Freedom5

Anonymouse jan

I agree that this is not a major problem, And I agree with Q that it would be a bad idea to let people moderate their own blogs. There are people here already who have been on the site long enough to qualify for moderation rights per your terms, that delete their blogs as soon as the start to dislike the exchanges. Unfortunately it would take a team of experts to detemine every individual's mental / emotional stability to ensure the right people get the privilege!

I think what is being done is the best available solution given eveything. Once people cross the already very generous line they get kicked out. I just wish there was a better way to prevent them from returning under another ID. 

LOL@ "But they want to use it and abuse it, like little kids breaking their own toys to see what's inside!"

Q jaan websites that allow it aren't promoting "dictatorship"

In most blogesphere were you publish your own blogs you have moderation over it.  I thought Huffington Post was the same, now if you send an article to be published like here in i.com then yes you can recuse yourself from moderation.

JJ can also allow moderation once a member becomes a member for a year or publishes 5 or 6 blogs or some criteria.  Sure the blogs may make less comments but so what. The blogger can decide how much s/he wants to allow it.  I think generally speaking people won't be deleting comments en masse.  No one would go to their blogs after a while.

In any event that is not a major problem.  Nothing here is a major problem.  All this stuff about this place being bad and biased and stress factory all bull crap!  Just don't use it.  But they want to use it and abuse it, like little kids breaking their own toys to see what's inside!

Everything is sacred.

Anonymouse, I don't agree with the solution

We've had disucssions like this before, but I fail to see why making everybody a dictator over their own blog is going to solve anything.

Look at it this way. These guys (JJ) have been dealing with this crap for 15 years at least. Opening up the site to self-published comments was a positive step because it removed him from censoring anybody who wanted to bitch about this or that.

But if you allow everybody to censor their own blogs, that means people could launch personal attacks and the victim wouldn't be able to respond directly and you'll have a lot of people who basically agree with each other commenting on the same blogs.

It may make it less "ugly" I give you that. But I don't think it will make it better. This is like a lot of blogs or group-blog sites out there (for example Huffington Post), people contribute but they don't get to choose their own criticism.

Nour-i-Azal: leaving your last comment really doesn't do justice to your comedic genius. Please make it a blog.

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To delete or not delete, to ban or not to ban.That's A question!

I've had many criticism of JJ and this website and some of them still outstanding.  But I believe there has been many changes for the better and that is all we can really ask for.   One for example going to all registered forum.  Hopefully, next we'll have control/moderation over our own blogs.

It used to be that JJ would post at least one anti-Islam thing per month, sometimes per week.  He doesn't do that anymore.  He posted this video of bi Wafa Sulta and at the time I wrote a blog about it which I deleted later when it became a pissing contest.  He then criticized me why I deleted it and later he understood that is the only right bloggers have.  If he allows moderation over one's own blog we wouldn't delete our own blogs.

Anyway, in that blog I argued if a person posts that video and blog and discuss it (which many did and JJ could do the same as his own blog) that'd be ok.  But when JJ publishes that as a single item, then that means this website endorses such views regardless of whether he believes it or not.  And that is offensive to many.

We all live in secular countries and are used to free speech so it's not a big deal and as long as we keep it our own and talk about it it is ok.  If it is bad like those Bahai bashing blogs, people will eventually don't visit it or visit it to just say s/he is an idiot and leave it at that.  Same with blogs such as bi wafa sultan.

Here in this discussion we're not talking about people not being able to post anti-islam or anti-bahai blogs, we're talking about how crazy can a person become before his/her comments are deleted or s/he is totally banned.

So in this regard, when you post an anti-Islam or anti-Bahai blog, your bottom is already stinking and when that is not enough for you, you want to do more, agitate more and when people ignore you or show you bad face, you become more agitated and more demanding. 

Finally you become total nut job and bring in freedom of speech and i.com not being democractic and JJ being hezbollah and so on and so forth.  After a while you become so crazy that you go and post on each and every blog who you hate and how you hate it.  Basically asking to be deleted and banned! Right?  So at that time there should be no complaining.

Now who wants to be banned?  Step forward and let is be known!  Khalas! 

Everything issacred.

Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

This site is not a free forum for unfettered debate and there is a heavy bias operative here with certain things allowed and certain things not allowed for discussion. There is a dominant clique here who fawns and drools like sycophants over the editor and his every policy and action, which in turn is set by the various financial interests which perpetuate this place. The tone and atmosphere is thoroughly mollycuddled, censored and controlled. In other words, it is a business with its own set of priorities, corporate interests and agendas, and one which follows very much North American corporate-management models. No questions are ever asked over the selective, lopsided implementation of policy or that the dominant clique led by its Supreme Editor JJ will stoop to just about every and any tactic in the book (some of which are about to land this site in hot legal water) with those they label/libel or otherwise don't like. In some ways, you are dealing with a situation not unlike highschool with popular or unpopular crowds.

My mercurial take on the situation is that there is also an IRI angle to things here because nothing could discredit the opposition and prolong the existence of the Islamic republic's life better than a site such as this, especially the dominant clique who represent the worst cultural and political excesses of the Iranian diaspora and would turn off most of the folks back home to any potential or actual cooperation/wide coalition. Morever, nothing better than a site such as this could function as a surveillance front for the regime. But, then again, JJ and the interests behind this site are far too opportunistic to be answerable to only one exclusive master, and that is where the whole hezbollahi theory falls apart.

That said, everything that is wrong with the Iranian diaspora (esp. in North America) is fully on display and active in this place. And the question as to why the Islamic Republic has survived as long as it has is fully answered, for me anyway, by spending some amount of time here gauging things. I look at my own presence here, and the dozens of times I have been banned from it, as field-work for a long-term writing project.

BTW, as an aside, the ultimate responsibility for the fall of the Shah, in my book, falls squarely on the doorstep of the Anglo-American big media/corporate/financial estate(s), and no one else -- which are probably the same people who have some interest in this site as well.

[Crossposted to USENET]

Sag Koochooloo

I am not sure realise the nuance here. JJ has NOT deleted this blog precisely because it is an attack on him as the editor of this site, even though the content of the blog is completely baseless and slanderous. 

The only reason Freedom5 account has been blocked is because he has invaded the privacy of and attacked private individuals, i.e. JJ's ex-wife and his daughter.

If you start with the argument that for some people some public figures are as sacred as family, where are you going to draw the line? I am sure there are people in who hold Khamenei sacred, there are people who hold Khomeini sacred, heck there might be even people who hold Hitler sacred. A public figure, by being a public figure, opens him/herself to criticism and ridicule and in some cases unfortunately slander. Some decide to take the issue up in court, others decide to start a website and defend themselves and others just shrug it off.

A private individual, however, has a right to privacy!

I do not agree

By allowing such persons to come back again and again after being blocked, provoking people to defend misinformation time and time again, and now some being threatened with legal action for defending. Let me tell you in trying to defend others being picked on here in the most vicious way I have been called and abuser and threatened with being blocked. There is something not quite right here. This should have been nipped in the bud.

This is not just one blog, it is continuous on a daily basis. I think something in this process has gone awry. There is a line to be drawn on some users. And now Mr Javid is at the receiving end of misinformation and knows what people have endured on a daily basis. But he is lucky enough to be able to delete blogs, but we cannot.

This is not an attack on Mr Javid, the point I am trying to make is that what is sacred to some is as sacred as family.

Re: Why are these acceptable to stay on this site?

Because they prove how stupid the person who posted them is. I have always supported the right of Bahai's to be free of persecution. However I don't see how that incredibly stupid photo is "persecuting" anyone.

Let people show their true colors by their own speech. Remember:

"Ta mard sokhan nagofteh bashad  Ayb o honarash nahofeteh bashad"

If you take them off then you are keeping people from seeing what an idiot posted them. Does anyone think that the Bahai faith will be harmed by that? I would think quite the opposite. It will gain sympathy.

Sag Koochooloo,

Please do not mix up the issues. A pesonal attack on a private individual is not the same thing as an attack on a public figure. This issue has been debated ad nauseam on this site. That is exactly where the line between the freedom of speech and slanderous speech lies.

Just one example, in case you missed them:

//iranian.com/main/blog/javaneh29/freedom-speech-i-com

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Since you asked

First of all, I have read plenty of personal attacks on this side and not seen anyone get banned because of it. So either what Freedom5 said is really vile or is ruffling some feather.

Now to my response. I have a pretty thick skin probably developed over time. So I would have let him have his say. Although I would definitely remove anything that violates privacy or photos of family members and so on. But I won't ban the person.

The best way to discredit  a person is through  their own words and acts. If someone is really posting truly vile comments then let people read them; condemn them and shame the offender into becoming more civil or simply ignore them. A person will quickly develop a reputation for being a wacko and be ignored. Look at Lyndon LaRouche. He is free to say whatever he wants; no one pays any attention. If he were banned, I assure you that he would have100s of times the following he has now. In fact we have people calling Obama; Bush; Clinton outrageous names. They are accused of things that are absolutely vile. But nothing happens because of freedom of speech. People have enough sense for most part to ignore the crazy and wacky accusations.

My point is: Trust people to distinguish between garbage and good information. I noticed lots of people engaging Freedom5. If he/she is so bad then why engage? Every time we ban someone, we give them importance. Do you think "Satanic Verse" would have had 1/100 of the sales it had were it not for the publicity it got by reaction of IRI? I read it, it was a terrible book and a total waste of my time. But I wouldn't have read it had it not been for the stink IRI made over it.

Maybe I have lived in the USA for too long. and internalized the culture. The  first ammendment has  become a part of my thinking.

However at the end this is a private organization; not subject to freedom of speech so do as you please. It is your site not mine.

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JJ,

This site brings light to many aspects of our(Iranians) life which is simply unacceptable for some people or organism.

I don't know for Freedom5, (s)he might simply be mentally disturbed. But I find the coincidence with the specific threats that we are facing a bit funny-eerie.

In my opinion the best solution is that each single one of us doesn't tolerate such attacks to yourself or any other members of this site from anybody: we should stand in front and you block such accounts.

.

I have the right to hang up the phone.. 

Offer your solution

Veiled Prophet of Khorasan, I would like to know what you think should be done if a blogger launches a malicious attack by re-posting something as ridiculous as the above and when he/she doesn't like my response goes ahead and posts photos of family members with more personal attacks?

I appreciate your concerns and I would too would be concerned by any site that bans anyone. I have spent most of my life as a journalist and started this site 14 years ago precisely to promote free speech. What Freedom5 has done goes well beyond that.

YAWN YAWN YAWN

Freedumb 5 - Get a life and if you got nothing interesting to say, just don't bother logging in, ok? We've heard it all before and we LOVE US SOME JJ.

Now back off or I will go all Samad on you. I just got my nails done.

Sara Sepidzadeh - All Things IRAN

American Dream!

"Banning Freedom5 is just the first step."

Wow! Are you proposing banning anyone who disagrees with you? I am sure the site will last real long. I am about to ban myself if this sort of ham handed behavior keeps going on.

I am so glad that you folks are not running this country. The distance between what you are saying  and banning newspapers is very small indeed. 

The only thing more disturbing  than your comment is the lack of any opposition. I seem to be the only voice. Oops maybe they're all already been banned!

......

 I am sooo sorry, JJ.....you should have deleted the blog.....so sorry.....don't worry, we are not fools either!

Take care!!!! God bless you!!

Delaram Banafsheh (Yolanda)

"Cactus in the Desert"

That is exactly what I thought had happened, JJ.

Unfortunately, we have a loooong way to go until we learn to appreciate how to use our freedom of expression. Har chizi janbeh mikhad. 

No sense of humor or decency

Yes, Freedom5 has been banned. After I posted my reply, he/she posted two blogs with personal photos, including my ex-wife, and derogatory comments. That's not acceptable by any measure.

He/she could have responded to my reply to his original blog -- a blog full of lies and false accusations which no one else would publish. Give me one website who's editor would allow this kind of abuse?

My reply was not angry and I did my best to have fun with it. He/she could have done the same and started a dialogue. Instead he/she went ahead and targeted those who are close to me.

I have no problem with people criticizing my past or present, even with malicious lies. What Freedom5 posted has been on the internet for years. Google my name and you'll see it on the first page. An average person would have immediately taken legal action to remove it. I see it more as a ridiculous rant from a spiteful person who can't get over the rejection of his/her writings. So I didn't bother.

But when Freedom5 copy/pasted it in a blog here on iranian.com, I took it as a chance to respond -- just for fun. Obviously he/she has no sense of humor or decency.

Anonymouse jaan

I agree with you completely! :)

Princess jaan no one needs to spend too much time here to know

All one has to do is if they're free to express themselves and if they can say just about anything they want.  The answer to that is yes.

They can also write blogs, comments and articles criticizing JJ and this website.  I and many others have done that too.  The problem for them is when even this is not enough.  They want to go crazy and attack others and use profanity and blame something over another and basically go all nuts and crazy!

The answer to that is one ordangi out of this website!  Other websites are no where near as tolerant as here and they kick you out much sooner. 

Everything is sacred.

VPK

judging from the material this person has posted so far, and knowing JJ (I have been coming to this site for almost 10 years) I am sure there is a very good reason why the account might not be working. Who knows?

Please hang around and observe for yourself how the site is run. JJ knows what freedom of speech means, that's why he has created this site. As others have suggested, please take your time to get to know JJ and this site before reacting. 

Take care now. 

Re: VPK I wouldn't worry too much...

You  mean register under a new name? I guess that is probably possible; email addresses are next to free. But I still don't like the idea of banning people. It is a bad idea and reinforces the idea of banning speech with is anathema to democracy and real journalism. Believe me; it will hurt the credibility of the site among many people. With me it already has.

As for worrying; they don't call me "Warrior" for nothing :-)

Marge Shahanshah has changed his name to Joey Buttafuco up there

Everything is sacred.

my favorite shah quote

"i am a believer. it hurts me when people say I don't understand Muslims." what a coward. this was after he was toasted with (virgin I'm sure) champagne by James Carter for providing an island of stability LOL. what a moron shah was. maybe he's up there now drinking with marilyn monroe and his virgins.

VPK I wouldn't worry too much...

if the individual can back any of the baseless accusations s/he will be back. We are not going anywhere. 

What is the point of...

getting stuck in the past? Why someone's past is so important when we can see his/her present. You'll be surprized if you see the past of the heroes you normally worship. Do something that counts. Live in present. [I am getting the feelings that I can make a good marketing person :O)]

Do it for once, $19.99 we add three more votes: Come on people I am trying! 

I want you, SK, TheMrs, Monda, Nazy, Nuri, Q, Anon123456789-> and the rest (appologize for not rememebering all, at least I tried)

Vote here:

//iranian.com/main/blog/midwesty/lets-cast-another-type-vote

Princess

"What is stopping this individual? Where is s/he?"

Good question. I just clicked on the name and got:

"error resource not found". I think the user may have got deleted.