Musings of a former chicken

GR

I only respond to the substantive part of your comment.

No, I did not say or imply that political Islam does not exist - that would have been ridiculous. What I said was,

(1) it is not just Islam that has a political side.

(2) If one talks about political Islam and condemns it, then the same person must also condemn political Christianity, Judaism, and Hinduism, all of which have had, and continue to have violent sides too, while at the same time Liberation Theology played the most important progressive role in fighting fascism and military dictatorships in Latin America (all of which supported, by the way, by the U.S.), and is still a most progressive force in that area.

So, one either condemns them all, or a better way, in my opinion, is to advocate separation of religion and governance, because whether anyone likes it or not, religion - and hence political side of it - is going to play an important for centuries, if not longer, to come.

Now, just to show you a bit of the type of people that comment on this site, I introduce to you vildemouse.

Before he/she realized that I am a practicing Muslim, he/she commented once that I am "one of the most under-rated Iran experts." (I make no claim that I am such, but that this is what he/she said.)

But, as soon as he/she realized that fact, she began labeling me and attacking me. In other words, it no longer mattered whether I know things or not, but that I am Muslim and a practicing one at that. Since he/she cannot really make an intelligent comment on what I say to counter what I say, he/she cheers other people on to do it for him/her!

That is the type of people we have in this unique site and, at least as I see it, they are the great majority. 

Mammad

"us" Muslims?

She is more concerned with the general image of us Muslims,

We are not all Muslims. Good number of "us" decided to give it up. It is wrong to put us all in the same boat. Iranian is not same as Muslim; why do people assume we all are?

This is what I saw in this girl

Its only a “may be” and cannot swear by any of it mind you.

Accent: Strong hints of Arabic, actually not very Persian at all

Going to Iran: I’d say not often and only for fun as a guest having a great time on each occasion. Hardly, if ever stopped in the street.  Has had no negative political experience happening to people she knows.

Political standpoint:  no depth, Immature, selfish due to good times judgment on all her visits.

Iranian ties: Curious, as I think she may be from a southern Iran area (Gulf)  or even Iraqi with Iranian ties. 

Connections with IR regime:  not necessarily at all, but not impossible

How much of a Muslim :   Remember in  many of today’s Arabic/Islamic countries women don’t have to wear any Hijab. but still defend Islam like its their nationality. Some Arab women say Islam is not restrictive and a whole lot of stuff. They claim to have red the Koran (its their language) and seem to “Taphseer” the women related bits as OK, although not all have necessarily read it all.

On occasions I have found that some Arabs want to be known as Iranians and not Arabs, like certain Iranians sometimes end up being Italians or something,  you know the score.

So based on the above, and ONLY if I am remotely right here, this girl and what she says should not increase our blood pressure too much.  Sadly none of us were there to enlighten her after, perhaps someone did.

I totally agree that the content of what she says on a TV programme can be damaging by suggesting that potentially the atrocities taking place in IRI and to many Iranian women may be disputable which is criminal.  She was laughed at by the audience so I am not too worried there.

The fact of the matter is that most foreigners see Iran the way their media projects and nothing can change that. So we need to ensure that the foreign press project the reality of what is really happening.

To lighten the air see this video:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GXABKqFTeE&feature...

Dear Anon. Obser. and Souri

AO: Yes, she is indirectly defending the situation in Iran as "not so bad", but is not really defending IRI, at least that's what I hear. She is more concerned with the general image of us Muslims, as some sort of monsterous female-beating beasts. For example, she is trying to say that certain restrictions, say Hejab, are present in other religions too, say Bible. Of course, she overlooks how far the sane-world has moved above and beyond the letter of Bible and closer to the ideal of loving and respecting the core human rights ... whereas we have gone right down to the deep crevice of history to sacrifice a generation at the alter of an assumed Allah.

Souri: No, I'm the same guy, who can be nice to nice, but nasty to nasty. Except, JJ has encouraged me to cage the rage. I quote him, "you can do it!" What can I say? The man is a good influence ;-)

AO ,

Good pal, ... SocioCulturaly diversified Iran is the reality of Iran. I,ve long ago revised the idealistic perception of the uniformal Iranian identity. I am delighted to hear & I agree with you that protecting or even propogating ones own Islamic heritage is a God given right. Here I go even one step further to say that Arabo Ommatized Iranians such as this lady or this gent Mo (who are the huge chunk of sociocultural rainbow) are entitled to gloat and recite their Arab-influenced-infested post-Sassanid heritage just as all other members of that rainbow. Yet we must draw the line the moment these compatriots abuse their freedom to glorify their Arabo-Qadessi based Iranian heritage & correlatively put down or degrade mine & yours Aryeh-kiaani Iranian heritage and cultural beliefs and expose their agenda. Here in all honesty I see a woman with phony heavy Arabic accent, probably an Arab(i doubt it) or a Seyedeh defending her faith and there is nothing wrong with it for me to confront her for except some subtle passive support for status quo which folks retorted.

*btw, talking about that, I might be writing a piece on Seyed-supremecy on my own blog and will ask for you to give links to it here. These enigmatic supremists centuries old iron grip on sociocultural current of  Iran is the most amazing rarely discussed item. From black Seyeds such as Seyed Moddarres, , Seyed Bahaollah, kashani, Al Ahmad,  Seyed Ruhollah Khomeini & khamenei , Navab Safavi to blue Seyeds; such as Seyed Zia,Jamalzadeh, Seyedeh Farah Diba and Seyed Reza Pahlavi and  all the way to green seyeds such as Seyed Behbahani(whose grt grandson Kamran was one of my best buddies in high school),Seyed hossein Nassr,Mousavi,kazem shariaatmadari,  Fattemi ,khattami or mohtashamipour, this most powerful freemasonery cult of elite Seyed supremists thru out history of Iran post-Sassanid have been the most elusive engine behind shaping the  Iranian sociocultural psyche thru art, literature & production of wealth. They have been & are the elite and cream de la crop of nobility & class supremecy in  Iran before & after revolution in which %70 of IRI most high ranking cadre is of their rank(kinda like Jewish grip on American scene post 20,s) & by far the most fierce defenders of Qadessi status quo culture and the most formidable detractors of kiaani legacy. Yet Ironicaly, having had the total grip on Iranian literary scene it is from their rank that we witness the geniuosity of purple Seyeds such as Seyed Kasrawi or Taghizadeh who broke rank with the sacred theme and were ultimately prosecuted by the Freemasonery. Again amazingly some of the most enlightned creative kiaani free thinkers in modern Iran are these minority purple Seyeds who truly are the  jewels of the Iranian crown.

For instance did you know that it was Ms Farah Diba(Pahlavi) who positioned most of the later leftist ommaties in positions of power in cultural framework of Pahlavi era such as placing Seyed hossein Nasr as head of bonyad falsafeh va farhang Iran or Shariati in university of Mashhad?(practicaly the Godmother of todays lefto-ommaties), Did you know that it was on the recomendation of Farah Diba that Ayatollah Khomeini was not prosecuted but exiled?. Did you know that it was Farah who chose the name Reza over Cyrus for Prince's first name and did the same with Iman va noor?. Did you know it was Farah who vetoed any & all initiatives to reform Farsi thru her appointees in farhangestan?. & yet she was supposed to be the queen of kiaan ;:)).  Do you ever wonder why there has been no attempt on her life unlike other high ranking imperial members?. its all interrelated on many levels .

Cheers pilgraml!!!

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Parthianshot91

You may be on to it. The "woman" definitely sounds and appears Arab. Is also totally ignorant of the Islamic social rules in Iran. I am not sure if she has even been to Iran. 

I mean anyone who knows about Iran knows the hijab requirement. No to mention the rules of being with a male. How does she not know these things? Just a few weeks under Islamic Republic rules will teach any woman those rules.

Bravo G.R.

Bravo G.R.

SHE'S NOT IRANIAN

I bet my left nut that she's lebanese judging by the heavy Arab accent when saying Arab words. I mean this is Australia, there are rarely any muslim Iranians over there, most are Bahais.

 --------------------------------------------------------------

"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

By The Way:

I was alluding to this poem when I mentioned the young lady's obesity !//iranian.com/main/blog/anahid-hojjati-89

Mammad, I'm scratching and shaking my head

So basically, according to you, political Islam doesn't exist, it's a Zionist conspiracy. What do you think a THEOCRACY is for*god*'s sake?

What do you think the Islamic Republic of Iran means?

But according to you it also doesn't really exist because the CDU exists in an electoral system of democratic Proportional Representation in a country of Protestant Reformation.... And other sets of nutters exist elsewhere.  Right!

In all honesty, do you really believe what you write? If I had a gob, I'd be gobsmacked!

" Thank god for botox; my facial expressions are wearing rather thin...."

Btw, why do so many of them in the videos on this website have exactly the same eyebrows? What's up with that?

VPK:

Read Shazde's post again. I don't think he has completely converted yet!

No Insults, Please!

You see, I say that because once again the readership of this site is honored to listen to Mammad's ideas on what is real and unreal about the status quo under IR. Mammad who has more than once belittled the readership of this site for not being mature enough to understand his ideas, Is back once again to engage the same undeserving and unappreciative readership in a debate that, as usual, is not lacking in sophistry of the kind employed by apologists of the regime. Of course, this happens, again, after he has dropped a few names to impress the unsuspecting AND, undeserving, readership of the site. As always, he tries to sound "scientific" in presenting his arguments. One such seemingly benign, but indeed hypocritical argument that he uses is the fact that "there are millions women like the young lady in Iran." I say seemingly benign because at its face value this statement is as simple as it is logical for defending the case he is about to prove which is not much of a case, anyway. But he is saying more than that. What he really says is that there are millions like this woman who willingly accept the yoke of IR and are even willing to go to jail, but never lose faith in their religion which happens to be the same religion that the regime has abused for three decades to impose its inhuman rule on tens of millions of other Iranians. Nothing is more pitiful than the case of a man who has spent his entire adult life in a democracy and feels so obligated as to defend someting that has proven so catastrophic for a nation!

LOL! Look who's talking

Hold of the insults

Everyone's a comedian now!  

Iran does not practice Sharia. Your "evidence" is laughable nonsense. Some Iranian laws, both before and after the revolution have been inspired by Islam, where applicable, but there has never been a total adherence to "Sharia". If you had a slightly open mind, we could go through the various debates and theories about the legal system, but I know you're not interested because it does not confirm your warped fantasies. What part of Sharia describes the position of Supreme leader and Presidential election structure, Majles? What part of Sharia gives women the right to vote and run for office?

You made a false statement (people being killed for their religion in Iran) and no amount of mast-maali, or racial slurs will make you anything other than a lying bigot.

Q

Hold of the insults and use your brain. By Sharia leaving Islam is punishable by DEATH. Being an atheist or Pagan is also punishable by death.

I am talking about 1400 years of Islamic murder. Keep making excuses for this sorry TAZI filth. Go ahead. The evidence I have is the Koran and numerous Islamic Fatwahs or you dismiss them?

VPK the ignorant exposed, once more

Please, for once listen to your ignorant self. You go on like an idiot, claiming all non-mulims have been killed as the only "evidence" you have a hypothetical scenario of "what happens to me?". Who cares what will happen to you? It's a fact you won't be executed, making you a liar on top of being a bigot.

Haven't you yourself repeated right-wing talking points about how many people have already converted away from islam? How many of those have been executed? ZERO. You're a self-centered bigot and your continuous use of a racist term, applied to a religion is not helping you on bit.

Souri

By ridiculing on person whose opinion is opposite to ours, but still represents a majority's opinion, we will get nowhere.

I must disagree with you here. Is that not all people who make change do? Before civil rights majority opinion was that blacks should be segregated. A few people opposed it and changed the majority opinion. Mohammad opposed majority opinion in Arabia and got his way. Reza Khan did the same against the Mollahs. 

Your approach sounds to me either taking the "safe" road. Or a not so hidden way to tell us to shut up and put up.  By the way: all castles are built in the sand. Including  Islam that many people including you bend over backwards to defend. I am sick of paying lip service to the pile of garbage out of Arabia.

VPK

Hitchens is a pro-war has been

W's "War on Terror" resulted in genocidal mass killing of many people, and suffering /displacement of millions more. Far more than fanatic muslims can hope to accomplish in their lifetimes. Only a truly disturbed man will discount all this suffering in his pursuit to combat "Islam".

However, if there is a slight bright side, it's that bigoted losers like Hitchens have been exposed for what they really are. Hitchens used to have some respect. Now he's only known as a drunken fool and his previous scholarship is disregarded by his Bush-like dogma and biggotry. It's not surprising to see the AIPAC propagandists and other assorted fossils at IC still have a cheerleading section reserved for him. 

Q

If I go to Iran and change my religion from Islam to something else what happens? If I go and say I am atheist what do they do to me?

There you go again with your broken record "racism" charge. Even Rush and Beck have better and more varied talking points than you do.

If opposing Islam is racism then fine I name me a racist.

I oppose the barbaric TAZI religion. Good enough for you?

Shazdeh Khan

This woman has no idea what she is talking about. Speaking a few Arabic words does not mean she knows Islam. Here "religion" is responsible for death and destruction since its sorry inception. Here is the deal: 

She either knows Islam or does not.

1) She knows it and is knowingly lying about it. That makes her a despicable liar.

2) She does not know. Which means that she is a big mouth full of hot air. 

Which one?

What the heck is her "true" faith? Has she read Koran and history. How about the rapist prophet: paymbareh bachebaz. How about Sharia ..

VPK, your knowledge of Iran is shockingly inadequate

Why I ask? Because the Islamist mordered non Muslims!

Please.... Which Iranian has been killed by Muslims in Iran simply because of his/her religion? There are millions of practicing non-Muslims (Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians). IRI has more problems with Sunni, Bahai and Sufi Muslims than non muslims. Not even IRI has ever executed one person on count of religion. Get a grip on reality! Being blinded by hate -- as evident by your racism -- is no way to live through life. It's ignorance like this that has relegated you and others like to irrelevant clown status.

Vildemose Jan

Her pronounciations are Arabic...Maybe she is half Arab.

That woman is *all* Tazi in her heart.

Mammad Khan

Most, if not all, the well-known women that are in jail in Iran are practicing Muslims.

Because the non Muslims are DEAD. Murdered by the hands of people you promote. 

Islamist says: Most Iranians are Muslims. Why I ask? Because the Islamist mordered non Muslims! One day soon, Islam is gonna pay for its actions.

Dear Souri, I do hope that one day you get the time and energy

To correct me and others like me on Tudeh party. BTW, what I know of Tudeh party is partly based on my readings well past the revolution (I was only 8 at time of revolution), and what my father, an 18 year old "hoghoogh" Student and ardent Tudeh party member at the time of 1953 Coup told me. My fathers account could at least be based on his bitter  experience of events (got kicked out of university, became simple "karmand dolat", whilst others stayed on, becoming vazirs, etc, etc). So I look forward to your knowledgeable corrections. 

Apologies To Fred for hijacking and diverting his otherwise fine blog.

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

dear Mammad, agreed totally with your first post

and you said it in the best way:

1) We must say: IN MY OPINION this young lady is wrong

2) We must confront the ideas but not ridiculing and accusing their holders

3) There's no such thing as political Islam (or it should be generalized to all other kind of religions)

4) We have to work on advocating the separation of Religion and Governance.

By the Way Souri Khaanoum

Most, if not all, the well-known women that are in jail in Iran are practicing Muslims. In addition to Sotoudeh, whose profile is described in that piece, others, such as Bahareh Hedayat, Hengameh Shahidi, Dr. Roya Tavassoli, and Parvin Tajik who has been given a jail sentence for speaking out publicly against the detention of her brother, journalist Abdolreza Tajik (whose family are friend of my wife's), are all practicing Muslims.

So, those who use these brave women to attack Islam and Muslims should know that they are practicing Muslims. Sotoudeh, for example, has always emphasized that she is a nationalist-religious woman, of the Bazargan-Sahabi-Shariati type.

Mammad

Souri khaanoum

First of all, I disagree totally with the young woman. She does say things that are not true in Iran. Yes, in UK she can do lots of things and still introduce herself as a Muslim. But, in Iran where religion and governance are mixed, and the very interpretations of the religion is totally reactionary, what she says is totally incorrect and a disservice to a large part of Iranian women.

But, I do agree with you about two points:

(1) Unlike what some, especially in this Website, would like to pretend, there are millions of women like the young lady in Iran. 

(2) What she says, as wrong as it is, is her belief and there is nothing wrong with she expressing it. But, by the same token, we can also disagree and criticize it, not by labeling her and naming calling, but by bringing up facts. Right now, there are 4 independent female attorneys in jail whose sole "sin" has been defending political prisoners. The best known is Nasrin Sotoudeh:

//www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbure...

but there are others as well, and also woman activists, such as Bahareh Hedayat, Shiva Nazar Ahari, Hengameh Shahidi, etc.

Finally, the notion of "political Islam" is totally nonsense. In many Western European countries Christian Democratic Parties with roots in Christianity are in power. Right now they are in power in Germany, the most important European country.

In Latin America Liberation Theology - that is, leftist Catholic clerics - played the most important role in defeating dictatorship and fascism in most of the countries.

In the United States Evangelical Christians are not only a power within the Republican Party, but also exert a lot of influence and advance their agenda at the city and state levels, such as forcing teaching (what is there to teach, I ask) of "intelligent design" and "creation science" on the innocent kids, and opposing abortion and gays.

The State of Israel was created based on theology that says God "chose" the Jewish People to live in Palestine, and Netanyahu constantly says Israel must remain a Jewish state. God did not choose any of His children over anyone else, otherwise I deny He exists!

So, this notion of "political Islam" is a creature of Israel lobby and the neocons to demonize Islam and, of course, their minions repeat the same.

What should be advocated is separation of religion and GOVERNANCE. One cannot prevent formation of political groups and parties based on religion, not now, not in the future.

Mammad

We two are saying :enab and angoor ;-)

Roozbeh jon, I think we think the same thing but are saying it in two different ways.

1) You said:

"just because sections of Iranian society both inside and outside Iran
agree with this woman's comments does not mean we have to agree to them.
Quite the opposite. Our duty is to stand up and speak clearly and
directly against all the reactionary forces acting against Iran and it's
people"

I agree with this.

What I don't approve here is ridiculing and accusing these people. Confronting is good. We HAVE TO do it. But this is the WAY of confrontation that I disagree with. I say: We should confront them, not ignore them. By ridiculing those people, we actually are saying that : They don't really exist! They are fake!

And I say we must avoid doing this because it will not remove the objection. It will not destroy the opinion......and maybe in the contrary it will feed it more, by the  hater that we will cause to the holders of those opinion.

2) What you said about Toudeh and it's strategy is false. But unfortunately it is a common opinion among the people who deliberately or not, do the demagogy against the party Toudeh.

Many times I was encouraged to write a blog about the whole trend...but honestly the time and energy are lacking for now ;-)

Maybe one day...........

Thanks for response Souri

And for being level headed. Believe it or not I agree with almost  everything you say (one point of possible disagreement, I detail below) I at least by ridiculing her, was in fact ridiculing this utterly hypocritical ideology of the political islam, where the "human rights minister" defends stoning of a defenceless woman!

  //iranian.com/main/news/2010/11/19/iran-human-rights-official-draws-fire-defense-stoning

But your point well taken, I'll keep my comments less personal in future. 

Now to my  -possible- point of disagreement with you:  just because sections of Iranian society both inside and outside Iran agree with this woman's comments does not mean we have to agree to them. Quite the opposite. Our duty is to stand up and speak clearly and directly against all the reactionary forces acting against Iran and it's people. This woman included. In the end of the day no matter what, there ARE people in Iran who benefit from and support the islamist regime. That is fine, they will be brushed aside by Iranian masses. The point is to form a united front of all PROGRESSIVE FORCES to defeat the islamist regime. Not all sections of the society would belong to this united front. I believe the 1979 revolution ended in such disaster becasue the most reactionary forces within the society were included and ultimately took over the revolution. Just to be clear, a good example of building a castle on sand, is Tudeh Parties fatal mistake  (some say treason) of  support of islamist regime as "anti Imperialist" at the begining of the revolution. We need to learn from the past mistakes not to repeat them again

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

&&&

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&&&

Hi

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D:

Virgin G.