky for you. I would never ally myself with your gang. The USA has enough sense and enough spying to know who is up to what. 

By supporting IRI and its criminal activity you have sealed your own fate. By living in the USA and actively working against it you betrayed your host. I had to swear to not work against America when they granted me citizenship. Are you a citizen or a resident? Did you swear the same thing? If so then you lied and that makes you a traitor to the US which gave you sanctuary. Maybe to Islamists lying comes natural. As it did to your Imam who lied through his teeth and was proud of it.

You are an embarrassment to all Iranians living in the USA. I denounce you and those like you. I would love to see the USA deport you to IRI. Serve you right.

Midwesty,

Thanks. "Debating" West-residing Islamists is always eye opening. Now, if we can convince Islamists to stop stoning women and chopping off limbs...Cheers  :-)

ggorgg

What would be credible evidence for you? You're going to get on this site and with a straight face suggest that CIA did not bankroll Bin Laden

The burden of proof is on those making claims. If you have credible evidence, pony up. Why is that so hard to understand?

But, what about US governments of kidnapping people from other countries? If the hostage crisis was terrorism in your view, then apply the same standard to US government behavior. In fact, take the US state departments definition of terrorism (found on line) and apply it to the US government. The conclusion is indisputable.

I'm willing to consider that as terrorism.

then US is the number one terrorist in the world.

Gibberish and nonsense. Based on what criteria? Violence against civilians? China killed tens of millions of people during Mao's "Great Leap Forward" and "Cultural Revolution". How about we consider China the world's biggest terrorist? Political repression? Not even close. Even Chomsky has called America one of the freest countries in the world (I believe he has called it "the freest").   

You seem to be absolutely fine with kidnapping, blowing up public places and murder, as long as its done by your masters in the West.

Other than the fact that you're lying and have nothing to back up your statement, this "masters in the West" bit is pro forma tripe of the variety that West-residing Islamists and "leftish" folks are good at barking--empty sloganeering and nothing more. Cheers  :-) 

Amir,

Hey Kiddo I appreciate my time not sure about you. Come back when you are serious.

Amir1973

What would be credible evidence for you? You're going to get on this site and with a straight face suggest that CIA did not bankroll Bin Laden!? If you ask for credible evidence to prove that, it means that nothing would be credible to you, not even US governments own reports and admissions on the issue. Or, you are not as informed on the topic as you think, in which case you should go and educate yourself.

Taking diplomats hostage was a serious violation of international law by IRI. No question about it. But, what about US governments of kidnapping people from other countries? If the hostage crisis was terrorism in your view, then apply the same standard to US government behavior. In fact, take the US state departments definition of terrorism (found on line) and apply it to the US government. The conclusion is indisputable. Short of saying what the West does is good and what everyone else does is bad, then US is the number one terrorist in the world.

You seem to be absolutely fine with kidnapping, blowing up public places and murder, as long as its done by your masters in the West. 

Cost-of-progress

You preach Iran first, but you either willfully or inadvertently put Iran last!!!

Iran first means treating Iran and Iranians at least equal to the rest of the world. All actions taken by US and its allies have first and foremost made life much more difficult for the average Iranian leaving in Iran. And the leadership of IRI have gone forward with their policies and life without much hinderance. It's an utter disgrace for any Iranian to get on the Western band wagon. Plus, the meaning of equality is missing here. Bush, Blair, and company invaded two other countries and murdered millions. Their crimes are whitewashed daily and they are praised. If US has the right to do what it has done for the past 10 years because of 9/11/2001, then does Chile have the right to carpet bomb US for 9/11/1973? Where is the equality?

Iranians point out the crimes committed by IRI against Iranians for the past 30 years. THEY SHOULD DO THAT AS LOUDLY AS THEY CAN. But if in the same breath they overlook the crimes committed by US for the past 200 years, especially those committed against Iran, they their criticism of IRI is intrinsically invalid.

There is a double-standard in the Iranian community. We think that our criminals are worse than Western criminals. We treat ourselves as second class to the West.

Just because IRI is despotic it doesn't mean that its stance is wrong always in face of Western pressure. In case of the nuclear program, US and EU are acting as bullies. The evidence speaks for itself, if you step out of the propaganda spewed out daily by ABCNNBCBSFox machine. 

Midwesty,

I don't get it, do you agree or not that we are all, regardless of our political taste, the same to the eyes of the western policy makers?

As citizens of the US or in terms of US foreign policy? I don't understand your question. 

Osama was on CIA payroll formally up to 1989

All sorts of allegations are made, which may be entirely true, partly true or not true. I asked for "credible evidence". If you want to take that "route", then we can talk about the fact that members of Bin Laden's family are currently in Iran.

The hostage situation technically wasn't a terrorist act

Are you kidding? Taking diplomats hostage and parading them on TV is not terrorism? Okay, sure.

It means they allegedly and based on their lopsided view see Iran as supporting terrorism (in this case the rightful right of Lebanese people to defend their country)

By kidnapping Westerners, blowing up U.S. and French embassies, and hijacking planes. Okay.

If you can't see this then I am highly doubtful of your Iranian heritage! Not that any Parsi speaking individual is called Iranian.

Yes, a true Iranian defends the regime that is the leading killer of Iranian men, women, and children; leaves Iran to move to the West; but continues to defend anti-Western terrorism both carried out directly and funded by this anti-Iranian regime. Good to know. Cheers  :-)

COP,

Not that simple dear! Nobody intentionally hates the West. Nobody can deny the problems that Iran is facing but what we differ at is how to solve the problems.

I can speak for myself and that doesn't count for anybody else. I gravely oppose any action from the outside. I believe Iranians inside Iran know it better. Even electing Ahmadinejad was in the spirit of battling the same problems that we are aware of and constantly complain about.

But the nature of Iranian politics is so complex that it is impossible to see it from outside. All these Iranian experts who don't know zilch about Iran are dominating the media and being employed by the policy makers to roll out their genius plans!

That's why I support people who advocate Iran-US relationship because I believe the lack of communication have had a destructive impact on US and Iran foreign policies targeting American and Iranian immediate interests.

The special interest groups in the US are blind-sighted by the revenge hence won't settle till see blood is shed! We must stop them!

Amir,

1- I don't get it, do you agree or not that we are all, regardless of our political taste, the same to the eyes of the western policy makers?

2- Mistake or not, as it's part of the public knowledge, Osama was on CIA payroll formally up to 1989 and informally through the Saudi prince/ US ambassador to the US days before 9/11.

3- The hostage situation technically wasn't a terrorist act, as you know the US State dept has designated Iran as a state Sponsors of terrorism. Please note the meaning of SPONSOR! It means they allegedly and based on their lopsided view see Iran as supporting terrorism (in this case the rightful right of Lebanese people to defend their country) not acting upon it.

Saying that there is more technicality involved in labeling people as terrorists than calling them sponsor of terror. The latter is much more political than technical.

If you can't see this then I am highly doubtful of your Iranian heritage! Not that any Parsi speaking individual is called Iranian.